No more SLT!

Started Apr 29, 2013 | Discussions
Rashkae
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Re: Sony money maker
In reply to Timmbits, Apr 29, 2013

Timmbits wrote:

TrojMacReady wrote:

The camera designers recently commented on this and stated that the large elements are part of the cause.

If this were true, there would be no fast-focusing FF cameras, because those elements are even larger.  It's quite a lame excuse for poor engineering.  You shouldn't believe everything a company says just to put a positive marketing spin on a flawed product.

Actually it depends entirely on the lens. In the CZ 24-70 for example, the focus group is quite small and light, which is why it focuses so quickly.

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TrojMacReady
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In reply to Timmbits, Apr 29, 2013

Timmbits wrote:

TrojMacReady wrote:

The camera designers recently commented on this and stated that the large elements are part of the cause.

If this were true, there would be no fast-focusing FF cameras, because those elements are even larger.  It's quite a lame excuse for poor engineering.  You shouldn't believe everything a company says just to put a positive marketing spin on a flawed product.

No, I was specifically talking about the elements forming the focusing groups. Large aperture lenses for DSLR's and most mirrorless cameras usually have a special focusing group that is made smaller to help focus speeds.

In fact, the elements are 10 times heavier than those found in the Sony SEL 35mm F1.8, 24mm F2 and 50mm F1.8.

And I can tell from experience  with the inner guts of  my large aperture DSLR lenses, that they have the focusing groups in the rear, using smaller elements with less mass and more moving space.

To keep the lens as small as possible without compromising optical quality, the RX1 also has one motor drive to operate 2 focus groups and the aperture blades.

And the fact that DSLR's are faster is obviously helped by PDAF to begin with.

Don't assume you know better without facing the specific design challenges.

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Benarm
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Great news! It was a matter of time!
In reply to andreac75, Apr 29, 2013

SLT is a transitional technology towards a "mirrorless" camera. Sony must have mastered the on-sensor AF if they're so confident that they don't need to use SLT anymore. Meanwhile Canikon is still stuck with a mirror flip.

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Sonyshine
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Re: Great news! It was a matter of time!
In reply to Benarm, Apr 29, 2013

Benarm wrote:

SLT is a transitional technology towards a "mirrorless" camera. Sony must have mastered the on-sensor AF if they're so confident that they don't need to use SLT anymore. Meanwhile Canikon is still stuck with a mirror flip.

I would not imagine Canikon will just plod on with their old tech cameras. I would think they too have a few surprises in store - as always interesting times ahead!

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TrojMacReady
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Marketing put to the test.
In reply to Timmbits, Apr 29, 2013

Timmbits wrote:

Tom2572 wrote:

A FF NEX does make more sense than a mirrorless SLR-sized camera, if only because people still don't expect NEXs to focus as fast as SLR/Ts. Sony won't release a full size mirrorless until on-sensor PDAF is as fast as separate-sensor PDAF, and we are still a few generations from that occurring.

I hate to be a party pooper Tom, but Samsung is offering very very very fast autofocus in the NX300 today, with on-sensor PDAF combined with contrast-detection.  If my memory serves me well, 105 phase-detect and 257 contrast detect points on the sensor.

They claim it's the fastest focusing camera on the market, practical users  and testers tend  to disagree .

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cplunk
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Re: Photography-centric
In reply to Blunderact, Apr 29, 2013

Blunderact wrote:

JerryCurtis wrote:

The newest gear is always great... let's face it, toys are fun However, I think if we were all more photography-centric and less gear-centric, we'd all take much better pictures

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I absolutely agree.

While some traditionalists might agree with you, and some professionals starve if this isn't true...

My wife clearly understands that my hobby is more about playing with the camera than it is taking photographs.

And even my father, who first taught me about photography as a pre-teen, using his 35mm nikor SLR, told me when visiting historical site in Europe that if I really wanted great pictures of those site I should just but a book.  The only reason to use a camera there is to photograph your kids visiting the place (and then he ordered me where to pose).

But he still remained interested in the technology of cameras and it's history and evolution. And was always researching them, even if he had little interest in buying a new one to take pictures of. After all, he kept his 35mm manual focus Nikor with a 50mm f1.8a and Soligor 35-140mm zoom until he finally upgraded to Dimage 7. But he'd tell me all about the advancements of all the cameras coming on the market and how they worked. (and continually tell me DSLRs are a bit silly keeping the mirror inside a digital camera).

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tqlla
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Re: Great news! It was a matter of time!
In reply to Benarm, Apr 29, 2013

Benarm wrote:

SLT is a transitional technology towards a "mirrorless" camera. Sony must have mastered the on-sensor AF if they're so confident that they don't need to use SLT anymore. Meanwhile Canikon is still stuck with a mirror flip.

Unless Sony Sells the tech to Nikon... and makes us wait.

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stan_pustylnik
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Re: No more SLT!
In reply to andreac75, Apr 29, 2013

andreac75 wrote:

It is one year that I'm asking an srl without any mirror like nex!!!!

I do not belive SAR about this rumor, at all. Does it make sense to me to straight out entire SLT line from A58, A65, A77, A99 to suddenly not do SLTs anymore? What a BS... Especially after knowing level of success by these cameras. Hahaha.

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havoc315
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Re: No more SLT!
In reply to andreac75, Apr 29, 2013

The real issue, is the future of the A-mount for those heavily invested in Sony/Minolta lenses.

The rumors suggest that Sony will make an A-mount mirrorless camera.  And let's face it, the SLT technology was really 2/3rds down the road to mirrorless.  Other than a reflected phase detection system, SLTs are the equivalent of mirrorless cameras.

So if Sony masters placing phase detection in a main sensor (look to see how well it does in the Sony Nex7n to be released soon), then a Sony shooter may do quite well with a Sony mirrorless A-mount.

But in the long run, will Sony keep making 2 different mounts of mirrorless cameras?  Certainly, for new buyers, the Nex E-mount would seem greatly advantageous just for the size difference. Why make a big bulky dSLR when it's no longer necessary?

Putting aside those people already heavily invested in lenses (a small percentage of camera buyers), how many people would prefer a big bulky dSLR-sized mirrorless over a small compact NEX size mirrorless?

Personally, I'd take the bulk, for easier access to the manual controls, for better fit in my hands, and for the Internal stabilization system.  But I have a bad feeling I'm in the minority.  In which case, how long before Sony just picks the E-mount over the A-mount?

In which case when my current SLT dies or becomes hopelessly outdated, I'll have nothing to use my lenses on?

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james2k50
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Re: No more SLT!
In reply to havoc315, Apr 29, 2013

havoc315 wrote:

The real issue, is the future of the A-mount for those heavily invested in Sony/Minolta lenses.

This is the real "meat and potatoes" question for me. What is the future of the A Mount? I believe Sony will not abandon it, because it would have a negative impact on its users. I for one have many A Mount lenses and hope to continue with the Sony line. Thus far, I am perfectly happy

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dr jim
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Re: Photography-centric
In reply to cplunk, Apr 29, 2013

I'm not so sure that I'd agree with your Dad.  (No disrespect intended) While all the technology and "toy" aspect are fun, if he were right, I'd never play another round of golf or build another piece of furniture.  I get great personal pleasure from shooting a "great round" or making something nice, no matter if someone else can, or has done better. Maybe that was the case with family vacation type photography, but I don't think that's why a lot of us are here.  We like creating something nice, not just documenting a journey.

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Just for fun!
Jim

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cosmonaut
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Re: Unfair!
In reply to Dirk W, Apr 29, 2013

Dirk W wrote:

Poor people who just invested in an expensive SLT body that will soon be outdated by some superior totally new successor technology - if nothing else this will really hurt the resale-value of the SLT.

We live in a disposable world but the SLT didn't hurt the resale value of the a900. I am having a blast with my a99 and probably will be for many years.

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El Profe
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Re: Oooh! Exciting!
In reply to justcuz, Apr 29, 2013

I agree 200% with "But I won't pay $1,000 for a slower camera body just because it's smaller and mirrorless.  I will switch systems if that happens".

In my case my A700 and my A900 are the only two cameras I am planning to keep. (I already get rid of my A55). Although I am planning to give my A700 to my son for him to learn & practice before he go and buy a Pentax K5-II.

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dlkeller
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Re: Unfair!
In reply to Chris Malcolm, Apr 29, 2013

Yes, I can see by the market that Canon and Nikon DSLR sales really suffered when Sony released their SLT and NEX models!!!

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cplunk
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Re: Photography-centric
In reply to dr jim, Apr 29, 2013

dr jim wrote:

I'm not so sure that I'd agree with your Dad.  (No disrespect intended) While all the technology and "toy" aspect are fun, if he were right, I'd never play another round of golf or build another piece of furniture.  I get great personal pleasure from shooting a "great round" or making something nice, no matter if someone else can, or has done better. Maybe that was the case with family vacation type photography, but I don't think that's why a lot of us are here.  We like creating something nice, not just documenting a journey.

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Just for fun!
Jim

And if that's what you enjoy, do it.

Someone's gotta take the pictures in the books. But even for some of us that do enjoy photography, you gotta admit that the amount of time and energy spent to get pictures of that quality can turn into work, and stops being enjoyable at some point.

From a purely practical standpoint, don't expect everyone to agree with your justifications.

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dr jim
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Re: Unfair!
In reply to dlkeller, Apr 29, 2013

Right, and they barely survived when Minolta introduced the AF lens.

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Jim

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SHood
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A merging of Alpha and NEX courtesy of Aptina
In reply to andreac75, Apr 29, 2013

Looks like the sharing of patents with Aptina (Nikon 1 sensor) will allow Sony to develop a sensor with the fast sensor-reads required for faster AF.  Then the only difference between Alpha and NEX is that Alpha has a fix A-mount adaptor with the traditional DSLR design format.  There is nothing stopping Sony from introducing a NEX line with a traditional DSLR design (like the GH3) and an optional alpha mount adaptor.  There is no longer the need for a separate Alpha line any more.

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dr jim
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Re: Photography-centric
In reply to cplunk, Apr 29, 2013

LOL, on this forum I wouldn't expect everyone to agree with me if I said my name was Jim. Your comments really made me think about why we/I enjoy this photography thing.  Is it indeed just 'cause we're gear heads?  God knows I love me some new toys! But that's not all of it for sure. We're each different, I suspect, in what motivates us, but for me, along with scratching the new toy itch, I get great joy in creating, or at least capturing, something beautiful.

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Just for fun!
Jim

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cosmonaut
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Re: No more SLT!
In reply to andreac75, Apr 29, 2013

I really don't see how the mirror issue even matters. For months before the first SLTs hit the market all I read was it will never work, it was tried in the film era and the view finder was to dark and yada, yada. no one figured on the EVF. Yes it works and works well. My a850 didn't quit working when the SLT came out and my a99 won't quit working when the SLT is a thing of the past. If need be I will upgrade to the next Sony FF mirror or not.

I just don't see what the big deal is and I don't see it that Sony has tried to hood wink or fool anyone. The a850/900 were and are still great performing cameras and my a99 will be for many years.

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sean lancaster
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Re: Photography-centric
In reply to cplunk, Apr 29, 2013

cplunk wrote:

dr jim wrote:

I'm not so sure that I'd agree with your Dad.  (No disrespect intended) While all the technology and "toy" aspect are fun, if he were right, I'd never play another round of golf or build another piece of furniture.  I get great personal pleasure from shooting a "great round" or making something nice, no matter if someone else can, or has done better. Maybe that was the case with family vacation type photography, but I don't think that's why a lot of us are here.  We like creating something nice, not just documenting a journey.

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Just for fun!
Jim

And if that's what you enjoy, do it.

Someone's gotta take the pictures in the books. But even for some of us that do enjoy photography, you gotta admit that the amount of time and energy spent to get pictures of that quality can turn into work, and stops being enjoyable at some point.

From a purely practical standpoint, don't expect everyone to agree with your justifications.

I am never going to make the PGA tour either, but I sure do enjoy trying to improve my game. With photography, I enjoy trying to get terrific images. I read up and study the art and I practice. I work hard to rely on skill rather than luck to get an aesthetically pleasing photo . . . and I enjoy it immensely. I am sorry that you see that energy being spent as something other than enjoyable. I'd never spend the money and time I spend on this hobby if I suddenly felt like it was a chore. And in my case, I have A LOT of room to improve so I can see the benefits of my efforts paying off from year to year (and even month to month).

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