New pc build with i7 3770K

Started Apr 21, 2013 | Discussions
philmar
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Re: WD green drives stink
In reply to philmar, May 1, 2013

I decided on the mobo.

I was about to buy the ASUS P8Z77-V. It lacked the multi-GPU features I wasn't interested in and I liked ASUS implementation of Turbo Boost and MultiCore Enhancement. t looked like that gives their boards a bit better erformance at stock.  But ASUS has a rebate that ended yesterday on the ASUS P8Z77-V Pro Thunderbird. Coupled with a sale price at an online enndr I was able to get one for cheaper than the P8Z77-V. So i get all the wireless connectivity for free. And I am futureproofed for TB if it ever becomes mainstream on Intel boards within the next 5 years (the estimated lifespan of this build).

MEMORY - WTF to buy for memory? Since I am not OC'ing this build does it make any sense to get anything faster than 1333GHz sticks?

Do I care about voltage or CAS latency? I hope not because I don't have a clue what latency is and always hated trying to understand voltage and latency. I do know I need DDR3  240-pin DIMM modules.

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Jim Cockfield
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Yep, I'd buy the Seagate over a WD green
In reply to kelpdiver, May 1, 2013

kelpdiver wrote:

Jim, you really need to be open to new data when you tell these stories.   Making a strawman statement like - 'do what you like, but I like my data' gives short shrift to discussion.

The 8 sec parking issue is resolvable - w3idle.   And then it does in fact work fine in unix land.  My zfs array continues to spin along, and periodic scrubbing (2 weeks) confirms no bad sectors developing.   Now as I wrote earlier, it did have a rather poor DOA rate when I built the array in fall 2011, though I extend that to drives in general these days.

The last one I had in use started giving me only 5595 power on hours (233 days), and had been running 24x7.

I realized it had an issue after writing a linux distro to a partition I had setup on it and got errors trying to use it (and the md5sum of the source media on a USB Flash drive was fine); finding the WD green drive was the issue.

The load cycle count is well withing rated specs, and wasn't even showing any reallocated sectors yet (although it had 64 sectors pending reallocation and 17 offline uncorrectable according to the SMART data).   It wouldn't even pass a short self test without read failures 10% into it.

That seems to be typical of my experience with them, not realizing I have a problem until too late --- usually during backups and seeing sector read errors (which is the way the one that had issues before that one starting failing, even though SMART data looked OK), or because I start seeing odd errors using apps that turns out to be a drive issue.

I've got a couple more sitting on a shelf with issues, even though they still run (just keeping them as extra backups since they have sector read errors and I don't trust them for use anymore).

I don't even want to bother to zero fill them and see if they're correctable, since I just don't trust the WD Green drives anymore.

Suit yourself.  But, I sure won't buy any more of them.

The fact that you went on to recommend a Seagate 4tb green drive, despite their pretty bad history of late with 1.5s, 2s, 3s, makes me wonder 'WTF?'   You can't rationally write off an entire WD product line based on minimal experience, and then accept a new product from its rival despite their history.

Yep, I'd buy that Seagate Model over a WD Green Drive.

The one I pointed to has *all* positive reviews at newegg so far (9 out of the 10 reviews so far have been 5 stars, with one of them 4 stars.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822178326

It's a new design using 1TB platters from what I understand.

So yep, I'd buy it over a WD Green drive for sure.  Try to find a WD Green drive with 10 four or five star reviews in a row.   It doesn't look like newegg has any 4TB WD Green Drives. But, here's one of the 3TB models:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=22-136-874

So, which one do you think I'd buy? The Seagate with 9 out of 10 reviews at 5 stars so far, with the other review rating at it 4 stars; or the WD Green with an average 3 star rating so far?

Sure, It's too soon to tell about long term reliability of a brand new model like that Seagate.   But, initial reviews are positive, and I know from personal experience that WD Green Drives stink (at least the ones I've bought so far).

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Jim Cockfield
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P.S. -- typical user...
In reply to Jim Cockfield, May 1, 2013

Jim Cockfield wrote:

kelpdiver wrote:

Jim, you really need to be open to new data when you tell these stories.   Making a strawman statement like - 'do what you like, but I like my data' gives short shrift to discussion.

