Canon is no. 1 for 10 straight years

Started Apr 26, 2013 | Discussions
MrScorpio
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Re: Bodies come and go, lenses stay...
In reply to Rick Knepper, Apr 27, 2013

...and I dont have much experience of Canon below 35 mm. I owned the 17-40L but really did not like it and sold it after a short time. Otherwise I think the ordinary consumer enjoys the somewhat cheaper Canon glass. There is really good quality in some reasonably priced Canon glass Like the 85/1.8 and 100 mm macro, not to speak about the 50/1.8. Much of the Canon glass for FF is cheaper and better than my m43 gear.

Rick Knepper wrote:

MrScorpio wrote:

In my view, it is the glass which is the strength of Canon. I am always surprised when people speak of shifting systems because of a camera body. The glass is what you are stuck with and really buy into.

I'm curious about this comment (against the backdrop that I am unfamiliar with any Canon lens longer than the 200/f2.8 II). It's long been common knowledge and my personal experience that Canon UW and UWA lenses were weakish in outer zone performance and there are gaps in the prime lineup. Recent releases are changing that there's still work left to be done.

By the way, I totally agree with your premise and IMO another good reason to consider using both brands (if one is so inclined to tote two cameras to begin with which I am).

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nuke12
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Re: Bodies come and go, lenses stay...
In reply to MrScorpio, Apr 27, 2013

MrScorpio wrote:

In my view, it is the glass which is the strength of Canon. I am always surprised when people speak of shifting systems because of a camera body. The glass is what you are stuck with and really buy into.

I agree and Canon screwed millions of people when they switched from the FD mount to the EF mount. Something not to be easily forgotten by many of us, who had thousands in nice FD glass.

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mlf123
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Re: Canon is no. 1 for 10 straight years
In reply to RedFox88, Apr 27, 2013

Look on the bright side...In Ireland/Europe it's almost $6.00 per US gallon and the walking concept didn't kick in yet!

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meland
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Re: Bodies come and go, lenses stay...
In reply to nuke12, Apr 27, 2013

nuke12 wrote:

MrScorpio wrote:

In my view, it is the glass which is the strength of Canon. I am always surprised when people speak of shifting systems because of a camera body. The glass is what you are stuck with and really buy into.

I agree and Canon screwed millions of people when they switched from the FD mount to the EF mount. Something not to be easily forgotten by many of us, who had thousands in nice FD glass.

Which you would still be using today, right?

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Dave Luttmann
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Re: Bodies come and go, lenses stay...
In reply to ultimitsu, Apr 27, 2013

ultimitsu wrote:

Rick Knepper wrote:

MrScorpio wrote:

In my view, it is the glass which is the strength of Canon. I am always surprised when people speak of shifting systems because of a camera body. The glass is what you are stuck with and really buy into.

I'm curious about this comment (against the backdrop that I am unfamiliar with any Canon lens longer than the 200/f2.8 II). It's long been common knowledge and my personal experience that Canon UW and UWA lenses were weakish in outer zone performance and there are gaps in the prime lineup. Recent releases are changing that there's still work left to be done.

below 100mm Nikon wins more in lenses of the same class, for example 14-24, 16-35 VR, 35 F1.4G, 50 F1.8G, 85 G1.8G.

From 100mm onwards Canon has a clear advantage over nikon counter part., for example 100 F2, 100L, 135L,  70-200II, 70-300L, 100-400L. In fact since telephoto shots more often than not are shot at mid-range ISO, canon's low ISO DR disadvantage is not so obvious. So peopel who shoot while life or action should really stick to Canon.

By the way, I totally agree with your premise and IMO another good reason to consider using both brands (if one is so inclined to tote two cameras to begin with which I am).

I agree.

Try the Nikon 105 DC.  One of the best lenses going.

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nuke12
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Re: Bodies come and go, lenses stay...
In reply to meland, Apr 27, 2013

meland wrote:

nuke12 wrote:

I agree and Canon screwed millions of people when they switched from the FD mount to the EF mount. Something not to be easily forgotten by many of us, who had thousands in nice FD glass.

Which you would still be using today, right?

I would be. I'm using some Nikon glass that came from back in that time. It works fine if you don't mind manual focus and using the light meter. Not everything has to be auto this and auto that. Good glass is still good glass.

