D7100 vs D600 do you see what I see ?

Started May 4, 2013 | Discussions
d3xmeister
Senior MemberPosts: 1,569
Like?
D7100 vs D600 do you see what I see ?
May 4, 2013

I'm going to upgrade my camera this month. The D600 looked like the winner for me, but now that the D7100 came out, I'm starting to think about getting that instead.

I played with both at the store, and here are the things I like about the D7100

- Instant zoom to AF point. My old Olympus E-5 was doing this, and I missed this function so much. The D600 doesn't allow this.

- Better AF system. From my brief test: A bit faster, better at tracking, and much, much more area covered by AF points. So much better in actual use.

- D7100 more responsive, faster trough menus, changing options, etc.

- Video looked much better to my eyes on the D7100

- Camera costs half as much, and also the lenses.

On the other hand I noticed that with the 50mm f/1.8 G the D600 is sharper at every aperture, I'm guessing because the lens have to resolve more than twice the resolution on the D7100.

But reading reviews, like the ones from thecamerastore or users on forum, they say it is about 2 stop difference at ISO performance between the 2 cameras. 2 stops is a lot.

Made my own (I hope correct) calculation, and judging by the sensor area, an APSC sensor should have about 0.6 stops advantage over m4/3, and FF should have about 1.3 stops advantage over APSC, given the same sensor technology.

Then I downloaded many samples from preview, IR and others and started comparing. Long story short, to my eyes there is less than 1 stop difference between the D7100 and D600.

Even when doing blind tests, comparing for example ISO3200 on D7100 with ISO6400 on D600, I always picked up the ISO3200 file as the best. That mean there is less than a stop difference.

I also liked the colours on the D7100 better, but that's subjective.

I guess my question is, am I seeing this correctly ? Where is that 2 stops difference many are talking about ? I cannot see even 1 stop difference.

My decision will be base on that, for less than 1 stop performance loss, the D7100 seems like the better camera. For 2 stops better performance, I will seriously considering the twice expensive D600 even with its shortcomings.

Nikon D600 Nikon D7100 Olympus E-5
If you believe there are incorrect tags, please send us this post using our feedback form.
fotolopithecus
Senior MemberPosts: 1,699Gear list
Like?
Re: D7100 vs D600 do you see what I see ?
In reply to d3xmeister, May 4, 2013

There's about a stop, and a half noise advantage going to the D600, give or take.

 fotolopithecus's gear list:fotolopithecus's gear list
Nikon D610 Tamron SP AF 90mm F/2.8 Di Macro Nikon AF-S Nikkor 50mm f/1.8G
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
rockjano
Senior MemberPosts: 2,359Gear list
Like?
Re: D7100 vs D600 do you see what I see ?
In reply to fotolopithecus, May 4, 2013

Yes that is correct. And a very bit more DR as well. And the deep shadow noise is better with the D600.

But if you take all of that together I would only go to the D600 if you shoot in low life very often.

If you shoot concerts or in churches where you cannot use flash or other social events than an FF D600 is better, otherwise the D7100 seems to be the winner.

If you go for FF go for the D800 that is surely more camera than any of the other two.

rockjano

fotolopithecus wrote:

There's about a stop, and a half noise advantage going to the D600, give or take.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Paul Petersen
Senior MemberPosts: 1,172Gear list
Like?
Re: D7100 vs D600 do you see what I see ?
In reply to d3xmeister, May 4, 2013

Pretty much the same conclusion I have come to.

I just wish there was a really decent wide angle to deliver the resolution the sensor can register.

Maybe the rumored 16-85 f4 will fill that void.

Pete

-- hide signature --

A bad day of train chasing is better than a good day at work.
http://peterzpicts.smugmug.com/

 Paul Petersen's gear list:Paul Petersen's gear list
Nikon D70 Nikon D90 Sigma SD14 Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 35mm f/1.8G Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5G ED-IF +2 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
d3xmeister
Senior MemberPosts: 1,569
Like?
Re: D7100 vs D600 do you see what I see ?
In reply to fotolopithecus, May 4, 2013

I'll look for new samples, go to the store again, as I fail to see that 1,5 or 2 stops. I failt to see even 1 stop advantage. But i don't want to buy the D7100 and after that come to the conclusion that those guys were right :)) I am not living in a world where you can retrn a product

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Nexu1
Senior MemberPosts: 1,807
Like?
Re: D7100 vs D600 do you see what I see ?
In reply to Paul Petersen, May 4, 2013

Paul Petersen wrote:

Pretty much the same conclusion I have come to.