The 8 sec parking issue is resolvable - w3idle.   And then it does in fact work fine in unix land.  My zfs array continues to spin along, and periodic scrubbing (2 weeks) confirms no bad sectors developing.   Now as I wrote earlier, it did have a rather poor DOA rate when I built the array in fall 2011, though I extend that to drives in general these days.

Sorry... call it a straw man argument if you like.  But, IMO, the load cycle behavior is a real drawback to the WD Green Drives, as the constant parking/unparking of the drive heads is probably contributing to the problems with them.

BTW, a typical user isn't going to know to run utilities to try and update parameters in the drive's firmware, or how to look at SMART Data and run drive self tests, etc.

They're probably going to suspect other causes for their issues, not realizing they have a drive issue until they lose important data.

But, that's not the most important thing... sector read errors inside of a year of use (the behavior I've seen with all of them I've bought) is the main problem with them, and their firmware seems reluctant to map bad sectors to spares (just leaving them in a "pending reallocation" state instead, meaning you're more like to see issues in real world use with them from what I can see of the way they work).

I'm not buying any more of them.

The last one I had in use started giving me only 5595 power on hours (233 days), and had been running 24x7.

I realized it had an issue after writing a linux distro to a partition I had setup on it and got errors trying to use it (and the md5sum of the source media on a USB Flash drive was fine); finding the WD green drive was the issue.

The load cycle count is well withing rated specs, and wasn't even showing any reallocated sectors yet (although it had 64 sectors pending reallocation and 17 offline uncorrectable according to the SMART data).   It wouldn't even pass a short self test without read failures 10% into it.

That seems to be typical of my experience with them, not realizing I have a problem until too late --- usually during backups and seeing sector read errors (which is the way the one that had issues before that one starting failing, even though SMART data looked OK), or because I start seeing odd errors using apps that turns out to be a drive issue.

I've got a couple more sitting on a shelf with issues, even though they still run (just keeping them as extra backups since they have sector read errors and I don't trust them for use anymore).

I don't even want to bother to zero fill them and see if they're correctable, since I just don't trust the WD Green drives anymore.

Suit yourself.  But, I sure won't buy any more of them.

The fact that you went on to recommend a Seagate 4tb green drive, despite their pretty bad history of late with 1.5s, 2s, 3s, makes me wonder 'WTF?'   You can't rationally write off an entire WD product line based on minimal experience, and then accept a new product from its rival despite their history.

Yep, I'd buy that Seagate Model over a WD Green Drive.

The one I pointed to has *all* positive reviews at newegg so far (9 out of the 10 reviews so far have been 5 stars, with one of them 4 stars.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822178326

It's a new design using 1TB platters from what I understand.

So yep, I'd buy it over a WD Green drive for sure.  Try to find a WD Green drive with 10 four or five star reviews in a row.   It doesn't look like newegg has any 4TB WD Green Drives. But, here's one of the 3TB models:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=22-136-874

So, which one do you think I'd buy? The Seagate with 9 out of 10 reviews at 5 stars so far, with the other review rating at it 4 stars; or the WD Green with an average 3 star rating so far?

Sure, It's too soon to tell about long term reliability of a brand new model like that Seagate.   But, initial reviews are positive, and I know from personal experience that WD Green Drives stink (at least the ones I've bought so far).

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kelpdiver
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Re: P.S. -- typical user...
In reply to Jim Cockfield, May 1, 2013

Jim Cockfield wrote:

Sorry... call it a straw man argument if you like.  But, IMO, the load cycle behavior is a real drawback to the WD Green Drives, as the constant parking/unparking of the drive heads is probably contributing to the problems with them.

BTW, a typical user isn't going to know to run utilities to try and update parameters in the drive's firmware, or how to look at SMART Data and run drive self tests, etc.

Yes, this is the definition of a straw man- you write that they have problems with head parking, and when pointed out the rather obvious solution, your reply is 'typical users don't know about this.'  That's a bad dodge. So is presenting your anecdotal information as universal truth.

