Does Sony force Sigma to disable OS in lens?

Started Apr 26, 2013 | Discussions
Adventsam
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Does Sony force Sigma to disable OS in lens?
Apr 26, 2013

All new Sigma lens have Optical Stabilisation disabled, why? crazy.

Ken Fordham
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Re: Does Sony force Sigma to disable OS in lens?
In reply to Adventsam, Apr 26, 2013

Probably because stabilization is built into the Sony bodies.

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RJH1981
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Re: Does Sony force Sigma to disable OS in lens?
In reply to Ken Fordham, Apr 26, 2013

I agree with Ken. Sony has image stabilized sensors already. Canon and Nikon bodies do not provide IS so it is part of the lens features for those on Sigma.

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Adventsam
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Re: Does Sony force Sigma to disable OS in lens?
In reply to RJH1981, Apr 26, 2013

RJH1981 wrote:

I agree with Ken. Sony has image stabilized sensors already. Canon and Nikon bodies do not provide IS so it is part of the lens features for those on Sigma.

Hello, it has a button, turn it off, the OIS provides an evf stabilised view unlike Sony provides, to disable it is madness and its no cheaper either.

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Adventsam
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Re: Does Sony force Sigma to disable OS in lens?
In reply to Ken Fordham, Apr 26, 2013

Ken Fordham wrote:

Probably because stabilization is built into the Sony bodies.

It isn't built into the evf view is it! OIS provides this feature unlike Sony!

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Adam Benn
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Re: Does Sony force Sigma to disable OS in lens?
In reply to Adventsam, Apr 26, 2013

Adventsam wrote:

Ken Fordham wrote:

Probably because stabilization is built into the Sony bodies.

It isn't built into the evf view is it! OIS provides this feature unlike Sony!

Wrong.  Since the evf is displaying an image from the sensor, which is optically stabilized, the image in the evf is stabilized.

Back before evf's, you were correct, as the view finder was a real view using mirrors in front of the sensor.

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Amateur Sony Shooter
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Re: Does Sony force Sigma to disable OS in lens?
In reply to Adam Benn, Apr 26, 2013

I am fraid you are wrong. Steady Shot only works at the very moment of image being captured by main sensor.

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mick232
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Re: Does Sony force Sigma to disable OS in lens?
In reply to Adam Benn, Apr 26, 2013

Adam Benn wrote:

Wrong.  Since the evf is displaying an image from the sensor, which is optically stabilized, the image in the evf is stabilized.

Back before evf's, you were correct, as the view finder was a real view using mirrors in front of the sensor.

Wrong. The sensor is only stabilized at the moment of exposure, not during live view.

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Adam Benn
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Re: Does Sony force Sigma to disable OS in lens?
In reply to mick232, Apr 26, 2013

mick232 wrote:

Adam Benn wrote:

Wrong.  Since the evf is displaying an image from the sensor, which is optically stabilized, the image in the evf is stabilized.

Back before evf's, you were correct, as the view finder was a real view using mirrors in front of the sensor.

Wrong. The sensor is only stabilized at the moment of exposure, not during live view.

I was wondering about that, but some quick Googling suggested that it should be stabilized at all times.  Oh well.

Thinking to my experience though, there must be stabilization active once the camera is focused (half press).  When the camera is idle, there is little point to actively stabilizing.  But I believe that is true of lens stabilization too - the stabilization system sits idle but ready, and then activates when the shutter button is depressed half way.

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Adventsam
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Re: Does Sony force Sigma to disable OS in lens?
In reply to Adam Benn, Apr 26, 2013

Adam Benn wrote:

mick232 wrote:

Adam Benn wrote:

Wrong.  Since the evf is displaying an image from the sensor, which is optically stabilized, the image in the evf is stabilized.

Back before evf's, you were correct, as the view finder was a real view using mirrors in front of the sensor.

Wrong. The sensor is only stabilized at the moment of exposure, not during live view.

I was wondering about that, but some quick Googling suggested that it should be stabilized at all times.  Oh well.

Thinking to my experience though, there must be stabilization active once the camera is focused (half press).  When the camera is idle, there is little point to actively stabilizing.  But I believe that is true of lens stabilization too - the stabilization system sits idle but ready, and then activates when the shutter button is depressed half way.

No, the only time you have stabilised evf is during video and that's a bit weird as its digital and weird fluttering goes on, OIS would cure all this, oh but Sony decided its not necessary it seems, frustrating to say the least as the stabilised video aint bad but as soon as you move in lower light static situations you can see the digital stabilisation doing its own thing.

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dlkeller
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Sigma and Tamron Excuse Maybe
In reply to Ken Fordham, Apr 26, 2013

but in actuality it has made may buyers angry enough to pick Sony over their products because of this decision.  The stabilized viewfinder is very worthwhile and would be a reason to choose these lenses over equivalent Sony lenses--IF IT WERE AVAILABLE ON THEM.

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phaedin
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Re: Does Sony force Sigma to disable OS in lens?
In reply to Adventsam, Apr 26, 2013

I dont believe that Sony is forcing Sigma and Tamron to remove the OS from their lenses.

I think it is cheaper to manufacture the lenses without the OS in them. The fact that the lenses are not cheaper could be that the cost benefits are cancelled out by the cost of converting the manufacturing equipment and the relatively smaller numbers that they produce. Either that or that Sigma and Tamron calculate the total cost for all mounts and then only have 1 price (so essentially Nikon and Canon users are subsiding the Sony and Pentax users, but the Sony and Pentax users are reducing the total cost by not having OS)

There must be some financial benefit, otherwise they wouldnt do it.

