NO More D660 OIL threads PLEASE

Started Apr 22, 2013 | Discussions
Chris in Sacto
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Re: NO More D660 OIL threads PLEASE
In reply to Midwest, Apr 24, 2013

Midwest wrote:

Chris in Sacto wrote:
Frankly, I don't see the issue as a deal breaker, as this is truly an exceptional camera and it is not hard to clean a sensor.

But, to be frank, isn't that like saying "My new 500XYZ turbo sports car is so great, I really don't care that it leaks oil on my driveway. I can clean it up.'"?

Shouldn't something work properly?

Yes, you are absolutely correct. Reminds me of the old Triumph Trophy 650 that I use to have when I was in high school and later my old Harley Davidson shovelhead. Rode and loved em' both. Both leaked oil and had their share of minor problems. Still, somehow I managed to had fun with them.

-C

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Prairie Pal
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Yep /
In reply to Bajerunner, Apr 24, 2013

I think you mean OCD..OCD...OCD? Right....that is OCD? Right? Like OCD?

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You might be right.  Or was it left.  I don't know any more, I'm di-laxic.

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Len_Gee
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Re: More D600 OIL threads PLEASE
In reply to Event_shooter, Apr 24, 2013

I purchased the Nikon, but  when I examined pictures I noticed dust and débris.   Disappointed at the Nikon QC, so I reluctantly exchanged the kit for Canon.

Nikon needs to know how bad it is, and I'm sure they read DPR.

So should keep posting oil threads.

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chipmaster
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Re: NO More D660 OIL threads PLEASE
In reply to Event_shooter, Apr 24, 2013

Event_shooter wrote:

Lets all agree the D600 has oil spots, and apparently always will, so we no longer need the millionth thread that you bout a D600 and now you see oil spots.

Let's all assume that everyone who has a D600

1 - Has spots, and need to send it to Nikon for cleaning

2 - Hate that they have to send it ti Nikon for cleaning

3- Mad at Nikon for still selling the D600 with oil spots

4- Will never buy a Nikon product again

5- Going to buy  Canon

So there we have it all in a nut shell, see we no longer need to discuss it. Unless you start a thread and just use the "code numbers" EXAMPLE:

I bought a D600 and... 1, 2, 3.

If you don't like the complaing thread then skip it!   I have been horribly dissapointed with the quality of my D4 and D600.  Call me a fool but gave the D600 a second go and my second copy got spots too.   I am very close to 5)   its nothing but a tool for me, the ergo and menus I prefer on Nikon but frankly this is just a tool.  Continue to produce product of this quality and the business will be gone.

Nikon's huge stepper business is going going gone.   Why for many of the same reasons they camera business is at risk.  You make a product that is marginal or not competitive... you provide poor customer support.   Take a look Canon used to have a stepper business, no more.   Nikon your cameras and other business is rapidly at risk.  For me its just a tool, I can replace it for 15K, for you its the your business, the livelhood of your employees, get a clue and fix it!

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nikonjohn
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How about no more complaints about oil spot threads!
In reply to chipmaster, Apr 24, 2013

No txt

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Event_shooter
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Re: How about no more complaints about oil spot threads!
In reply to nikonjohn, Apr 24, 2013

Thanks for helping me understand WHY there are 150 NEW posts about the oil on the D600.

Seems people would rather complain and read about people complaining than actually see photos on a DIGITAL PHOTOGRAPHY site. Who knew, so may people actually like reading the same thing over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over.

Now I get it. So for those that actually like reading the same thing over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over  - my apologies for trying to get this site off the millionth and counting post about the same old same old tired thread.

So onward lets keep beating this dead horse it seems it still has some life in it.

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RJPeter
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Re: NO More D660 OIL threads PLEASE
In reply to Event_shooter, Apr 24, 2013

Event_shooter wrote:

Lets all agree the D600 has oil spots, and apparently always will, so we no longer need the millionth thread that you bout a D600 and now you see oil spots.

