Canon is no. 1 for 10 straight years

Started Apr 26, 2013 | Discussions
Gearóid Ó Laoi, Garry Lee
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Re: Canon is no. 1 for 10 straight years
In reply to meland, Apr 26, 2013

meland wrote:

\he world is the Honda Accord (which is why I drive one).

Ah, but not everyone chooses their car simply on the basis of reliability.  Some might put driving pleasure above that particular parameter.

They might indeed. But how many have driven a Honda Accord? None of them who buy BMWs I'll wager. Marketing is very potent..

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meland
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Re: Canon is no. 1 for 10 straight years
In reply to Gearóid Ó Laoi, Garry Lee, Apr 26, 2013

Gearóid Ó Laoi, Garry Lee wrote:

meland wrote:

\he world is the Honda Accord (which is why I drive one).

Ah, but not everyone chooses their car simply on the basis of reliability.  Some might put driving pleasure above that particular parameter.

They might indeed. But how many have driven a Honda Accord? None of them who buy BMWs I'll wager. Marketing is very potent..

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Actually I have and if all you want is honest reliable transport then it's hard to beat.

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RedFox88
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Re: Canon is no. 1 for 10 straight years
In reply to nekrosoft13, Apr 26, 2013

nekrosoft13 wrote:

so many misguided people keep buying the same rebel for past 3-5 years.

No one is forced to buy anything.  Why do "so many misguided people" keep buying gallon after gallon of gasoline at $3.80 instead of riding a bike or buying an electric car?!

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aftab
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Re: Based on their own survey?
In reply to Rick Knepper, Apr 26, 2013

Rick Knepper wrote:

aftab wrote:

http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/about_canon?pageKeyCode=pressreldetail&docId=0901e02480891911

A great feat, I must say. It has done this by a combination of making excellent equipment, understanding the needs of photographers of all level, great customer service and clever marketing. Lately it has been criticized for not being innovative. Yet, Canon seems to know what it is doing.

How long you think Canon will maintain its top position?

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I'm not here to criticize Canon because half my kit is made up of Canon products. But, Canon may be number one today for many reasons that have nothing to do with the best current product for the market or current innovation.

For example, remember that Canon undercut the 35mm lens market for years (with fairly decent lenses if you were into telephoto styles) building a large base on extremely competitively priced lenses.

We all know how resistant uneducated photgraphers are to making changes in their kit. Fear & ignorance are rampant among the herd (no matter the brand actually).

This may be reversed sooner than later if Canon continues the trend of higher lens prices (and higher prices generally) making Nikon look like the budget SLR company these days. Folks previously afraid to change because of uncertainty about selling their equipemnt or learning a new system may be more motivated to jump off if they can't afford to shoot Canon.

I don't know how innovative the SLR biz can be since it seems like a mature industry (other than in sensors where, in my opinion, no manufacturer has it right yet) but Canon persists in sticking with the smallish incremental update model & the use of previous or lateral tech in new releases while Nikon seems to go for broke in all markets. Any significant update Canon might release these days kicking and screaming seems to be a result of being drug by Nikon.

It is obvious that Canon listened to a very small and very wrong group of people in their customer surveys. Before they can ask/survey a person about digital imaging issues, that person ought to understand digital imaging issues.

There are footnotes in the article suggesting that this is a Canon survey. Since there could be bias built into such a survey, it would be nice to know the protocols used in conducting the survey and the pool from which the surveyees were pulled. It would also be instructive to know the percentages by year. For example, if the percentage difference between Canon and the next competitor was 10% in 2003 (the year of the first affordable DSLR - the D300/Digital Rebel) and the percentage is .1 in 2012, that tells a different story.

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Rick Knepper, photographer, non-professional, shooting for pleasure, check my profile for gear list and philosophy. TJ said, "Every generation needs a new revolution".

Yeah, it was a Canon survey. But it is highly unlikely that they will simply make up such a claim.

