Pentax China Confirms FF DSLR and Pro APS-C body

Started Apr 25, 2013 | Discussions
il_alexk
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Ricoh style Interchangeable FF lens mount?
In reply to oklaphotog, Apr 26, 2013

Ricoh style interchangeable mount? Makes sense to me:

  1. The K-mount FF lens lien si mostly discontinued; Pentax need some time to design the full product line of FF glass
  2. Therefore, Pentax can start with a Leica mount adapter to get things moving and to get good reviews
  3. K-mount adapter would be a good start for those that still do have old Pentax FF gems
  4. More K-mount FF lenses can be added later

Sounds as a good plan to me...

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Robert Daley
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Re: Ricoh style Interchangeable FF lens mount?
In reply to il_alexk, Apr 26, 2013

Hope not...

If dumping the K-mount is "the plan" for FF - then my plan is to consider the Nikon D800 way more seriously.

Dumping the K-mount would be a real betrayal. I've owned and used Pentax gear exclusively since the 1980's.

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il_alexk
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I don't think it is "dumping the K-mount"
In reply to Robert Daley, Apr 26, 2013

Robert Daley wrote:

Dumping the K-mount would be a real betrayal. I've owned and used Pentax gear exclusively since the 1980's.

I assume them to come out with both Leica and K-mounts at the same time. This should enable the FF market for Pentax even without waiting for Pentax 24-70, 70-200, 100-300 Pro-grade glass that will undoubtedly follow in the upcoming years.

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Jim in Hudson
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Re: Why would he?
In reply to Zvonimir Tosic, Apr 26, 2013

Zvonimir Tosic wrote:

Jim in Hudson wrote:

...

  • your own judgment (based on personal prejudices, and no sales data of any kind)
  • or the answer from the Pentax Ricoh official, the only person that can indeed give a correct answer? (who has all sales data of all kinds

... and who provided no sales data of any kind.

Why would he do that?

To satisfy your curiosity? And what would any number he provided mean to anyone? Because we are lacking important internal knowledge.

On the other hand, why would he lie in such a way? He might have said "the camera sold just as expected". But to claim that demand was higher than the production plan .. well, it's very unreasonable from us to call him a liar.

But his answer is now much more valuable. Why?

So far, no one else but Pentax Ricoh knew the exact purpose of the K-01. So any number of units sold we may get is meaningless. Camera was so unusual a product that it doesn't seem to be "the founding father" of any specific, well thought of camera category.

It looked more like a test project, a camera designed to attract attention, turn heads, see what people react to, and for that, a limited production was designated, lifespan, and cost capped from the beginning. If the demand exceeded the supply, that may as well mean that — K-01 was only a test project, sorry folks.

If its purpose was to test the design, some specs, some tech and styling details, and based on responses gathered apply that data to the upcoming new line of cameras (which is under development in the meantime), to sacrifice one model instead of a whole line makes much more sense.

You're talking in circles now.  You claim only Pentax know the answers but you keep on throwing out what you think the answers are.

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sfa1966
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Re: Pentax China Confirms FF DSLR and Pro APS-C body
In reply to oklaphotog, Apr 26, 2013

You lost me at "China" ...

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sfa

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breeze_of_wind
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Re: A little hint here, periods of quiet there, now another little hint
In reply to oklaphotog, Apr 26, 2013

This is getting awfully tired.  Rumors from China now get us all excited.  As a small company I thought Pentax had the potential to be nimble and quick.  It now seems they are at best at being slow and obtuse. A sad day.

John

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solarider
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Translation of interview
In reply to solarider, Apr 26, 2013
-----------------------------------------
** content in () is something I added from the way they talk, to complete the sentence. **
 targets towards a specific market, it targets professionals. On the other hand, Nikon D800 doesn't have a clear market placement, thus the effect is minor.645DA: PENTAX 
A:宾得645D是一款定位非常明确的机器,它针对专业人群而设计。尼康D800高像素单反相机则没有明确的定位,对于宾得645D的冲击并不大。
Q: In professional segment, did high pixel count Nikon D800 affect the sale of the PENTAX 645D?
Q:宾得645D在专业领域的市场份额是否有收到来自尼康D800高像素全幅单反的冲击?
A: A reporter asked me about FF DSLR two years ago as well. I can now say that PENTAX is currently developing a FF DSLR, and it will be a unique FF camera. 
A:2年前已有记者问过我关于全画幅单反相机的事情。我现在可以说,宾得的全画幅单反相机已在研发之中,并会是一款与众不同的全画幅。
Q: Is PENTAX currently working on FF DSLR development?
Q:宾得是否已在研发全画幅单反相机?
A: PENTAX mirrorless already occupy a portion of the market, we will continue to develop pencake lenses and create better K-mount lens to satisfy the market needs. (I refuse to use 'optimize' to translate "优化").
A:微单相机已占领了一部分的市场份额,接下去我们会研发饼干镜头并开发和优化K卡口镜头来满足市场需要。
Q: What is the strategy for PENTAX on mirrorless camera segment?
Q:宾得在微单相机这块有什么布局?
A: It is just the opposite of what you said, K-01 sale is very good, we can't even produce enough to satisfy the market needs.
A:恰恰相反,宾得K-01的销量很好,甚至供不应求。
. K-01 creative artistic styling captured quite some attention as well. But due to the high MSRP price, it is not widely received by consumers. Even after the huge price drop, the sale of the camera didn't improved significantly. I wonder if the reason why PENTAX discontinued K-01 because it's sale price is too high and the sale is not good?Q10Q: In mirrorless segment, PENTAX has K-01, Q, and 
这类相机。而K-01附有艺术创意的外形也吸引了不少的目光。但由于上市价格过高,能接受的消费者并不多。而后K-01又经历了一次大幅度降价,但实际销量并没有明显提升。我想问宾得之所以停产宾得K-01是否因为它定价过高,销量不好才出此下策?Q10Q:在微单相机这块,宾得曾发布过K-01,Q和
A: The production line keeps adjusting (to the market), PENTAX is planning it's own APS-C sized compact camera.
A:由于产品线的不断调整,宾得对于APS-C尺寸的紧凑型专业相机正在计划之中。
Q: PENTAX MX-1 uses 12MP and 1/1.7" backlit CMOS sensor, but Ricoh released a APS-C sized compact camera recently (The GR). Would like to know if PENTAX will release a (APS-C sized) compact camera that styled like the MX-1?
风格的机器?MX1Q:宾得MX-1采用1200万像素1/1.7英寸CMOS传感器,但近期理光发布了一款APS-C画幅的紧凑型专业数码相机。想问下宾得是否在未来也会发布一款类似
A: Even though it's time on the market is still short, but the of increased retailers (distributors) gave a positive push to the sale of the camera. So, the sale is not bad.
A:虽然上市时间短,但经销商数量的增多,对于此款机型的销量起到了正面作用。所以,销量还是不错的。
Q: Using retro styling and brass casing as selling points, PENTAX MX-1 has been in the market for 2 weeks, how is the sale?
Q:以复古造型和精致纯铜外壳为亮点的宾得MX-1已经上市2周时间了,请问这款机器现在的销量情况如何?
---------------------------------------------------------
edit: I will translate them all.
Let me try to translate the last 3 questions (they are what we interested, right?) Gear: K200, K5, LX3 
Lenses: DA*: 16-50,50-135,60-250,55,200 | DA ltd: 15, 21, 35, 40 | DA: 18-55 II, 50-200 WR | F: 50f1.7 | FA: 35f2, 50f1.4, 50f1.7 | FA ltd: 31, 43, 77 | FA*: 85 | DFA: 100 WR | M: 50f1.4 | A: 50f1.2 
Wish list: DA ltd: 70 | FA*: 24 | Zeiss 85 |

"Lee" - Pentaxian since 2009
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justin23
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Re: Pentax China Confirms FF DSLR and Pro APS-C body
In reply to MightyMike, Apr 26, 2013

MightyMike wrote:

I predict a FF mirrorless with a new mount, thats not really what i want, its what i predict.

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Mike from Canada
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That would make so many people unhappy. then again, they may be just as unhappy when they find out the FA lens collection isn't quite as good on FF digital as it was on film (it may be, just saying we have no evidence it will be yet)

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Tom Caldwell
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Re: Pentax China Confirms FF DSLR and Pro APS-C body
In reply to anthony mazzeri, Apr 26, 2013

anthony mazzeri wrote:

fakuryu wrote:

MightyMike wrote:

I predict a FF mirrorless with a new mount, thats not really what i want, its what i predict.

It looks like it, and hopefully no and just stay with good old OVF

How do you arrive at a new mount from "different than anything else available today"?

There are several new mount systems available for years now already, so that's definitely not anything different.

Different than anything else available today. Does that literally mean any other cameras, or just other full frame DSLRs. If the former, whatever it is that will make the new Pentax FF special hasn't been done by anybody else already so will be difficult to guess until we see it.

Anthony,

I can't quite work out just why Pentax would want to make a camera that does not make back-compatibility to the venerable K mount.

Do we translate this as an evf camera body with new compact short flange back mount and a factory extension tube adapter to give K mount compatibility?

Something that the K-01 had the opportunity to do but missed the step completely.

Therefore - the K-01 might be dead.  But the technology that was developed might re-surface in a new body type complete with FF sensor.  Where this might leave the Ricoh GXR is the question - unless this whole unit comes with camera back and compatible mount rails.

Now that would be a "lego-kit" set of tricks worth getting really excited about.

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steephill
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Barking mad
In reply to il_alexk, Apr 26, 2013

What sort of commercial signal would Pentax be sending if it adopted the very small niche Leica mount ahead of it's own K mount? Doesn't make any sense at all. What should matter is maximum compatibility with their existing customer base. Canon was big enough to get away with it (dumping FD for EOS), Nikon hasn't dared and changing mounts effectively killed Contax. Pentax won't do this.

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Tom Caldwell
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Re: Pentax China Confirms FF DSLR and Pro APS-C body
In reply to miles green, Apr 27, 2013

miles green wrote:

If it were a milk, it would have the Ricoh brand on it for 2 reasons:

1. Ricoh has a long rangefinder history

2. Not to cause panic amongst Pentax users for abandoning the K mount for FF.

Of course, there would be an adaptor to K mount.

Made by Novoflex!

My guess i that the Pentax FF will be a dslr with a classic look (think black-lacquered brass). It will have a big OVF that will be precise enough to manually focus a fast prime. A split prism will be available. It will be excellent in low light, sporting a 20 megapixel sensor with no AA filter. The buffer and fps will be low to keep the price down. It will have the AF module of the K5ii, and also SR.

The digital LX could be fun: your choice between OVF and EVF, just remove the pentaprism and place the EVF there instead.

Wasn't that what Exakta used to do very successfully?

With Ricoh's lego-block proclivities a slot in slot out pentaprism/evf could give slimline or ovf hump to order.  Flange back distance would be covered by yet another manufacturer-provided oem K mount adapter.  The trick of course is to make all these components so slick to mount that each version appears to be a crafted camera in its own right.  Everybody will be happy - make the camera of your dreams from a construction set of components.  Want a completely new camera - buy some more components and re-cycle the rest.

If this is the new-future then I can understand why it has taken so long to put together.

FF dslr?  Easy-peasy - rack up yet another me-too dslr in a month or so .... (give or take a year).

MightyMike wrote:

audiobomber wrote:

MightyMike wrote:

I predict a FF mirrorless with a new mount, thats not really what i want, its what i predict.

But the rumour says "Pentax China Confirms FF DSLR". A MILC would not be a DSLR.

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Dan

Hmmm... maybe a digital LX ? tons of accessories and features

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Mike from Canada
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Greg Lovern
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Most compact FF
In reply to oklaphotog, Apr 27, 2013

oklaphotog wrote:

will be different than anything else available today

I hope that means it will be the most compact FF DSLR.

Greg

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Alex Sarbu
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Re: Barking mad
In reply to steephill, Apr 27, 2013

steephill wrote:

What sort of commercial signal would Pentax be sending if it adopted the very small niche Leica mount ahead of it's own K mount? Doesn't make any sense at all. What should matter is maximum compatibility with their existing customer base. Canon was big enough to get away with it (dumping FD for EOS), Nikon hasn't dared and changing mounts effectively killed Contax. Pentax won't do this.

Canon did it in different times, and they had to (in order to introduce electronic contacts and AF). Nobody changes their mount with no good reason.

In this case, going for the old, manual focus, longer than other MILC mounts Leica M would do no good; it's worse than e.g. Sony E to adapt other brands' lenses, it's ancient, it's niche. Pentax would gain nothing, but would lose a lot by screwing up their customer base (which is K-mount). No manufacturer would go to such lengths just to facilitate usage of competitors' lenses; indeed, Pentax won't do this.

Another thing which IMHO doesn't make sense is to start a dedicated mirrorless system with a highly expensive, low volume FF camera. It's difficult enough with the K-mount, where they already have a dozen or so of FF-compatible lenses, and components can be more easily shared with the APS-C counterparts.

