D600 oil design problem - latest serial # - is it fixed ?

Started May 2, 2013 | Discussions
Nikonfan99
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Re: No, it's not 'fixed' STEVE....
In reply to 1w12q312qw1, May 10, 2013

Good luck with getting an answer. I had never heard of steve and all of a sudden he showed up in the FX forum. He said he had been shooting with his d7000 and was contemplating a d600 and got one. After that he became the self appointed naysayer. Saying he has "no d600 issues".  When challenged he responded by saying he had not used the d600 that much and he shoots landscapes and (forgive me if I dont have the exact quote) usually shoots a lower number of shots. This was after I challenged how this issue will not always show up for a while 2,000+ shutter count. He had no real response to that. Just kept saying 0 dust. which is as true as we never landed on the moon and followed that up with no proof. Just kept saying he has no issues and never helped with any real long term solution and even after nikons own admittance, the "i have no issues" games and "just send it in" continued. Here we are with people still having the issue and he has some grand wisdom and insider information to which he cant prove or share yet he can make blanket statements like 0 dealers lie about this issue or that he knows things we dont. He was quick to throw aound how long he has been a member and how many posts he has 18,000+ to which I asked what that has anything to do with? guess what? no response. So please enlighten us simple souls with this amazing insider information that thou has and make it good. Keep in mind both my 2012 serial number  and week or two old serial number 307 have the exact same issue on the left side of images. Not that I am returning the cameras or selling them. I am wet cleaning them but lets not pretend the situation is something it is not. Shutter replacements have not been a 100% fix and his GAP he refers too was first noted by lenserentals and as a possible source. Well my new camera has a Gap too? I guess nikon just forgot to remove it on my week old high serial number body from a brand new sequential batch. Lets start with that name at nikon first.

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1w12q312qw1
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Re: No, it's not 'fixed' STEVE....
In reply to Nikonfan99, May 10, 2013

Nikonfan99 wrote:

Good luck with getting an answer. I had never heard of steve and all of a sudden he showed up in the FX forum. He said he had been shooting with his d7000 and was contemplating a d600 and got one. After that he became the self appointed naysayer. Saying he has "no d600 issues".  When challenged he responded by saying he had not used the d600 that much and he shoots landscapes and (forgive me if I dont have the exact quote) usually shoots a lower number of shots. This was after I challenged how this issue will not always show up for a while 2,000+ shutter count. He had no real response to that. Just kept saying 0 dust. which is as true as we never landed on the moon and followed that up with no proof. Just kept saying he has no issues and never helped with any real long term solution and even after nikons own admittance, the "i have no issues" games and "just send it in" continued. Here we are with people still having the issue and he has some grand wisdom and insider information to which he cant prove or share yet he can make blanket statements like 0 dealers lie about this issue or that he knows things we dont. He was quick to throw aound how long he has been a member and how many posts he has 18,000+ to which I asked what that has anything to do with? guess what? no response. So please enlighten us simple souls with this amazing insider information that thou has and make it good. Keep in mind both my 2012 serial number  and week or two old serial number 307 have the exact same issue on the left side of images. Not that I am returning the cameras or selling them. I am wet cleaning them but lets not pretend the situation is something it is not. Shutter replacements have not been a 100% fix and his GAP he refers too was first noted by lenserentals and as a possible source. Well my new camera has a Gap too? I guess nikon just forgot to remove it on my week old high serial number body from a brand new sequential batch. Lets start with that name at nikon first.

Yes, seems like the quintessential "blowhard", just spewing garbage and littering the place. This forum should get a medal for putting up with his 18,000 posts.

I know nothing about the internal workings of a D-SLR and if I "speculate" about the cause of the D600 dust/oil issue, it's just that - speculation. As far as B&H goes, I find their telephone salespeople to be very chatty for the most part, quite often giving out information that should not and probably is not available to them. OK, someone may know or guess that 200 D600 bodies have been returned, but does he also know that B&H probably has sold maybe 20,000 units? Maybe Henry P. can clarify this.

I appreciate the first-hand brutally honest reports of the D600's problems and Nikon's utter failure to recall all affected bodies. They should post an advisory to customers to take the litmus test-shot as soon as they receive their camera and if there is an abundance of dust in the upper-left corner of the image to immediately send it to them. They should have also given these customers a "no-questions-asked" refund option, IMHO.

Stan

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opusone
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Day two...first two spots on sensor...
In reply to Steve Bingham, May 10, 2013

Day Two after about a dozen frames the first two spots -small ones but clearly visible - appeared on the sensor. This time the blower did not get them off.

Time to order that Copper Hill cleaning kit.

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chipmaster
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Re: Day two...first two spots on sensor...
In reply to opusone, May 10, 2013

opusone wrote:

Day Two after about a dozen frames the first two spots -small ones but clearly visible - appeared on the sensor. This time the blower did not get them off.

Time to order that Copper Hill cleaning kit.

I just got a new fancy car, damm it is leaking a bit of oil in the garage.  I'll just buy some extra towels and dry it up.  The reaility is that a few spots of oil in my garage is less a factor on the impact of my fancy new expensive car then oils spots now appearing on my pictures.  Why consumers accept this is beyond me!

Now that I've gotten an eye for the stuff, I can look and its starting to show up in my second D600 body on almost any sky backaround candid shot at F8-F11, simply not acceptible that the fix is ME cleaning versus the manufacture taking responsibility and fixing it.

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looks like mine in december
In reply to Prairie Pal, May 10, 2013

And the only thing they did was clean the sensor. Glad I left this behind me. Alas, the waiting starts all over again.

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Steve Bingham
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Re: Day two...first two spots on sensor...
In reply to opusone, May 11, 2013

opusone wrote:

Day Two after about a dozen frames the first two spots -small ones but clearly visible - appeared on the sensor. This time the blower did not get them off.

Time to order that Copper Hill cleaning kit.

Bart,

Two small spots would most likely be dust. Lubricant or debris generally have a different apparence. After many lens changes in Canyonland I finally picked up two small dust spects (in sky with Nik Color Efix Pro) which I had not seen before (f16 - I was trying for max DOF to include the foreground). My Rocket blower (large model) got rid of them. Please keep me posted as you certainly know what you are doing).

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ne beginner
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Could the lens be introducing the dust?
In reply to ScottRH, May 11, 2013

Just a thought ... I have not paid all that much attention to the D600 oil\dust issue (D800 user), until I recently bought a refurbed D600.  Mine so far is dust and oil free.  Odd in that it has a serial number from last December (303XXXX), but only 6 clicks when arrived last week.  Maybe they changed the shutter? I've been shooting it quit a bit over the last week, and so far it remains spotless inside.

I've been thinking of getting a 24-85 VR, if I can get one on the cheap, as a snap shot walk around lens to go with it.  From what I can gather, these lenses (and the 24-120) suck in air when zooming, and are not sealed very much. There are comments out there about dust and other debris getting inside the 24-85.

Since so many of these lenses were sold and bundled with D600's, I'm wondering if that could be part of what many are seeing?  This may not be so much of an issue with the D800 since it may have better sealing around the shutter.  So perhaps even when the shutter is closed, stuff sucked in by the lens may be able to get inside the D600 shutter box.

I apologize if this has been discussed before.  I have been using only primes on my D600 so far.

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Steve Bingham
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Re: Day two...first two spots on sensor...
In reply to opusone, May 11, 2013

opusone wrote:

Day Two after about a dozen frames the first two spots -small ones but clearly visible - appeared on the sensor. This time the blower did not get them off.

Time to order that Copper Hill cleaning kit.

Bart, here is what I did - you might want to try this also. Although most of my shooting is in the f8 range, sometimes I shoot at smaller apertures for greater DOF. So I looked through my old D700 files (FX) to find some raw files. I easily found about a dozen that I could inspect that were at f16 and one at f18. At 100% the dust spots were not very visible but they were there. So then I did what I frequently do, I used a Nik Color Efex Pro filter called the  Tonal Contrast filter at default values . . . and saw 13 dust specs stand out in the dark blue sky. I had not noticed them before. When I print large, however, I always check for these sort of things - and clone out or use the Spot Healing Brush - takes mere seconds. Of course I always took precautions with the D700 and used my Rocket Blower (large version) frequently.

Is my D600 more dust prone than my old D700? I don't think so. I just think we are looking harder and expecting to find! You might want to check some of your old f16 files?

Anyway, looking forward to some of your spectacular landscapes.

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Steve Bingham
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Re: Could the lens be introducing the dust?
In reply to ne beginner, May 11, 2013

Interesting thought! None of my lenses are this type, but you are right. Nikon's less expensive lens can suck in air (moisture and dust). However, every single DSLR I (or my wife) have owned had dust that need to be cleaned off!!!!!! (Fuji S2 - 2 copies, Kodak DSLR/n, D50, D80, D2x, D200, D300, D700, D800, and D600) It's the nature of the beast. Go find some of your old raw files and take a look (I did).

There were an unusual number of D600 cameras that DID have a problem. Recent versions and refurbished versions appear to be quite normal.

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Kenny..
In reply to Prairie Pal, May 11, 2013

Could you check the mirror frame in the down position on the bottom part for scratches? Also, if you do a mirror up could you check the rear side of the mirror frame?

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rondhamalam
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Design Flaw Will Never Be Fixed
In reply to ScottRH, May 11, 2013

It's a Design Flaw, very hard to fix

Wait for D500 or D650

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ne beginner
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Sure, it is the nature of the beast ...
In reply to Steve Bingham, May 11, 2013

... Sensors have to be cleaned off every now and then, more so depending how you use the gear.

From what I have read, some of these arrive new dirty.  That's a QC issue.  Once cleaned, one could reasonably expect to clean their sensor on a D600 at about the same frequency as prior DSLR's.

There is also the awareness of the dust]\oil issue, which may cause more people to be shooting the sky af f22 with their new D600's than would have otherwise had the issue not been so well known.  Same thing happened on the D800 with the left bank AF defect:  lots of people saw ghosts in the closet.

Not saying there are no issues, this is well documented and indisputable.  Just that even non-effected units are I'm sure being labeled defective because people are looking at things they never looked at before.

So apart from defective units and some poor QC, the D600 may also need more frequent cleaning simply as a result of how the shutter box is sealed, which I would imagine could be less well sealed than a D700, D800, or even D300.  Perhaps more in line with a typical consumer grade body, which many have commented that the D600 is.

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sandy b
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Re: No, it's not 'fixed' STEVE....
In reply to 1w12q312qw1, May 15, 2013

Steve is a valuable member of this forum, and has been for years, unlike you coming in and calling people names.

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