First Post - D800 soon, Please Advise: Which first two lenses?

Started Apr 21, 2013 | Discussions
lnaru78
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Re: First Post - D800 soon, Please Advise: Which first two lenses?
In reply to r0gue, Apr 25, 2013

I would recommend 24-70 2.8 and a 50 1.8. I find that these 2 lenses cover most of my needs. I WANT many other lenses however :).

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Cytokine
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Re: First Post - D800 soon, Please Advise: Which first two lenses?
In reply to r0gue, Apr 25, 2013

I think many of the review sites especially those that have a link to a store have to be taken with a pinch of salt, as the new model of every lens type is always better.

One of these sites has also discovered that tiny mistakes in tests can show large errors, especially in the corners of lens tests, the other problem with the too technical sites is that they are gear-heads like many people here, and not necessarily very creative, while the real creative photographers are choosing lenses that help them earn money and reputation.

Lenses are like tools and over the years they have been adapted to achieve a specific purpose, a lens like the old 50 AFD 1.4 is a good example, it is soft wide open and gradually gets sharper, until f5.6 /f8 when it really becomes sharp. So the portrait photographer can shoot the wrinkled mother in law a bit blurred, the bride and groom a bit sharper and children sharper still. And most importantly the photographer will get paid as everyone is happy.

The Nikon af 85mm 1.4D has very rapid blur because the edges are not as-sharp as the centre, and the 26,000 photo examples at flickriver, many from very gifted photographers, are amazing. As the lens is stopped down, like the fifty it gets sharper and sharper. Once again giving the photographer a series of choices, although it is sharper wide open than the Fifty, I would say the goldilocks zone. Also the bokeh is amazing, I think much better than the 1.4g version where sharpness fights the blur and it is just not as creamy, though creative photographers might take the slightly strange 85mm 1.4G blurr and make some new form of creative photographic look.

I am interested in creative lenses, and not lenses that are sharp at every f-stop, corner to centre, that will take pictures like a cheap POS, ie very boring.

If you hold out your thumb at arms length, the thumb nail is the size that a human eye can focus on, the picture is made from scanning the photograph, usually from the centre, and is then processed by the brain. Pictures are far more interesting if each scanned area is creatively different, concentrating and directing our brains processing along a pleasant slightly varied path, we will form an opinion of the subject almost immediately before we even look at the edges.

You can look up your lens here to see what other people have done with it:http://www.flickriver.com/lenses/nikon/ and sometimes, they will say what tricks they used.

John

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Guidenet
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Re: Perturbed by the Rudeness and Hostility on these Forums
In reply to r0gue, Apr 25, 2013

r0gue wrote:

Thanks so much to all of you!  So, I believe that I will likely start with two primes:

NIKKOR 50mm f/1.4G Pretty much everyone recommended this one.
NIKKOR 85mm F/1.8G or maybe the 1.4
.... I can buy these at any time because they are not on sale.

But there is a sale on the three telephoto lenses if I buy them with the D800 by Saturday. Here are my choices. Any of these worth having and worth taking advantage of this promotion? If so, Of these, Which would you pick?  -- or would you pass on these and stick with whats recommended above?

70-300mm f/4.5-5.6G AF VR IF-ED    
$200.00 Off    
Final Price:$386.95

28-300mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR Zoom Lens
   $150.00
 Off  Final Price:$896.95

24-85mm f/3.5-4.5G AF-S ED VR Lens  

$100.00
 Off  Final Price:$496.95

Also Speedlights are on sale, but not deeply discounted.
SB-910 AF Speedlight $50 Off
,    SB-700 AF Speedlight $30 Off

Of those three zoom lenses, I'd avoid the 28-300. That's my bias, but I think you get a good SLR so you can match the right lens to the job. The 28-300 is a jack of all trades lens but doesn't do any of them that well. That 10x zoom ratio requires so many various design compromises, I just don't think it's up to a quality job. Your D800 easily out resolves it by quite a bit.