And then to cite a new model with a whopping 10 reviews...is grasping at straws.

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Jim Cockfield
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10 in a row
In reply to kelpdiver, May 1, 2013

kelpdiver wrote:

Jim Cockfield wrote:

Sorry... call it a straw man argument if you like.  But, IMO, the load cycle behavior is a real drawback to the WD Green Drives, as the constant parking/unparking of the drive heads is probably contributing to the problems with them.

BTW, a typical user isn't going to know to run utilities to try and update parameters in the drive's firmware, or how to look at SMART Data and run drive self tests, etc.

Yes, this is the definition of a straw man- you write that they have problems with head parking, and when pointed out the rather obvious solution, your reply is 'typical users don't know about this.'  That's a bad dodge. So is presenting your anecdotal information as universal truth.

And then to cite a new model with a whopping 10 reviews...is grasping at straws.

Show me a WD Green Drive that has ten 4 or 5 star reviews in a row.   

As I mentioned, sure it's too soon to determine long term reliability of a new drive design.  But, initial reviews of it at newegg.com are *all* positive.   You just don't see that kind of thing with WD Green drives (9 out of 10 five star reviews, and the other one at 4 stars).

You'd be lucky to see half as many reviews in a row without a 1 star review about problems with a WD Green Drive (1 star, only because they don't allow zero star reviews).

Again, sure, you can find utilities to change the timers related to head parking in firmware (but, a typical user is not going to realize that).

But, that's not even the main issue (although I suspect the excessive load cycles contribute to the drive problems with WD Green Models).  Sector Read errors inside of a year of use is the issue I've had with them, even though SMART data showed the firmware hadn't reallocated any bad sectors to spares (leaving them in a "pending reallocation" state instead.

IMO, that's horrible behavior, since users may not realize their disk drive is what's causing their issues until they lose important data.

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Jim Cockfield
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example....
In reply to Jim Cockfield, May 1, 2013

Jim Cockfield wrote:

But, that's not even the main issue (although I suspect the excessive load cycles contribute to the drive problems with WD Green Models).  Sector Read errors inside of a year of use is the issue I've had with them, even though SMART data showed the firmware hadn't reallocated any bad sectors to spares (leaving them in a "pending reallocation" state instead.

IMO, that's horrible behavior, since users may not realize their disk drive is what's causing their issues until they lose important data.

Example (SMART info from the last one I had problems with after only 233 days of power on time).   It had not reallocated any sectors to spares (leaving 64 of them in  "pending reallocation" state), and couldn't even get past 10% of short self tests without read failures:

== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Model Family:     Western Digital AV-GP family
Device Model:     WDC WD15EVDS-73V9B0
Serial Number:    WD-WMAVU2482427
Firmware Version: 01.00A01
User Capacity:    1,500,301,910,016 bytes
Device is:        In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
ATA Version is:   8
ATA Standard is:  Exact ATA specification draft version not indicated
Local Time is:    Wed May  1 15:13:19 2013 EDT
SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
SMART support is: Enabled
=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED
General SMART Values:
Offline data collection status:  (0x84) Offline data collection activity
                                        was suspended by an interrupting command from host.
                                        Auto Offline Data Collection: Enabled.
Self-test execution status:      ( 121) The previous self-test completed having
                                        the read element of the test failed.
Total time to complete Offline
data collection:                 (35400) seconds.
Offline data collection
capabilities:                    (0x7b) SMART execute Offline immediate.
                                        Auto Offline data collection on/off support.
                                        Suspend Offline collection upon new
                                        command.
                                        Offline surface scan supported.
                                        Self-test supported.
                                        Conveyance Self-test supported.
                                        Selective Self-test supported.
SMART capabilities:            (0x0003) Saves SMART data before entering
                                        power-saving mode.
                                        Supports SMART auto save timer.
Error logging capability:        (0x01) Error logging supported.
                                        General Purpose Logging supported.
Short self-test routine
recommended polling time:        (   2) minutes.
Extended self-test routine
recommended polling time:        ( 255) minutes.
Conveyance self-test routine
recommended polling time:        (   5) minutes.
SCT capabilities:              (0x303f) SCT Status supported.
                                        SCT Error Recovery Control supported.
                                        SCT Feature Control supported.
                                        SCT Data Table supported.
SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 16
Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE      UPDATED  WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
  1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x002f   200   200   051    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  3 Spin_Up_Time            0x0027   214   186   021    Pre-fail  Always       -       4275
  4 Start_Stop_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       50
  5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   200   200   140    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x002e   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
  9 Power_On_Hours          0x0032   093   093   000    Old_age   Always       -       5662
 10 Spin_Retry_Count        0x0032   100   253   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
 11 Calibration_Retry_Count 0x0032   100   253   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
 12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       38
192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       19
193 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   141   141   000    Old_age   Always       -       179657
194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   113   108   000    Old_age   Always       -       37
196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0032   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0032   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       64
198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0030   200   200   000    Old_age   Offline      -       17
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count    0x0032   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
200 Multi_Zone_Error_Rate   0x0008   199   199   000    Old_age   Offline      -       261
SMART Error Log Version: 1
No Errors Logged
SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
Num  Test_Description    Status                  Remaining  LifeTime(hours)  LBA_of_first_error
# 1  Short offline       Completed: read failure       90%      5610         1435135086
# 2  Short offline       Completed: read failure       90%      5596         1435131440
# 3  Short offline       Completed: read failure       90%      5595         1339288601