Few months ago a friend and his wife were planning to travel overseas. They wanted to buy a new camera to take 'good pictures'. Like most common folks they never used anything other than P&S and cellphone for taking pictures. They asked for my advice. I advised them to get a superzoom. They wanted to know about entry level DSLR deals from Canon and Nikon and if the pictures would be better if they bought a DSLR.  I told them the pictures would be better from DSLRs, but they will have to carry at least two lenses (I explained focal lengths) and the price would be higher. They ended up buying a rebel with two kit lenses. I asked them why they didn't get a Nikon. They said for the same money they got two lenses from Canon as opposed to one from Nikon.

I feel that this kind of buyers constitute the majority of DSLR buyers. They want to take good pictures (better than P&S) without expending too much money. They use auto or scene modes, don't need to understand ISO or DR or other intricacies. They don't need critical sharpness, just sharp enough is enough. They like punchy vibrant colors. For them Canon is not more expensive than other brands.

The market becomes more complex if we consider more conscious photographers with greater needs. The entry of mirrorless has made things more unpredictable. But it would be sufficient to say that in this market segment (mid level to professional) Canon has got exactly what people want. Competition will have to do more than two extra stops of DR or higher MP to dislodge Canon from #1 position.

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aftab
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Re: Based on their own survey?
In reply to aftab, Apr 26, 2013

Clarification: I didn't mean to say that all rebel users are like my friend. Of course there are rebel users who know a lot about photography (some more than users of higher level equipment). They buy or keep using rebel because of monetary considerations.

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rebel99
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Re: Canon is no. 1 for 10 straight years
In reply to Schwany, Apr 27, 2013

Schwany wrote:

Gearóid Ó Laoi, Garry Lee wrote:

As regards Positioning, as mentioned above by Photokhan...

BMW are one of the most admired companies in the world and are THE most admired company in Ireland, apparently.

How about the cars though? They are not among the top ten for reliability. The No.1 in this part of the world is the Honda Accord (which is why I drive one).

It shows the power of marketing though.

It's like the Canon 1D mark iv, which I have myself. Everyone knows that the AF if fantastic, except that it isn't. It's pretty good but not fantastic.. The AF on the 1Dsiii and the 1Dsii is just as good.

My 1DsMkII is far better than my 1DMkIV. Could just be a one off situation or the way I use the cameras, but is smokes the new body at everything focus related.

that is like saying model T Ford automobiles beat the latest models in bumper test, which is true but what does that really mean? and i find your statement " My 1DsMkII is far better than my 1DMkIV" seems a bit exaggerated, don't you think so?

Regarding BMW. The motorcycles are actually good, and built well. (insert list of BMW motorcycles I've owned over the years here) I have relatives with the cars, and they are not happy about maintaining them after warranty, since that's when expensive things really start to break.

BMW's success is marketing and design, which translates into prestige for the owner, sort of like Apple, except without the iPod. he he

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chironNYC
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Re: Service and quality!
In reply to leicaman, Apr 27, 2013

leicaman wrote:

I made a HUGE mistake in buying a Nikon D600.  The IQ is fantastic... but the camera was a dustbin from the factory and Nikon customer service what little there is of it is poor beyond belief.

If Nikon had built a well-made D600 and had real customer service then Canon might need to worry but good product support is invaluable when purchasing this type of camera and Nikon just doesn't have a clue.

I think that Canon does not produce a camera or lens until they have a firm handle on its design and manufacture. When they do have a problem, they usually address it effectively and quickly and satisfy their customers. Their products have a very low flakiness or shoddiness factor, something that Nikon is having a lot of trouble with lately (as do some other manufacturers).

While they are often innovative in design, they are conservative in what they actually will sell to customers--there is an emphasis on things that work reliably and technologies that can be trusted.

