Pentax China Confirms FF DSLR and Pro APS-C body

Started Apr 25, 2013 | Discussions
ultimitsu
Veteran MemberPosts: 5,485
Like?
Re: Full of .........
In reply to Zvonimir Tosic, Apr 26, 2013

Zvonimir Tosic wrote:

ultimitsu wrote:

This guy is almost full of.... He told the interviewer that K-01 is selling so well that their supply  cannot keep up with the demand.

yeah right.

Do you trust:

  • general rant of the photo bloggers and the so called photography review websites about the K-01 when it was launched? (and who have no sales data of any kind)
  • opinionated reporters who asked Pentax Ricoh's official the question loaded with presumptions? (and who also have no sales data of any kind)
  • this forum members (who also have no sales data of any kind)
  • your own judgment (based on personal prejudices, and no sales data of any kind)
  • or the answer from the Pentax Ricoh official, the only person that can indeed give a correct answer? (who has all sales data of all kinds)

Something tells me you're the one full of ........ prejudices.

Trust this:

http://www.pentax.jp/english/products/index.html  K-01 is not there.

It is discontinued, see here: http://www.pentax.jp/english/products/others.html

So, the demand is so overwhelming that they could not keep up so they just cut it off. That ought to be the right way to do business.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Jim in Hudson
Senior MemberPosts: 1,128Gear list
Like?
Re: Full of .........
In reply to Zvonimir Tosic, Apr 26, 2013

Zvonimir Tosic wrote:

ultimitsu wrote:

This guy is almost full of.... He told the interviewer that K-01 is selling so well that their supply  cannot keep up with the demand.

yeah right.

Do you trust:

  • general rant of the photo bloggers and the so called photography review websites about the K-01 when it was launched? (and who have no sales data of any kind)
  • opinionated reporters who asked Pentax Ricoh's official the question loaded with presumptions? (and who also have no sales data of any kind)
  • this forum members (who also have no sales data of any kind)
  • your own judgment (based on personal prejudices, and no sales data of any kind)
  • or the answer from the Pentax Ricoh official, the only person that can indeed give a correct answer? (who has all sales data of all kinds

... and who provided no sales data of any kind.

 Jim in Hudson's gear list:Jim in Hudson's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX7 Pentax K-30 Fujifilm X-E1 Sigma 10-20mm F4-5.6 EX DC HSM Pentax smc DA 18-135mm F3.5-5.6ED AL [IF] DC WR +4 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
oklaphotog
Contributing MemberPosts: 769Gear list
Like?
Re: Full of .........
In reply to ultimitsu, Apr 26, 2013

ultimitsu wrote:

Trust this:

http://www.pentax.jp/english/products/index.html  K-01 is not there.

It is discontinued, see here: http://www.pentax.jp/english/products/others.html

So, the demand is so overwhelming that they could not keep up so they just cut it off. That ought to be the right way to do business.

That is not the only way to look at it. Maybe it cost more to make the camera than they could sell it for. If profit margin isn't there, it doesn't matter how many you sell. The famed Minolta 28-135 was a great example of this. It was hand assembled on the same line as the G lenses, but was ultimately discontinued because they couldn't sell it at a competitive price and make a profit due to it's production cost. It's quite possible that the price the K-01 had to sell for to be competitive with m43 and NEX cameras was too low in relation to it's production costs.

Very few products get produced and sold for a loss intentionally, aside from gaming consoles and printers where they are practically guaranteed make their money on games or supplies in the case of printers which is required to use the product. With a camera like the K-01, how many of it's purchasers are going to buy any additional accessories like lenses etc.....  I would suspect most purchasers of this camera stick with the kit lens. It was a novelty item more or less.

Another scenario is that it is possible that Pentax has a limited amount of production capacity and they needed to free some of it up to make DSLR's which do sell more than the ugly brick K-01. If you're in a spot where you have more demand than your lines are capable of, but not enough to justify the cost of tooling up, staffing, and operating a whole new plant...... You're going to use that limited production capacity to produce your best selling and most popular products. I would suspect that their funding was pretty limited while under the control of Tokina and it's possible they had to do the best with what they had to work with.

Only Pentax knows why they discontinued the K-01. All we can do is speculate as to why. But the reps statement could very well be correct and they may have discontinued the camera for any number of reasons. With that said, all sales reps claim their product is the cats meow and sells well.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Unexpresivecanvas
Senior MemberPosts: 1,018
Like?
Re: Pentax China Confirms FF DSLR and Pro APS-C body
In reply to oklaphotog, Apr 26, 2013

This is  really a very entertaining thread... Better than  going to the movies..

