Do you guys use VR on or off mostly?

Started Apr 23, 2013 | Discussions
MikeInIndy
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Re: Do you guys use VR on or off mostly?
In reply to alegator, Apr 23, 2013

I've never had any complaints about the sharpness of my lenses with it on, but I rarely shoot fast enough shutter speeds to not want it on.  Most of what I do is motorsports with panning or cityscape/landscape stuff frequently at or near sunset.  But I'm also shooting with newer lens designs (16-35,24-85 and 70-200 f4)

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AZBlue
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Re: Do you guys use VR on or off mostly?
In reply to alegator, Apr 23, 2013

On my Sigma 150mm Macro HSM APO stabilized lens, I need to disable the VR (Sigma calls it OS) otherwise I end up getting blurry images. I notice that when I hand hold and am extremely still, the VR function in the lens sometimes causes the lens to move when I am not moving, resulting in a blurry photo versus disabling the function.

Perhaps the VR feature works when you have shaky hands, but it can be counter productive for folks who do have good hand holding technique to start with.

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wireless
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Re: Do you guys use VR on or off mostly?
In reply to andreben, Apr 23, 2013

andreben wrote:

One thing to keep in mind as well is that sometimes VR can give you unwanted artifacts in your image. For instance, particularly if you have some fairly out-of-focus objects such as trees, bushes, or even buildings in your picture, VR-on can at least on some lenses give you some nasty looking bokeh due to shifting of the out-of-focus objects. Due to this, I try to keep VR off unless I think I need it due to low shutter speeds.

Interesting. I've noticed that, i.e., the subject object in good focus but odd bokah with VR on.  Thanks for pointing that out.

regards, David

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Re: Always off in the studio, mostly on everywhere else (nt)
In reply to alegator, Apr 23, 2013
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wireless
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Re: Do you guys use VR on or off mostly?
In reply to RBFresno, Apr 23, 2013

RBFresno wrote:

Hi!

I know that folks say this (even Rorslett), and I may  have seen a few examples(?). However I've never been able to reproduce this

VR on at fast shutter speed; Artifacts in the  bokeh?"

Here's what may be an example.  Notice the flower and some of the leaves.  I was wondering what may have caused the slightly odd bokah.  Maybe it was the sharpening.

It was taken at dusk, low light, full-manual at 200mm, f2.8, 1/200th handheld, and ISO 1600.  100% crop.   OTOH I think the photo shows how good the 70-200mm lens is, and the camera (low noise).

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vaxn8r
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Re: Do you guys use VR on or off mostly?
In reply to alegator, Apr 23, 2013

On unless using a tripod.

I would be interested to see examples of image degradation due to VR usage when handheld. yeah, I'm skeptical.

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alegator
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Re: Do you guys use VR on or off mostly?
In reply to Robin Casady, Apr 23, 2013

Robin Casady wrote:

I turn it off 98.765% of the time.

So in what shooting situations do you use VR?

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wireless
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Re: Do you guys use VR on or off mostly?
In reply to vaxn8r, Apr 23, 2013

vaxn8r wrote:

I would be interested to see examples of image degradation due to VR usage when handheld. yeah, I'm skeptical.

Have you read Thom's article?  It makes sense in my view.  The sampling rate for the feedback loop has to top out somewhere.

I've taken photos of a soccer game with it both on an off during the game to test it and eventually left it off since I was shooting at 1/1600.  I couldn't tell that anything was degraded by doing that but I also couldn't tell if it made things better.  The photos looked good with it off so I concluded it's not necessary for over 1/500th.

One thing that no one's mentioned.. when it's off you don't have to hear and feel all the busy sounds of VR going on in the lens!  That's nice.  It also lets you know how busy VR causes the internals of the lens to be.

regards, David

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alegator
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Re: Do you guys use VR on or off mostly?
In reply to wireless, Apr 23, 2013

wireless wrote:

One thing that no one's mentioned.. when it's off you don't have to hear and feel all the busy sounds of VR going on in the lens!  That's nice.  It also lets you know how busy VR causes the internals of the lens to be.

So I guess that having VR ON decreases battery life?

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GregF
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On
In reply to alegator, Apr 23, 2013

alegator wrote:

I always had the idea that VR should always be OFF unless stricltly necessary, like when shooting in vibration environments. I found a great article

I infer from such article that even with handheld, unless standing on a vibrating surface, VR should be OFF.

What's your feedback on this?

Many times I can get better handheld shots with my 24-85VR lens than my 85 f/1.8 because I'm spoiled by the VR and my technique suffers...I have to remember I don't have it when using the prime.

I also use a Sigma 70-200 f/2.8 OS and the stabilization works well.  I can hand hold most shots at 200mm in all sorts of light.

For me, it eliminates the need to carry a tripod for 90% of what I do.  And yes, I just pulled that number out of you-know-where, your mileage may vary

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Trevor Allen
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Re: Do you guys use VR on or off mostly?
In reply to alegator, Apr 23, 2013

99% Off as usually need a shutter speed of 1/500 upwards

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Jane79
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Re: Always on...
In reply to richard cohen, Apr 23, 2013

richard cohen wrote:

Unless I forget to turn it on I use it 100% of the time.

If you never turn it off, how can you forget to turn it on?

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inasir1971
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Re: Do you guys use VR on or off mostly?
In reply to alegator, Apr 23, 2013

I think the article is a bit simplistic in assuming that VR has to be turned off (manually) for high shutter speeds.

Any decision that is as simple as turning it off above a certain shutter speed, be it 1/FL or 1/500s, can and will (or should at least) be automated.

