Does Sony force Sigma to disable OS in lens?

Started Apr 26, 2013 | Discussions
Amateur Sony Shooter
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Re: Does Sony force Sigma to disable OS in lens?
In reply to cplunk, Apr 27, 2013

cplunk wrote:

Amateur Sony Shooter wrote:

If you weight Sigma/Tamron lens for Canon (or Nikon) and Sony version, and if both weight the same chances are Sony version still have OS/VC built-in but the button is concealed - just a thought!

It think they wight about the same because all the bits that create the stabilization can't entirely be just removed without redesigning the entire lens, so they replace them with similar, but non stabilizing bits that just sit there, and weight a similar amount.

It would cost them more to fit the lens OS/VC with other non-functional dummy partS, especially for small run A-mount. I suspect it's something to do with Sony pressure.

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OpticsEngineer
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Re: Attention : Pixel Peepers. Quiz here
In reply to AarSee, Apr 27, 2013

Did I read correctly that the posted test shots are all on a tripod?

My understanding is stabilization is intended to improve handheld shots.

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AarSee
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Re: Attention : Pixel Peepers. Quiz here
In reply to OpticsEngineer, Apr 27, 2013

And we are told (by Sony) that using Steadyshot while on the tripod is not recommended.

So all of the stabilized shots should be bad?

Except for the one in which I turned everything OFF.  That one should be the best.

All you have to do is pick that one out.

Should be very easy. ?

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Adam Benn
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Re: Attention : Pixel Peepers. Quiz here
In reply to AarSee, Apr 27, 2013

Sorry, but your test is a waste of time.  Mounted on a tripod?  In theory they should all be the same.  But, there is a chance that some of the shots with stabilization turned on (lens or body) will actually be less sharp.  So, all the shots might be virtually identical, or there might be a couple that are less sharp.

What is the point in your test?

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Adam Benn
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Re: Does Sony force Sigma to disable OS in lens?
In reply to Adventsam, Apr 27, 2013

Not that I didn't believe you, but I thought I'd test anyways.  You are correct, there is no stabilization througth the EVF.  Put my telephoto zoom on and tested.

On the one hand I wonder why they didn't employ stabilization when the camera is active (half press).

But, on the other hand, this has obviously never been an issue for me.  I still get the shots that I want in a predictable way.

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EarthQuake
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Re: Does Sony force Sigma to disable OS in lens?
In reply to Adventsam, Apr 27, 2013

Adventsam wrote:

All new Sigma lens have Optical Stabilisation disabled, why? crazy.

No, the 70-200mm HSM II OS comes with OS in Sony mount, as well as a few other random Sigma lenses.

As for the EVF/IS discussion: My OMD offers stabilization in EVF with on sensor IS, so clearly its possible, would love to see Sony add this feature to their SLTs.

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Steve Cohan
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Si! nt
In reply to Ken Fordham, Apr 27, 2013
No text.
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Keit ll
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Re: Si! nt
In reply to Steve Cohan, Apr 27, 2013

It is interesting that no one has mentioned the possibility of using Sigma & Tamron lenses on Sony's NEX series by using the various adapters including Sony's own.

Some NEX users are seeking out older Stabilized Sigma in order to use them on their bodies because the Nex's do not have IBIS. The obvious solution is of course to incorporate IBIS into the NEX but for some reason Sony do not want to do this despite the fact that it would greatly facilitate the use of legacy lenses which is touted as one of the main attractions of using a NEX.

Sigma are actually losing potential sales to NEX users by dropping IS from their Alpha fitting lenses.

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Shield3
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Re: Si! nt
In reply to Keit ll, Apr 27, 2013

Keit ll wrote:

It is interesting that no one has mentioned the possibility of using Sigma & Tamron lenses on Sony's NEX series by using the various adapters including Sony's own.

Some NEX users are seeking out older Stabilized Sigma in order to use them on their bodies because the Nex's do not have IBIS. The obvious solution is of course to incorporate IBIS into the NEX but for some reason Sony do not want to do this despite the fact that it would greatly facilitate the use of legacy lenses which is touted as one of the main attractions of using a NEX.

