Does Sony force Sigma to disable OS in lens?

Started Apr 26, 2013 | Discussions
Sonyshine
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Re: Does Sony force Sigma to disable OS in lens?
In reply to OpticsEngineer, Apr 27, 2013

I am in full agreement with you on this.

The Sony Steady Shot system is superb.

Having previously used Sigma stabilised lenses on my  (sold now ) Canon  there is no way that it is superior.

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The_Wicker_Man
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Want to compare stabilisation?
In reply to AarSee, Apr 27, 2013

Then

(a) take the camera off the tripod, and

(b) turn off the flash

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havoc315
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Re: Does Sony force Sigma to disable OS in lens?
In reply to Adventsam, Apr 27, 2013

A bit of a silly discussion.
While Canon/Nikon users often disparage Sony cameras, even most objective Canon/Nikon shooters I know are a bit envious of the SteadyShot system. It's a great stabilization system.

If lens makers offered Sony users the choice, they absolutely would make the image stabilized lenses more expensive. Look at the Tamron 17-50, where the VC version is $200 more in Canon/Nikon mounts.

What percentage of Sony shooters would really want to pay $200 extra just for the choice of lens stabilization?

Even if the price was the same, as with some lenses, what percentage of Sony shooters would really bother shutting down SteadyShot and opting for an inferior lens stabilization?

And yes-- inferior. If shooting video, SteadyShot is much quieter than lens stabilization. And SteadyShot provides as much additional stabilization as any lens based system.

So this whole discussion is about a redundant feature that is irrelevant to 99.9% of Sony shooters.

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Adventsam
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Re: Does Sony force Sigma to disable OS in lens?
In reply to havoc315, Apr 27, 2013

havoc315 wrote:

A bit of a silly discussion.
While Canon/Nikon users often disparage Sony cameras, even most objective Canon/Nikon shooters I know are a bit envious of the SteadyShot system. It's a great stabilization system.

If lens makers offered Sony users the choice, they absolutely would make the image stabilized lenses more expensive. Look at the Tamron 17-50, where the VC version is $200 more in Canon/Nikon mounts.

What percentage of Sony shooters would really want to pay $200 extra just for the choice of lens stabilization?

Even if the price was the same, as with some lenses, what percentage of Sony shooters would really bother shutting down SteadyShot and opting for an inferior lens stabilization?

And yes-- inferior. If shooting video, SteadyShot is much quieter than lens stabilization. And SteadyShot provides as much additional stabilization as any lens based system.

So this whole discussion is about a redundant feature that is irrelevant to 99.9% of Sony shooters.

For stills SSS is OK, for video, hmmmmmm!

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Sonyshine
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Re: Does Sony force Sigma to disable OS in lens?
In reply to havoc315, Apr 27, 2013

havoc315 wrote:

A bit of a silly discussion.
While Canon/Nikon users often disparage Sony cameras, even most objective Canon/Nikon shooters I know are a bit envious of the SteadyShot system. It's a great stabilization system.

If lens makers offered Sony users the choice, they absolutely would make the image stabilized lenses more expensive. Look at the Tamron 17-50, where the VC version is $200 more in Canon/Nikon mounts.

What percentage of Sony shooters would really want to pay $200 extra just for the choice of lens stabilization?

Even if the price was the same, as with some lenses, what percentage of Sony shooters would really bother shutting down SteadyShot and opting for an inferior lens stabilization?

And yes-- inferior. If shooting video, SteadyShot is much quieter than lens stabilization. And SteadyShot provides as much additional stabilization as any lens based system.

So this whole discussion is about a redundant feature that is irrelevant to 99.9% of Sony shooters.

A  fitting conclusion to this topic?

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Adventsam
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Re: Does Sony force Sigma to disable OS in lens?
In reply to Sonyshine, Apr 27, 2013

Sonyshine wrote:

havoc315 wrote:

A bit of a silly discussion.
While Canon/Nikon users often disparage Sony cameras, even most objective Canon/Nikon shooters I know are a bit envious of the SteadyShot system. It's a great stabilization system.

If lens makers offered Sony users the choice, they absolutely would make the image stabilized lenses more expensive. Look at the Tamron 17-50, where the VC version is $200 more in Canon/Nikon mounts.

What percentage of Sony shooters would really want to pay $200 extra just for the choice of lens stabilization?

Even if the price was the same, as with some lenses, what percentage of Sony shooters would really bother shutting down SteadyShot and opting for an inferior lens stabilization?

And yes-- inferior. If shooting video, SteadyShot is much quieter than lens stabilization. And SteadyShot provides as much additional stabilization as any lens based system.

LOL

So this whole discussion is about a redundant feature that is irrelevant to 99.9% of Sony shooters.

LOL

A  fitting conclusion to this topic?

LOL

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JimmyMelbourne
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Re: Does Sony force Sigma to disable OS in lens?
In reply to Adventsam, Apr 27, 2013

Sigma and Tamron choose not to have stabilization in their lens A mount cameras. There is no evidence that Sony forces it. Particularly for Sigma, where they have put it in some lenses and not others. Plus, Sigma does not pay royalties to use the A mount, they basically operate independent. What benefit would Sony get stopping these manufacturers from including it? How could Sony influence Sigma anyway even if they wanted to?

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Adventsam
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Re: Does Sony force Sigma to disable OS in lens?
In reply to JimmyMelbourne, Apr 27, 2013

JimmyMelbourne wrote:

Sigma and Tamron choose not to have stabilization in their lens A mount cameras. There is no evidence that Sony forces it. Particularly for Sigma, where they have put it in some lenses and not others. Plus, Sigma does not pay royalties to use the A mount, they basically operate independent. What benefit would Sony get stopping these manufacturers from including it? How could Sony influence Sigma anyway even if they wanted to?

I don't know but it must cost more to take it off! Sony is obviously ensuring they have parity in the area they also have product, its Sony driven and its bad.

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JimmyMelbourne
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Re: Does Sony force Sigma to disable OS in lens?
In reply to Adventsam, Apr 27, 2013

Purely guesswork on your part, bad guesswork at that.

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Brian_Smith
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Re: Does Sony force Sigma to disable OS in lens?
In reply to Adventsam, Apr 27, 2013

Sony does not 'force' Sigma to do anything.

The two companies have no relationship.

Unlike Tamron, Sigma does not license Sony lens mount protocols - so they do as they wish for better or worse.

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cplunk
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Re: Does Sony force Sigma to disable OS in lens?
In reply to Brian_Smith, Apr 28, 2013

Brian_Smith wrote:

Sony does not 'force' Sigma to do anything.

The two companies have no relationship.

Unlike Tamron, Sigma does not license Sony lens mount protocols - so they do as they wish for better or worse.

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If I were to really let my imagination run wild, I could dream up some conspiracy about Sony intentionally disabling Sigma lenses in firmware.

Of course, this would likely harm Sony sale as well, with users delaying, or refusing to upgrade bodies so they can continue to use there Sigma lenses. So, it's pretty difficult to think that scenario would ever be reality.

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Brian_Smith
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Re: Does Sony force Sigma to disable OS in lens?
In reply to cplunk, Apr 28, 2013

cplunk wrote:

If I were to really let my imagination run wild, I could dream up some conspiracy about Sony intentionally disabling Sigma lenses in firmware.

Of course, this would likely harm Sony sale as well, with users delaying, or refusing to upgrade bodies so they can continue to use there Sigma lenses. So, it's pretty difficult to think that scenario would ever be reality.

Your imagination is working way too hard. Sigma is a third party lens maker. Just like companies that make after-market grips, they operate independently of Sony. There is no Oliver Stone Conspiracy at work. Give Sigma enough credit to know that Sony cameras have built-in steady-shot.

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brian14478
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Re: Does Sony force Sigma to disable OS in lens?
In reply to cplunk, Apr 28, 2013

cplunk wrote:

If I were to really let my imagination run wild, I could dream up some conspiracy about Sony intentionally disabling Sigma lenses in firmware.

Of course, this would likely harm Sony sale as well, with users delaying, or refusing to upgrade bodies so they can continue to use there Sigma lenses. So, it's pretty difficult to think that scenario would ever be reality.

It has been a reality and not only with sony...minolta nikon and canon have found ways throughout the years to hit sigma with compatability issues..

If you look at specific sigma lenses that were having compatability problems with the manufacturers you will find that the best sigma had to offer were generally the ones with 'issues'. Didnt matter if it was a wide angle/fast zoom ect.

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=8569.15 this is the thread.***

I have a sigma 75-200(3) actually. Built around 1987 listed as as the zoom delta, when minolta had their 70-200apo g  the 70-210f4 'beercan' and the 100 2.8 macro,  this lens  probably outperformed/compared favorably with every single one of them .  As for not 'keeping up' with tech , now they af with a77 and a65's and probably the a99 .    Its not hard to realize why really, conspiracy theory?.. i think its just been buisness....brian

(these were all open manual focus with this 'incompatable sigma' built in 1987-1989)

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cplunk
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Re: Does Sony force Sigma to disable OS in lens?
In reply to Brian_Smith, Apr 28, 2013

Brian_Smith wrote:

cplunk wrote:

If I were to really let my imagination run wild, I could dream up some conspiracy about Sony intentionally disabling Sigma lenses in firmware.

Of course, this would likely harm Sony sale as well, with users delaying, or refusing to upgrade bodies so they can continue to use there Sigma lenses. So, it's pretty difficult to think that scenario would ever be reality.

Your imagination is working way too hard. Sigma is a third party lens maker. Just like companies that make after-market grips, they operate independently of Sony. There is no Oliver Stone Conspiracy at work. Give Sigma enough credit to know that Sony cameras have built-in steady-shot.

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How else would Sony force Sigma to do anything?

That's the only method I can imagine, and it doesn't seem reasonable. Olives Stone's conspiracies are much more believable.

As I mentioned earlier, it's much easier for me to believe that Sigma's had too much negative feedback due to people using the OS on lens with steady shot turned on. Sure, it will work fine with steady shot disabled, but too many people getting poor results due to not understanding proper use of the product can create enough support issues and bad press that it's probably worth it to just remove that feature.

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TomTom1
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Re: Does Sony force Sigma to disable OS in lens?
In reply to Adventsam, 9 months ago

I hear and agree all your tech opinions, but it bothering me the most is the price, that all the sigma lens (I could find) with or without OS on either mount are the same price (sigma 70-200 2.8 all has OS on different mount and same price), whereas tamron has more reasonable price difference on that example the guy just point out (17-50 2.8). That at least makes me feel better buying it. If sigma insist to have the same price through all mount with or without OS, they should at least throw in a better glass to the lens that doesn't have OS than the counterpart instead of that useless WEIGHT in the lens. Or it'll just seems that they're in favor of nikon and canon customers to me.

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Dave Oddie
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Re: Does Sony force Sigma to disable OS in lens?
In reply to Adventsam, 9 months ago

Adventsam wrote:

All new Sigma lens have Optical Stabilisation disabled, why? crazy.

It is enabled on my 105mm Sigma EX DO OS HSM Macro.  Don't you just love all those letters in the name!

Great lens whether used with or without OS switched on.

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Michel J
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Without OIS your lenses are more reliable, so what the problem?
In reply to Adventsam, 9 months ago

Adventsam wrote:

Does Sony force Sigma to disable OS in lens?

All new Sigma lens have Optical Stabilisation disabled, why? crazy.

Without OIS your lenses are more reliable, so what the problem?

Moreover, when you buy a brand new camera, It's as if you had made an upgrade for free of the stab of all your lineup at the same time!

And now, you still would like IOS?

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Michel J
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enemjii
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Re: Does Sony force Sigma to disable OS in lens?
In reply to mick232, 9 months ago

mick232 wrote:

Adam Benn wrote:

Wrong. Since the evf is displaying an image from the sensor, which is optically stabilized, the image in the evf is stabilized.

Back before evf's, you were correct, as the view finder was a real view using mirrors in front of the sensor.

Wrong. The sensor is only stabilized at the moment of exposure, not during live view.

Interesting. The panasonic FZ series has mode-1, and mode-2.

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Dsnoir
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Re: Does Sony force Sigma to disable OS in lens?
In reply to Adventsam, 9 months ago

Its not disabled at all, what they say is that if you are using the cameras in built stabilisation you should disable the stabilisation in the lens, and visa versa.

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LeicaBOSS
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Re: Does Sony force Sigma to disable OS in lens?
In reply to Adventsam, 9 months ago

Adam Benn wrote:

mick232 wrote:

Adam Benn wrote:

Wrong.  Since the evf is displaying an image from the sensor, which is optically stabilized, the image in the evf is stabilized.

Back before evf's, you were correct, as the view finder was a real view using mirrors in front of the sensor.

Wrong. The sensor is only stabilized at the moment of exposure, not during live view.

I was wondering about that, but some quick Googling suggested that it should be stabilized at all times.  Oh well.

Thinking to my experience though, there must be stabilization active once the camera is focused (half press).  When the camera is idle, there is little point to actively stabilizing.  But I believe that is true of lens stabilization too - the stabilization system sits idle but ready, and then activates when the shutter button is depressed half way.

No, the only time you have stabilised evf is during video and that's a bit weird as its digital and weird fluttering goes on, OIS would cure all this, oh but Sony decided its not necessary it seems, frustrating to say the least as the stabilised video aint bad but as soon as you move in lower light static situations you can see the digital stabilisation doing its own thing.

The whole thing is sad because Sigma OIS works significantly better than the sensor Stabilization.

I called Sigma. They said Sony users call all the time to complain about soft lenses and it just ends up being that they forgot to turn off sensor Stabilization. It's a hassle for them to disable it, but too many Sony shooters are idiots I guess.

They said if enough people call and write, asking for OIS back, they would consider it for future releases.

Write to Sigma. http://www.sigmaphoto.com/about-sigma/contact-us
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