Why m4/3rds is declining in the US.

Started Apr 29, 2013 | Discussions
Richard
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Bandwagon
In reply to EinsteinsGhost, Apr 30, 2013

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

A major part of it is marketing. Awareness is a major road-block, especially when it comes to "tradition". Most people don't think "interchangeable lens cameras". The think "DSLR", and when they do that, they also think either Canon or Nikon. And that is where a hefty chunk of sales is. The masses are generally averse to change, and thrive on following the norm. They tend to not evaluate pros and cons, they buy what they find "comfort" in. Or as you put it...

Richard wrote:

For the average use the Canon is the better deal. Sure a niche market person may pay extra for the oly but not the masses. This is not to say the masses are the smartest consumers but I know the canon works well enough for the average user.

Everyone is on the DSLR bandwagon so no one looks any farther than that. That may be true.

But I remember, when I started looking for a new digital camera (30d and D100 days) I reviewed DP review and Steves Digicams and really studied what I wanted. I remember also considering I think it was an Oly that had a prism mirror instead of a DSLR mirror. So I may be a minority but I did research.

Perhaps you are right that the masses just buy what everybody else has and what they see is Nikon and Canon.

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jonikon
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Re: Why m4/3rds is declining in the US.
In reply to EinsteinsGhost, Apr 30, 2013

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

jonikon wrote:

Lack of phase detection type auto focusing (which can track moving subjects), is the biggest shortcoming with m4/3 cameras of today that still use the antiquated CDAF focusing system found in pocket cameras. I just visited Disneyland and saw a lot of DSLRs (mostly Nikon), but heard at least one owner of a m4/3 camera curse it for not being able to focus their kid on a ride. Luckily I had a Nikon V1 with on-sensor PDAFthat works great for for focusing on fast  moving subjects, so no worries for me! 

- Jon

Chances are, that person would have cursed the camera regardless. Chances are, I could have taken the same image with manual focus as I do most of the time (when using my NEX).

Why make more work for yourself and use a crippled camera with manual focus when there are more capable AF systems like the Nikon 1 cameras?

Manual focus is old school and not acceptable for fast action photography. I used MF back in the day because I had to, but I don't use MF anymore unless I absolutely have to focus through something, (like a fence).

I don't drive manual transmission cars anymore either, as the heavy traffic of today has made a stick shift a real nuisance, and the new automatic transmissions are very smooth and efficient nowadays. I like  the new auto-magic!  

- Jon

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Adrian Van
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Re: A slight disorder...
In reply to Richard, Apr 30, 2013

4. later discover mirrorless cameras in market like Olympus or Panasonic or Sony Nex as a lighter system after a year or two of using DSLR

5. finally read more into the hype and buy one

But these people usually are looking for better image quality, what I think is after they find out the APS-c and mirrorless are similar they may turn to FF especially if they are geek and have money.

6. many sell off DSLR (for those that just need it for personal use, vacation, hobby, travel photos)

These people are not the masses, they are possible niche people, they will either want the FF because of specs, or they will want the size and go m43

as mirrorless is good enough and close quality to DSLR (aps-c) now (in all but fast action capture) and can offer spectacular results with the right technique in capture and great lens combos.

Lots of people are selling off their DSLRs even bought in the last few years, once they discovered mirrorless and do not need both for their semi-pro enthusiast needs.

I don't think this is true in the US, thus the decline of m43 and increase in DSLR according to some of the statistics that have posted.

However the other percentage (how much is that anyway?) will keep both DSLR (for work or play Aps-C or FF) and also buy a mirrorless (mostly for play or travel, however there are lots of skilled photographers who can use mirrorless for very serious photo image results once they use the great lenses now offered. And Video works great with mirrorless such as GH series by some pros who use it. Many photographers who fit "pro category" as source of income will have both systems.

I think this is a minority of the population, but I think there is a lot of people on this site that have both.

I likely am not the average semi-pro or consumer and those visiting this site are not the masses either, but instead are the dedicated enthusiasts and professionals alike overall visiting dpreview. So likely many of us here have both systems I agree.