Let's all assume that everyone who has a D600

1 - Has spots, and need to send it to Nikon for cleaning

2 - Hate that they have to send it ti Nikon for cleaning

3- Mad at Nikon for still selling the D600 with oil spots

4- Will never buy a Nikon product again

5- Going to buy  Canon

So there we have it all in a nut shell, see we no longer need to discuss it. Unless you start a thread and just use the "code numbers" EXAMPLE:

I bought a D600 and... 1, 2, 3.

So why did you start another one ?

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Mel Snyder
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Re: Kindergarten II, the Sequel
In reply to moving_comfort, Apr 24, 2013

I'm with you, friend.

These people seem to move from forum to forum, and they are unerring in their ability to bring up the same issues, over and over. Meanwhile, the rest of us - aware of the issues - are forced to sort through them to find new nuggets.

Personally, I'm waiting for the oil fix, I own 2 D7000s (I shoot professional video with them) and want to trade/sell one to get a new D600. I've toyed with the idea of a "factory refurbished" just to maybe increase my chances of avoiding the issue.

So I try to monitor the subject - and the chaff-to-wheat ratio is daunting...

moving_comfort wrote:

chlamchowder wrote:

The internet also allows for unremitting pedantry, represented as insight and discovery, over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over again, delivered with an almost Aspergian quality.

Yes, that is one possible shortcoming of free speech...but I'm willing to tolerate that because preventing people from posting stuff I don't want to hear about has pretty bad consequences.

In the case where we have an indexed, time-ranked interface to this pedantry, like the front page of the forum, it can detract from what could be an enjoyable experience reading about other, more useful photography-related subjects.

I think this is where we differ. I don't think a forum's main purpose is to provide enjoyable reading. To me, a forum should first aim to provide a space for discussion, question-asking, and debate.

But I still don't think dust/left focus/whatever threads detract from the experience as long as you can scroll past them and look at only what you're interested in. It can be difficult to filter out information, but I think that skill is useful in a wide variety of situations (outside of this site, and even outside the internet), and therefore is definitely worth learning.

.

Except no-one comes here to learn how to 'filter out information', they come to gather information.

Filtering out information is something you learned long before you came here;  listing that as a positive by-product of using this forum is like saying learning how to recover from injury is a great reason for playing sports.

.

Next time you see the forum index, for each post, think about whether you're interested. If not, move on. You don't have to look into it, or even think about it.

Really?  I wish I had thought of that!  

If you get to the end of the front page, you can always move to the next page. After a while, you'll train your mind to automatically ignore posts you're not interested in, so all the time you spend on the forum will be focused on topics you do care about.

.

Thanks for the tips, but you're not talking to kindergartners here.  We know how to use the forum, and we know when it's being polluted by inane, repetitive me-too posts.

.

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chlamchowder
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Re: Kindergarten II, the Sequel
In reply to Mel Snyder, Apr 24, 2013

Thanks for the tips, but you're not talking to kindergartners here.  We know how to use the forum, and we know when it's being polluted by inane, repetitive me-too posts.

If you do know how to filter through info, is it really too much to just look past things you don't want to hear about? I think that's a far better option than asking others to refrain from talking about something just to keep you happy. Cutting out a topic (no matter how much you dislike seeing it) violates the forum's neutrality. And implying that the forum has a responsibility to keep you happy and conform to your expectations is very self-centered behavior.

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nikonjohn
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If you want to see pictures why don't you go to the galleries? This forum
In reply to Event_shooter, Apr 25, 2013

references gear although some, including me, post pictures.

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Edmund17
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Don’t worry
In reply to Event_shooter, Apr 25, 2013

Event_shooter wrote:

Lets all agree the D600 has oil spots, and apparently always will, so we no longer need the millionth thread that you bout a D600 and now you see oil spots.

OK.........................

Don’t worry ……Nikon just replaced my D600 for a new one.…And so far…..It’s working OK…but …its seems that you don’t want to know…..

Like Steve Bingham says….. No problems, great camera, great photos…. hopefully in a few days I'll say the same

Ed.