I think the other two are good solid consumer level zoom and will do quite nicely. The most important starting out would be the mid-zoom 24-85 f/3.5-4.5 VR.

Either of those speedlights will do nicely. The SB910 is slightly more sophisticated and maybe a little more powerful, but the SB700 is just fine and will do the job unless you're a professional event or wedding photographer.

I think you might find the cheaper 50 f/1.8G is a slightly better lens than the more expensive 50 f/1.4G. It's both faster operating and a bit sharper, but think it over. Many of us just don't use that middle ground very much. They are very popular more because they are so inexpensive rather than so useful. Remember, this is opinion. There are some who like that middle ground. I would get the 24-85 first then see where you take the most images. Is it at the wide end, middle or telephoto end? That's part of what I mean by mastering one lens to tell you what the best choice is next.

Even though I said to get just one lens, that 70-300 VR price is just a bit too on sale to pass up. I'd snap it up. It's a great all purpose consumer telephoto.

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RichyjV
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Re: Perturbed by the Rudeness and Hostility on these Forums
In reply to r0gue, Apr 25, 2013

r0gue wrote:

Guidenet wrote:

I'd start with whatever normal zoom you can get as part of a kit or bundled package with the camera. All the choices are excellent. The inexpensive 24-85 VR would make a great middle zoom. So would the expensive 24-70 f/2.8 or the 24-120 f/4. See what's a good buy and start there.

For a prime lens, I'd either consider the 28 f/1.8G or the excellent 85 f/1.4G. That 85 f/1.4G is sort of a magical lens for portraits. The 85 f/1.8G is a whole lot cheaper but lacks some of that magic glass the more expensive model has.

Thanks so much to all of you!  So, I believe that I will likely start with two primes:

NIKKOR 50mm f/1.4G Pretty much everyone recommended this one.
NIKKOR 85mm F/1.8G or maybe the 1.4
.... I can buy these at any time because they are not on sale.

But there is a sale on the three telephoto lenses if I buy them with the D800 by Saturday. Here are my choices. Any of these worth having and worth taking advantage of this promotion? If so, Of these, Which would you pick?  -- or would you pass on these and stick with whats recommended above?

70-300mm f/4.5-5.6G AF VR IF-ED    
$200.00 Off    
Final Price:$386.95

28-300mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR Zoom Lens
   $150.00
 Off  Final Price:$896.95

24-85mm f/3.5-4.5G AF-S ED VR Lens  

$100.00
 Off  Final Price:$496.95

Also Speedlights are on sale, but not deeply discounted.
SB-910 AF Speedlight $50 Off
,    SB-700 AF Speedlight $30 Off

The 50 is a little close to the 85, you aren't covering much there and have nothing that can shoot wider or groups. I suggest again the sigma 35mm 1.4 with the 85 1.8g, then you cover much more than the 50mm. The sigma is a stunning lens, one of the very best of recent years, and you can stitch 2 shots together in a panorama to simulate a wider lens too.

Of the sale lenses, none. The flashes.. well maybe but with a 1.4 lens you might not use them much.. I don't think the reductions are worth buying it with a 'just in case' attitude, after a few months you will know if you want one. My SB-700 sits in a desk or stays in my bag 99% of the time I am out shooting. The 28-300 will compare very badly to the primes you are buying, the other two will compare pretty badly to them. They are good value consumer lenses but are only 6/10 lenses on the D800, if you had a smaller resolution camera they would be good value 8/10, but as you are spending lots of money on top quality, you might as well get the quality rather than put average glass in front of it (and lots of people are happy to do just that, but you'd be better off buying a cheaper camera then). Generally its a bad idea to spend far more on the camera than on the lenses.. there is the odd prime lens which is excellent despite its cheap cost (like the 85 1.8G), but the only zooms really worthy of the D800 are the ones that cost a lot. In 5 years time the D800 will be worth 30% or so of what you paid, the lenses might be worth 70-80%, and will generally last much longer than the camera, so better to slowly collect quality lenses.