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chironNYC
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Re: Service and quality!
In reply to Rick Knepper, Apr 27, 2013

Rick Knepper wrote:

leicaman wrote:

I made a HUGE mistake in buying a Nikon D600.  The IQ is fantastic... but the camera was a dustbin from the factory and Nikon customer service what little there is of it is poor beyond belief.

If Nikon had built a well-made D600 and had real customer service then Canon might need to worry but good product support is invaluable when purchasing this type of camera and Nikon just doesn't have a clue.

Not trying to minimize your experience especially since my dust experiences with Canon cameras do not involve straight out of the factory dust, but I just posted the message at this link to a reply below yours in the thread. Check it out beginning at No. 4.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/51365410

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Rick Knepper, photographer, non-professional, shooting for pleasure, check my profile for gear list and philosophy. TJ said, "Every generation needs a new revolution".

Hi Rick. I always read and enjoy your posts.

I think some of us are more exacting about some things and some are more exacting about others. We also use our equipment in different ways. So, our mileage on different brands and features may vary. I don't worry too much about dust when I change lenses, but I do want a camera that will work (including focusing accurately) when I pick it up and do so in a reliable way with non-quirky results (e.g. misfocuses, odd skin tones, or grease splattered on the sensor).

For my taste Canon delivers highly competent cameras. Sometimes they innovate (e.g., AF, FF, eye-controlled focus) and sometimes they forego a development that they think is either not ready for prime time or not truly useful to their target user or that creates more problems than it solves. I think this is why they have been in no hurry to introduce a 46 mpix FF, and why when--and actually, if--they do, it will work very reliably and predictably all the way through the photo production process. But my bet is they may not do it soon, and they will market it for specialized use at a high price if they do.

Sometimes Canon may even pull a feature that turns out not to work well enough and that thus constitutes a mistake in their design and product philosophy; this was the case with eye-controlled focus, which never worked quite as well on the EOS-3 as it should have to be fully satisfying to a user.  I think they take this conservative approach to innovation throughout their line and price points. They avoid gimmicks and they avoid stuffing a feature into a camera just to grab some attention.

Thus, their new mirrorless line is well beyond boring, at least so far. But it works reliably and predictably for what it does. Their new mini dslr ff is much more exciting to me, and I think represents this conservative approach to innovation in that it is an attempt to offer what mirrorless cameras offer (mainly small size) in a very reliable way with a complete set of features that are ready to use now (though I love my Sony NEX-7, and if that comes out in FF, watch out).

Canon's design and product philosophy includes innovation, but not at the cost of competence and reliability. For an indication of some of the problems with other design philosophies, which doubtless also have benefits that appeal to many people, take a look at this recent "midterm" report by Ming Thein, link below, on his experiences with the D800/800E. But Canon fits me well in terms of what I look for in a camera.

http://blog.mingthein.com/2012/10/27/nikon-d800e-midterm-report/

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ultimitsu
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Re: Bodies come and go, lenses stay...
In reply to Dave Luttmann, Apr 27, 2013

Dave Luttmann wrote:

ultimitsu wrote:

below 100mm Nikon wins more in lenses of the same class, for example 14-24, 16-35 VR, 35 F1.4G, 50 F1.8G, 85 G1.8G.

From 100mm onwards Canon has a clear advantage over nikon counter part., for example 100 F2, 100L, 135L,  70-200II, 70-300L, 100-400L. In fact since telephoto shots more often than not are shot at mid-range ISO, canon's low ISO DR disadvantage is not so obvious. So peopel who shoot while life or action should really stick to Canon.

Try the Nikon 105 DC.  One of the best lenses going.

105DC, and other fast telephoto lenses nikon made before later 2000s, all have rather terrible Longitudinal Chromatic Aberrations (by today's standard).

See how every thing is purple? Compare it to Canon 100 F2. The canon just as sharp but virtually no LoCA. half the price and you get an USM.

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=644&Camera=614&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=0&LensComp=118&CameraComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=0

Same thing with 135 F2. Nikon's LoCA is unbelievable.

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=646&Camera=614&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=0&LensComp=108&CameraComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=0

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aftab
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Re: Well. there you go.
In reply to Rick Knepper, Apr 28, 2013

Long and tortuous path, Rick. Things we do for our love of photography.