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Lucky Sky
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Just Dying To Give Up More Freedom
In reply to Event_shooter, Apr 25, 2013

Here in the USA, much of the population is hell bent on giving up freedoms as fast as they can shed them. They want not the responsibility for an open forum, but rather wish to take away others' ability to partake in an open forum (read that as free speech). To them, limiting speech is so much easier rather than accepting responsibility for filtering out that speech which is found to be unappealing to them.

Does the Op get upset at the repetitive headlines in the newspapers? It's always SSDD when it comes to the news. Only the names and locations change. I have a feeling that he/she filters that very news by not reading the story that follows the headline, if that headline is found to be unattractive.

But here we have the nanny state..........people who can't do for themselves, so they'd rather just take away your freedom from you to state your case. If only they could.

Pitiful.

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Event_shooter
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At the price of OIL you should be PAYING NIKON
In reply to Event_shooter, Apr 25, 2013

At the price of OIL you should be PAYING NIKON. Nikon knows Oil is in short supply and expensive, so they are helping you all out by giving you a little extra.

Canon doesn't care about you they won't give you any extra oil.

Not to mention all you oil Barons get to be rock starts by posting the same thing all over this site. So You are famous and you have more oil than me, what could you possible be crying about?

I have to pay for my oil and all you D621 people get it for free, Shhhesh what ingrates.

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mdiphoto
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Re: NO More D660 OIL threads PLEASE
In reply to Event_shooter, Apr 25, 2013

Found some tiny oilspots on that picture. Maybe it comes from a car?

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Clivegriff
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Re: Just Dying To Give Up More Freedom
In reply to Lucky Sky, Apr 25, 2013

Lucky Sky wrote:

Pitiful.

What is really pitiful is your inability to understand the OP.

Nowhere - NOWHERE - in his post does he advocate compulsion or censorship; he simply posits that it might be a good idea if the D600 oil/dust threads were recognised to have exhausted any usefulness that they might once have had.

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Robin Casady
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Re: Just Dying To Give Up More Freedom
In reply to Lucky Sky, Apr 25, 2013

Lucky Sky wrote:

Here in the USA, much of the population is hell bent on giving up freedoms as fast as they can shed them. They want not the responsibility for an open forum, but rather wish to take away others' ability to partake in an open forum (read that as free speech). To them, limiting speech is so much easier rather than accepting responsibility for filtering out that speech which is found to be unappealing to them.

Does the Op get upset at the repetitive headlines in the newspapers? It's always SSDD when it comes to the news. Only the names and locations change. I have a feeling that he/she filters that very news by not reading the story that follows the headline, if that headline is found to be unattractive.

But here we have the nanny state..........people who can't do for themselves, so they'd rather just take away your freedom from you to state your case. If only they could.

Freedom requires responsibility. Inundating the forum with basically the same thread over and over and over again is not being a responsible member of the forum. It is a narcissistic tantrum.

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chlamchowder
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Re: Just Dying To Give Up More Freedom
In reply to Robin Casady, Apr 25, 2013

Robin Casady wrote:

Lucky Sky wrote:

Here in the USA, much of the population is hell bent on giving up freedoms as fast as they can shed them. They want not the responsibility for an open forum, but rather wish to take away others' ability to partake in an open forum (read that as free speech). To them, limiting speech is so much easier rather than accepting responsibility for filtering out that speech which is found to be unappealing to them.

Does the Op get upset at the repetitive headlines in the newspapers? It's always SSDD when it comes to the news. Only the names and locations change. I have a feeling that he/she filters that very news by not reading the story that follows the headline, if that headline is found to be unattractive.

But here we have the nanny state..........people who can't do for themselves, so they'd rather just take away your freedom from you to state your case. If only they could.

Freedom requires responsibility. Inundating the forum with basically the same thread over and over and over again is not being a responsible member of the forum. It is a narcissistic tantrum.

I think a large problem here is a misunderstanding of the "freedom of speech" concept. My interpretation of freedom of speech is that people are allowed to express themselves, and are expected to tolerate other people expressing themselves, even if they don't want to hear it.

There's going to be continuing discussion on the dust problem, especially since there's no evidence that Nikon has a clear solution. It's a very relevant topic to a lot of people. Quite a few people own D600s, and quite a few people considering that camera will be doing research on potential problems. I can see that some people don't want to see such threads, but I don't think that problem can be solved without placing limits on free speech (which would be extremely undesirable).

The main problem here really seems to be a clash of ideologies. Some of us want to preserve the free expression that this forum provides. Some of us wish to limit the number of threads they don't want to read. It's basically a question of whether we want to conform to the USA model of tolerating what others say, versus the China/North Korea/Soviet Union model of hiding/purging speech that's considered undesirable. I personally favor the USA model, and wouldn't like this site to switch over to the other model. However, I definitely wouldn't mind if dissatisfied DPR forum members went out and made a separate "make me happy" forum where dust threads aren't allowed. I just don't think a forum that doesn't want to discuss rather important and relevant topics could be useful.

By the way, I think saying the forum is "inudated" with dust threads is a gross exaggeration. I went through the first page of threads, and counted 6 titles out of 60 related to dust/oil with the D600. What's particularly significant is how I had to actively look for dust threads in order to find them. I don't understand at all how some people have become so agitated and fixated on them. They do pop up once in a while, but whining about the number of dust threads is like throwing a hissy fit because someone dropped a cup of saltwater into a freshwater lake. It's really not much at all, and doesn't interfere with anything, so why in the world should it cause you so much distress??? Come on people...

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VicC
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My D660 OIL
In reply to mdiphoto, Apr 25, 2013

Oil Oil Oil...

Vic

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Robin Casady
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Re: Just Dying To Give Up More Freedom
In reply to chlamchowder, Apr 25, 2013

chlamchowder wrote:

Robin Casady wrote:

Lucky Sky wrote:

Here in the USA, much of the population is hell bent on giving up freedoms as fast as they can shed them. They want not the responsibility for an open forum, but rather wish to take away others' ability to partake in an open forum (read that as free speech). To them, limiting speech is so much easier rather than accepting responsibility for filtering out that speech which is found to be unappealing to them.

Does the Op get upset at the repetitive headlines in the newspapers? It's always SSDD when it comes to the news. Only the names and locations change. I have a feeling that he/she filters that very news by not reading the story that follows the headline, if that headline is found to be unattractive.

But here we have the nanny state..........people who can't do for themselves, so they'd rather just take away your freedom from you to state your case. If only they could.

Freedom requires responsibility. Inundating the forum with basically the same thread over and over and over again is not being a responsible member of the forum. It is a narcissistic tantrum.

I think a large problem here is a misunderstanding of the "freedom of speech" concept. My interpretation of freedom of speech is that people are allowed to express themselves, and are expected to tolerate other people expressing themselves, even if they don't want to hear it.

There's going to be continuing discussion on the dust problem, especially since there's no evidence that Nikon has a clear solution. It's a very relevant topic to a lot of people. Quite a few people own D600s, and quite a few people considering that camera will be doing research on potential problems. I can see that some people don't want to see such threads, but I don't think that problem can be solved without placing limits on free speech (which would be extremely undesirable).

The main problem here really seems to be a clash of ideologies. Some of us want to preserve the free expression that this forum provides. Some of us wish to limit the number of threads they don't want to read. It's basically a question of whether we want to conform to the USA model of tolerating what others say, versus the China/North Korea/Soviet Union model of hiding/purging speech that's considered undesirable. I personally favor the USA model, and wouldn't like this site to switch over to the other model. However, I definitely wouldn't mind if dissatisfied DPR forum members went out and made a separate "make me happy" forum where dust threads aren't allowed. I just don't think a forum that doesn't want to discuss rather important and relevant topics could be useful.