I just read a few posts here lately of D7000 users or Canon users leaving systems for lighter mirrorless as good enough systems. Then again, how many do this (sell their dslr) vs. just adding a m43 for light travel and keeping both? Average M43 with a kit lens costs about the same as one medium priced aps-c lens these days. Not really a big investment to start, until you decide to add more lenses.

I actually have: Panasonic LX5 (use a lot for social parties, spur of the moment use), Olympus EPL1 (for on vacation, around town personal photos, for lite weight and better image quality than LX5 in low light - eventually will buy EPL5, but still like the quality of EPL1 in good light) and for my wedding work I use FX Nikon D700 as main camera and D300s as backup. The D300s gets the least amount of use overall but I need as a backup just in case (I do use it occasionally). FF offers best quality in all lighting conditions for what I do, hands down and easiest post work.

So you are right, mirrorless and aps-c offer about the same image quality in sensor right now (the real difference is in the body features, AF speed, and what lenses you have purchased).

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bosjohn21
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Re: Why m4/3rds is declining in the US.
In reply to Richard, Apr 30, 2013

Richard wrote:

bosjohn21 wrote:

Richard wrote:

While it may be a tad off the wall there is a certain panache to the big pro looking dslr, plus it is for many a new commer comming from his old film days a more familiar platforme.

I would say older people who had a film SLR would certainly use this rational, it is something familiar.

I am lucky in that I use a double frame camera and a  micro 4/3 camera. I find my full frame does deliver more dr and more detail but for almost all my photographic situations this is not an issue. what is more the issue is my ff and the 21mm lens is gloriously wide with almost zero distortion and very sharp. My 4/3 camera prime lens is also a stellar performer. I like both but then I am a photo fluzzy.

I think you may be a minority although I have seen a number of photographers have both DSLR and m43.

as to why micro 4/3 is in decline in sales here in the usa on would also need to know what kinds of margin the importers and manufacturers are giving them. My guess is that for Canon and Nikon the margin is very good for the retailer as canon can sell very close to cost and make money and hopfully hook a new customer into thier lens system.

I don't know the statistics but I think the masses are going to have 1 lens maybe 2. I think many get along with just the kit lens. Then they might buy a 18-100 to cover everything and then put the kit lens in the closet. I have no statistics but when I have gone group shooting, I see a lot of people in this position.

in addition to the ecconomics above I suspect the real culprit here is the big mobile phones are now replacing the need for a second camera for dslr guys looking for  a second smaller camera
John aka bosjohn21

I know this is my position, the camera phone does take all my snapshots but I would like a better P&S after reading the DPR Roundup: Enthusiast Zoom Compact Cameras  I would like a Sony RX100 but for $600. Several of the other cameras are good to but I have read the LX7 drops to $300 so I might swing that at Christmas, a little shallower DOF and ISO 1600 in a pinch is all I want.

I think point and shoots will shrivvle even more because of the cell phone cams especially now that zooms and bigger sensors are finding their way into the phones. Now is some genius figures out how to do an eye level electronic finder in the phone its game over for point and shoot and quite possibly micro four thirds.

In addetion to all the other reasons floated there is the view finder.  All dslrs have an eyelevel finder. Most of the micro four third cameras and mirrorless apsc cameras are marketed without an eye level view finder which are offered as accessories. There are a few exceptions surely but the sonys. the panasonic gf series etc. are so supplied.  When at the store a new buyer who has done some research get a chance to look through the eye level finder of a dslr and comfortably hold the dslr at eye level will be wowed with the view. With the pricing point of entry leve dslrs being on par with four thirds or even less its a tough battle for a camera with seemingly fewer features to compete.

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Jorginho
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can you point us to a Canon DSLR with better DR?
In reply to AndyMulhearn, Apr 30, 2013

Which Canon APS-c does better in DR than the 7D? I am quite sure and hope that the new 7DII makes a huge jump in DR. I don't use a Canon anymore, but hope they get the best there is for them.

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Christoph Stephan
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Re: cailean gallimore, nex crushes canon dynamic range
In reply to Sk8trguy, Apr 30, 2013

Sk8trguy wrote:

cailean gallimore  appears to be a huge sony fan.  everyone know the sony nex has crushed the canon rebels for years.  even now the cheapest olympus m43 camera is better.

hahahahahahah!

oh, no front and read focusing issues that plague the rebels either.