Just finished my second bag a popcorn...

Please, keep the posts coming..

By the way, have anybody heard about the term :`vaporware'?

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
ultimitsu
Veteran MemberPosts: 5,485
Like?
Re: Full of .........
In reply to oklaphotog, Apr 26, 2013

oklaphotog wrote:

That is not the only way to look at it. Maybe it cost more to make the camera than they could sell it for. If profit margin isn't there, it doesn't matter how many you sell. The famed Minolta 28-135 was a great example of this. It was hand assembled on the same line as the G lenses, but was ultimately discontinued because they couldn't sell it at a competitive price and make a profit due to it's production cost. It's quite possible that the price the K-01 had to sell for to be competitive with m43 and NEX cameras was too low in relation to it's production costs.

Very few products get produced and sold for a loss intentionally, aside from gaming consoles and printers where they are practically guaranteed make their money on games or supplies in the case of printers which is required to use the product. With a camera like the K-01, how many of it's purchasers are going to buy any additional accessories like lenses etc.....  I would suspect most purchasers of this camera stick with the kit lens. It was a novelty item more or less.

Another scenario is that it is possible that Pentax has a limited amount of production capacity and they needed to free some of it up to make DSLR's which do sell more than the ugly brick K-01. If you're in a spot where you have more demand than your lines are capable of, but not enough to justify the cost of tooling up, staffing, and operating a whole new plant...... You're going to use that limited production capacity to produce your best selling and most popular products. I would suspect that their funding was pretty limited while under the control of Tokina and it's possible they had to do the best with what they had to work with.

Only Pentax knows why they discontinued the K-01. All we can do is speculate as to why. But the reps statement could very well be correct and they may have discontinued the camera for any number of reasons. With that said, all sales reps claim their product is the cats meow and sells well.

So basically K-01 is not competitive. For its price it doesn't make a profit, increasing price would result in not enough sales to justify production.

Seems strange when the biggest cost was designing the look.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
JeffAHayes
Senior MemberPosts: 1,919Gear list
Like?
Re: Pentax China Confirms FF DSLR and Pro APS-C body
In reply to oklaphotog, Apr 26, 2013

I just hope "different from anything available today" doesn't mean "different color." I mean, Pentax has already gone through just about every color there is except "baby puke green" and "poopie brown" -- or, wait! Could we define one of their greens and browns that way, as well?!?!?

I think it's pretty obvious they're at the point in the market whee it's just about necessary to come out with a FF model or simply state they never will (with the ongoing advances in camera phones, the market for DSLRs is probably going to start to shrink again, after growing considerable for the past dozen years, anyway, so CaNikon, Sony, Pentax, et al, are going to have to do whatever they can in the next 2-3 years to solidify their amateur and enthusiast base, since the pros will pretty much continue to do whatever they've always done).

To me, for Pentax, this means they need at least an entry-level APS-C, a mid-level, a high-level and one FF. At this point, the K-5 SHOULD be fulfilling Pentax's mid-level spot, not it's top-level, and there's the problem for many, including me. Two years ago, the K-5 was pretty much a top-level APS-C camera, but it's really NOT any more, and I don't think the minor upgrades that went into making the K-5II/s were enough to put it there, either. Not that Pentax should do everything Nikon does, but Nikon has the right idea, at present, with a 3200, 5200 and 7100, all with 24 MP sensors, but with different features and levels of professionalism beyond the 24 MP sensor. I was in Costco this afternoon, and I could have bought (albeit temporarily on sale) a D3200 completel with both the 18-55 AND the 55-200 lens for $779. I have to tell you, it was tempting just to "hedge my bets," even though I'm CERTAIN I wouldn't be happy with "the level" of camera that is the 3200. Currently, however, the 5200 is being compared to the K-5, NOT the 7100, even though 2 years ago, the D7000 was seen as its direct competitor.