I started with Pentax ME Super and a fast 50mm prime in 1980. I loved that combo and learned photography with it. From many exciting experiences with it one stuck to my mind more than others; using shallow dof to isolate subject/point of interest and beauty of bokeh. During this time I had the opportunity to use Nikon F3 too from a good friend, I liked it very much. So, I planned, in future when it was time to get a 'real camera' it would be a Nikon F series camera.

But life is what happens to you when you are planning other things.

After becoming a doctor and after the death of Pentax I couldn't do photography for many years. Then many wildlife images in National Geographic (and similar) brought me be back to photography in 2003. I started with FZ series and in 2006 I was ready for a DSLR. So, I decided to get a Nikon. To my disappointment I discovered that Canon was The Man in wildlife photography, Nikon was a teenager (things have changed since then). Moreover Canon had 5D, Nikon didn't have an answer. With great reluctance and uncertainty I bought 5D, 100-400 and 24-70. Since then I bought many L lenses (two 1.2 primes for my shallow dof craziness) and upgraded 5D bodies. Never been disappointed with my equipment, they never were the limitation for my photography, I was.

My photography is about expression and storytelling. It is like a poem or painting where you try to feel and convey the inner meaning and beauty. Going beyond what you see or read. I am not a fan of postcard style landscapes or magazine style portraits. Edge to edge sharpness doesn't excite me, but interplay of light, shadow (not lifting), mood/atmosphere and composition do.

Anyways, I bought D600 (along with 24-85 kit lens and 14-24/2.8) several months ago because I always wanted to get a Nikon. I also wanted to use its great shadow lifting capabilities. Am I happy with it? That's another story.

This is a great time for photographers irrespective of the brand one uses. So, let's smile

A boatman in Vietnam

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qianp2k
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Re: Well. there you go.
In reply to aftab, Apr 28, 2013

aftab wrote:

Long and tortuous path, Rick. Things we do for our love of photography.

I started with Pentax ME Super and a fast 50mm prime in 1980. I loved that combo and learned photography with it. From many exciting experiences with it one stuck to my mind more than others; using shallow dof to isolate subject/point of interest and beauty of bokeh. During this time I had the opportunity to use Nikon F3 too from a good friend, I liked it very much. So, I planned, in future when it was time to get a 'real camera' it would be a Nikon F series camera.

But life is what happens to you when you are planning other things.

After becoming a doctor and after the death of Pentax I couldn't do photography for many years. Then many wildlife images in National Geographic (and similar) brought me be back to photography in 2003. I started with FZ series and in 2006 I was ready for a DSLR. So, I decided to get a Nikon. To my disappointment I discovered that Canon was The Man in wildlife photography, Nikon was a teenager (things have changed since then). Moreover Canon had 5D, Nikon didn't have an answer. With great reluctance and uncertainty I bought 5D, 100-400 and 24-70. Since then I bought many L lenses (two 1.2 primes for my shallow dof craziness) and upgraded 5D bodies. Never been disappointed with my equipment, they never were the limitation for my photography, I was.

My photography is about expression and storytelling. It is like a poem or painting where you try to feel and convey the inner meaning and beauty. Going beyond what you see or read. I am not a fan of postcard style landscapes or magazine style portraits. Edge to edge sharpness doesn't excite me, but interplay of light, shadow (not lifting), mood/atmosphere and composition do.

an interesting story

Anyways, I bought D600 (along with 24-85 kit lens and 14-24/2.8) several months ago because I always wanted to get a Nikon. I also wanted to use its great shadow lifting capabilities. Am I happy with it? That's another story.

please share with us this story from your experience.  You're one of those I believe will tell true stories

This is a great time for photographers irrespective of the brand one uses. So, let's smile

great shot, I like this one.  HDR look but impressive.

A boatman in Vietnam

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aftab
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Re: Well. there you go.
In reply to qianp2k, Apr 28, 2013

qianp2k wrote:

aftab wrote:

Long and tortuous path, Rick. Things we do for our love of photography.

I started with Pentax ME Super and a fast 50mm prime in 1980. I loved that combo and learned photography with it. From many exciting experiences with it one stuck to my mind more than others; using shallow dof to isolate subject/point of interest and beauty of bokeh. During this time I had the opportunity to use Nikon F3 too from a good friend, I liked it very much. So, I planned, in future when it was time to get a 'real camera' it would be a Nikon F series camera.

But life is what happens to you when you are planning other things.

After becoming a doctor and after the death of Pentax I couldn't do photography for many years. Then many wildlife images in National Geographic (and similar) brought me be back to photography in 2003. I started with FZ series and in 2006 I was ready for a DSLR. So, I decided to get a Nikon. To my disappointment I discovered that Canon was The Man in wildlife photography, Nikon was a teenager (things have changed since then). Moreover Canon had 5D, Nikon didn't have an answer. With great reluctance and uncertainty I bought 5D, 100-400 and 24-70. Since then I bought many L lenses (two 1.2 primes for my shallow dof craziness) and upgraded 5D bodies. Never been disappointed with my equipment, they never were the limitation for my photography, I was.

My photography is about expression and storytelling. It is like a poem or painting where you try to feel and convey the inner meaning and beauty. Going beyond what you see or read. I am not a fan of postcard style landscapes or magazine style portraits. Edge to edge sharpness doesn't excite me, but interplay of light, shadow (not lifting), mood/atmosphere and composition do.

an interesting story

Anyways, I bought D600 (along with 24-85 kit lens and 14-24/2.8) several months ago because I always wanted to get a Nikon. I also wanted to use its great shadow lifting capabilities. Am I happy with it? That's another story.

please share with us this story from your experience.  You're one of those I believe will tell true stories

Thanks.

I am not too sure about 'truth'. We have our own perspectives, we all are biased one way or the other. But here you go.

D600 is an excellent camera barring oil spots. Yeah, they started to show after few months.

In 99% of the time I don't see a difference between D600 and Canons if we consider pure IQ (resolution, color, noise etc). For my photographic style, I do better with 5D3, because it is simply a better camera with better responsiveness, better control, better interface and because I have more Canon lenses to play with (and pretend to be creative).

I was really hoping that Nikon will deliver in difficult DR. It didn't. It was better than Canon, but not good enough to obviate the need of filters or better technique. In situations where DR was not extreme, I could equally use Canon and Nikon.

If I had more Nikon lenses I am sure I will be happy with D600. At the moment I have no use for it. I am thinking of selling it, but I can't. I can't sell a camera with oil spots. I am stuck.

That's my story.

This is a great time for photographers irrespective of the brand one uses. So, let's smile

great shot, I like this one.  HDR look but impressive.

A boatman in Vietnam

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Rick Knepper
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Re: What's Sad
In reply to Schwany, Apr 28, 2013

Schwany wrote:

Sometimes I read what you have to say, but mostly not. I don't argue with or get that much out of the meaningless opinions of prolific pontificates. Nothing personal.

It's sad you had to take the conversation personal despite what you are claiming here.  You are blurting out whatever insult comes to mind without thinking it through. A very common happenstance on DPR.

Another disconnect in your logic: "prolific ponticates"? You have more total posts on DPR than I and half of mine were made in the Weekly Landscape Thread where I built people up with my comments.

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Rick Knepper
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Absolutely true.
In reply to chironNYC, Apr 28, 2013

chironNYC wrote:

Hi Rick. I always read and enjoy your posts.

I think some of us are more exacting about some things and some are more exacting about others. We also use our equipment in different ways. So, our mileage on different brands and features may vary. I don't worry too much about dust when I change lenses, but I do want a camera that will work (including focusing accurately) when I pick it up and do so in a reliable way with non-quirky results (e.g. misfocuses, odd skin tones, or grease splattered on the sensor).

You wrote some other good stuff but this goes to the core of the facts as I have observed them with the added bonus of you having written it better than I have or would have.

But, this disinformation campaign (to be diplomatic, it's actually much worse than that) run by a few rabid fanbois gets wearisome.

By the way, thanks for the kind words. Like I conduct my gear acquisitions, my goal in these forums to provide a balanced response to threads I see being taken sideways by fanbois or trolls. It's all fabulous equipment but with room to improve know what I mean?

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Rick Knepper
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Re: Well. there you go.
In reply to qianp2k, Apr 28, 2013

qianp2k wrote:

You're one of those I believe will tell true stories

Wow!! Negativity in the passive-aggressive motif. I mean, couldn't you have praised the OP without going negative?

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Dave Luttmann
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Re: Bodies come and go, lenses stay...
In reply to ultimitsu, Apr 28, 2013

ultimitsu wrote:

Dave Luttmann wrote:

ultimitsu wrote:

below 100mm Nikon wins more in lenses of the same class, for example 14-24, 16-35 VR, 35 F1.4G, 50 F1.8G, 85 G1.8G.

From 100mm onwards Canon has a clear advantage over nikon counter part., for example 100 F2, 100L, 135L,  70-200II, 70-300L, 100-400L. In fact since telephoto shots more often than not are shot at mid-range ISO, canon's low ISO DR disadvantage is not so obvious. So peopel who shoot while life or action should really stick to Canon.

Try the Nikon 105 DC.  One of the best lenses going.

105DC, and other fast telephoto lenses nikon made before later 2000s, all have rather terrible Longitudinal Chromatic Aberrations (by today's standard).

See how every thing is purple? Compare it to Canon 100 F2. The canon just as sharp but virtually no LoCA. half the price and you get an USM.

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=644&Camera=614&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=0&LensComp=118&CameraComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=0

Same thing with 135 F2. Nikon's LoCA is unbelievable.

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=646&Camera=614&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=0&LensComp=108&CameraComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=0

True...but the Nikkor is sharper, and has better control of bokeh quality than the Canon.  And CA fringing is easily corrected in post processing....lack of sharpness is not.

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qianp2k
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Re: Well. there you go.
In reply to Rick Knepper, Apr 28, 2013

Rick Knepper wrote:

qianp2k wrote:

You're one of those I believe will tell true stories

Wow!! Negativity in the passive-aggressive motif. I mean, couldn't you have praised the OP without going negative?

Not sure how you read it as there is no negative to OP.  What I said is what I meant.  From what I have seen so far 'Aftab' is not a fanboy of either Canon or Nikon.  So I trust him to tell his own true stories based on his own experiences which I believe he did honestly

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chironNYC
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Re: Absolutely true.
In reply to Rick Knepper, Apr 28, 2013

Rick Knepper wrote:

chironNYC wrote:

Hi Rick. I always read and enjoy your posts.

I think some of us are more exacting about some things and some are more exacting about others. We also use our equipment in different ways. So, our mileage on different brands and features may vary. I don't worry too much about dust when I change lenses, but I do want a camera that will work (including focusing accurately) when I pick it up and do so in a reliable way with non-quirky results (e.g. misfocuses, odd skin tones, or grease splattered on the sensor).

You wrote some other good stuff but this goes to the core of the facts as I have observed them with the added bonus of you having written it better than I have or would have.

But, this disinformation campaign (to be diplomatic, it's actually much worse than that) run by a few rabid fanbois gets wearisome.

By the way, thanks for the kind words. Like I conduct my gear acquisitions, my goal in these forums to provide a balanced response to threads I see being taken sideways by fanbois or trolls. It's all fabulous equipment but with room to improve know what I mean?

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Rick Knepper, photographer, non-professional, shooting for pleasure, check my profile for gear list and philosophy. TJ said, "Every generation needs a new revolution".

Thanks very much, Rick. I do think that one of the things that is easy to forget is that different things are important to different users. I am struggling with the issue of what is important to me as I try to choose between the Sigma 35 1.4 ART and the Canon 35mm f/2 IS. Though I must say that the new Samyang 24mm tilt/shift is making my wallet try to hide.

BTW, my post erroneously referenced a new small Canon ff--it is of course a smaller APS-C, to rival the mirrorless cameras out there. But I wouldn't be surprised, if the APS-C version  succeeds in the market, if it heralds a smaller ff dslr in the future.

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Scott Larson
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Re: Bodies come and go, lenses stay...
In reply to nuke12, Apr 29, 2013

nuke12 wrote:

I agree and Canon screwed millions of people when they switched from the FD mount to the EF mount. Something not to be easily forgotten by many of us, who had thousands in nice FD glass.

And many of us at the time got into photography by paying thousands for used FD lenses and cameras. They were still worth a lot of money. I hope you didn't throw yours in the garbage!

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sean lancaster
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Re: Bodies come and go, lenses stay...
In reply to Scott Larson, Apr 29, 2013

Scott Larson wrote:

nuke12 wrote:

I agree and Canon screwed millions of people when they switched from the FD mount to the EF mount. Something not to be easily forgotten by many of us, who had thousands in nice FD glass.

And many of us at the time got into photography by paying thousands for used FD lenses and cameras. They were still worth a lot of money. I hope you didn't throw yours in the garbage!

My backup camera to my Canon 6D is a Sony NEX 5N, which uses plenty of Canon FD lenses. I most often use the FDn 50/1.4. With focus peaking, those little lenses are terrific!

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