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Jim Cockfield
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Another one....
In reply to Jim Cockfield, May 1, 2013

Jim Cockfield wrote:

Jim Cockfield wrote:

But, that's not even the main issue (although I suspect the excessive load cycles contribute to the drive problems with WD Green Models).  Sector Read errors inside of a year of use is the issue I've had with them, even though SMART data showed the firmware hadn't reallocated any bad sectors to spares (leaving them in a "pending reallocation" state instead.

IMO, that's horrible behavior, since users may not realize their disk drive is what's causing their issues until they lose important data.

SMART Data from another one (I've got some sitting on a shelf that I don't trust for use anymore) and slapped another one into a docking station to look at SMART data from it.

No sectors were reallocated to spares (same behavior I've seen with the other WD drives that I've had issues with).  I noticed the problems with this one when a backup failed with sector read errors (so I ended up using ddrescue to try and work around the bad sectors to get a good disk image backup of it (and they were "hard" read errors, too).

This one did make it to a bit over a year (close to 16 months from what I can see of power on hours).    But, that's still absurd, especially since the drive firmware didn't even try to remap sectors it must have known had issues, as it has 30 sectors pending reallocation from what the current SMART data shows.

Load Cycle count (over 400,000) had also exceeded the drive's rated specifications of 300,000 (unlike the last one I posted SMART data from, which was still within specs), which may have contributed to problems.

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Model Family:     Western Digital Caviar Green (Adv. Format) family
Device Model:     WDC WD6400AARS-00Y5B1
Serial Number:    WD-WCAV56172920
Firmware Version: 80.00A80
User Capacity:    640,135,028,736 bytes
Device is:        In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
ATA Version is:   8
ATA Standard is:  Exact ATA specification draft version not indicated
Local Time is:    Wed May  1 15:28:02 2013 EDT
SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
SMART support is: Enabled
=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED
General SMART Values:
Offline data collection status:  (0x84) Offline data collection activity
                                        was suspended by an interrupting command from host.
                                        Auto Offline Data Collection: Enabled.
Self-test execution status:      (   0) The previous self-test routine completed
                                        without error or no self-test has ever
                                        been run.
Total time to complete Offline
data collection:                 (12660) seconds.
Offline data collection
capabilities:                    (0x7b) SMART execute Offline immediate.
                                        Auto Offline data collection on/off support.
                                        Suspend Offline collection upon new
                                        command.
                                        Offline surface scan supported.
                                        Self-test supported.
                                        Conveyance Self-test supported.
                                        Selective Self-test supported.
SMART capabilities:            (0x0003) Saves SMART data before entering
                                        power-saving mode.
                                        Supports SMART auto save timer.
Error logging capability:        (0x01) Error logging supported.
                                        General Purpose Logging supported.
Short self-test routine
recommended polling time:        (   2) minutes.
Extended self-test routine
recommended polling time:        ( 148) minutes.
Conveyance self-test routine
recommended polling time:        (   5) minutes.
SCT capabilities:              (0x3035) SCT Status supported.
                                        SCT Feature Control supported.
                                        SCT Data Table supported.
SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 16
Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE      UPDATED  WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
  1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x002f   200   200   051    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  3 Spin_Up_Time            0x0027   143   129   021    Pre-fail  Always       -       5825
  4 Start_Stop_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       166
  5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   200   200   140    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x002e   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
  9 Power_On_Hours          0x0032   085   085   000    Old_age   Always       -       11530
 10 Spin_Retry_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
 11 Calibration_Retry_Count 0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
 12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       165
192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       67
193 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   063   063   000    Old_age   Always       -       413539
194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   120   104   000    Old_age   Always       -       27
196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0032   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0032   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       30
198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0030   200   200   000    Old_age   Offline      -       24
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count    0x0032   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
200 Multi_Zone_Error_Rate   0x0008   200   200   000    Old_age   Offline      -       29
SMART Error Log Version: 1
No Errors Logged-