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Amateur Sony Shooter
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Re: Does Sony force Sigma to disable OS in lens?
In reply to Adventsam, Apr 26, 2013

If you weight Sigma/Tamron lens for Canon (or Nikon) and Sony version, and if both weight the same chances are Sony version still have OS/VC built-in but the button is concealed - just a thought!

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cplunk
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Re: Does Sony force Sigma to disable OS in lens?
In reply to phaedin, Apr 26, 2013

Or there was too much negative customer perception due to people not smart enough to disabled the IBIS when using the OIS.

The two of them apparently work very poorly together, better off with neither than the two put together as I understand it.

There are many examples of technology failing in the market because the user was unable to understand how to correctly use it.

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ecsh1
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Re: Does Sony force Sigma to disable OS in lens?
In reply to cplunk, Apr 26, 2013

The new 70-200 OS lens i just got is stabilized from Sigma. It gives you an on/off switch on the lens.

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cplunk
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Re: Does Sony force Sigma to disable OS in lens?
In reply to Amateur Sony Shooter, Apr 26, 2013

Amateur Sony Shooter wrote:

If you weight Sigma/Tamron lens for Canon (or Nikon) and Sony version, and if both weight the same chances are Sony version still have OS/VC built-in but the button is concealed - just a thought!

The OS/VC would "fight" with the IBIS and turn the image to crap.  As the OS/VC stabilizes the image the IBIS would continue to shift the sensor around. I've seen some test results on a web page someone around here posted. It wasn't good.

It think they wight about the same because all the bits that create the stabilization can't entirely be just removed without redesigning the entire lens, so they replace them with similar, but non stabilizing bits that just sit there, and weight a similar amount.

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brian14478
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Re: Does Sony force Sigma to disable OS in lens?
In reply to Adventsam, Apr 27, 2013

Adventsam wrote:

All new Sigma lens have Optical Stabilisation disabled, why? crazy.

Possibly it was sony marketing .."If you disable os we will not go about making compatability issues with your lenses no matter what the optical quality"?  I know of other sigmas where not only minolta/sony but also canon and nikon made 'issues' with lens compatability for sigma.

Many of their 'okay' lenses had no problems with functionality, but then a lens that out-performed the camera companies own offerings usually at a substantially lower price wouldnt stop down or auto-focus ect..  Alot of shooters(wasnt the first time) after the compatability problems with the a55/33 who had premium money in sigma lenses i am sure were looking to possibly 'bail' on sony.  How would sony keep  shooters with $1000's invested in glass when they didnt know that thier lenses were going to be compatable in future bodies?

....but now that i think of it, sigma can 'flash' new lenses but their are still many sigmas out there being used proffesionally and otherwise i suppose that cannot be flashed.

No idea really but it could be a  collective decision from sony and sigma to 'get along' and play nice with each other....same goes for canon/nikon, when sony is comming out with excellent glass(at a premium-and sigma can 'double-up on os/sss)...that can go an awful long way when it comes to proffesional photography and the overall dlsr/dlst market.- luring nikon canon shooters to sony*

Sony i feel is in it to compete with the best of the best in apsc and full-frame market....Yeah it sucks about os leaving sigma lenses on alpha bodies, but i think the trade -off of sss and alpha body and lenses now and in the future will be worth not being p-oed too much about. ???,brian

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dlkeller
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Wrong. You turn ISS OFF
In reply to cplunk, Apr 27, 2013

Then just use the in lens stabilization.  It gives you the choice of the preferred system so is no disadvantage at all.  Not getting the stabilization, yet paying the same price as the lenses for CanKon which have it is a slap in the face to Sony, Pentax and other systems in the same situation.

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OpticsEngineer
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Steady shot is better
In reply to Adventsam, Apr 27, 2013

I just tried out my Sigma 70-200 f/2.8 that has optical stablization just after sunset outdoors, photographing a distant cell phone tower.  (nice clean lines to look at)

f=200 shutter time 1/40th second ISO100.

Lens stabilization on, Sony body stablization off.    10 handheld pictures, 5 were good.  5 were bad.

Then lens stabilization off, Sony body stabilization on.   10 handheld pictures, 10 were good.

This is the same thing I got the last time I did this check.  So I always leave optical stablization off and Sony Steady Shot on.

It is nice having the stabilized view through the viewfinder with lens stablization turned on.   Maybe in bright sunshine with shorter shutter times it would make sense to do that.   But in reality, I never seem to bother with it.

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AarSee
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Attention : Pixel Peepers. Quiz here
In reply to Adventsam, Apr 27, 2013

Here is a test for all of you arm chair experts. Pixel peepers of the highest degree.

After hearing all of the statements in this thread about OS or SS being better,  I decided to test the theory using my Sigma 120-400 APO HSM OS lens.  It has the OS or I can switch it off and use Steadyshot, or I can switch them all off.

These shots were taken from a tripod, using 2 second shot mode, aimed at a copy of a test pattern, lite with my wireless flash.  All were cropped to approximately the same size, and uploaded to my gallery on Dpreview.

Your challenge, if you decide to accept it, is to pick out the four photos, and tell which one was:

All stabilization OFF

All stabilization ON ! (Oh My) BOTH on at the same time, on a tripod!

Super Steady Shot ON

Optical Stabilizer ON

They are posted here in NO particular order.

Photo A

Photo B

Photo C

Photo D

You can post your guesses if you like,  I will post the answers in a few days.

Good luck, and good eyesight.

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Rick

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