By the way, I think saying the forum is "inudated" with dust threads is a gross exaggeration. I went through the first page of threads, and counted 6 titles out of 60 related to dust/oil with the D600. What's particularly significant is how I had to actively look for dust threads in order to find them. I don't understand at all how some people have become so agitated and fixated on them. They do pop up once in a while, but whining about the number of dust threads is like throwing a hissy fit because someone dropped a cup of saltwater into a freshwater lake. It's really not much at all, and doesn't interfere with anything, so why in the world should it cause you so much distress??? Come on people...

There is a difference between redundant threads and new information. I think very few, if any, would wish to suppress new information. What many of us object to is the repetition of old information.

For those who say, just skip over what you don't want to read, how would we distinguish between redundant threads and new information?

BTW, where did the idea come from that his is a venue for free speech? It is not. This forum has restrictions. The rules begin with:

"In posting a message you are agreeing to the rules laid out below."

Religious and political speach has never been welcome here. Sexual content is banned. Personal attacks are banned. Discussing moderator actions is not allowed. This is not a free speech venue.

Bashing is not allowed. Bumping is frowned upon. So, posting the same angry statements over and over—to keep the topic at the top of the forum—could be considered a violation of the rules.

The rules also state:

"The forums are provided as a free service; please don't ruin them for everyone else."

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"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts."
— Bertrand Russell

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chlamchowder
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Re: Just Dying To Give Up More Freedom
In reply to Robin Casady, Apr 25, 2013

There is a difference between redundant threads and new information. I think very few, if any, would wish to suppress new information. What many of us object to is the repetition of old information.

Again, why is this a problem? I would be hard pressed to find a forum where a relevant topic that many members are concerned about isn't discussed multiple times. It's even possible for a single topic to push all other ones off the first few pages of threads. If that were the case, there might be an argument for action because that subject prevents people from discussing other subjects, but that's certainly not what's happening here.

Furthermore, new people come to the forum all the time, and some people don't check the forum very often. You can't assume everyone on the forum has read through hundreds of previous threads and knows what you know.

Moreover, even though you personally may not be interested in the D600 dust issues, I think plenty of other people are. In addition to being a minor nuisance, the dust problem reflects Nikon's attitude and ability to resolve problems. That seems important, especially to people with a significant investment in Nikon glass, or people looking to make a decision. (don't want to buy into a system that can't address problems that come up)

For those who say, just skip over what you don't want to read, how would we distinguish between redundant threads and new information?

That problem applies to all threads, not just D600 dust threads. It is impossible (just by looking at the title) to say whether a thread contains information you haven't seen before.

If we wanted to remove redundant information, that would involve removing posts about D600/700/800/3/4 features, shortcomings, strengths, handling, and so on. There'd be no end to what "repetitive info" is removed. After all, that information has been discussed before...many, many times.

Bringing in new information should definitely never be a requirement for a post. And there's always room for continuing discussion on a topic.

Also, I was talking about skipping over topics you don't want to read - not pulling new information across the whole forum. It's very easy to tell whether a thread is about a topic you're interested in just by looking at the title. And if that's not true, then title-writing-skills would be the problem.

BTW, where did the idea come from that his is a venue for free speech? It is not. This forum has restrictions. The rules begin with:

"In posting a message you are agreeing to the rules laid out below."

Religious and political speach has never been welcome here. Sexual content is banned. Personal attacks are banned. Discussing moderator actions is not allowed. This is not a free speech venue.

Bashing is not allowed. Bumping is frowned upon. So, posting the same angry statements over and over—to keep the topic at the top of the forum—could be considered a violation of the rules.

The rules also state:

"The forums are provided as a free service; please don't ruin them for everyone else."

Of course there are restrictions, mostly put in place to keep things on the subject of the forum. Perhaps my previous statements should be made clearer - I'm in support of people saying whatever they want on the forum as long as it's relevant to Nikon FX DSLRs (or whatever that forum's subject is). And D600 dust is undeniably relevant to that topic.

Censorship of on-topic posts IMO goes against the forum's goals. It's a place for discussion - not a "read stuff to feel good" site.

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