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Jim Cockfield
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IOW, firmware behavior is absurd
In reply to Jim Cockfield, May 1, 2013

IOW, Western Digital's  Firmware behavior is absurd from those WD drive models, leaving problem sectors in a "pending" state versus remapping them to spares when problems are first detected.

Hint: don't trust the SMART data from them.

Better yet, just don't buy the cheaper WD Drive models like that, as you probably won't know they have issues until you lose important data.

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kelpdiver
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Re: 10 in a row
In reply to Jim Cockfield, May 1, 2013

Jim Cockfield wrote:

But, that's not even the main issue (although I suspect the excessive load cycles contribute to the drive problems with WD Green Models).  Sector Read errors inside of a year of use is the issue I've had with them, even though SMART data showed the firmware hadn't reallocated any bad sectors to spares (leaving them in a "pending reallocation" state instead.

IMO, that's horrible behavior, since users may not realize their disk drive is what's causing their issues until they lose important data.

You don't.  I will.   ZFS scrubbing tells me if read errors are present.  A gradual failure of this nature will be visible in advance.

Again, you're selling your personal experience as the normal expected experience, without suitable foundation to do so.

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Jim Cockfield
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Re: 10 in a row
In reply to kelpdiver, May 2, 2013

kelpdiver wrote:

Jim Cockfield wrote:

But, that's not even the main issue (although I suspect the excessive load cycles contribute to the drive problems with WD Green Models).  Sector Read errors inside of a year of use is the issue I've had with them, even though SMART data showed the firmware hadn't reallocated any bad sectors to spares (leaving them in a "pending reallocation" state instead.

IMO, that's horrible behavior, since users may not realize their disk drive is what's causing their issues until they lose important data.

You don't.  I will.   ZFS scrubbing tells me if read errors are present.  A gradual failure of this nature will be visible in advance.

Again, you're selling your personal experience as the normal expected experience, without suitable foundation to do so.

Suitable foundation, huh?

All of the  WD Green drives I've purchased so far (not even the same models or sizes), had the same problems (premature problems due to sector read errors, with none of the bad sectors mapped to spares, only seeing sectors that are "pending" reallocation in the SMART data queries instead).

Yep... that's my personal experience with them.

But, of course, if you want the experience of others, just read through the customer reviews at vendors.   From what I can see of the customer reviews of WD Green Models at newegg.com, most of them average 3 out of 5 stars, with *lots* of 1 star reviews in the mix due to premature drive failures..

I do see one model (a 2TB WD Green Drive) that managed to make an average of 4 stars.  But, that's the exception to the norm from what I can see there.

Heck, even you mentioned having a "poor DOA rate" with WD Green Drives. So, perhaps you got some from a better batch when you RMAd them.

In any event, my personal experience with them has been very bad (and I'm not alone, judging from customer reviews at vendor sites).