Sigma are actually losing potential sales to NEX users by dropping IS from their Alpha fitting lenses.

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Keith C

I actually did this about a year ago with the LA-EA2 + Nex5n + Sigma 17-50 OS.  Worked a real treat.  IMO in-lens stabilization always works best, and I don't have to dive into a menu to shut it off (a850/a900 users excluded, of course).

Talk about a pain in the neck trying to track down the "older" Sigma 17-50 OS version.

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Peter Heckert2
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Customers buy it anyway...
In reply to Adventsam, Apr 27, 2013

because there is no alternative choice from competitors.
So they can make some extra bucks.

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Adventsam
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Re:IBIS is cool for stills, but video!
In reply to Peter Heckert2, Apr 27, 2013

Peter Heckert2 wrote:

because there is no alternative choice from competitors.
So they can make some extra bucks.

I am not convinced by Sony IBIS/Digital stab or whatever it is for video, some random fluttering going on and any minor movements causes frame break-up, the af is almost uselesss for video as there is far too much going on for the processor to deal with! Therefore if we look to the new breed of Sigma with OIS built-in, oh Sony asked us to disable it, what! So we have a great evf for videoing with but we are stuck with Sony's useless IBIS for video, this stinks big time. I'll the tracking today but if I cant use it due to poor stabilisation and random stuff going on this camera is going back.

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JimmyMelbourne
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Re:IBIS is cool for stills, but video!
In reply to Adventsam, Apr 27, 2013

Some of the newer lenses have OS, 2.8 70 200 latest model has it.

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brian14478
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Re:IBIS is cool for stills, but video!
In reply to Adventsam, Apr 27, 2013

we are stuck with Sony's useless IBIS for video, this stinks big time. I'll the tracking today but if I cant use it due to poor stabilisation and random stuff going on this camera is going back.

But it is still first and foremost a camera..not a video-camera. For the cost/performance..its  tough to beat.  Even tamrons new 70-200 doesnt have is for sony ''well it already has sss".  But i have seen handheld shots at rediculously low shutter speeds with it on a nikon, much lower than could possible be attained with anything other than a lucky shot..

The competition- nikon and canon are most likely pressuring sigma and also tamron...In a way its a good thing, with some of sonys recent lens offerings and the availability of older compatable excellent glass with in camera stabilization.  That means they are 'sweating it' knowing the market held so long in favor of nikkors/canon l lenses by pros is being confronted directly by sony.

With the a99  and the 58 debuting at around $600 somethings up the competition is concerned with . Sony didnt just bail out with the a57/a58.. i am quite sure the next  few bodies are going to be stellar-for pros/amatuers alike.(choices)

Sony has made sensors for major companies and they are looking elsewhere now themselves, not because  of an inferior product(obviously)but because sony is 'getting in thier buisness'...nikon knows that as does canon..Sigma and tamron sell many lenses for those bodies also*

What happens when sony comes out with lens based stabilization on thier lenses????

Its going to happen,..it isnt like sony doesnt have the tech or r/d to start doing just that.

The big "Q" is when...just dont want to see you leave the alpha system. In the long run(not too long)i think we will find it veeery worthwhile to ride it out with the alpha/sony/minolta system,brian

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busch
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Re: Does Sony force Sigma to disable OS in lens?
In reply to Adventsam, Apr 27, 2013

Why would Sony force them to do that? I think that idea is a bit off the deep end. From my limited experience the Sony system works better that the Sigma anyway, so I would turn off the in lens stabilizer if I had it.

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havoc315
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Re: Si! nt
In reply to Keit ll, Apr 27, 2013

Keit ll wrote:

It is interesting that no one has mentioned the possibility of using Sigma & Tamron lenses on Sony's NEX series by using the various adapters including Sony's own.

Some NEX users are seeking out older Stabilized Sigma in order to use them on their bodies because the Nex's do not have IBIS. The obvious solution is of course to incorporate IBIS into the NEX but for some reason Sony do not want to do this despite the fact that it would greatly facilitate the use of legacy lenses which is touted as one of the main attractions of using a NEX.

Sigma are actually losing potential sales to NEX users by dropping IS from their Alpha fitting lenses.

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Keith C

Actually, I heard Sony engineers discuss ths recently.  The Nex body is too small and thin for IBIS stabilization.

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RichV
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Re: Si! nt
In reply to Keit ll, Apr 27, 2013

Keit ll wrote:

Sigma are actually losing potential sales to NEX users by dropping IS from their Alpha fitting lenses.

I'd think that the workaround is to get the C/N version with stabilization, although they'd lose AF.

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RichV
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Re: Steady shot is better
In reply to OpticsEngineer, Apr 27, 2013

I hear you on that one, but it would go down a lot easier if Sony hadn't removed the SSS button from their bodies (and NOT allowed us to map the function either). Because of this they've made OIS more convenient for those of us who need to turn SSS off at times.  Yep, it's just a few moments' work turning it off and back on, but the more quickly you can do it the better chances you have of getting the shot.

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RichV
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Re: Does Sony force Sigma to disable OS in lens?
In reply to busch, Apr 27, 2013

busch wrote:

Why would Sony force them to do that? I think that idea is a bit off the deep end. From my limited experience the Sony system works better that the Sigma anyway, so I would turn off the in lens stabilizer if I had it.

I'd be with you 100% if it weren't for the fact that Sony makes you "menu dive" to turn SSS on and off; bad move.  I want to do that for two reasons, usually: to use and "un-use" a tripod, and when I'm setting the shutter speed such that SSS doesn't give me anything (or may actually get in the way of a sharper image; at least I certainly don't want the battery usage at those speeds). This is a case where the design is getting in the way of what I want to do.

What could Sony do? They tend to like to do things for you (a la "you don't know what you're doing, so we'll automate it" (note: did Sony take away the SSS external function because it cast a disparaging image on Sony images if the photographer forgot to turn it on/off?)) so they could auto-recognize tripod (or extremely steady) shots and just stay out of the way, and they could put a rule system in the menu about SSS activation/de-activation based on FL and shutter speed, user-adjusted.

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OpticsEngineer
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Re: Does Sony force Sigma to disable OS in lens?
In reply to Adventsam, Apr 27, 2013

I guess I will be in the minority opinion on this, but seeing as how Sony Steadyshot does a better job of stablization than Sigma lens stablization, I would rather my Sigma lenses did not not have lens stabilization..

I always leave Steadyshot on and lens stablization off.  So it adds nothing to my usage, but it adds more parts and weight and is one more thing that potentially can break someday in a way that the lens doesn't work right.

It is the same on my Pentax K5ii with Sigma 70-300 mm.   The Pentax in body stabilization is better than the Sigma lens stablization, so I always leave the lens stabilization turned off.

I think one has to actually own a Sigma lens with lens stabilization to get the experience of it and be fully convinced  of this conclusion.

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Adventsam
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Re: Does Sony force Sigma to disable OS in lens?
In reply to OpticsEngineer, Apr 27, 2013

OpticsEngineer wrote:

I guess I will be in the minority opinion on this, but seeing as how Sony Steadyshot does a better job of stablization than Sigma lens stablization, I would rather my Sigma lenses did not not have lens stabilization..

I always leave Steadyshot on and lens stablization off.  So it adds nothing to my usage, but it adds more parts and weight and is one more thing that potentially can break someday in a way that the lens doesn't work right.

It is the same on my Pentax K5ii with Sigma 70-300 mm.   The Pentax in body stabilization is better than the Sigma lens stablization, so I always leave the lens stabilization turned off.

I think one has to actually own a Sigma lens with lens stabilization to get the experience of it and be fully convinced  of this conclusion.

How do you know, its not an option! For video OIS is in another league to the pathetic Digital image stabilisation they use in the SLT, its garbage.

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