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r0gue
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Re: Perturbed by the Rudeness and Hostility on these Forums
In reply to RichyjV, Apr 25, 2013

Ok, I'm considering going with the Sigma 35mm rather than the 50mm NIKKOR.  One quick question though is that the reason I added the 85mm was a fear of haveing to be too "in the face" with my subjects based on what I read about the 50mm.  Wouldn't the 35mm require you to be right on the subject?  Also, being further back with (for instance) the 50 or the 85mm, if I can still get a good shot, wouldn't I have the ability to crop down while retaining excellent resolution with the 36MP array?  Just some thoughts/questions I had regarding that idea.

Also, is it generally an accepted fact then that the 1.4 NIKKOR is always better than the 1.8 NIKKOR in like-for-like revisions like the G?  So the 1.4G 85mm NIKKOR is preferred over the 1.4G NIKKOR,  and the same for the 50mm NIKKOR?

Finally as I see the point about quality glass, I'm thinking highest quality primes now.  Much of my previous notitions were based on reviews by Trey Ratcliff, but now I think my weighting toward his preferences may have been skewed as he is a travel photog that doesn't like to carry extra lenses or switch lenses, and everything he shoots gets HDR'd anyway.  I will be a hobby photog and wish to shoot interesting landscapes (perhaos some HDR) of my local area.  Local interest stuff.  I want vivid wonderful shots of my children and loved ones too.

I'm so excited and thank you all deeply for the intensely well articulated and thought out direction.

Again, current thinking is:

  1. Either the Sigma 35mm1.4 or the NIKKOR 50mm1.4 pending thoughts on cropping down the 50mm shots.  The 50mm NIKKOR is cheaper by a $400 in a similar 1/4 arrangement and it got good reviews. 
  2. Also still planning on an 85mm NIKKOR.  The 1.8G got good reviews but I'm not against upgrading to the 1.4G if it is at all better???  After all, this is a long term purchase.

As I see al the points about the telephoto, I may just accept that the telephoto is a huge compromise yet buy the 70x300 anyways because it's nearly half off to give me a reach out and grab it lens if I need it, and to have it to play with.  When I'm done with it, if I decide it was an error to buy it, it seems I won't lose much with that kind of a discount.

Thoughts?

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Antony John
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Re: First Post - D800 soon, Please Advise: Which first two lenses?
In reply to r0gue, Apr 25, 2013

You've bought yourself a great camera capable of superb results.

I'm sure you want to see the best IQ out of the camera that you can get - which means getting good glass. All glass is not equal, however and some will perform better than others.

Nikon I believe has recommendations for the D800 and Roger of Lensrentals has published his own list here:

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/03/d800-lens-selection

I'd thus put in some good money to get the best IQ - even if it means only one lens at present - as I think you mentioned, you're in it for 'the long term' and glass will always outlast your camera technology if treated well.

So, up to you, decide what focal length is really your favourite and buy a quality lens accordingly.

Probably not what you want to hear (no definitive answer) but only you can decide what you want to shoot.

Otherwise there are some great suggestions above you can mull over - but don't forget to add a competent tripod and head! They're a necessity to get the best from most cameras but even more so with 36 MP 'on tap'.

Good luck and enjoy

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AJ
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zzzzzzzzzzz
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Re: Perturbed by the Rudeness and Hostility on these Forums
In reply to PHXAZCRAIG, Apr 25, 2013

PHXAZCRAIG wrote:

Don't just decide to go with a D800 because a lot of people are moving from DX to FX and the D800 is probably the best FX DSLR out there.   FX isn't a natural 'upgrade path' from DX.  It's more of a different beast altogether, with different strengths and weaknesses.

This post makes a lot of sense.  To be honest, someone who has never owned an SLR before and has to ask "what lens should I buy" probably should not start out with a D800.  A D3200 kit would make more sense as a starter kit.  In a few years after you improve your skills and the D800 is old news you can sell your D3200 and upgrade to the D900e.

This post was not meant to be rude or hostile.  There is nothing wrong with a D3200.  Is there something you will not be able to do with a D3200 or a D5200?

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mattr
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What I would do...
In reply to r0gue, Apr 25, 2013

r0gue wrote:

I will be a hobby photog and wish to shoot interesting landscapes (perhaos some HDR) of my local area.  Local interest stuff.  I want vivid wonderful shots of my children and loved ones too.

Whether your shots are "vivid and wonderful" depends largely on your skills as a photographer and post processor, of course.

As an initial set for the D800 I would get:

18-35G - Excellent landscape/architecture lens.

50/1.8G - Simply a "must have" for Nikon FF. This is the lens sorely missing in the Canon lineup.

Tamron 70-300 VC - Surprisingly good from 70-250, only slightly soft at 300, very effective VC.

OK, this is three lenses but they cover pretty much the whole range and you can add later based on your preferences some faster optics. The lenses from the original set would still be useful for light weight travel for example.

If you just want one lens, I would pick the 24-85 VR.

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mattr
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Re: +2
In reply to Anthony Nadia, Apr 25, 2013

Anthony Nadia wrote:

Tommot1965 wrote:

I cant understand why people are trying to get you into a lower end camera just because you are new to DSLR's....I would by the D800 if the funds are not a issues...

My sentiments exactly!!!!!  Could it be jealousy?

I agree. The D800 is overall an excellent choice. If you have the money it makes no sense at all to pick lower end instead

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r0gue
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Re: Perturbed by the Rudeness and Hostility on these Forums
In reply to zzzzzzzzzzz, Apr 25, 2013

zzzzzzzzzzz wrote: Is there something you will not be able to do with a D3200 or a D5200?

Actually yes, the D3200 or D5200 won't be able to be a D800 when I get to the point where I've earned the right to own a D800.  I know that sounds a bit rude, and I genuinely do not wish for it to sound rude.  I respect your opinion, and the fact that you've taken the time to give it to me. But I just want to get a full frame and not play the upgrade game later.  And particularly I want to buy quality glass that supports full frame.

My wife has been in to photography in the past, but it's been ages as she has spent the last decade and a half rearing our children.  Here's her old rig!

I know for sure, that if I got a D3100 I'd be happy with it now.  But I think there's a good chance, that I'd regret it later and do the upgrade.  I'm staring at my underspec'd MacBook Air right now, and wondering when my MacBook Pro will arrive.  Should be about a week!  work is paying for that one!)  hehe

I know I "should" take more time to learn more about the lenses and should know more.  But the sale is on now, and I'll be buying at some point anyway.

Please, sincerely,  no offense intended.  Just trying to make my point that you don't have to be an expert to own good gear.  I promise not to pretend to be an expertjust because I own it.

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r0gue
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Re: First Post - D800 soon, Please Advise: Which first two lenses?
In reply to Antony John, Apr 25, 2013

Antony John wrote:

You've bought yourself a great camera capable of superb results.

I'm sure you want to see the best IQ out of the camera that you can get - which means getting good glass. All glass is not equal, however and some will perform better than others.

Nikon I believe has recommendations for the D800 and Roger of Lensrentals has published his own list here:

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/03/d800-lens-selection

I'd thus put in some good money to get the best IQ - even if it means only one lens at present - as I think you mentioned, you're in it for 'the long term' and glass will always outlast your camera technology if treated well.

So, up to you, decide what focal length is really your favourite and buy a quality lens accordingly.

Probably not what you want to hear (no definitive answer) but only you can decide what you want to shoot.

Otherwise there are some great suggestions above you can mull over - but don't forget to add a competent tripod and head! They're a necessity to get the best from most cameras but even more so with 36 MP 'on tap'.

Good luck and enjoy

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AJ
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Agreed on all accounts.  Is Roger saying if the lens (while listed in his list), but NOT linked, is not reccomended?  I.E. the linked lenses are as good?