It also user interface, and here, the Sony chocolate boxes and and the viewfinder-less Olympus (not the OM-D!) suck!

What use is supposed better dynamic range, if I cannot make a decent composition in bright sunlight, or, even worse, cannot take any photos at all, because the thirsty finder has sucked all batteries empty?! What if I have to search in menues to make the most essential adjustments?

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AndyMulhearn
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Re: can you point us to a Canon DSLR with better DR?
In reply to Jorginho, Apr 30, 2013

Jorginho wrote:

Which Canon APS-c does better in DR than the 7D? I am quite sure and hope that the new 7DII makes a huge jump in DR. I don't use a Canon anymore, but hope they get the best there is for them.

I suspect none of the APS-C Canons will be better than the 7D a) because it's their top APS-C camera and b) because it shares sensor with everything from the 550D upwards. Personally, I'd be astonished if they launch a 7D mk II without a new sensor as Nikon have a lot of higher pixel count sensors out and we all know it's the megapixel count that counts...

Having said that, I'm reaching the point where I need better AF than the 600D provides so I'll be getting a 7D mk I if there's no mk II or if the mk II has the same sensor just an upgraded body. Otherwise the mk II.

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Sk8trguy
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Re: cailean gallimore, nex crushes canon dynamic range
In reply to Christoph Stephan, Apr 30, 2013

Christoph Stephan wrote:

Sk8trguy wrote:

cailean gallimore  appears to be a huge sony fan.  everyone know the sony nex has crushed the canon rebels for years.  even now the cheapest olympus m43 camera is better.

hahahahahahah!

oh, no front and read focusing issues that plague the rebels either.

It also user interface, and here, the Sony chocolate boxes and and the viewfinder-less Olympus (not the OM-D!) suck!

What use is supposed better dynamic range, if I cannot make a decent composition in bright sunlight,

dpreview: Excellent 2.4 million-dot OLED EVF

What if I have to search in menues to make the most essential adjustments?

dpreview: The use of three dials to control the main exposure parameters, with the rear dial essentially dedicated to ISO and the right dial to exposure compensation, makes it extremely fluid to shoot with.

You don't seem very familiar with the nex cameras that out perform canon rebels.

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EinsteinsGhost
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Re: Why m4/3rds is declining in the US.
In reply to jonikon, Apr 30, 2013

jonikon wrote:

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

jonikon wrote:

Lack of phase detection type auto focusing (which can track moving subjects), is the biggest shortcoming with m4/3 cameras of today that still use the antiquated CDAF focusing system found in pocket cameras. I just visited Disneyland and saw a lot of DSLRs (mostly Nikon), but heard at least one owner of a m4/3 camera curse it for not being able to focus their kid on a ride. Luckily I had a Nikon V1 with on-sensor PDAFthat works great for for focusing on fast  moving subjects, so no worries for me! 

- Jon

Chances are, that person would have cursed the camera regardless. Chances are, I could have taken the same image with manual focus as I do most of the time (when using my NEX).

Why make more work for yourself and use a crippled camera with manual focus when there are more capable AF systems like the Nikon 1 cameras?

Because photography to me is more than just taking photographs, I enjoy manual photography. This doesn't mean I can't appreciate fast AF using my NEX... running towards the camera...

Or, running away from the camera, with manual focus...

Manual focus is old school and not acceptable for fast action photography. I used MF back in the day because I had to, but I don't use MF anymore unless I absolutely have to focus through something, (like a fence).

And you may see a bit of the fence in the above image taken with MF. Not that t was the fence that forced me to use MF, some cameras simply make it more enjoyable.

I don't drive manual transmission cars anymore either, as the heavy traffic of today has made a stick shift a real nuisance, and the new automatic transmissions are very smooth and efficient nowadays. I like  the new auto-magic!  

- Jon

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Biggs23
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Re: Why m4/3rds is declining in the US.
In reply to EinsteinsGhost, Apr 30, 2013

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

jonikon wrote:

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

jonikon wrote:

Lack of phase detection type auto focusing (which can track moving subjects), is the biggest shortcoming with m4/3 cameras of today that still use the antiquated CDAF focusing system found in pocket cameras. I just visited Disneyland and saw a lot of DSLRs (mostly Nikon), but heard at least one owner of a m4/3 camera curse it for not being able to focus their kid on a ride. Luckily I had a Nikon V1 with on-sensor PDAFthat works great for for focusing on fast  moving subjects, so no worries for me! 