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Rick Knepper
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In reply to Schwany, Apr 27, 2013

Schwany wrote:

Rick Knepper wrote:


We all know how resistant uneducated photgraphers are to making changes in their kit. Fear & ignorance are rampant among the herd (no matter the brand actually).

Some of those uneducated photographers could probably spell photographers correctly. How's the weather up there in that ivory tower?

I think anyone who has read much of what I've had to say knows I know how to spell photographer and knows this is a simple typo. Can you spell Ad Hominem?

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Paul B Jones
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Happy with Canon
In reply to aftab, Apr 27, 2013

I have a nice Canon kit that brings me great joy. But, I suspect if I had stumbled on Nikon first I would be equally happy.

Those big white telephotos do look a lot better than that generic black though

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Rick Knepper
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Re: Based on their own survey?
In reply to aftab, Apr 27, 2013

aftab wrote:

Rick Knepper wrote:

aftab wrote:

http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/about_canon?pageKeyCode=pressreldetail&docId=0901e02480891911

A great feat, I must say. It has done this by a combination of making excellent equipment, understanding the needs of photographers of all level, great customer service and clever marketing. Lately it has been criticized for not being innovative. Yet, Canon seems to know what it is doing.

How long you think Canon will maintain its top position?

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Travel with passion.
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I'm not here to criticize Canon because half my kit is made up of Canon products. But, Canon may be number one today for many reasons that have nothing to do with the best current product for the market or current innovation.

For example, remember that Canon undercut the 35mm lens market for years (with fairly decent lenses if you were into telephoto styles) building a large base on extremely competitively priced lenses.

We all know how resistant uneducated photgraphers are to making changes in their kit. Fear & ignorance are rampant among the herd (no matter the brand actually).

This may be reversed sooner than later if Canon continues the trend of higher lens prices (and higher prices generally) making Nikon look like the budget SLR company these days. Folks previously afraid to change because of uncertainty about selling their equipemnt or learning a new system may be more motivated to jump off if they can't afford to shoot Canon.

I don't know how innovative the SLR biz can be since it seems like a mature industry (other than in sensors where, in my opinion, no manufacturer has it right yet) but Canon persists in sticking with the smallish incremental update model & the use of previous or lateral tech in new releases while Nikon seems to go for broke in all markets. Any significant update Canon might release these days kicking and screaming seems to be a result of being drug by Nikon.

It is obvious that Canon listened to a very small and very wrong group of people in their customer surveys. Before they can ask/survey a person about digital imaging issues, that person ought to understand digital imaging issues.

There are footnotes in the article suggesting that this is a Canon survey. Since there could be bias built into such a survey, it would be nice to know the protocols used in conducting the survey and the pool from which the surveyees were pulled. It would also be instructive to know the percentages by year. For example, if the percentage difference between Canon and the next competitor was 10% in 2003 (the year of the first affordable DSLR - the D300/Digital Rebel) and the percentage is .1 in 2012, that tells a different story.

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Rick Knepper, photographer, non-professional, shooting for pleasure, check my profile for gear list and philosophy. TJ said, "Every generation needs a new revolution".

Yeah, it was a Canon survey. But it is highly unlikely that they will simply make up such a claim.

I wouldn't think so either.

I don't think the statement that they've been No. 1 for 10 years has any value without knowing the percentage changes year to year. I mean, Avis has made money by the bucket loads being No. 2.

Another question occurred to me. Why does Canon need a survey to determine market share? Can't sales figures determine that? Surely Nikon releases their numbers.

Few months ago a friend and his wife were planning to travel overseas. They wanted to buy a new camera to take 'good pictures'. Like most common folks they never used anything other than P&S and cellphone for taking pictures. They asked for my advice. I advised them to get a superzoom. They wanted to know about entry level DSLR deals from Canon and Nikon and if the pictures would be better if they bought a DSLR.  I told them the pictures would be better from DSLRs, but they will have to carry at least two lenses (I explained focal lengths) and the price would be higher. They ended up buying a rebel with two kit lenses. I asked them why they didn't get a Nikon. They said for the same money they got two lenses from Canon as opposed to one from Nikon.