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r0gue
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Re: What I would do...
In reply to mattr, Apr 25, 2013

mattr wrote:

r0gue wrote:

I will be a hobby photog and wish to shoot interesting landscapes (perhaos some HDR) of my local area.  Local interest stuff.  I want vivid wonderful shots of my children and loved ones too.

Whether your shots are "vivid and wonderful" depends largely on your skills as a photographer and post processor, of course.

As an initial set for the D800 I would get:

18-35G - Excellent landscape/architecture lens.

50/1.8G - Simply a "must have" for Nikon FF. This is the lens sorely missing in the Canon lineup.

Tamron 70-300 VC - Surprisingly good from 70-250, only slightly soft at 300, very effective VC.

OK, this is three lenses but they cover pretty much the whole range and you can add later based on your preferences some faster optics. The lenses from the original set would still be useful for light weight travel for example.

If you just want one lens, I would pick the 24-85 VR.

Re: the 50/1.8G,.. is the 1.4 better than the 1.8?  It seems people generally feel they are.  I understand the depth of field is tighter, but I also get that maybe there are coating difference?

I'm going to pick the primes for now since so many folks are in agreement that they are pretty good glass.  I'm going to hold off on the telephotos.

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zzzzzzzzzzz
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Re: Perturbed by the Rudeness and Hostility on these Forums
In reply to r0gue, Apr 25, 2013

r0gue wrote:

Actually yes, the D3200 or D5200 won't be able to be a D800 when I get to the point where I've earned the right to own a D800.

In what way would a 3200/5200 limit your photography?  Why are you so drawn to FX?  What could you do with a D800 that you can't do with a 3200/5200?  FWIW, I own both a D800 and a D7000 and FX is not always the best tool for the job.

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r0gue
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Re: Perturbed by the Rudeness and Hostility on these Forums
In reply to zzzzzzzzzzz, Apr 26, 2013

zzzzzzzzzzz wrote:

r0gue wrote:

Actually yes, the D3200 or D5200 won't be able to be a D800 when I get to the point where I've earned the right to own a D800.

In what way would a 3200/5200 limit your photography?  Why are you so drawn to FX?  What could you do with a D800 that you can't do with a 3200/5200?  FWIW, I own both a D800 and a D7000 and FX is not always the best tool for the job.

I guess I just don't see the detriment other than cost.  If you're building a rig "greenfield", I can't see a downside to the ability to shoot 1080 video at 30fps, shoot and crop down without loosing resolution, and so on.  As array pricing comes down, I (admitedly its a fairly uninformed guess) would assume DX would be less and less prevalent.  In that case., I like the idea of having FX lenses.

What is the downside beyond the fact that my skill set on day one will not take appropriate advantage of the platform?

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Cytokine
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Re: Perturbed by the Rudeness and Hostility on these Forums
In reply to zzzzzzzzzzz, Apr 26, 2013

Since the 1920's FX was the norm, and DX the newcomer, many of us here started with film slr's!

One of the problems with starter cameras is they often lack the basics like DOF buttons etc. Start with the best you can afford and learn to use it, and if you must have lots of pixels then FX is better, in that the pixels are bigger.

DXO Mark (technical boffin's) are saying that as mega-pixels increase, the ability of CMOS sensors to take advantage of fast lenses becomes more limited.

The other thing I find strange, is all this talk about special lenses for the D800, unless there are now special extra large frames and computer screens being specially made. most people will print the same size as the did before. For which 6 MP was probably adequate. But now if you want to you can put your photos on the side of a bus to see the extra IQ. And the price is that your camera will shift ISO at large apertures because the sensors pixels and micro lenses cant see the extra light! Thats progress!!!!! but its great for pixel peepers.

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zzzzzzzzzzz
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Re: Perturbed by the Rudeness and Hostility on these Forums
In reply to Cytokine, Apr 26, 2013

Cytokine wrote:

Since the 1920's FX was the norm, and DX the newcomer, many of us here started with film slr's!

I'm part of that crowd.