Sure, Seagate doesn't have the greatest of reputations either.  But, as mentioned in my first post to this thread, if I were looking for a "budget high capacity drive" (as the OP appears to be doing), I'd avoid the WD Green drives and go with the new Seagate model I mentioned instead, as it's using a brand new design (and it's got 10 positive customer reviews *in a row* now at newegg.com -- with 9 out of 10 of those reviews rating it a 5 stars), which is something I don't see skimming through the reviews of any of the WD Green Models there.

BTW, I've *never* had a Seagate drive fail (for example, I've got a 1TB 7200.09 model that's been working great for years).

Perhaps I've just been lucky with Seagate, and unlucky with Western Digital.  But, when you have multiple WD Green Drives with problems, even though they're different models and sizes, all with the same symptoms (sector read errors, with the drive firmware just marking them as "pending" versus reallocating them to spares), you'd probably avoid WD Green drives going forward, too.

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kelpdiver
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Re: 10 in a row
In reply to Jim Cockfield, May 2, 2013

Jim Cockfield wrote:

Heck, even you mentioned having a "poor DOA rate" with WD Green Drives. So, perhaps you got some from a better batch when you RMAd them.

actually, I've had poor DOA rates with all 2tb models I've seen, aside from the Samsung (which is now owned by Seagate)

Perhaps I've just been lucky with Seagate, and unlucky with Western Digital.  But, when you have multiple WD Green Drives with problems, even though they're different models and sizes, all with the same symptoms (sector read errors, with the drive firmware just marking them as "pending" versus reallocating them to spares), you'd probably avoid WD Green drives going forward, too.

Sure.  Anyone would move on.   But unless your experience includes 100s or 1000s of units over a multi year period, the experience probably isn't statistically significant.  Put it this way - WD can't afford to meet their warranty obligations at the failure rate you assert is endemic to the line.

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philmar
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Re: 10 in a row
In reply to kelpdiver, May 2, 2013

MEMORY - WTF to buy for memory? Since I am not OC'ing this build does it make any sense to get anything faster than 1333GHz sticks?

Do I care about voltage or CAS latency? I hope not because I don't have a clue what latency is and always hated trying to understand voltage and latency. I do know I need DDR3  240-pin DIMM modules.

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ilysaml
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Re: 10 in a row
In reply to philmar, May 2, 2013

philmar wrote:

MEMORY - WTF to buy for memory? Since I am not OC'ing this build does it make any sense to get anything faster than 1333GHz sticks?

I guess there's no much more of DDR3 1333MHz in the market today. The difference between DDR3 1600-2133MHz is negligible in most cases. So just get DDR3 1600MHz.

Do I care about voltage or CAS latency? I hope not because I don't have a clue what latency is and always hated trying to understand voltage and latency. I do know I need DDR3  240-pin DIMM modules.

Yes, stick with 1.5V rams, most of the modules are CL9, don't get anything higher than this. The lower latencies are also marketing gimmick and not worthy the premium.

Quality RAMs are from Corsair, Kingston, Patriot, and my favorite G.SKILL.

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Chris Noble
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Keeping your SSD running fast
In reply to Roland Wooster, May 2, 2013

Roland Wooster wrote:

I've read that some SSDs slow down after a year.

Don't worry about it, if you have Win7, a single SSD, and it's a new one, it won't slow down significantly at all, that is until you fill it up beyond ~90%, then it might start slowing.

Roland.

Don't allocate the last 10% of your SSD's raw capacity. That way, the TRIM routine will always have that space available to move data around for load-levelling.

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Jim Cockfield
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Reviews of memory for that Motherboard model...
In reply to philmar, May 2, 2013

I'd go 2x8GB (versus 4x4GB).  That way, you'll have free slots if you decide to add more memory later.