I feel that this kind of buyers constitute the majority of DSLR buyers. They want to take good pictures (better than P&S) without expending too much money. They use auto or scene modes, don't need to understand ISO or DR or other intricacies. They don't need critical sharpness, just sharp enough is enough. They like punchy vibrant colors. For them Canon is not more expensive than other brands.

The market becomes more complex if we consider more conscious photographers with greater needs. The entry of mirrorless has made things more unpredictable. But it would be sufficient to say that in this market segment (mid level to professional) Canon has got exactly what people want. Competition will have to do more than two extra stops of DR or higher MP to dislodge Canon from #1 position.

You could substitute the name Nikon for Canon in this story and it would fit 1000s of Nikon success stories too which wouldn't prove Nikon is the best or No. 1 or whatever.

Luckily for me, I have a mindset that I believe allows me to judge these tools with less emotion and more objectivity. Also beneficial to me: I shoot with two cameras (regardless of brand) which allowed me to "cross-over" with my 2nd camera and try Nikon. Very glad I did.

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aftab
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Re: Based on their own survey?
In reply to Rick Knepper, Apr 27, 2013

Rick Knepper wrote:

aftab wrote:

Rick Knepper wrote:

aftab wrote:

http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/about_canon?pageKeyCode=pressreldetail&docId=0901e02480891911

A great feat, I must say. It has done this by a combination of making excellent equipment, understanding the needs of photographers of all level, great customer service and clever marketing. Lately it has been criticized for not being innovative. Yet, Canon seems to know what it is doing.

How long you think Canon will maintain its top position?

-- hide signature --

Life is short.
Travel with passion.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/catch45/

I'm not here to criticize Canon because half my kit is made up of Canon products. But, Canon may be number one today for many reasons that have nothing to do with the best current product for the market or current innovation.

For example, remember that Canon undercut the 35mm lens market for years (with fairly decent lenses if you were into telephoto styles) building a large base on extremely competitively priced lenses.

We all know how resistant uneducated photgraphers are to making changes in their kit. Fear & ignorance are rampant among the herd (no matter the brand actually).

This may be reversed sooner than later if Canon continues the trend of higher lens prices (and higher prices generally) making Nikon look like the budget SLR company these days. Folks previously afraid to change because of uncertainty about selling their equipemnt or learning a new system may be more motivated to jump off if they can't afford to shoot Canon.

I don't know how innovative the SLR biz can be since it seems like a mature industry (other than in sensors where, in my opinion, no manufacturer has it right yet) but Canon persists in sticking with the smallish incremental update model & the use of previous or lateral tech in new releases while Nikon seems to go for broke in all markets. Any significant update Canon might release these days kicking and screaming seems to be a result of being drug by Nikon.

It is obvious that Canon listened to a very small and very wrong group of people in their customer surveys. Before they can ask/survey a person about digital imaging issues, that person ought to understand digital imaging issues.

There are footnotes in the article suggesting that this is a Canon survey. Since there could be bias built into such a survey, it would be nice to know the protocols used in conducting the survey and the pool from which the surveyees were pulled. It would also be instructive to know the percentages by year. For example, if the percentage difference between Canon and the next competitor was 10% in 2003 (the year of the first affordable DSLR - the D300/Digital Rebel) and the percentage is .1 in 2012, that tells a different story.

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Rick Knepper, photographer, non-professional, shooting for pleasure, check my profile for gear list and philosophy. TJ said, "Every generation needs a new revolution".

Yeah, it was a Canon survey. But it is highly unlikely that they will simply make up such a claim.

I wouldn't think so either.

I don't think the statement that they've been No. 1 for 10 years has any value without knowing the percentage changes year to year. I mean, Avis has made money by the bucket loads being No. 2.

Another question occurred to me. Why does Canon need a survey to determine market share? Can't sales figures determine that? Surely Nikon releases their numbers.

Sales numbers for at least last few years are available from independent sources and Canon has been #1 in those years according to them.

Few months ago a friend and his wife were planning to travel overseas. They wanted to buy a new camera to take 'good pictures'. Like most common folks they never used anything other than P&S and cellphone for taking pictures. They asked for my advice. I advised them to get a superzoom. They wanted to know about entry level DSLR deals from Canon and Nikon and if the pictures would be better if they bought a DSLR.  I told them the pictures would be better from DSLRs, but they will have to carry at least two lenses (I explained focal lengths) and the price would be higher. They ended up buying a rebel with two kit lenses. I asked them why they didn't get a Nikon. They said for the same money they got two lenses from Canon as opposed to one from Nikon.

I feel that this kind of buyers constitute the majority of DSLR buyers. They want to take good pictures (better than P&S) without expending too much money. They use auto or scene modes, don't need to understand ISO or DR or other intricacies. They don't need critical sharpness, just sharp enough is enough. They like punchy vibrant colors. For them Canon is not more expensive than other brands.

The market becomes more complex if we consider more conscious photographers with greater needs. The entry of mirrorless has made things more unpredictable. But it would be sufficient to say that in this market segment (mid level to professional) Canon has got exactly what people want. Competition will have to do more than two extra stops of DR or higher MP to dislodge Canon from #1 position.

You could substitute the name Nikon for Canon in this story and it would fit 1000s of Nikon success stories too which wouldn't prove Nikon is the best or No. 1 or whatever.

Surely. The point I was trying to make was that although Canon seems to be becoming pricier, in the segment where most DSLRs are sold they are competitive.

Luckily for me, I have a mindset that I believe allows me to judge these tools with less emotion and more objectivity. Also beneficial to me: I shoot with two cameras (regardless of brand) which allowed me to "cross-over" with my 2nd camera and try Nikon. Very glad I did.

Many years ago (maybe end of 90s) I came across an ad on the back cover of Newsweek magazine. It said something along this line, 60% of all pictures in this magazine were taken with a Nikon. So, just because Canon is #1 now, it doesn't mean that it will be in near future too. But I feel that short of something groundbreaking (as happened with film to digital shift), it will be very difficult to dislodge Canon from dominating DSLR market.

Most people tend to become brand loyal for all sorts of reasons. Some make sense, some don't. We are complicated beings. Psychological attachment and loyalty to living and non-living things are built into our inner self. But most important reason for brand loyalty always been that people like the products from a particular brand for the money they pay.

BTW, I have a D600 too. I want technology to progress and all cameras to do better. But I will never like it if another brand comes up with something that is significantly better than Canon. I want to use products better than or as good as other products, not inferior. Brand loyalty? Maybe.

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Gearóid Ó Laoi, Garry Lee
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Re: Canon is no. 1 for 10 straight years
In reply to rebel99, Apr 27, 2013

rebel99 wrote:

My 1DsMkII is far better than my 1DMkIV. Could just be a one off situation or the way I use the cameras, but is smokes the new body at everything focus related.

that is like saying model T Ford automobiles beat the latest models in bumper test, which is true but what does that really mean? and i find your statement " My 1DsMkII is far better than my 1DMkIV" seems a bit exaggerated, don't you think so?

It may not be though. When I first got into sports photography the 1DSii was the faster of my two cameras, the other being the 1DS. I also had an Olympus E3 which was useless for sports.

I found the 1DSii perfect for sports except its max FPS was 4. Autofocus wise, it was really good and I'm not sure that it wasn't better in that regard than the 1Div.

I've tried all kinds of permutations with the AF of the 1Div. Some people have different settings but mine are all tuned to running and athletics. I also now use my 1Ds3 body for that as it's underused otherwise. It's certainly not less good than the1Div (apart from 5fps)

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Rick Knepper
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Well. there you go.
In reply to aftab, Apr 27, 2013

aftab wrote:

BTW, I have a D600 too. I want technology to progress and all cameras to do better. But I will never like it if another brand comes up with something that is significantly better than Canon. I want to use products better than or as good as other products, not inferior. Brand loyalty? Maybe.

Obviously, there is a reason for you to own Nikon and it doesn't seem to matter who is number one. It's basically my point (other than the fact that we don’t really know anything about the statistical data in these surveys except what benefits Canon's image - understandable since they are a commercial concern and not likely to publish negative findings. If their hold on No. 1 has been slipping in recent years, that data will never see the light of day – not saying it is slipping).

By the way, did you get into DSLRs through Canon and branch to Nikon or the other way around? Not really wanting to know about any film history before that. IMO, digital made newbies out of seasoned photographers to varying degrees.

My reasoning and path to Nikon evolved over time. (I’m discussing this with you but I am also adding clarifications in case newbies happen to be reading this.)

1.) Obtained the 5D & 24-105 in 2005 and after several photo trips in early 2006, determined that FF put a strain on the 24-105 around the edges and corners (and the rest of my Canon UW and UWA lenses for that matter). This was the opposite of why I signed up for FF.

1a.) As far as I could tell in 2005, Nikon itself and its customer/fanboi base claimed they would never go FF so it I didn’t give this company or products even a cursory look.

2.) Trying to get sharper images across the entire frame, I got into alternative lenses (nearly all primes) and adapters for a period buying a 10-15 year old Zeiss Contax 21mm in late 2006 (still the most expensive lens I've ever purchased - driven up in price on the Used Market due to demand by Canon shooters tired of mushy corners). Then, buying all sorts of old, discontinued lenses such as Olympus and Leica (check my profile for others). This experience really schooled me on how poor Canon UW and UWA primes and zooms performed in the outer zones and how small and light a lens can be.

3.) Began buying the new Zeiss ZF lineup of lenses made for the Nikon mount but adapted them to my Canon cameras.

4.) Grew tired of the dust issue in my DSLR cameras (2007-08ish) and wanted to limit the number of lens and adapter changes in the field and/or the length of time during a lens/adapter change whereby the cavity of the camera is exposed to the elements. My first stab at this was to purchase an adapter for every lens I owned to avoid the extra time it took to remove and mount the adapter during a lens change. That was a bunch of lenses and adapters back then. I could only afford this because prices for adapters plunged due to eBay sellers. With AF confirm chips, it was doable but the quality of the adapters varied (there are several issues to consider and watch out when using adapters but that conversation is outside of the scope of this post).

5.) My 2nd stab at reducing the dust issue was to go with two cameras reducing the need to switch lenses as often. Dust was not the only reason to go with two cameras. I bought a 5D2 and decided not to sell the 5D but use it and the 5D2 side by side. Also, two cameras with one having a zoom mounted helped avoid lost opportunities through chaotic lens changes and is slightly less heavy overall to carrying one camera and enough lenses to cover expected needs.

6.) In the summer of 2007 just before buying my first 5D2, Nikon released the D700. In Aug 2007, I purchased that camera and the 14-24G believing that combo would relieve the issues Canon UW and UWA lenses had at that time and I could embark on my plan for a dual platform system. Also, I could get rid of the adapters for my Zeiss ZF lenses. Well, during my return period, Canon announced the 5D2 and as I needed 21 MPs more than I needed the 14-24G, I returned the D700/14-24G but not before I determined that that combo was pretty awesome, something that stuck in my mind.

7.) The 24 MP D3x was also announced later that year but I didn’t give the camera 2nd thought due to its ridiculous pricing.

8.) Sometime thereafter, on a photo trip to Zion and Bryce NPs, during an attempted lens change, my Contax Zeiss got stuck on the camera. I had to wait until I got back to base and perform some surgery. At that point, I was through with adapters although it would take several years to sell off those lenses and replace them with appropriate lenses with Canon mounts. I still have the Zeiss and the Leica R 28mm because they are good enough that dealing with adapters is an acceptable hindrance.

9.) In 2009ish, I sold the 5D and bought my 2nd 5D2.

10.) The only way to get rid of adapters and keep my Zeiss ZF lenses was to go with a Nikon camera. I began tracking prices of the D3x on B&H and eBay used. The D700 was no longer a consideration because after using 21 MPs, there’s no going back to 12 MPs. Why would I have sold my 5D? My target price for a D3x was sub-$6000 and the closer to $5000 the better. Finally, in early 2011, used prices hit my BUY target and I purchased a D3x. Soon after, I also the 14-24G and 24-70G from Amazon.

11.) My dream setup held for a year until the D800 & the 24-70 II were released.

12.) After it became clear Canon would not be competing in the hi-res arena in 2012 and 2013, I purchased a D800E in late 2012.

13.) I’m waiting for Canon to re-commit to a market they once dominated, but I am not desperate to buy because I am willing to go outside of the brand to find the features and performance I desire. Canon will really have to Bring It if they want to compete against the D800E which by the way, isn’t a magic bullet for excellent photography. One still has to know how to operate a DSLR.

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Rick Knepper, photographer, non-professional, shooting for pleasure, check my profile for gear list and philosophy. TJ said, "Every generation needs a new revolution".

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Rick Knepper
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Re: Service and quality!
In reply to leicaman, Apr 27, 2013

leicaman wrote:

I made a HUGE mistake in buying a Nikon D600.  The IQ is fantastic... but the camera was a dustbin from the factory and Nikon customer service what little there is of it is poor beyond belief.

If Nikon had built a well-made D600 and had real customer service then Canon might need to worry but good product support is invaluable when purchasing this type of camera and Nikon just doesn't have a clue.

Not trying to minimize your experience especially since my dust experiences with Canon cameras do not involve straight out of the factory dust, but I just posted the message at this link to a reply below yours in the thread. Check it out beginning at No. 4.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/51365410

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Rick Knepper, photographer, non-professional, shooting for pleasure, check my profile for gear list and philosophy. TJ said, "Every generation needs a new revolution".

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MrScorpio
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Bodies come and go, lenses stay...
In reply to aftab, Apr 27, 2013

In my view, it is the glass which is the strength of Canon. I am always surprised when people speak of shifting systems because of a camera body. The glass is what you are stuck with and really buy into.

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ultimitsu
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Re: Canon is no. 1 for 10 straight years
In reply to aftab, Apr 27, 2013

aftab wrote:

Lately it has been criticized for not being innovative. Yet, Canon seems to know what it is doing.

Canon is not "not being innovative", it is just not being innovative in areas that gets the most discussions in a forum. Over the past several years Canon has been at a stand still at improving sensors but has done a lot in other areas. for example the new STM line lenses have been getting a lot of praises for being fast and quiet. The only competitor has anything similar is Panasonic with their video focused lenses. Canon's AF programming has also improved a lot, every lens released after 70-300L seem to have a lot more accurate hits than older stuff.

How long you think Canon will maintain its top position?

Canon still maintains superiority in PDAF, telephoto lenses and customer service.Short term I do not think anyone will surpass canon in Telephoto lenses or customer service.  long  term is up to everyone's guess. It was only until recently Nikon got terrible reputation for their customer care so these things can turn  pretty fast.

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Rick Knepper
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Re: Bodies come and go, lenses stay...
In reply to MrScorpio, Apr 27, 2013

MrScorpio wrote:

In my view, it is the glass which is the strength of Canon. I am always surprised when people speak of shifting systems because of a camera body. The glass is what you are stuck with and really buy into.

