Why only 1/1250s @ f2.8 on DP2 Merrill?

Started Apr 21, 2013 | Questions
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Hardy Steiner Senior Member • Posts: 2,442
Why only 1/1250s @ f2.8 on DP2 Merrill?

So we finally had a sunny day yesterday and I wanted to take a picture at f2.8 on my DP2 Merrill. I had the dial on M and as it was very bright I just dialed in a fast shutter speed (like one I would normally use on the SD1) ... took the picture and it turned out dark. I got suspicious and then I saw in the viewfinder that suddenly the aperture was set on f4. Ok, I thought that I must have done something wrong and after playing a bit more around I realized that even in M the DP2 increases that aperture when you dial in a very fast shutter speed ... and then I remembered that it said something about this in the instructions.

Now, this basically meant that I couldn't take the picture like I wanted. I'd like to understand the reason behind limiting the shutter speed like this? If I want to take a portrait shot on a bright day at f/2.8 I can't because it's not possible (unless I happen to have a ND filter with me which I would have to buy in the first place).

Looking at the instructions it says that from f2.8 to f3.5 you can only have a shutter speed as fast as 1/1250s, from f4 to f5 1/1600s and finally from f5.6 to f16 1/2000s.

So why can I not have 1/2000s at f2.8 where I am more likely to use it than at f5.6?

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Hardy
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ANSWER:
Panasonic Lumix DMC-F5 Sigma DP2 Sigma DP2 Merrill Sigma SD1
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victorgv Senior Member • Posts: 1,337
Re: Why only 1/1250s @ f2.8 on DP2 Merrill?
3

Short answer speed of leaf shutter limitations. It serves also as aperture and because for f/2.8 it has to open more you get longer exposure . With  smaller opening you will get faster shutter speed.

Leafs of shutter can open and close only so fast.

Hardy Steiner wrote:

So we finally had a sunny day yesterday and I wanted to take a picture at f2.8 on my DP2 Merrill. I had the dial on M and as it was very bright I just dialed in a fast shutter speed (like one I would normally use on the SD1) ... took the picture and it turned out dark. I got suspicious and then I saw in the viewfinder that suddenly the aperture was set on f4. Ok, I thought that I must have done something wrong and after playing a bit more around I realized that even in M the DP2 increases that aperture when you dial in a very fast shutter speed ... and then I remembered that it said something about this in the instructions.

Now, this basically meant that I couldn't take the picture like I wanted. I'd like to understand the reason behind limiting the shutter speed like this? If I want to take a portrait shot on a bright day at f/2.8 I can't because it's not possible (unless I happen to have a ND filter with me which I would have to buy in the first place).

Looking at the instructions it says that from f2.8 to f3.5 you can only have a shutter speed as fast as 1/1250s, from f4 to f5 1/1600s and finally from f5.6 to f16 1/2000s.

So why can I not have 1/2000s at f2.8 where I am more likely to use it than at f5.6?

-- hide signature --

Best regards,
Hardy
==================
Join the Sigma DP Macro Group on:
http://www.flickr.com/groups/sigma_dp_macro/
My pictures on:
On Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/diddy

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selected answer This post was selected as the answer by the original poster.
PicOne
PicOne Veteran Member • Posts: 6,923
Re: Why only 1/1250s @ f2.8 on DP2 Merrill?

victorgv wrote:

Short answer speed of leaf shutter limitations. It serves also as aperture and because for f/2.8 it has to open more you get longer exposure . With  smaller opening you will get faster shutter speed.

Leafs of shutter can open and close only so fast.

I know this is the answer... what I'm curious about is why shutter speeds of 1/4000 to 1/8000 etc.. aren't achievable with f/8 and smaller..   Ie. why does the Tv to Av relationship stop having an impact at f/5.6 ?

Hardy Steiner wrote:

So we finally had a sunny day yesterday and I wanted to take a picture at f2.8 on my DP2 Merrill. I had the dial on M and as it was very bright I just dialed in a fast shutter speed (like one I would normally use on the SD1) ... took the picture and it turned out dark. I got suspicious and then I saw in the viewfinder that suddenly the aperture was set on f4. Ok, I thought that I must have done something wrong and after playing a bit more around I realized that even in M the DP2 increases that aperture when you dial in a very fast shutter speed ... and then I remembered that it said something about this in the instructions.

Now, this basically meant that I couldn't take the picture like I wanted. I'd like to understand the reason behind limiting the shutter speed like this? If I want to take a portrait shot on a bright day at f/2.8 I can't because it's not possible (unless I happen to have a ND filter with me which I would have to buy in the first place).

Looking at the instructions it says that from f2.8 to f3.5 you can only have a shutter speed as fast as 1/1250s, from f4 to f5 1/1600s and finally from f5.6 to f16 1/2000s.

So why can I not have 1/2000s at f2.8 where I am more likely to use it than at f5.6?

-- hide signature --

Best regards,
Hardy
==================
Join the Sigma DP Macro Group on:
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Hardy Steiner OP Senior Member • Posts: 2,442
Re: Why only 1/1250s @ f2.8 on DP2 Merrill?