My point is that Pentax has been REALLY SLOW in its upgrade cycle, while CaNikon AND Sony have been spitting out new models like watermelon seeds! Yeah, I know, they're all MUCH bigger companies (Sony being by far the biggest of the three, if you consider its overall holdings). When you consider that Ricoh paid only $120 million for Pentax's camera division, well, that's "nickels and dimes" in the international business world these days. So perhaps they had to PAY for upgrades before they could make them? Whatever the case, it's had some of us holding our breath. Were I an independent observer sitting on the sidelines looking at the dearth of new offerings by Pentax in the last couple of years, I might surmise this is a company on the verge of getting out of the camera business. The fact, however, that they introduced some new lenses -- especially an expensive new 560 mm lens -- makes it appear they DO plan to hang around. They just need to make sure they introduce "new&improved" camera models fast enough to ensure their CUSTOMERS hang around, as well.

Those of us who are longtime Pentaxians have more patience, or maybe it's just stubborness (or, in my case, too much invested), to jump ship every time CaNikon/Sony do something that looks better. But I fear a lot of the newer customers don't, won't, can't and perhaps haven't.

If I had a bit more $$$ I might have bought a K-30 as a second body by now... or maybe a K-5II... possibly both. But I really don't. Instead, I keep waiting to see what that next big APS-C camera will be, knowing I'll need more to buy it, and if I've spent part of that on a K-30 and/or K-5II, I might have to wait that much longer to get it. I just hope it's worth the wait.

Jeff

-- hide signature --

A word is worth 1/1000th of a picture... Maybe that's why I use so many words!

 JeffAHayes's gear list:JeffAHayes's gear list
Pentax WG-3 Pentax K-5 Pentax K-30 Pentax K-3 Pentax smc DA* 16-50mm F2.8 ED AL (IF) SDM +8 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Zvonimir Tosic
Senior MemberPosts: 2,144Gear list
Like?
Why would he?
In reply to Jim in Hudson, Apr 26, 2013

Jim in Hudson wrote:

...

  • your own judgment (based on personal prejudices, and no sales data of any kind)
  • or the answer from the Pentax Ricoh official, the only person that can indeed give a correct answer? (who has all sales data of all kinds

... and who provided no sales data of any kind.

Why would he do that?

To satisfy your curiosity? And what would any number he provided mean to anyone? Because we are lacking important internal knowledge.

On the other hand, why would he lie in such a way? He might have said "the camera sold just as expected". But to claim that demand was higher than the production plan .. well, it's very unreasonable from us to call him a liar.

But his answer is now much more valuable. Why?

So far, no one else but Pentax Ricoh knew the exact purpose of the K-01. So any number of units sold we may get is meaningless. Camera was so unusual a product that it doesn't seem to be "the founding father" of any specific, well thought of camera category.

It looked more like a test project, a camera designed to attract attention, turn heads, see what people react to, and for that, a limited production was designated, lifespan, and cost capped from the beginning. If the demand exceeded the supply, that may as well mean that — K-01 was only a test project, sorry folks.

If its purpose was to test the design, some specs, some tech and styling details, and based on responses gathered apply that data to the upcoming new line of cameras (which is under development in the meantime), to sacrifice one model instead of a whole line makes much more sense.

-- hide signature --

Zvonimir Tosic
“A portrait is not made in the camera, but on either side of it.”
— Edward Steichen

 Zvonimir Tosic's gear list:Zvonimir Tosic's gear list
Fujifilm FinePix X100
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
zxaar
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,280
Like?
Re: Full of .........
In reply to ultimitsu, Apr 26, 2013

ultimitsu wrote:

Zvonimir Tosic wrote:

ultimitsu wrote:

This guy is almost full of.... He told the interviewer that K-01 is selling so well that their supply  cannot keep up with the demand.

yeah right.

Do you trust:

  • general rant of the photo bloggers and the so called photography review websites about the K-01 when it was launched? (and who have no sales data of any kind)
  • opinionated reporters who asked Pentax Ricoh's official the question loaded with presumptions? (and who also have no sales data of any kind)
  • this forum members (who also have no sales data of any kind)
  • your own judgment (based on personal prejudices, and no sales data of any kind)
  • or the answer from the Pentax Ricoh official, the only person that can indeed give a correct answer? (who has all sales data of all kinds)

Something tells me you're the one full of ........ prejudices.

Trust this:

http://www.pentax.jp/english/products/index.html  K-01 is not there.

It is discontinued, see here: http://www.pentax.jp/english/products/others.html

So, the demand is so overwhelming that they could not keep up so they just cut it off. That ought to be the right way to do business.

Means all of them are sold off, proving that it sold well.

Try again.