- Jon

Chances are, that person would have cursed the camera regardless. Chances are, I could have taken the same image with manual focus as I do most of the time (when using my NEX).

Why make more work for yourself and use a crippled camera with manual focus when there are more capable AF systems like the Nikon 1 cameras?

Because photography to me is more than just taking photographs, I enjoy manual photography. This doesn't mean I can't appreciate fast AF using my NEX... running towards the camera...

Or, running away from the camera, with manual focus...

Manual focus is old school and not acceptable for fast action photography. I used MF back in the day because I had to, but I don't use MF anymore unless I absolutely have to focus

I think you may have linked to the wrong pictures. Neither image features running of any kind.

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Cailean Gallimore
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Re: cailean gallimore, nex crushes canon dynamic range
In reply to Sk8trguy, Apr 30, 2013

Sk8trguy wrote:

cailean gallimore  appears to be a huge sony fan.  everyone know the sony nex has crushed the canon rebels for years.  even now the cheapest olympus m43 camera is better.

oh, no front and read focusing issues that plague the rebels either.

Actually, I'm no fan of any brand. If I come across a camera I like, I'll buy it regardless of brand.

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Jorginho
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Re: can you point us to a Canon DSLR with better DR?
In reply to AndyMulhearn, Apr 30, 2013

AndyMulhearn wrote:

Jorginho wrote:

Which Canon APS-c does better in DR than the 7D? I am quite sure and hope that the new 7DII makes a huge jump in DR. I don't use a Canon anymore, but hope they get the best there is for them.

I suspect none of the APS-C Canons will be better than the 7D a) because it's their top APS-C camera and b) because it shares sensor with everything from the 550D upwards. Personally, I'd be astonished if they launch a 7D mk II without a new sensor as Nikon have a lot of higher pixel count sensors out and we all know it's the megapixel count that counts...

Having said that, I'm reaching the point where I need better AF than the 600D provides so I'll be getting a 7D mk I if there's no mk II or if the mk II has the same sensor just an upgraded body. Otherwise the mk II.

Why should I care about the fact than that Canon does not deliver sensors that are better than the best m43 sensors? What is your point? Also note that the OMD and its sensor are not new either. The OMD was introduced on 8 february 2012. 1 september 2009.  So the difference is 2,5 years. Not 4.

Moreover: the older m43 sensors like the Gh2 (2010) and GH1 (2009) already scored on par with the Canon sensors.

Other than that it is actually funny to watch how a few people over here think that anything they write about the imminent demise of DSLRs, mirrorless or m43s has any validity.

Tomorrow it is yet another thread about the system that they do NOT have bot seem to be quite obsessed about...

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oklaphotog
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Re: Availability.
In reply to Richard, Apr 30, 2013

Richard wrote:

This is a possibility, availability. I will look around at the 2 camera shops we have here in town and see if either sell them. If not then I would have to agree, lack of exposer and availability locally could be a reason. But then I would ask are they readily avail in other markets like Europe in stores on shelves.

Not many do. About the only camera stores that carry them is the very biggest shops in the biggest cities. I'd have to drive 4.5 hours to Dallas to see one in a store. Part of this is because it's hard for a small store to invest in a ton of inventory on a model that doesn't sell well. Keep in mind the store has 30 days (net 30) to pay for the cameras they buy from the manufacturer without getting charged interest. These stores often run on such thin margins that they need to turn around the inventory they order in 30 days and can't afford to sit on it. The really big stores with much more volume are a little different and have enough cushion to sit on the inventory a bit. A camera store only makes 10% on one of these cameras. But most likely the purchaser will use a CC/Debit card, and the processing fee is 2-3% which drops the profit to 7-8%. If they don't pay for it in 30 days and are charged 4% or so on their account from the manufacturer, then they've made 3% on the sale. When you look ay a camera that the store pays $900 for and sells it at $1000, bucks.... making $30 bucks on the camera isn't much. Then factor in the overhead of employee salaries, mortgage/lease payment for the building, utilities, insurance and more... It gets ugly. Think about how many sales you have to make with a gain of $30 to pay the bills. This is why accessories in brick and mortar stores cost so much more than online, because that is the only place they can make any money.

Europe has always been a different type of market than the US. All of the small camera companies have traditionally sold much more product there than the US. I don't know if it's because Europeans prefer some of the other brands more so than the US etc... But you'll see that the smaller companies do tend to spend more on advertising in Europe vs. the US. This is probably because they have limited advertising funds and have to spend it where they already have more established market. For instance Minolta always sold a ton more Dynax's in Europe compared to Maxxum's in the US. They were a very strong 3rd place in Europe but a rather low 3rd place in the US.

In the US they are going to have to re-enter the box stores who can purchase and sell these cameras in order to get any gain in market share. The small camera companies can advertise all they want, but if you still can't find one to look at it won't sell much. The smaller camera stores aren't going to invest in selling the m4/3 system unless they know they can sell them since they are already fighting to keep their door open. If they can get penetration into the box stores, then the masses will see them even with minimal advertising. Once they can get on the shelves in these stores then any advertising they do will help spur more sales once there is an established ability for people to demo the cameras. Once that happens, then the smaller photo stores will follow suit. Until then it will be a hard and long road for makers like Oly. This is exactly why Panasonic said they are trying to regain shelf space in big stores. Keep in mind the majority of the market are not geeks like us on DPR or other websites. We are the exception not the rule. They only know what they see in the store. They also want to have ability to layaway or finance in store for these items. They may see that nifty looking camera on the shelf and play with it every time they go to that big store for a month or two before they decide to pull the trigger on the purchase. If Oly and Panasonic could get a commitment from the likes of Walmart, Target, and Best Buy to sell their gear, and not just the lowest end model, it would do wonders for them here in the US. They also need to have reps at these stores on Saturdays showing off and demoing these products, no different than Canon, Nikon and Sony does. They don't even have to employ these folks as there are stand alone marketing companies that do this on a contract basis. For instance Sony uses a company called Marketstar for their field reps in the US. When you go into Best Buy and you see the Sony guy there in his Sony shirt, he doesn't work directly for Sony. Marketstar does this for HP and many other big companies too. Even many of the people at Sony's booth at CES are actually Marketstar employees, generally their top reps.

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AndyMulhearn
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Re: can you point us to a Canon DSLR with better DR?
In reply to Jorginho, Apr 30, 2013

Jorginho wrote:

AndyMulhearn wrote:

Jorginho wrote:

Which Canon APS-c does better in DR than the 7D? I am quite sure and hope that the new 7DII makes a huge jump in DR. I don't use a Canon anymore, but hope they get the best there is for them.

I suspect none of the APS-C Canons will be better than the 7D a) because it's their top APS-C camera and b) because it shares sensor with everything from the 550D upwards. Personally, I'd be astonished if they launch a 7D mk II without a new sensor as Nikon have a lot of higher pixel count sensors out and we all know it's the megapixel count that counts...

Having said that, I'm reaching the point where I need better AF than the 600D provides so I'll be getting a 7D mk I if there's no mk II or if the mk II has the same sensor just an upgraded body. Otherwise the mk II.

Why should I care about the fact than that Canon does not deliver sensors that are better than the best m43 sensors? What is your point? Also note that the OMD and its sensor are not new either. The OMD was introduced on 8 february 2012. 1 september 2009.  So the difference is 2,5 years. Not 4.

You asked a question, I answered it. If you don't like the answer, that's not my problem.

Moreover: the older m43 sensors like the Gh2 (2010) and GH1 (2009) already scored on par with the Canon sensors.

Other than that it is actually funny to watch how a few people over here think that anything they write about the imminent demise of DSLRs, mirrorless or m43s has any validity.

Tomorrow it is yet another thread about the system that they do NOT have bot seem to be quite obsessed about...

Careful, I'm starting to think your some kind of obsessive who feels the need to project his own issues onto others.

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Jorginho
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Re: can you point us to a Canon DSLR with better DR?
In reply to AndyMulhearn, Apr 30, 2013

AndyMulhearn wrote:

Jorginho wrote:

AndyMulhearn wrote:

Jorginho wrote:

Which Canon APS-c does better in DR than the 7D? I am quite sure and hope that the new 7DII makes a huge jump in DR. I don't use a Canon anymore, but hope they get the best there is for them.

I suspect none of the APS-C Canons will be better than the 7D a) because it's their top APS-C camera and b) because it shares sensor with everything from the 550D upwards. Personally, I'd be astonished if they launch a 7D mk II without a new sensor as Nikon have a lot of higher pixel count sensors out and we all know it's the megapixel count that counts...

Having said that, I'm reaching the point where I need better AF than the 600D provides so I'll be getting a 7D mk I if there's no mk II or if the mk II has the same sensor just an upgraded body. Otherwise the mk II.

Why should I care about the fact than that Canon does not deliver sensors that are better than the best m43 sensors? What is your point? Also note that the OMD and its sensor are not new either. The OMD was introduced on 8 february 2012. 1 september 2009.  So the difference is 2,5 years. Not 4.

You asked a question, I answered it. If you don't like the answer, that's not my problem.

I am not liking or disliking it, I disagree with you and your reasoning and the data used.

Moreover: the older m43 sensors like the Gh2 (2010) and GH1 (2009) already scored on par with the Canon sensors.

Other than that it is actually funny to watch how a few people over here think that anything they write about the imminent demise of DSLRs, mirrorless or m43s has any validity.

Tomorrow it is yet another thread about the system that they do NOT have bot seem to be quite obsessed about...

Careful, I'm starting to think your some kind of obsessive who feels the need to project his own issues onto others.

You may think watever you like, its a free world. Seems you are quick to attribute obsessive features to people. First Mjankor, now me. Any more obsessive persons in yoru book who answer to questions or set some errors straight?

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Jorginho
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Re: cailean gallimore, nex crushes canon dynamic range
In reply to Christoph Stephan, Apr 30, 2013

Christoph Stephan wrote:

Sk8trguy wrote:

cailean gallimore  appears to be a huge sony fan.  everyone know the sony nex has crushed the canon rebels for years.  even now the cheapest olympus m43 camera is better.

hahahahahahah!

oh, no front and read focusing issues that plague the rebels either.

It also user interface, and here, the Sony chocolate boxes and and the viewfinder-less Olympus (not the OM-D!) suck!

What use is supposed better dynamic range, if I cannot make a decent composition in bright sunlight, or, even worse, cannot take any photos at all, because the thirsty finder has sucked all batteries empty?! What if I have to search in menues to make the most essential adjustments?

NEX6 and 7 have an EVF I believe. I have an EVF for my EPl5 too btw. Don't know about the NEX, but the battery for the EPL5 does not suck my batteries dry just like that and a second battery weighs so little you can take another one with you.

Other than that it is true that EPL5, OMD, GH3, EPM2 have better noise, better DR etc especially at base ISO. Once you move up to the ISO ladder there is little difference though.

Canon has a new fab for its sensors so I am excited to see how well the new sensors built there will perform! It is time for some competition fro Sony I think.

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AndyGM
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Re: Availability.
In reply to Richard, Apr 30, 2013

Richard wrote:

This is a possibility, availability. I will look around at the 2 camera shops we have here in town and see if either sell them. If not then I would have to agree, lack of exposer and availability locally could be a reason. But then I would ask are they readily avail in other markets like Europe in stores on shelves.

No problems with availability here in the UK. I live in a town, pop 300,000, and I can walk 20 minutes from my house to the best department store right in the centre, and play around with an E-M5, E-PL5, G5 and GF5. And they stock the 20mm lens too (but that is the only additional m43 lens they stock).

You'll notice I said Department Store and not Camera Store. We don't really have Camera Stores in the UK any more, a combination of chronic mismanagement and having Amazon be able to undercut them because Amazon hasn't paid a penny of corporation tax in the UK for the last 3 years, meant that the 2 major chains of Cameras Stores folded last year.

The staff at one Jessops Store put a large "Thank You for Shopping at Amazon" sign in the window on the day the store was shut for good.

We have just one "big box" chain left too. They don't tend to have a very good selection of any ILCs, Mirrorless or DSLR. Just row upon row of P&S (and the real entry level, POS, less that £99 ones usually).

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AndyMulhearn
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Re: can you point us to a Canon DSLR with better DR?
In reply to Jorginho, Apr 30, 2013

Jorginho wrote:

AndyMulhearn wrote:

Jorginho wrote:

AndyMulhearn wrote:

Jorginho wrote:

Which Canon APS-c does better in DR than the 7D? I am quite sure and hope that the new 7DII makes a huge jump in DR. I don't use a Canon anymore, but hope they get the best there is for them.

I suspect none of the APS-C Canons will be better than the 7D a) because it's their top APS-C camera and b) because it shares sensor with everything from the 550D upwards. Personally, I'd be astonished if they launch a 7D mk II without a new sensor as Nikon have a lot of higher pixel count sensors out and we all know it's the megapixel count that counts...

Having said that, I'm reaching the point where I need better AF than the 600D provides so I'll be getting a 7D mk I if there's no mk II or if the mk II has the same sensor just an upgraded body. Otherwise the mk II.

Why should I care about the fact than that Canon does not deliver sensors that are better than the best m43 sensors? What is your point? Also note that the OMD and its sensor are not new either. The OMD was introduced on 8 february 2012. 1 september 2009.  So the difference is 2,5 years. Not 4.

You asked a question, I answered it. If you don't like the answer, that's not my problem.

I am not liking or disliking it, I disagree with you and your reasoning and the data used.

1. "Why should I care" is not an expression of disagreement it's a expression of indifference.

2. I presented no data. I presented two opinions

Moreover: the older m43 sensors like the Gh2 (2010) and GH1 (2009) already scored on par with the Canon sensors.

Other than that it is actually funny to watch how a few people over here think that anything they write about the imminent demise of DSLRs, mirrorless or m43s has any validity.

Tomorrow it is yet another thread about the system that they do NOT have bot seem to be quite obsessed about...

Careful, I'm starting to think your some kind of obsessive who feels the need to project his own issues onto others.

You may think watever you like, its a free world. Seems you are quick to attribute obsessive features to people. First Mjankor, now me. Any more obsessive persons in yoru book who answer to questions or set some errors straight?

Of course you are sweetheart.

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EinsteinsGhost
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Re: Why m4/3rds is declining in the US.
In reply to Biggs23, Apr 30, 2013

Biggs23 wrote:

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

jonikon wrote:

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

jonikon wrote:

Lack of phase detection type auto focusing (which can track moving subjects), is the biggest shortcoming with m4/3 cameras of today that still use the antiquated CDAF focusing system found in pocket cameras. I just visited Disneyland and saw a lot of DSLRs (mostly Nikon), but heard at least one owner of a m4/3 camera curse it for not being able to focus their kid on a ride. Luckily I had a Nikon V1 with on-sensor PDAFthat works great for for focusing on fast  moving subjects, so no worries for me! 

- Jon

Chances are, that person would have cursed the camera regardless. Chances are, I could have taken the same image with manual focus as I do most of the time (when using my NEX).

Why make more work for yourself and use a crippled camera with manual focus when there are more capable AF systems like the Nikon 1 cameras?

Because photography to me is more than just taking photographs, I enjoy manual photography. This doesn't mean I can't appreciate fast AF using my NEX... running towards the camera...

Or, running away from the camera, with manual focus...

Manual focus is old school and not acceptable for fast action photography. I used MF back in the day because I had to, but I don't use MF anymore unless I absolutely have to focus

I think you may have linked to the wrong pictures. Neither image features running of any kind.

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Any opinions I express are my own and do not represent DPReview.

Yeah, they must be "posing" for a picture to your eyes or getting the kite to fly isn't exactly running to some people. Perhaps you should share your idea of running towards/away, so I can present something similar?

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justmeMN
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NEX
In reply to Sk8trguy, Apr 30, 2013

You don't seem very familiar with the nex cameras that out perform canon rebels.

I'm familiar with complaints that NEX cameras have poorly designed menu systems, mediocre lenses, overly aggressive noise reduction...

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