Interesting! Thanks for letting me know. So I have to get an ND filter then I guess. What's the best one to get: 2x or 4x? 4x or?

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Best regards,
Hardy
==================
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Jim Funston Senior Member • Posts: 1,690
Re: Why only 1/1250s @ f2.8 on DP2 Merrill?

Hardy Steiner wrote:

Interesting! Thanks for letting me know. So I have to get an ND filter then I guess. What's the best one to get: 2x or 4x? 4x or?

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Hardy
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Variable.......

Roland Karlsson Forum Pro • Posts: 24,560
Re: Why only 1/1250s @ f2.8 on DP2 Merrill?

PicOne wrote:

I know this is the answer... what I'm curious about is why shutter speeds of 1/4000 to 1/8000 etc.. aren't achievable with f/8 and smaller..   Ie. why does the Tv to Av relationship stop having an impact at f/5.6 ?

This is what it says in the user manual.

30s ~ 1/1250s : F2.8 ~ F16
1/1600s : F4.0 ~ F16
1/2000s : F5.6 ~ F16

Seems quite reasonable I think.

You have to remember that the diameter of the aperture is the sqrt of the area. So, if the shuttewr moves linear, then you need two stops to gian a stop in shutter speed. So ... then the max shutter speed (at F2.8) would be 1/4000. Now, I assume the movement is not linear, but much faster in the beginning and end to minimize the problem. Then you wont gain much.

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Roland Karlsson Forum Pro • Posts: 24,560
Re: Why only 1/1250s @ f2.8 on DP2 Merrill?

Jim Funston wrote:

Hardy Steiner wrote:

Interesting! Thanks for letting me know. So I have to get an ND filter then I guess. What's the best one to get: 2x or 4x? 4x or?

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Hardy
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Variable.......

Not that I really know. Is really variable ND filters of high optical quality? And are they of neutral color and does not polarize?

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Hardy Steiner OP Senior Member • Posts: 2,442
Re: Why only 1/1250s @ f2.8 on DP2 Merrill?

I googled for them now but I couldn't find one renown filter manufacturers like Hoya.

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mike earussi Veteran Member • Posts: 5,775
Re: Why only 1/1250s @ f2.8 on DP2 Merrill?

Hardy Steiner wrote:

I googled for them now but I couldn't find one renown filter manufacturers like Hoya.

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Hardy
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They're out there, but very expensive: http://philipbloom.net/2011/06/04/the-best-variable-nd-filter-i-have-used/

For what you're wanting, a straight ND filter should be sufficient.

Hardy Steiner OP Senior Member • Posts: 2,442
Re: Why only 1/1250s @ f2.8 on DP2 Merrill?

Thanks Mike! Yes, I think I just go for a normal one ... 4x would be the best, or?

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Hardy
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mike earussi Veteran Member • Posts: 5,775
Re: Why only 1/1250s @ f2.8 on DP2 Merrill?

Hardy Steiner wrote:

Thanks Mike! Yes, I think I just go for a normal one ... 4x would be the best, or?

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Hardy
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4x is a good start unless you're wanting the smooth water look, then you need 10x.

Hardy Steiner OP Senior Member • Posts: 2,442
Re: Why only 1/1250s @ f2.8 on DP2 Merrill?

Ok, excellent, thanks a lot! I put my order in then.

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Hardy
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Erik Magnuson Forum Pro • Posts: 12,237
Combined shutter/aperture mechanism
1

Hardy Steiner wrote:

I'd like to understand the reason behind limiting the shutter speed like this?

Because the shutter blades and the aperture blades are the same mechanism.  They can obviously close from a small aperture faster than from a large.   The alternative would be to limit the top speed to the wide open speed.   This is not uncommon on fixed lens digital cameras (e.g. Ricoh GR).

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Erik

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IVN Senior Member • Posts: 1,763
Of course you can use f2.8 under bright sunlight

Look at this: http://fotogenerellinternational.wordpress.com/2013/04/17/finally-spring/

There are several images at f2.8, ISO100 and 1/1250. It turnes out to be enough so you can shoot wide open without overexposing. And if you do, you can pull the highlights down a bit (there is enough headroom in the RAWs) and get even smoother files.

Hardy Steiner OP Senior Member • Posts: 2,442
Re: Of course you can use f2.8 under bright sunlight

Many thanks for pointing this out. This might work in quite a lot of cases, but I must admit that I had some SD1M pictures where I couldn't recover the blown out/overexposed areas properly. In the meantime I received the ND filter (Kenko Pro1 4x ND) and it seems to be working fine.

You have quite a nice selection of pictures on your blog!

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Hardy
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3dreal Senior Member • Posts: 2,271
Re: Why only 1/1250s @ f2.8 on DP2 Merrill?

Hardy Steiner wrote:

Interesting! Thanks for letting me know. So I have to get an ND filter then I guess. What's the best one to get: 2x or 4x? 4x or?

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Best regards,
Hardy
==================
Join the Sigma DP Macro Group on:
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a variable one. there are quality ones which do not change colors etc. except density. pls ask the experts.

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