We know that communication between the lens/camera is bidirectional and additional commands do get added. The camera always knows the focal length even with zooms - if you have a speedlight attached and adjust the zoom ring, the speedlight will adjust as you adjust the zoom ring. Commands such as electronic aperture operation have been added - the PC-E lenses use electronic apertures and the camera commands the lens to stop down electronically as there is no mechanical linkage with these. So the information needed to make the decision is available to the camera and the camera has (or should be able to have) the ability to stop and start VR operation.

If you were going to shoot at 1/500s or any other particular speed, as the exposure duration is known by the camera before the shot is taken it would be very simple to command the VR system to stop before the shot is taken and to resume after. This could, for example, provide the benefit of a steadier viewfinder image. Someone who is smart enough to calculate the VR system's deflection required to compensate for camera motion is going to be intelligent enough to figure this out.

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Tommot1965
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Re: Do you guys use VR on or off mostly?
In reply to alegator, Apr 23, 2013

VR..is a tool of the modern world like in camera metering...you need to learn when to use it and when not too...I mostly have it on..but when shooting fast action with high shutter speeds I turn it off..the VR is slow to react in those situations..at least on my 70-200 VR II..so I see no need for it.

birds at long FL sitting on a perch..then use it

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Robin Casady
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Re: Do you guys use VR on or off mostly?
In reply to alegator, Apr 23, 2013

alegator wrote:

Robin Casady wrote:

I turn it off 98.765% of the time.

So in what shooting situations do you use VR?

In theory, hand held situations where I cannot use 1/(2 x fl.) and cannot use a tripod, cannot use flash, and the lens has VR. That narrows it to the 105mm f/2.8 Micro, or the 70-200mm f/2.8 VRI. Since (according to Thom) Nikon says to turn VR off for macro use, that limits even further.

Haven't had occasion to use VR since buying the D800E a year ago. I think I might have used it once with a D700, but I'm not sure.

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Robin Casady
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Re: Do you guys use VR on or off mostly?
In reply to RBFresno, Apr 23, 2013

RBFresno wrote:

andreben wrote:

alegator wrote:

I always had the idea that VR should always be OFF unless stricltly necessary, like when shooting in vibration environments. I found a great article

I infer from such article that even with handheld, unless standing on a vibrating surface, VR should be OFF.

What's your feedback on this?

One thing to keep in mind as well is that sometimes VR can give you unwanted artifacts in your image. For instance, particularly if you have some fairly out-of-focus objects such as trees, bushes, or even buildings in your picture, VR-on can at least on some lenses give you some nasty looking bokeh due to shifting of the out-of-focus objects. Due to this, I try to keep VR off unless I think I need it due to low shutter speeds.

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Hi!

I know that folks say this (even Rorslett), and I may  have seen a few examples(?). However I've never been able to reproduce this

VR on at fast shutter speed; Artifacts in the  bokeh?"

Nikon D3 ,Nikkor 200mm f/2G IF-ED AF-S VR
1/3200s f/2.0 at 200.0mm iso200

Read Thom's article on VR. There was no benefit to using VR at 1/3200 sec. and possibly some damage. At 1/500 and faster, VR cannot react fast enough to be of use, and if you catch it just right (or just wrong, actually), it will blur edges.

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Robin Casady
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"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts."
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Hasa
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Re: Do you guys use VR on or off mostly?
In reply to alegator, Apr 23, 2013

Hi,

You are probably talking stills photography, however I have just been down to the lake shooting water & trees & remote birds with the D800:

The VR on the 24-85mm F3,5-4,5 and 70-200mm F4 + TC 1,7x are nothing short of amazing. The video is totally usable with VR, without tripod, with Swivi viewfinder which helps stabilizing as well. At dusk the fun stops: being live view'ish the VR works stopped down so stops working for lack of light, I assume.

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Robin Casady
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Re: Do you guys use VR on or off mostly?
In reply to alegator, Apr 23, 2013

alegator wrote:

wireless wrote:

One thing that no one's mentioned.. when it's off you don't have to hear and feel all the busy sounds of VR going on in the lens!  That's nice.  It also lets you know how busy VR causes the internals of the lens to be.

So I guess that having VR ON decreases battery life?

Yes.

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Robin Casady
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Midwest
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Re: Do you guys use VR on or off mostly?
In reply to kiirokurisu, Apr 23, 2013

kiirokurisu wrote:

This seems totally contrary to the design intent of VR. It is designed to damp out small movements of the photographer's hands, not the ground he or she's standing on

Maybe they should call it 'TR', for 'temblor reduction'.

All you have to do is look through the viewfinder, and especially at tele distances, and see the huge difference VR or IS or whatever makes in keeping the image steady. I've never heard that it was not supposed to be used except in 'vibration environments' but whoever came up with that is crazy.

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Midwest
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Re: Do you guys use VR on or off mostly?
In reply to Robin Casady, Apr 23, 2013

Robin Casady wrote:

Read Thom's article on VR. There was no benefit to using VR at 1/3200 sec. and possibly some damage. At 1/500 and faster, VR cannot react fast enough to be of use, and if you catch it just right (or just wrong, actually), it will blur edges.

Suppose however that you're shooting at any significant tele or zoom focal length. While you are framing and composing your shot, with VR turned on, your camera's autofocus and metering are getting good solid info about your image up to and after you press the shutter release. With it off, the camera and AF are working with a jittery tele focal length the whole time and your view through the OVF is also jittering around.

It doesn't matter if the shutter speed is going to be fast enough that there won't be motion blur, wouldn't you rather have metering and autofocus that's working with a useable view instead of something shaking all round? I would.

This is why DSLR's have stabilization in the lenses and not on the sensor. On a bridge or point/shoot, it's fine on the sensor, but with a DSLR you need it in the lens, and need to be using it, to get the real benefit.

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