Alex

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Zvonimir Tosic
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A textbook example on how to make users indifferent
In reply to oklaphotog, Apr 27, 2013

Pentax has not issued anything seriously new in almost 3 years.  Photokina 2012 was the time to show as least something, some enthusiasm, even a seriously advanced APS-C if not a FF prototype, but instead, a K5 sans AA was showed.

I feel that then, during the Photokina 2012, Pentax actually started FF plans seriously, and all new APS-C plans in consequence too — when Nikon and Canon and Sony flooded the floors with their new FFs and everyone was buzzing the FF tune. The lack of commitment for the FF doesn't only reflect on how the future Pentax FF line will look, but how the APS-C line will look like too.

It is possible that all new FFs from other manufacturers caught Pentax off guard. Because they didn't plan the FF yet, they had to redesign the future or imminent APS-C line too because they suddenly faced a totally different competition and market segmentation.

Which is sad, really. Coming late, even to its own game (APS-C) makes users indifferent if there is nothing new to show. Now they must spend more time, and more energy to think about "what new things to include, dammit?" just to keep their market presence. Which is far, far away from leading the market in anything.

On the other hand, I hope I'm wrong.

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miles500
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Re: Pentax China Confirms FF DSLR and Pro APS-C body
In reply to JeffAHayes, Apr 27, 2013

JeffAHayes wrote:

I just hope "different from anything available today" doesn't mean "different color." I mean, Pentax has already gone through just about every color there is except "baby puke green" and "poopie brown" -- or, wait! Could we define one of their greens and browns that way, as well?!?!?

I think it's pretty obvious they're at the point in the market whee it's just about necessary to come out with a FF model or simply state they never will (with the ongoing advances in camera phones, the market for DSLRs is probably going to start to shrink again, after growing considerable for the past dozen years, anyway, so CaNikon, Sony, Pentax, et al, are going to have to do whatever they can in the next 2-3 years to solidify their amateur and enthusiast base, since the pros will pretty much continue to do whatever they've always done).

To me, for Pentax, this means they need at least an entry-level APS-C, a mid-level, a high-level and one FF. At this point, the K-5 SHOULD be fulfilling Pentax's mid-level spot, not it's top-level, and there's the problem for many, including me. Two years ago, the K-5 was pretty much a top-level APS-C camera, but it's really NOT any more, and I don't think the minor upgrades that went into making the K-5II/s were enough to put it there, either. Not that Pentax should do everything Nikon does, but Nikon has the right idea, at present, with a 3200, 5200 and 7100, all with 24 MP sensors, but with different features and levels of professionalism beyond the 24 MP sensor. I was in Costco this afternoon, and I could have bought (albeit temporarily on sale) a D3200 completel with both the 18-55 AND the 55-200 lens for $779. I have to tell you, it was tempting just to "hedge my bets," even though I'm CERTAIN I wouldn't be happy with "the level" of camera that is the 3200. Currently, however, the 5200 is being compared to the K-5, NOT the 7100, even though 2 years ago, the D7000 was seen as its direct competitor.

My point is that Pentax has been REALLY SLOW in its upgrade cycle, while CaNikon AND Sony have been spitting out new models like watermelon seeds! Yeah, I know, they're all MUCH bigger companies (Sony being by far the biggest of the three, if you consider its overall holdings). When you consider that Ricoh paid only $120 million for Pentax's camera division, well, that's "nickels and dimes" in the international business world these days. So perhaps they had to PAY for upgrades before they could make them? Whatever the case, it's had some of us holding our breath. Were I an independent observer sitting on the sidelines looking at the dearth of new offerings by Pentax in the last couple of years, I might surmise this is a company on the verge of getting out of the camera business. The fact, however, that they introduced some new lenses -- especially an expensive new 560 mm lens -- makes it appear they DO plan to hang around. They just need to make sure they introduce "new&improved" camera models fast enough to ensure their CUSTOMERS hang around, as well.

Those of us who are longtime Pentaxians have more patience, or maybe it's just stubborness (or, in my case, too much invested), to jump ship every time CaNikon/Sony do something that looks better. But I fear a lot of the newer customers don't, won't, can't and perhaps haven't.

If I had a bit more $$$ I might have bought a K-30 as a second body by now... or maybe a K-5II... possibly both. But I really don't. Instead, I keep waiting to see what that next big APS-C camera will be, knowing I'll need more to buy it, and if I've spent part of that on a K-30 and/or K-5II, I might have to wait that much longer to get it. I just hope it's worth the wait.

Jeff

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A word is worth 1/1000th of a picture... Maybe that's why I use so many words!

I think that you have summarised the position extremely well.  Like you I am waiting for the next real K5 upgrade.

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awaldram
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Re: A little hint here, periods of quiet there, now another little hint
In reply to breeze_of_wind, Apr 27, 2013

breeze_of_wind wrote:

This is getting awfully tired.  Rumors from China now get us all excited.  As a small company I thought Pentax had the potential to be nimble and quick.  It now seems they are at best at being slow and obtuse. A sad day.

John

Your confusing 'Pentax Statements' with web rumour mill.

2002-2011 = Pentax No FF = followed and delivered on promise

2012 - ? = Pentax looking into

I see nothing slow or obtuse just confident factual message.

Users trying to apply their wants onto Pentax product path are the issue, Try ignoring the complete bxllxx and you'll find the truth is not only out there but has been consistent through the years.

Take this thread there is zero nada zilch new in the statement of the Pentax executive yet we have 90+ posts of speculation off the back of the same story.!!

It is a sad state of affairs but not of Pentax’s making, If people applied the common sense that as sentient beings they were supposedly born with, then these threads would not exist and we would all( the silent majority) not be bored stupid (and not as you say " all excited ").

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Alex Sarbu
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Re: A little hint here, periods of quiet there, now another little hint
In reply to awaldram, Apr 27, 2013

awaldram wrote:

breeze_of_wind wrote:

This is getting awfully tired.  Rumors from China now get us all excited.  As a small company I thought Pentax had the potential to be nimble and quick.  It now seems they are at best at being slow and obtuse. A sad day.

John

Your confusing 'Pentax Statements' with web rumour mill.

2002-2011 = Pentax No FF = followed and delivered on promise

For consistency's sake, I will add that it wasn't a "No FF ever". With the proper market (and internal) conditions, they would "adapt" and work towards a FF product line.

2012 - ? = Pentax looking into

I see nothing slow or obtuse just confident factual message.

Which more or less repeats the words of Kitazawa-san, Pentax' Head of Business Development.

Alex

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Alex Sarbu
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Re: A little hint here, periods of quiet there, now another little hint
In reply to breeze_of_wind, Apr 27, 2013

breeze_of_wind wrote:

This is getting awfully tired.  Rumors from China now get us all excited.  As a small company I thought Pentax had the potential to be nimble and quick.  It now seems they are at best at being slow and obtuse. A sad day.

John

I'm curious, how do you define "nimble and quick" vs "slow and obtuse"? You're giving such verdicts based on what?

Alex

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Pentax K20D Pentax K-5 Pentax smc DA* 60-250mm F4.0 ED (IF) SDM Pentax smc DA 21mm F3.2 AL Limited Pentax smc DA 70mm F2.4 AL Limited +4 more
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Confused of Malvern
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Re: Pentax China Confirms FF DSLR and Pro APS-C body
In reply to MightyMike, Apr 27, 2013

MightyMike wrote:

I predict a FF mirrorless with a new mount, thats not really what i want, its what i predict.

If it was a FF mirrorless, that wouldn't be a FF DSLR

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Confused of Malvern
'The greatest fool can ask more than the wisest man can answer'

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Zvonimir Tosic
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Because FF affects APS-C development too
In reply to Alex Sarbu, Apr 27, 2013

Alex Sarbu wrote:

breeze_of_wind wrote:

This is getting awfully tired.  Rumors from China now get us all excited.  As a small company I thought Pentax had the potential to be nimble and quick.  It now seems they are at best at being slow and obtuse. A sad day.

John

I'm curious, how do you define "nimble and quick" vs "slow and obtuse"? You're giving such verdicts based on what?

Alex

I  can try answering that.

Because if Pentax did not plan the FF before Photokina 2012 (which is highly likely for during the Photokina they kept silent about it), it is also possible they had to redesign the future, or imminent APS-C line too, redefine pricing as well (pricing is affected by design choices and market segmentation).

This means FF directly impacts the APS-C development as well. Pentax suddenly faced a *totally different competition and market segmentation* — Photokina was flooded by FF offers, yet Pentax didn't talk even about their next advanced APS-C.

To put it bluntly, they were falling behind quite seriously even in their own APS-C niche because Nikon, Canon and Sony have redefined what Pentax shall deliver, at what price and at what new market segment, and not only in FF market segment, but in APS-C market segment too. That is why it appears they are "slow". When your future position is defined by others, then you really are behind the game.

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