I just wish there was a really decent wide angle to deliver the resolution the sensor can register.

Maybe the rumored 16-85 f4 will fill that void.

Pete

-- hide signature --

A bad day of train chasing is better than a good day at work.
http://peterzpicts.smugmug.com/

Not a fan of Nikon's 12-24 or 10-24?

I've been debating on buying the 10-24 or even the sigma 10-20 (for price obviously).

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
scokill
Senior MemberPosts: 1,640Gear list
Like?
Re: D7100 vs D600 do you see what I see ?
In reply to d3xmeister, May 4, 2013

d3xmeister wrote:

I'll look for new samples, go to the store again, as I fail to see that 1,5 or 2 stops. I failt to see even 1 stop advantage. But i don't want to buy the D7100 and after that come to the conclusion that those guys were right :)) I am not living in a world where you can retrn a product

Real world it's 1.5 stops...which is a lot.

 scokill's gear list:scokill's gear list
Nikon D610 Nikon Df Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 16-85mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D +1 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
BlueBomberTurbo
Contributing MemberPosts: 704Gear list
Like?
Re: D7100 vs D600 do you see what I see ?
In reply to d3xmeister, May 4, 2013

d3xmeister wrote:

I'll look for new samples, go to the store again, as I fail to see that 1,5 or 2 stops. I failt to see even 1 stop advantage. But i don't want to buy the D7100 and after that come to the conclusion that those guys were right :)) I am not living in a world where you can retrn a product

All the studio tests and comparisons I've seen really only show about 1 stop.  I'm sure there are situations where it can vary, but the vast majority have been the usual 1 stop difference between FX and DX.

I (unfortunately) do a lot of low light shooting, and the D7100 wowed me compared to the D7000.  Even thought it can be said they share the same level of noise at 100%, the D7100's grain is finer and more consistent, and the color retention is significantly better.  Add that to 50% extra pixels, and resizing makes the noise even more insignificant.  Get some good noise reduction in there, and the only thing you have to worry about is sensor heating at the highest ISOs.

A test shot from the beginning, ISO 5600 + a soft 50mm 1.8D wide open + a little noise reduction:

 BlueBomberTurbo's gear list:BlueBomberTurbo's gear list
Sony Alpha NEX-6 Nikon D7100 Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 35mm f/1.8G Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 17-55mm f/2.8G ED-IF Nikon AF-Nikkor 80-200mm f/2.8D ED +8 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
AdamT
Forum ProPosts: 56,674Gear list
Like?
The main thing I noticed
In reply to d3xmeister, May 4, 2013

The main thing I noticed was how much sharper the RAWs from the 7100 are at lower ISOs - the D600 is quite a bit softer - softer than the D5200 and D800 in fact leading me to think the D600 has quite a heavy AA filter like the D3X had .

IMO they need to make a D600S with weak or no AA filter, the proper AF system, 100% Chimp on OK button, OLED VF info strip, whitepixel LCD and the other stuff the D7100 got the D600 missed out on  .. while they`re at it, all the cams with the movie button on the top plate need a firmware update to allow it to do ISO or FV-Lock or whatever when NOT in Movie mode, where it`s just lying idle at the moment

-- hide signature --

** Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist **

 AdamT's gear list:AdamT's gear list
Sigma DP1 Canon PowerShot G1 X Nikon Coolpix P330 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GM1
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
BillD7000
Contributing MemberPosts: 546
Like?
Re: D7100 vs D600 do you see what I see ?
In reply to Nexu1, May 4, 2013

If High ISO is a real necessity, then the D600 would have an advantage.

But if better AF and DX reach matter, then the D7100 will hold its own, and then some... for a lot less $$.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
d3xmeister
Senior MemberPosts: 1,569
Like?
Re: D7100 vs D600 do you see what I see ?
In reply to BlueBomberTurbo, May 4, 2013

@BlueBomberTurbo good point. I noticed that too when comparing to my D5100. Due to the higher resolution, lack of AA a better color retention the D7100 is significantly better.

@AdamT. I'm not sure I agree. Tested the 50mm prime on both the D7100 and the D600 and it was sharper at any setting, any ISO on the D600. I found that surprising but maybe it's the fact that the lens must resolve more than twice resolution on The D7100, because at same 24MP the sensor is more than twice smaller Than FF.

I found other samples online and indeed in some of them the D600 seems to be 1.5 stops better, but in some other samples I can't see even a full stop. And yes, I did compare files with same exposure and lens.

Now I really don't know what to do.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
scokill
Senior MemberPosts: 1,640Gear list
Like?
Re: D7100 vs D600 do you see what I see ?
In reply to d3xmeister, May 4, 2013

I think the d7000 looks better at ISO 3200 but D7100 looks better above that... weird.

 scokill's gear list:scokill's gear list
Nikon D610 Nikon Df Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 16-85mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D +1 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
d3xmeister
Senior MemberPosts: 1,569
Like?
Re: D7100 vs D600 do you see what I see ?
In reply to scokill, May 4, 2013

scokill wrote:

I think the d7000 looks better at ISO 3200 but D7100 looks better above that... weird.

After proper NR, the D7100 is clearly better. If  you disable any PP, or apply same NR procedures, the D7000 does look a little better but only grain wise, not color or clean blacks.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Stacey_K
Veteran MemberPosts: 5,399Gear list
Like?
Re: D7100 vs D600 do you see what I see ?
In reply to d3xmeister, May 5, 2013

Mainly what I see is the D600 seems better at shooting wide and the D7XXX is better when you need the reach.

-- hide signature --

Stacey

 Stacey_K's gear list:Stacey_K's gear list
Nikon D200 Nikon D700 Nikon D7000 Nikon D800 Nikon AF Nikkor 105mm f/2D DC +14 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
krikman
Regular MemberPosts: 293Gear list
Like?
Re: D7100 vs D600 do you see what I see ?
In reply to d3xmeister, May 11, 2013

d3xmeister wrote:

I'll look for new samples, go to the store again, as I fail to see that 1,5 or 2 stops. I failt to see even 1 stop advantage. But i don't want to buy the D7100 and after that come to the conclusion that those guys were right :)) I am not living in a world where you can retrn a product

So you live in Russia.

About hi-ISO advantage:
don't bother at all. While correctly exposed all new cameras makes perfectly clear photos upto ISO12800. On another side in bad lighting only D4 makes somewhat good picture at ISO1600+. D800 and D600 sucks just as D700, D7000 and D7100 in these bad conditions (i.e. luminiscent lighting with 133 or 142 class tubes and 50-60Hz inductive balast).

Number of keeper photos belongs to camera responce and your willingness to use it. i.e. when you happy with your camera your photos looks good, othervise no technologies makes you happy. All new Nikon cameras in D7100...D4 range including D600 and D800 are good enough to not bother about IQ.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
mosswings
Veteran MemberPosts: 5,948Gear list
Like?
Re: D7100 vs D600 do you see what I see ?
In reply to d3xmeister, May 11, 2013

d3xmeister wrote:

I'll look for new samples, go to the store again, as I fail to see that 1,5 or 2 stops. I failt to see even 1 stop advantage. But i don't want to buy the D7100 and after that come to the conclusion that those guys were right :)) I am not living in a world where you can retrn a product

I think that if you were to talk to a FF shooter whose done some comparing they would tell you it's easier to get a clean, sharp shot from a FF camera given equal resolution, and that the color depth and retention would be higher.  If you are truly limited in your ability to drop shutter speeds in lower light, or conversely need extremely high shutterspeeds to capture motion, then the FF sensor does offer advantages; you can push it another stop before noise becomes really offensive.  But your findings of about 2/3 to 1 stop mirror a lot of other tester's results.  There are some variations in this advantage with ISO - somewhere around ISO 1600-3200. However, at lower ISOs, the differences have become rather subtle.

If you're looking strictly at noise levels, then you're not getting the whole picture.  On the other hand, if you can't see a difference for your purposes, then you probably shouldn't worry that the D7100 will suddenly become inadequate. On the other hand, many of the advantages of FF become evident only after use, not by reviewing image files. But again, you may never need to question the competency of a DX sensored camera, which is very high indeed.

 mosswings's gear list:mosswings's gear list
Olympus XZ-1 Nikon D90 Nikon D7100 Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 18-105mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6G VR +1 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
john Clinch
Senior MemberPosts: 2,813
Like?
Re: D7100 vs D600 do you see what I see ?
In reply to d3xmeister, May 11, 2013

d3xmeister wrote:

I'm going to upgrade my camera this month. The D600 looked like the winner for me, but now that the D7100 came out, I'm starting to think about getting that instead.

I played with both at the store, and here are the things I like about the D7100

- Instant zoom to AF point. My old Olympus E-5 was doing this, and I missed this function so much. The D600 doesn't allow this.

- Better AF system. From my brief test: A bit faster, better at tracking, and much, much more area covered by AF points. So much better in actual use.

- D7100 more responsive, faster trough menus, changing options, etc.

- Video looked much better to my eyes on the D7100

- Camera costs half as much, and also the lenses.

On the other hand I noticed that with the 50mm f/1.8 G the D600 is sharper at every aperture, I'm guessing because the lens have to resolve more than twice the resolution on the D7100.

But reading reviews, like the ones from thecamerastore or users on forum, they say it is about 2 stop difference at ISO performance between the 2 cameras. 2 stops is a lot.

Made my own (I hope correct) calculation, and judging by the sensor area, an APSC sensor should have about 0.6 stops advantage over m4/3, and FF should have about 1.3 stops advantage over APSC, given the same sensor technology.

Then I downloaded many samples from preview, IR and others and started comparing. Long story short, to my eyes there is less than 1 stop difference between the D7100 and D600.

Even when doing blind tests, comparing for example ISO3200 on D7100 with ISO6400 on D600, I always picked up the ISO3200 file as the best. That mean there is less than a stop difference.

I also liked the colours on the D7100 better, but that's subjective.

I guess my question is, am I seeing this correctly ? Where is that 2 stops difference many are talking about ? I cannot see even 1 stop difference.

My decision will be base on that, for less than 1 stop performance loss, the D7100 seems like the better camera. For 2 stops better performance, I will seriously considering the twice expensive D600 even with its shortcomings.

I think your completely missing the point.

A quick look on DXO mark shows 1.5 stops advantage to the D600.

Which for some would be enough to go FX

But that's not really the question in. I think we have to start to say the days of pixel peeping are over. My D70 only really failed to make the grade a few times in 6 years. The D90 is better and has failed once on DR. An extreme shot it had the sun in the frame on a long exposure. At the D7100 and D600 level you may never reach the limit.

I think the difference is this

D7100 AF differences that you noted. Higher pixel density and less depth of field. So better for wildlife type stuff

D600. The slam dunk here is the ability to get shallow depth of field. You can see that in any size print. That's what drives FX and its what would get me to buy a DX camera

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
sworth
Contributing MemberPosts: 703
Like?
Re: D7100 vs D600 do you see what I see ?
In reply to d3xmeister, May 11, 2013

I realize this won't be a popular opinion among the "more is better" crowd, but personally, I think that high ISO capability on current cameras is getting to the point where an extra stop or two doesn't help. Current cameras already shoot in such dim light that even better performance will just get into the area where even higher ISO doesn't matter, because the lighting is so poor, it doesn't make for good pictures. Lighting is everything in photography. At least if you're worried about making good looking images.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Manfred Bachmann
Contributing MemberPosts: 804Gear list
Like?
Re: D7100 vs D600 do you see what I see ?
In reply to d3xmeister, May 11, 2013

The D7100 is stellar also for people shooting in studio, the details are amazing, and skintones are very good!! I would go with the 7100 if 1600iso is enough for your shooting needs.

manfred
Pbase supporter, NPS Austria
http://www.pbase.com/manfred_b/candid

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
GraemeF
Junior MemberPosts: 27Gear list
Like?
Re: D7100 vs D600 do you see what I see ?
In reply to john Clinch, May 11, 2013

Having owned the D7100 for a couple of weeks, I can wholeheartedly say I love it. The AF blows the doors off my D7000, image quality is excellent and the new viewfinder is fantastic.

There are a couple of quirks - the Function and Preview buttons are reversed and the ISO/zoom- and QUAL/zoom+ buttons are reversed. The former is a bit of a nuisance - I can't get a finger on it easily in portrait orientation (I use the MB-D15). The latter is actually very logical - if like me you own or have owned a D7000, the ISO button is still second from bottom like the D7000, which means I can easily adjust the ISO in manual mode without taking my eye from the viewfinder.

As far as the FX has shallower depth of field argument, I really don't have an issue with DX. I honestly can't say I've found that I have too much depth of field, although mainly using fast primes probably helps somewhat.

Here are a couple of studio shots from the D7100 with the 50mm f1.4 D and the 85mm f1.8 G:

 GraemeF's gear list:GraemeF's gear list
Nikon D7000 Nikon D7100 Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D Tamron SP AF 180mm F/3.5 Di LD (IF) Macro Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC HSM +3 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads