Isn't it amazing......

Started Apr 27, 2013 | Discussions
Mannypr
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Re: Isn't it amazing......
In reply to photoreddi, Apr 29, 2013

I know  that this is a technological forum but we must admit that the main reason of our hobby is more artistic then  anything else . I'm pretty sure a photographers artistic intent can be render with a D50 as with a D7100 in absolute terms even though I admit it depends on the type of photography being done as in sports  that reguires  a better  autofocus system .

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wasi2quick
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Re: Isn't it amazing......
In reply to fotolopithecus, Apr 29, 2013

I loved my D7000. I had it for over two years. The only reason I traded it in was to get the D7100  because I had to have a new toy.  I must admit that with the D7100 I'm getting better results because I'm  using better glass. Heck, I had a 8008 film camera for 8 years.

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Dave Luttmann
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Re: Isn't it amazing......
In reply to Stacey_K, Apr 30, 2013

Stacey_K wrote:

Dave Luttmann wrote:

Stacey_K wrote:

john Clinch wrote:

B&W in a dark room. 3 or 4 hours to produce 4-6 poor prints...

B&W is what I miss about film. I was pretty good in the darkroom and still haven't gotten results from digital that = what I got with B&W film. Color? Yes digital is great and like you I hated color neg film because God only knows what you would get back from the lab. Slide film was nice but again, hard to get a good print from. But B&W imho still looks very nice from film.

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Stacey

Give Silver Efex 2 a try.

The problem I have isn't making a nice B&W conversion, it's getting a print that has the look of a nice fiber B&W print.

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Stacey

The two go hand in hand.  That said, take a look at Piezography inkjet printing.  It uses 7 shades of black and with a Baryta paper, you'll have the fibre look you're after.  I find it can have the dMax of a gelatin silver print, while having the long tonal midrange and texture of a platinum palladium print.

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yray
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Re: Isn't it amazing......
In reply to Dave Luttmann, Apr 30, 2013

Dave Luttmann wrote:

Stacey_K wrote:

john Clinch wrote:

B&W in a dark room. 3 or 4 hours to produce 4-6 poor prints...

B&W is what I miss about film. I was pretty good in the darkroom and still haven't gotten results from digital that = what I got with B&W film. Color? Yes digital is great and like you I hated color neg film because God only knows what you would get back from the lab. Slide film was nice but again, hard to get a good print from. But B&W imho still looks very nice from film.

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Stacey

Give Silver Efex 2 a try.

And DxO Filmpack is a worthy alternative/complement as well.

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Nexu1
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Re: Past the butter zone
In reply to mosswings, Apr 30, 2013

mosswings wrote:

Nexu1 wrote:

I'll admit, I do not agree with Reilly very often.  But I've been putting pen to paper and have to say that if you just bite the bullet and buy the new model, and meanwhile ebay your current model, you can stay in the most current model without spending much more than upgrading every other model.  For example:

The following is for body only and both examples utilize a "buy in" with the D90.

2008 buy D90 (-$900), wait until 2013 and buy D7100 (-$1200), sell D90 (+$450) = total expense $1650

2008 buy D90 (-$900), 2010 buy D7000 (-$1100) and sell D90 (+$600), 2013 buy D7100 (-$1200) and sell D7000 (+$700) = total expense $1900

So you save about $250 over a few years by sitting on the older model?

The main way to make this financial model work in favor of the person who doesn't upgrade often would be to consider that they always want to have a backup camera and they always want their backup to be relatively new (for example, you won't sell your D7000 because you need it as a backup).  If you don't sell your old camera you're talking about a $1100 difference which is quite a bit.

I'm curious what others think of this strategy.

There are other factors one might have to consider depending on their intentions. There's the possibility of lens upgrades as well; that 5-year old 18-105 is getting a bit long in the tooth for the D7100's performance level, so a discriminating upgrader might need to consider a 16-85 or one of the f2.8 midrange zooms and to rearrange their zoom kit.  A prime shooter would be good to go.  Mind you, you'll see improvements with the older glass, just not all you've paid for with the new body.  Sort of a diminutive version of the problem FX/D800 upgraders face.

Certainly waiting 2 generations to upgrade increases the total cash outlay as that 7-8 year old body is now worth no more than $200-300.  So every other generation is about optimum if you intend to sell to recoup upgrade costs.

The other factor in the upgrade equation is support costs.  For the local shooter, additional SD card storage is a non issue; for the travel shooter, storage costs have nearly tripled.  The D90 shooter may still be working with a fairly old computer.  I had to upgrade a couple of years in to my D90 ownership to handle serious RAW editing tasks.  I'm probably still good to go with a D7100, but it will probably be time for more disk space and RAM.  Only a couple Benjamins for the desktop user with a relatively contemporary CPU, but a laptop user may need to replace their computer: another $800-$1000.

Beware the hidden costs, grasshopper.

Thanks for your opinion.  Good reasons for the non-enthusiast to not upgrade.  For the enthusiast, I struggle to agree that the reasons you gave carry much weight.  I think the best reason for the non-enthusiast to not upgrade from the D7000 to D7100 is that they feel the improvement just isn't worth $300-500.  I'm a strong believer in the diminutive return logic.

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jpdenk
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Re: Isn't it amazing......
In reply to fotolopithecus, Apr 30, 2013

My cynical opinion: These forums have lots of camera junkies who HAVE to have the newest piece of kit or else their life isn't worth living. To them, whenever a new body comes out, it totally blows away all other bodies that have come before it, so any older body is then total garbage. So it's probably not the best place to ask that question.    

John

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WorldofZAP
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Re: Isn't it amazing......
In reply to fotolopithecus, Apr 30, 2013

fotolopithecus wrote:

That a camera scarcely two, and a half years old is referred to as the aging D7000, or described as getting long in the tooth on testing sites.  I once thought the roughly five year wait between film slr's was quite a long time, but in hindsight it seems just about right.

The older you get the faster time goes, but a camera less than three years old being compared to a dinosaur, seems ridiculous on the face of it. Of course I understand why camera makers promote this sort of thinking, but are we just on their treadmill in search of the Holy grail, which will never be found, but is always just around the next corner?

I'm always amused to read posts from people who state things like " I use to have a D7000, and loved it, and am now shooting with a D5200, but wonder if I should upgrade to the D7100." Ancient history those D7000 days, and OMG! I'm not sure if I was born when the D90 was released.

Who's perception of time is valid here? Is two years a really long time, or is it as it seems to me very recent to the point that I feel like my D7000 is just getting broken in. I told a friend of mine the other day whom I had recommended the D90 to about three years ago, that it was time for him to upgrade to the D7100. ARE YOU NUTS, I JUST GOT THE THING ON YOUR ADVISE!

Lol.... I reversed course, and told him I was just kidding.

I just scanned through most of the posts on this thread and could have missed something, but my advice to anyone who owns the D7000 is to not worry about upgrading to the D7100. I really do no see that big of an upgrade. Yes there are a few bells and whistles. But nothing you can't live without in the D7000. My wife gave me a choice a couple of years ago D5100 for Christmas, or wait for a D7000 later. She got a kit deal through Costco. I enjoyed the D5100 very much. One of the reasons I wanted a D7000 was less menu diving when I want to change controls etc... I only didn't get a D7000 because I was waiting for this refresh and saving my money. Well here it is. The D5100 I am giving to my wife. It is a great camera and I told her if she is not interested in getting out of auto I would keep it as a backup. If I had gotten the D7000 I would not be looking to get the D7100 at all. I never even looked at the D5200 as an upgrade to my 5100.

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Nexu1
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Re: Isn't it amazing......
In reply to jpdenk, Apr 30, 2013

jpdenk wrote:

My cynical opinion: These forums have lots of camera junkies who HAVE to have the newest piece of kit or else their life isn't worth living. To them, whenever a new body comes out, it totally blows away all other bodies that have come before it, so any older body is then total garbage. So it's probably not the best place to ask that question.    

John

You mean those times when you take a picture and you feel like you got a really-really-really good one, a special one, you don't then go home and study it from all angles at 100% and then fret that if you had a new body perhaps it would've been 2% sharper?  What is wrong with you?  

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FujicaST605
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Re: Isn't it amazing......
In reply to fotolopithecus, Apr 30, 2013

Isn't it amazing how with every new generation of camera body, there is a very vocal group with the previous camera who go about the Internet Fora proclaiming why the new camera is a minor unnecessary upgrade.

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Reilly Diefenbach
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Re: Isn't it amazing......
In reply to FujicaST605, Apr 30, 2013

FujicaST605 wrote:

Isn't it amazing how with every new generation of camera body, there is a very vocal group with the previous camera who go about the Internet Fora proclaiming why the new camera is a minor unnecessary upgrade.

It's actually pretty mild compared to the last go round with the D90 to D7000 transition.  Almost no one has done the 150 post can't focus my 351.8 at two feet on the battery on the far left side thing.  Refreshing, and pretty good evidence that even those who refuse to practice or figure out the correct settings can get good results straight out of the box.  In any event, there's no better focusing available, even if the camera wasn't 25% sharper.

Which it is.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/51368683

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fotolopithecus
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Re: Isn't it amazing......
In reply to FujicaST605, Apr 30, 2013

FujicaST605 wrote:

Isn't it amazing how with every new generation of camera body, there is a very vocal group with the previous camera who go about the Internet Fora proclaiming why the new camera is a minor unnecessary upgrade.

True, and sometimes there are folks who think the previous model is better in some respects. Can't speak for others, but that's the camp I fall into.

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VidJa
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Re: Isn't it amazing......
In reply to photoreddi, Apr 30, 2013

Are you kidding, The D7100 is sold for less than E1100,-. A new D90 is about 500. It's not the money, but the size of the cam and articulated screen. We'll see, I might get an oly

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jpdenk
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Re: Isn't it amazing......
In reply to Nexu1, Apr 30, 2013
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herbymel
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Re: Isn't it amazing......
In reply to FujicaST605, Apr 30, 2013

FujicaST605 wrote:

Isn't it amazing how with every new generation of camera body, there is a very vocal group with the previous camera who go about the Internet Fora proclaiming why the new camera is a minor unnecessary upgrade.

I don't have the previous camera anymore, but for the most part and for most people what they're saying is true. For certain people the upgrade is worthwhile. I think Jim can attest to that. For the average shooter to enthusiast there isn't going to be that much of a difference.

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Excitable Boy

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photoreddi
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In the year 2020...
In reply to VidJa, Apr 30, 2013

VidJa wrote:

Are you kidding, The D7100 is sold for less than E1100,-. A new D90 is about 500. It's not the money, but the size of the cam and articulated screen. We'll see, I might get an oly

The D90 and D50 are about the same size and weight. You said that you're still enjoying your old D50, so you wouldn't enjoy the D90 which is a much better camera? Ok, get an Olympus instead, but I doubt that you'll get as much life from it as you've had so far from your 7 year old D50.

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VidJa
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Re: In the year 2020...
In reply to photoreddi, Apr 30, 2013

nhaaa, don't think so either....

This is what my 9 year old does with the D50, both at iso 1600, chimp at iso 200

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Sammy Yousef
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Re: Isn't it amazing......
In reply to Whalligeo, May 1, 2013

Whalligeo wrote:

On the flip side, there have been one or two posters who say they will wait for a year or two before buying the D7100. This time travel thing is all getting a bit much. When I have the time, I still use my Voigtlander Bessa II.

I love buying obsolete gear at close out or even second hand if condition is good. Best bang for your buck, and all long term design and QC issues known, and some sorted. Of course repairs may be harder, but they're hard anyway and if you're saving half the cost of the camera up front who cares!? It also means you can buy a backup or two for the price you would have spent in the first place.

I'm one of the ones who'll wait a while (probably Christmas at least) to buy a D7100. I'm shooting an airshow this weekend weather allowing. And I'd love a D7100. I just love feeding, clothing and sheltering my family a whole lot more. So a pair of D90s will just have to do me.

Besides I too am an aging dinosaur. If I were camera gear I would have been obsolete in about '77.

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My forum postings reflect my own opinions and not those of my employer. I'm not employed in the photo business.

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golf1982
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Re: Isn't it amazing......
In reply to Stacey_K, May 1, 2013

Stacey_K wrote:

Dave Luttmann wrote:

Stacey_K wrote:

john Clinch wrote:

B&W in a dark room. 3 or 4 hours to produce 4-6 poor prints...

B&W is what I miss about film. I was pretty good in the darkroom and still haven't gotten results from digital that = what I got with B&W film. Color? Yes digital is great and like you I hated color neg film because God only knows what you would get back from the lab. Slide film was nice but again, hard to get a good print from. But B&W imho still looks very nice from film.

-- hide signature --

Stacey

Give Silver Efex 2 a try.

The problem I have isn't making a nice B&W conversion, it's getting a print that has the look of a nice fiber B&W print.

-- hide signature --

Stacey

Why not shoot with film then. It is still around, and a top of the line used camera can be had for very little.

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lovenikonandflute
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Re: Isn't it amazing......
In reply to Future user, May 1, 2013

It's much better to spend some years in getting the best of what you have, instead of treating as disposable technology and getting obsessed over the next best thing, but hey, it's ok as long as they don't try to impose their opinions.

The truth is that nowadays we can get a level of quality good enough to sit down and rest with our gear for many years. The big question is: how many of us will do this?

Agree. I just upgraded from original d40 a few months ago, and I bought a camera that is already "old" by digital standards. I'm planning on keeping it until it dies. At which point it will be even older.

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Pedro Negreiros
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Re: Isn't it amazing......
In reply to Future user, May 1, 2013

Future user wrote:

It's much better to spend some years in getting the best of what you have, instead of treating as disposable technology and getting obsessed over the next best thing, but hey, it's ok as long as they don't try to impose their opinions.

The truth is that nowadays we can get a level of quality good enough to sit down and rest with our gear for many years. The big question is: how many of us will do this?

Completly agree with you.

The difference is that the digital universe has gone beyond our wild expectations in less than 10 years, which can push for at least one upgrade within that time period.

I've bought the D80 when it was released and i'm thinking on buying another one (quite possibly the D7100) because it's dying on my hands (almost 100.000 shots).

When the D80 goes down i would be very happy to have learned, mastered it and demande more than it could give me. Some might be more of a "technical/ hardware" type of person, others are spending their time on squeezing the best their equipement can give them.

I always saw the "limitations" of my equipement as a challenge to try not only to overcome it (when possible) but to think creatively how i can bend them/ go beyond it.

Anyway, i'm always amazed about the "leap of quality/ crazy features" a person can have nowadays with just a "small budget".

It's a great time for being a photographer anyway...

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