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PHXAZCRAIG
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Re: Perturbed by the Rudeness and Hostility on these Forums
In reply to r0gue, Apr 26, 2013

r0gue wrote:

Thanks so much to all of you!  So, I believe that I will likely start with two primes:

NIKKOR 50mm f/1.4G Pretty much everyone recommended this one.
NIKKOR 85mm F/1.8G or maybe the 1.4

I've got both the above lenses, purchased recently and only used so far on my D800e.  (Which is also a recent purchase).

The 85F1.8g is quite the nice lens - seems better wide open than the 50f1.4, in terms of CA.  But I've not yet shot it much.    I dd take the 50 out on a couple of shoots where I simply wanted to have some of the best resolution I could get.   I'm not sure if it really shows up my 24-70, but it was kind of fun to shoot.  I've not carried a 'nifty-fifty' for quite a while as it's not a particularly fun focal range to me.

What I think is a better two prime lens set is one that has more spread in focal range.  The classic pair is a 35 and an 85.   If you're more of a wide angle kind of shooter, then a 24 and a 50.    50 and 85 are just too close.

The problem is that Nikon hasn't giving us some affordable, high-IQ 24's and 35's.    The 1.4's are just too expensive.  The 24F2.8AF-D is a pretty mediocre lens.  The 35F1.8 is DX.   The new 28F1.8g seems like a decent possibility, except I keep reading comments about the weird field curvature it has.

I've got a Sigma 35F1.4 on order now.   Read so many good things about it, and saw such good results wide open that I can't really pass it up.   And I'm not a Sigma fan - my only other Sigma is an incredibly poor 400F5.6 that disappointed me for years until I just boxed it back up and shelved in the garage somewhere.     Should be very interesting to see how I get along with the new 35.

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PHXAZCRAIG
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Re: Perturbed by the Rudeness and Hostility on these Forums
In reply to r0gue, Apr 26, 2013

r0gue wrote:

  1. Also still planning on an 85mm NIKKOR.  The 1.8G got good reviews but I'm not against upgrading to the 1.4G if it is at all better???  After all, this is a long term purchase.

I bought the 85F1.8g when the rebates were on.  Had been working toward a 1.4 but couldn't quite justify it.

The 1.8 indeed seems as good as it's reputation (though I've not shot it much yet).   I STILL can't justify the 1.4, but somehow I still wonder if I would have liked it even more.

Just because of that itch that doesn't go away, I'd say just get the 1.4g, pair it with a Sigma 35F1.4, and be happy.

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Antony John
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Re: First Post - D800 soon, Please Advise: Which first two lenses?
In reply to r0gue, Apr 26, 2013

r0gue wrote:


Nikon I believe has recommendations for the D800 and Roger of Lensrentals has published his own list here:

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/03/d800-lens-selection

Agreed on all accounts.  Is Roger saying if the lens (while listed in his list), but NOT linked, is not reccomended?  I.E. the linked lenses are as good?

Yes, as I understand it those with links are recommended.

But I think Roger eventually gave up on the listing when others started to argue why their lens wasn't listed as 'preferred' - as seems to be the norm these days (arguments).

Roger does a good job I believe and is one of the few I trust.

Ming Thein's site:

http://blog.mingthein.com/equipmentdatabase/

is another good one IMO.

Obviously all opinions are somewhat subjective, even my own.

At the sake of repetition: Don't forget the good tripod! - they're not cheap and you should factor one in from the financial aspect.

Cheers.

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AJ
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six34sigma
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Re: First Post - D800 soon, Please Advise: Which first two lenses?
In reply to r0gue, Apr 26, 2013

Read the article from lensrentals, you can then select and buy the lenses. It discusses good lens deals but also the not so inexpensive lenses. Should provide you good direction.

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/03/the-best-lens-bargains

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Sanjay

 six34sigma's gear list:six34sigma's gear list
Nikon D90 Nikon D7100 Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 16-85mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D Tokina AT-X Pro 11-16mm f/2.8 DX +3 more
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