I'm curious about this comment (against the backdrop that I am unfamiliar with any Canon lens longer than the 200/f2.8 II). It's long been common knowledge and my personal experience that Canon UW and UWA lenses were weakish in outer zone performance and there are gaps in the prime lineup. Recent releases are changing that there's still work left to be done.

By the way, I totally agree with your premise and IMO another good reason to consider using both brands (if one is so inclined to tote two cameras to begin with which I am).

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Rick Knepper, photographer, non-professional, shooting for pleasure, check my profile for gear list and philosophy. TJ said, "Every generation needs a new revolution".

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ultimitsu
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Re: Canon is no. 1 for 10 straight years
In reply to Gearóid Ó Laoi, Garry Lee, Apr 27, 2013

Gearóid Ó Laoi, Garry Lee wrote:

How long you think Canon will maintain its top position?

As long as it doesn't listen to some of the people on Dpreview.com

Is there something very special about DPreview that it only draws certain type of people? Is that why you are hear too?

There was all this moaning about Nikon having 36mp and Canon "only 18" when the 1D-X came out.

D800 does not compete with 1DX, D4 does, which has less MP than 1DX.

Since then there's been a deluge of complaints about various aspects of the D800

So were the complaints about 5D3 - lack of DR, minimal improvement in IQ in all aspects, lack of spot meter outside centre point, inability to see which AF point is tracking subject, light leak etc.

It is not that 5D3 was problem free, 5D3 got them fixed fairly quickly (or people just accepted that is what 5D3 is - DR liminitation for example) while Nikon took a lot longer to get D800 left side AF fixed.

and nothing but endless praise for the 1D-x.

Not much complaints about D4 either.

You see, there are those who only think of resolution, sharpness and "blowing out of the water", and there are those who know what's important in a camera.

And they all went out bought a 1DX?

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ultimitsu
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Re: Bodies come and go, lenses stay...
In reply to Rick Knepper, Apr 27, 2013

Rick Knepper wrote:

MrScorpio wrote:

In my view, it is the glass which is the strength of Canon. I am always surprised when people speak of shifting systems because of a camera body. The glass is what you are stuck with and really buy into.

I'm curious about this comment (against the backdrop that I am unfamiliar with any Canon lens longer than the 200/f2.8 II). It's long been common knowledge and my personal experience that Canon UW and UWA lenses were weakish in outer zone performance and there are gaps in the prime lineup. Recent releases are changing that there's still work left to be done.

below 100mm Nikon wins more in lenses of the same class, for example 14-24, 16-35 VR, 35 F1.4G, 50 F1.8G, 85 G1.8G.

From 100mm onwards Canon has a clear advantage over nikon counter part., for example 100 F2, 100L, 135L,  70-200II, 70-300L, 100-400L. In fact since telephoto shots more often than not are shot at mid-range ISO, canon's low ISO DR disadvantage is not so obvious. So peopel who shoot while life or action should really stick to Canon.

By the way, I totally agree with your premise and IMO another good reason to consider using both brands (if one is so inclined to tote two cameras to begin with which I am).

I agree.

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Schwany
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What's Sad
In reply to Rick Knepper, Apr 27, 2013

Rick Knepper wrote:

Schwany wrote:

Rick Knepper wrote:


We all know how resistant uneducated photgraphers are to making changes in their kit. Fear & ignorance are rampant among the herd (no matter the brand actually).

Some of those uneducated photographers could probably spell photographers correctly. How's the weather up there in that ivory tower?

I think anyone who has read much of what I've had to say knows I know how to spell photographer and knows this is a simple typo. Can you spell Ad Hominem?

But wouldn't a superior intellect such as yours never make mistakes? What's sad is that statement of yours indicates you (the we) think you are actually superior to others that don't think along the same lines as you.

Sometimes I read what you have to say, but mostly not. I don't argue with or get that much out of the meaningless opinions of prolific pontificates. Nothing personal.

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