-- hide signature --

::> I make spelling mistakes. May Dog forgive me for this.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
ultimitsu
Veteran MemberPosts: 5,485
Like?
Re: Full of .........
In reply to zxaar, Apr 26, 2013

zxaar wrote:

ultimitsu wrote:

Trust this:

http://www.pentax.jp/english/products/index.html  K-01 is not there.

It is discontinued, see here: http://www.pentax.jp/english/products/others.html

So, the demand is so overwhelming that they could not keep up so they just cut it off. That ought to be the right way to do business.

Means all of them are sold off, proving that it sold well.

discontinued =!  sold well or sold off.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Zvonimir Tosic
Senior MemberPosts: 2,144Gear list
Like?
Again ...
In reply to ultimitsu, Apr 26, 2013

ultimitsu wrote:

zxaar wrote:

Means all of them are sold off, proving that it sold well.

discontinued =!  sold well or sold off.

The key to the puzzle is that you don't know the exact purpose of the K-01, nor its planned production.

You are insisting on one conclusion stubbornly, yet the answer we get from the PR official may mean something else entirely, which you didn't bother to consider.

-- hide signature --

Zvonimir Tosic
“A portrait is not made in the camera, but on either side of it.”
— Edward Steichen

 Zvonimir Tosic's gear list:Zvonimir Tosic's gear list
Fujifilm FinePix X100
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
zxaar
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,280
Like?
Re: Full of .........
In reply to ultimitsu, Apr 26, 2013

ultimitsu wrote:

zxaar wrote:

ultimitsu wrote:

Trust this:

http://www.pentax.jp/english/products/index.html  K-01 is not there.

It is discontinued, see here: http://www.pentax.jp/english/products/others.html

So, the demand is so overwhelming that they could not keep up so they just cut it off. That ought to be the right way to do business.

Means all of them are sold off, proving that it sold well.

discontinued =!  sold well or sold off.

Okey not sold, but discontinued, just  for the hack of taking losses. Which company would  want to sell the items not sold off.

Talk about logic and you will be champion from rear.

-- hide signature --

::> I make spelling mistakes. May Dog forgive me for this.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
ultimitsu
Veteran MemberPosts: 5,485
Like?
Re: Again ...
In reply to Zvonimir Tosic, Apr 26, 2013

Zvonimir Tosic wrote:

ultimitsu wrote:

zxaar wrote:

Means all of them are sold off, proving that it sold well.

discontinued =!  sold well or sold off.

The key to the puzzle is that you don't know the exact purpose of the K-01, nor its planned production.

What is puzzling about "the exact purpose of the K-01"? It is Pentax's entry in the APs-C mirrorless market.

What is so hidden about "its planned production" when it is officially listed as discontinued?

You are insisting on one conclusion stubbornly,

That it is a discontinued product?

yet the answer we get from the PR official may mean something else entirely, which you didn't bother to consider.

What would it be? I am interested to see how you can spin a product discontinued after just one year  into a success of any kind.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
ultimitsu
Veteran MemberPosts: 5,485
Like?
Re: Full of .........
In reply to zxaar, Apr 26, 2013

zxaar wrote:

ultimitsu wrote:

zxaar wrote:

ultimitsu wrote:

Trust this:

http://www.pentax.jp/english/products/index.html  K-01 is not there.

It is discontinued, see here: http://www.pentax.jp/english/products/others.html

So, the demand is so overwhelming that they could not keep up so they just cut it off. That ought to be the right way to do business.

Means all of them are sold off, proving that it sold well.

discontinued =!  sold well or sold off.

Okey not sold, but discontinued, just  for the hack of taking losses. Which company would  want to sell the items not sold off.

Talk about logic and you will be champion from rear.

You have already lost me. I am sure you will interpret that as yet another win for you.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
solarider
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,814Gear list
Like?
Re: Pentax China Confirms FF DSLR and Pro APS-C body
In reply to oklaphotog, Apr 26, 2013

translation of intereview:

pentaxforums dot com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/222768-pentax-p-e2013-ff-under-development-aps-c-compact-camera-more.html#post2363546