One good way to tell if memory is going to work OK is by searching through customer reviews of desktop memory at newegg.com for a specific MB model.   For example, here's a search of desktop memory reviews using a search for P8Z77-V Pro (which is what I understand you ordered for a MB):

http://www.newegg.com/FeedBack/CustratingAllReview.aspx?DEPA=0&N=40000147&Order=5&Pagesize=&Page=1&Keywords=P8Z77-V+Pro

Since one customer with that motherboard model said this set of 2x8GB works fine in that MB (scroll through those reviews and you'll see it), and newegg.com has 15% off Promo Code for it right this minute (good through May 6), I'd probably get it (since after the promo code, your cost would be down to $106.24 delivered for 2x8GB 1.5v 1600mhz DDR3 9-9-9 CL9 type memory, which is fast enough.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231568

If the Promo Code isn't visible on the listing page (it is  for me, but I'm signed into my account there), you'll find it on this e-mail specials page:

http://promotions.newegg.com/NEemail/Apr-0-2013/top10fame30/index-landing.html?nm_mc=EMC-IGNEFL043013&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL043013-_-EMC-043013-Index-_-E0-_-PromoWord

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Jim Cockfield
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Ooops -- you're in Canada
In reply to Jim Cockfield, May 2, 2013

Ooops.

I see you're in Canada according to your profile.   I don't know if the same promo code works on their Canada site or not.   Here's the newegg.ca listing for that same memory:

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231568

Or, look through the customer reviews I posted a link to in my last post and see if any of the other brands of memory with a good reputation are less expensive, if they have similar timing (and I'd go with a set of 2x8GB 1.5v 1600Mhz DDR3 with CL9 latency if I were you, so you'd have two slots free for adding more later if you needed to).

I'd also check with amazon, etc. to see if they may have a better price, too (just search for the specific manufacturer part numbers for a set of memory to make sure it matches up to what users of that MB model have found works OK in it).

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philmar
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Re: Ooops -- you're in Canada
In reply to Jim Cockfield, May 2, 2013

thanks a ton for your help Jim!

I have been using pcpartpicker.com for price comparison and it is useful for compatibility. they also have a completed builds section where peoples' builds are arted. You can use the filter to drill down to builds similar to the one you are building.

I have subscribed to Newegg.ca e-mail promos so i believe i have a code that i can enter as well. We'll see f that is the cheapest price. Ordering online in Canada can be complicated. One can order a more expensive item from an out of province vendor yet pay less if the provincial sales taxes waived  makes it cheaper than a lest costly in-province vendor...

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Jim Cockfield
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another canada vendor
In reply to philmar, May 2, 2013

Here's another canadian vendor that appear to have a pretty good price on that set (G.Skill part number F3-1600C9D-16GXM, which I see other users of the P8Z77-V Pro say works fine in it in the customer reviews at newegg.com), for $116.97 with free shipping right this minute:

http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=15380AC8257&vpn=F3-1600C9D-16GXM&manufacture=G.SKILL

I found the listing via a quick google search for the same part number.

So, if newegg.ca doesn't have a promo code available (like they do in the U.S. for that set right now), you may want to look at directcanada.ca, too.

I know nothing about Canadian vendors (so do your own research in that area).  But, they appear to have mostly positive reviews at sites like resellerratings.com:

http://www.resellerratings.com/store/Direct_Canada

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philmar
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Re: Ooops -- you're in Canada
In reply to philmar, May 2, 2013

s/b "where peoples' builds are rated "

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Phil M. - Toronto, Canada
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Jim Cockfield
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6 rows down on the left
In reply to philmar, May 2, 2013

Here's that same 2x8GB G.Skill set (part number F3-1600C9D-16GXM ) at newegg Canada on one of their e-mail specials pages.   It's 6 rows down on the left hand side, where their Canada site also has a promo code you can use for it.

http://promotions.newegg.ca/NEemail/latest/index-landing.aspx

That appears to be a "generic" link they use for their current specials (I found it by clicking on the current "e-mail specials" link from the main page at newegg.ca).

IOW, it may change the next time they send out something new.

So ,I grabbed a screen capture of it showing the special (bottom left hand side of the following screen capture of that page):

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4536228/newegg_ca_e-mail1.jpeg

It's $.110.49 + $6.99 shipping from their Canada site right now after a promo code from what I can tell.  Direct Link to the product (before entering any promo code at checkout to get the better price):

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231568

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