-- hide signature --

History would be something extraordinary, if only it were true. Leo Tolstoy
Any dictator would admire the uniformity and obedience of the U.S. media.
Noam Chomsky
Science... became scientism, which means it didn't just pursue its own truths, it aggressively denied that there were any other truths at all... Ken Wilbur
At any given moment, there is a sort of all pervading orthodoxy, a general tacit
agreement not to discuss large and uncomfortable facts… Anyone who
challenges the prevailing orthodoxy finds himself silenced with surprising
effectiveness. - George Orwell
“It's not a matter of whether the war is not real, or if it is, Victory is not possible. The war is not meant to be won, it is meant to be continuous. … The war is waged by the ruling group against its own subjects and its object is not the victory over [the purported enemy], but to keep the very structure of society intact.” George Orwell, 1984
- - -

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Alex Sarbu
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,395Gear list
Like?
Re: FF from Pentax will have a pentaprism on the bottom
In reply to Zvonimir Tosic, Apr 26, 2013

Zvonimir Tosic wrote:

No one else has done it before, and probably, will never even think about it.

That's not true; I have a camera just like that... wait, I was holding it upside down 

Alex

 Alex Sarbu's gear list:Alex Sarbu's gear list
Pentax K20D Pentax K-5 Pentax smc DA* 60-250mm F4.0 ED (IF) SDM Pentax smc DA 21mm F3.2 AL Limited Pentax smc DA 70mm F2.4 AL Limited +4 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Cosmo Not
Junior MemberPosts: 28
Like?
Re: Why would he?
In reply to Zvonimir Tosic, Apr 26, 2013

Good points. Another idea, perhaps the purpose of such an odd creation was to get people to notice Pentax. I personally never thought I would buy pentax. I fugured if I ever left canon it would be for nikon, but here I am. I can honestly say it was the controversy surrounding the K-01 that got me to look up the name Pentax. Then I learned about the new K-5 models, $1200 later I am in love. That weird little camera attracted a lot of attention, that is good advertising even if people dont realize it.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Rod Herdman
Senior MemberPosts: 2,549Gear list
Like?
Re: FF from Pentax will have a pentaprism on the bottom
In reply to Zvonimir Tosic, Apr 26, 2013

Zvonimir Tosic wrote:

No one else has done it before, and probably, will never even think about it.

Will that be to avoid mirror slap ? They can use a weaker spring since it will be gravity-assisted.

-- hide signature --

All I want is a digital back for my trusty K1000 . . .

 Rod Herdman's gear list:Rod Herdman's gear list
Pentax *ist D Pentax smc DA 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 AL Pentax smc DA 50-200mm F4-5.6 ED +12 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Rod Herdman
Senior MemberPosts: 2,549Gear list
Like?
Re: Pentax China Confirms FF DSLR and Pro APS-C body
In reply to ultimitsu, Apr 26, 2013

ultimitsu wrote:

This guy is almost full of.... He told the interviewer that K-01 is selling so well that their supply  cannot keep up with the demand.

yeah right.

That is true. There is no K-01 production so it is impossible to keep up with demand.

-- hide signature --

All I want is a digital back for my trusty K1000 . . .

 Rod Herdman's gear list:Rod Herdman's gear list
Pentax *ist D Pentax smc DA 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 AL Pentax smc DA 50-200mm F4-5.6 ED +12 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
henricoo
Junior MemberPosts: 31
Like?
The first FF covering circular sensor.....
In reply to oklaphotog, Apr 26, 2013

.....so you don't have to be too precize keeping it horizontal..... and it gives you the oportunity to make 30*30 mm square etc. pictures too!

If that's too difficult for engineering square 36x36 is also good.

That would be stunning!

All that FF glass will be used for a true 100%.

Cheers.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
il_alexk
Senior MemberPosts: 1,946Gear list
Like?
Pentax haters test
In reply to ultimitsu, Apr 26, 2013

ultimitsu wrote:

This guy is almost full of.... He told the interviewer that K-01 is selling so well that their supply  cannot keep up with the demand.

Here is a Pentax hater test.

Q: How do you classify sales of the discontinued K01 (you can select more than one option):

  • Massive sales of a discontinued/End-of-Life product - 1 point
  • K01 is selling so well that Pentax can't keep up with the demand - 10 points

Results:

  • 1 points:            Shame on you, but you do hate Pentax
  • 10 points:          You are a good person
  • 11 points:          You are confused, go shoot Leica for a couple of years
-- hide signature --

Cheers,
Alex

 il_alexk's gear list:il_alexk's gear list
Pentax K-5 Olympus PEN E-PM1 Olympus OM-D E-M10 Panasonic Lumix G 20mm F1.7 ASPH Pentax smc FA 50mm F1.4 +7 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads