Office printer: laser or inkjet AIO, help please – what options?

Started Apr 20, 2013 | Discussions
Hugowolf
Forum ProPosts: 11,504
Like?
Office printer: laser or inkjet AIO, help please – what options?
Apr 20, 2013

I realize this forum is really dedicated to photo printing; I am mostly answering questions rather than asking them, but I have a question and would truly respect opinions and thoughts, not just well founded knowledge.

I run an Epson 17 inch 3880 and Epson 44 inch 9890 for photo imaging. I have an HP 309a all-in-one for color and black and white office printing, and an HP 2300d laser for black and white printing on office paper. The HP 2300d has stopped being consistent for duplexing, but still prints fine single sided (or manual duplexing) albeit a little noisier than it used to be. The HP 309a works fine, and the photo prints from it are surprisingly good on RC paper, but the tiny cartridges cost a small fortune and it is annoying to have to replace them so often – most of the ink seems to go during maintenance cycles.

The HP 2300d laser has printed the equivalent of 39,397.8 sides of US letter paper (A4 ish), at an average ink coverage of 4.93% per side. I haven’t kept logs of when I buy toner cartridges or reams of paper, but I would estimate that a cartridge lasts through 8 to 10 reams of paper (4,000 to 5,000 sheets), so a cost of about 3-4¢ per side; maybe less. The Laser cartridges are larger then most and cost about $160 each.

I don’t know how much longer the 2300d laser will last. If I could find a maintenance manual online, I would try to open it up and give it a good cleaning, but I suspect that some of the parts are starting to wear out, especially the nylon cogs. I have just bought a new $160 cartridge, but I am considering returning it and putting the money towards a new printer.

I would love to replace the laser and all-in-one with just one printer. HP are advertising their 8600 series inkjet printers as being ‘cheaper than laser’. Can this be true?

So, some of my many questions (perhaps you can add some that I am forgetting): Is there an all-in-one inkjet out there that would have the duty cycle of my current laser? Should I just bite the bullet and when the laser dies buy another B&W laser. Do they make small laser printers like the 2300d any more with large toner cartridges and 24 ppm?

Brian A

Zone8
Forum ProPosts: 15,668
Like?
Re: Office printer: laser or inkjet AIO, help please – what options?
In reply to Hugowolf, Apr 20, 2013

Whether this helps or not ??? - but here goes.  B+W lasers have the big advantage of the speed of printing large numbers, as I am sure you already know because they are in reality described best and most accurately as being "page printers" - meaning the information is sent once from the computer and then stored in the laser's memory (most can be upgraded from original RAM) to thus be able to print as many copies as required at true quoted pages per minute throughput without, like inkjets, having to send the information every time per page.

I found the most efficient and best lasers I used for general work (not photo, although were fine for such as newsletters and brochures) were those from the OKI stable - and I must also add the OKI colour lasers gave really well above average photo reproduction too.  The B+W OKI lasers I opted for used cartridges - with the drum being for the lifetime (and could be changed) so unlike most lasers of the HP base, did not change the drum with each cartridge, meaning integrated - a bit like many HP inkjets that have expensive cartridges because they incorporate the printheads.  Thus, changing a cartridge was a relatively inexpensive affair by comparison for the OKIs.  I did (after seeing a few years ago a Best Buy report on the Kyocera laser, that also only changed the cartridge and not the drum) buy a Kyocera - worst mistake ever made.  First jammed after 20 pages, replacement not much better - and I had brought new from UK to Spain - got first changed before move as I tried it out, thankfully but it was hopeless at paper feeding - so ended sitting in my garage and I got a new drum for the older OKI which I thankfully kept and that is still going strong.

I use an Epson DX7400 for general work (AIO with compatible dye inks) but if wanting to print, say, 150 pages for a newsletter (A4 pages with some small illustrations) will require the refillables to be refilled after only about 120 pages through - cheap to run and decent quality for purpose but hardly a speed fiend - only use this instead of the laser if the illustrations are required in colour.  Reason for not using a CIS?  Well, I did in fact install 2 in sequence but in both cases (and have found this happens in different inkjets) the Magenta stopped flowing properly - nothing seemingly wrong with flow tubes in both cases - there just seems to be some basic problem with flow of the Magenta inks in many Epsons - other inks being fine.  Perhaps something to do with the internal electrical settings or drivers - I don't know but no problems with refillables.  A nuisance but at least they work OK, whereas all the CIS units in different Epson models seem to have a similar Magenta problem that appears to be clogged nozzles but actually isn't.  Have always wondered is others have come across this.  I did not find any solution, so have opted to install refillables instead, without any such problems.

So, hope those comments halp in some small way.  Just posted "in case".

-- hide signature --

Zone8: Although I am a handsome genius, when I stand in front of a mirror, I vaguely recognise the ugly idjit standing on the other side!
LINK: For B+W with Epson 1400 (and other models) using black ink only PLUS other useful tips:
http://www.photosnowdonia.co.uk/ZPS/epson1400-B&W.htm
Cleaning DSLR Sensors, including Kodak DSLR Factory Cleaning method:
http://www.photosnowdonia.co.uk/ZPS/KodakDCS-sensorcleaning.htm
Solving back/front focus problems on Sigma and most other DSLRs
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1027&message=35565277
PDF format list of lenses you can print or download - covers Italian Flag YES/NO for DCS 14n but applies to others. http://www.photosnowdonia.co.uk/ZPS/ItiFlagLensList.pdf

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
xrdbear
xrdbear MOD
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,704
Like?
Re: Office printer: laser or inkjet AIO, help please – what options?
In reply to Zone8, Apr 20, 2013

Zone8 wrote:

I did (after seeing a few years ago a Best Buy report on the Kyocera laser, that also only changed the cartridge and not the drum) buy a Kyocera - worst mistake ever made.  First jammed after 20 pages, replacement not much better - and I had brought new from UK to Spain - got first changed before move as I tried it out, thankfully but it was hopeless at paper feeding - so ended sitting in my garage and I got a new drum for the older OKI which I thankfully kept and that is still going strong.

As is always the case everyone has a different experience. I have a Kyocera FS-C5100DN colour laser which we use for office work and the occasional brochure. It has been totally reliable with normal printing, labels (for our egg boxes, full colour pictures of our hens!), business cards and double sided printing. No jams, faultless prints and photographic prints as good as most consumer ink jets (waterproof but not fade proof, though quite good). It just goes to show that buying high tech goods these days is just a lottery and it's difficult to rely on any brand name.

-- hide signature --

Brian
Fine Art Print sales of the Isle of Skye at:
http://www.eyeofskye.co.uk/

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
E Dinkla
Contributing MemberPosts: 557
Like?
Re: Office printer: laser or inkjet AIO, help please – what options?
In reply to Hugowolf, Apr 20, 2013

The recently introduced HP Officejet Pro X have a pagewide stationary inkjet head and large carts. Lifetime, speed and economy on ink should surpass laser printers according HP. No ozon, short startup time etc.

-- hide signature --

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
500+ inkjet paper white spectral plots: OBA content etc.
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Hugowolf
Forum ProPosts: 11,504
Like?
Re: Office printer: laser or inkjet AIO, help please – what options?
In reply to Hugowolf, Apr 21, 2013

Well thank you everyone that responded. I just ordered an HPOfficejet Pro X, the slower of the two all-in-one models of that range. Pigment inks, even if they are twice the cost per sheet of the claims, seemed to hard to pass by. Given the new technology, I went with a three year extend warrantee, something I have never done before.

Xerox has something similar, and I can’t see how this static head technology won’t creep into fine art printers soon. I am thinking 13 inch printers within a year or two.

Thanks again for your input,
Brian A

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Zone8
Forum ProPosts: 15,668
Like?
I am now prompted to do a search but does anyone ....
In reply to Hugowolf, Apr 21, 2013

... have any updated info on the printers that were announced - and were real - about 4 years or so ago that had no moving heads, tons of nozzles right across the paper width and in depth/width too and could print rapidly?  If anyone has the info - please update us - meanwhile I shall try and remember the name.

Update - did a search and is based on the "Oz" (meaning Down Under, Cobber!) Memjet technology.  Here's an info link:  http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2106625,00.asp but has anyone any updated info as well?

-- hide signature --

Zone8: Although I am a handsome genius, when I stand in front of a mirror, I vaguely recognise the ugly idjit standing on the other side!
LINK: For B+W with Epson 1400 (and other models) using black ink only PLUS other useful tips:
http://www.photosnowdonia.co.uk/ZPS/epson1400-B&W.htm
Cleaning DSLR Sensors, including Kodak DSLR Factory Cleaning method:
http://www.photosnowdonia.co.uk/ZPS/KodakDCS-sensorcleaning.htm
Solving back/front focus problems on Sigma and most other DSLRs
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1027&message=35565277
PDF format list of lenses you can print or download - covers Italian Flag YES/NO for DCS 14n but applies to others. http://www.photosnowdonia.co.uk/ZPS/ItiFlagLensList.pdf

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
E Dinkla
Contributing MemberPosts: 557
Like?
Re: I am now prompted to do a search but does anyone ....
In reply to Zone8, Apr 21, 2013

Zone8 wrote:

... have any updated info on the printers that were announced - and were real - about 4 years or so ago that had no moving heads, tons of nozzles right across the paper width and in depth/width too and could print rapidly?  If anyone has the info - please update us - meanwhile I shall try and remember the name.

Update - did a search and is based on the "Oz" (meaning Down Under, Cobber!) Memjet technology.  Here's an info link:  http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2106625,00.asp but has anyone any updated info as well?

-- hide signature --

Zone8: Although I am a handsome genius, when I stand in front of a mirror, I vaguely recognise the ugly idjit standing on the other side!
LINK: For B+W with Epson 1400 (and other models) using black ink only PLUS other useful tips:
http://www.photosnowdonia.co.uk/ZPS/epson1400-B&W.htm
Cleaning DSLR Sensors, including Kodak DSLR Factory Cleaning method:
http://www.photosnowdonia.co.uk/ZPS/KodakDCS-sensorcleaning.htm
Solving back/front focus problems on Sigma and most other DSLRs
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1027&message=35565277
PDF format list of lenses you can print or download - covers Italian Flag YES/NO for DCS 14n but applies to others. http://www.photosnowdonia.co.uk/ZPS/ItiFlagLensList.pdf

Lenovo and another company have one model based on Memjet technology. For one reason or another they made no impact in the office market so far, my paper supplier in The Netherlands had it prominent in the catalog but not anymore. Dye ink only but on the other hand 1.5 picoliter droplets where the HP models do not get smaller than 6 picoliter. In the label industry the Memjet page wide heads seem to get better ground, several manufacturers use this technology. About a year ago Canon (Océ) showed a prototype wide format with several Memjet heads coupled next to one another.

Hugowolf made a wise decision I think to get the maintenance contract, the head assembly is not user replaceable and most likely forms 90% of the total price of the printer. It would be interesting to read his experience with the machine later on in this forum.

HP is not new to page wide inket head assemblies; the Edgeline series, the 36¨ and wider roll to roll,  dual sided, industrial inkjet printers and the dry minilab model that did not do well on the market. Dye and pigment ink models.

-- hide signature --

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
500+ inkjet paper white spectral plots: OBA content etc.
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
xrdbear
xrdbear MOD
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,704
Like?
Re: I am now prompted to do a search but does anyone ....
In reply to Zone8, Apr 21, 2013

Zone8 wrote:

Update - did a search and is based on the "Oz" Down(meaning Down Under, Cobber!) Memjet technology.  Here's an info link:  http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2106625,00.asp but has anyone any updated info as well?

The video on the Memjet home page ( front page is pretty spectacular.

-- hide signature --

Brian
Fine Art Print sales of the Isle of Skye at:
http://www.eyeofskye.co.uk/

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
ZorSy
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,122Gear list
Like?
Re: I am now prompted to do a search but does anyone ....
In reply to Zone8, Apr 23, 2013

I think they were trying to sell technology to Xerox before they got into troubles.. Nth Ryde facility looks deserted, not many people walking in these days. Xerox, on the other hand, has experience with Phaser solid ink and know what head clogging is...we will see I guess. Memjet started claiming they were more into "selling technology" rather than the actual printers - but as far as I know, not many printer manufacturers could sing about last year profit....

 ZorSy's gear list:ZorSy's gear list
Nikon D7100
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Hugowolf
Forum ProPosts: 11,504
Like?
Just set it up
In reply to Hugowolf, Apr 25, 2013

Well the HP Office Pro X 476dn arrived today.

Problems so far:

  • Took about 2 hours unbox and to set up. Blue tape everywhere, but that was expected. Followed the setup instructions, entered the language setting, then it stalled at the region setting. The instructions only mentioned the language setting, then said to install the software, so I went ahead and downloaded the current setup and driver software. It installed (Win 7 64) but couldn’t find the printer, connected via Ethernet (printer to router, and router to computer). I tried installing using the CD on another computer (Win Vista 32), but the same thing happened. Tried to turn the printer off, it wouldn’t. Unplugged the printer. Plugged it back in, and it started calibrating immediately. Both computers then found the printer and it set up ok.
  • No paper user manual. It isn’t a phone, it is a printer. It should have a printed manual.
  • Calibration took 30 minutes, but it did allow printing during calibration.
  • Copier will not copy blues, I hope the scanning function does.
  • Noisier than the laser (HP 2300d)
  • No borderless printing. The printhead is not 8.5 inches, it is only 8 inches. Max print size is 203.2 x 347 mm (8 x 13.7 in). The first document I tried copying, had text almost to the edge.
  • HP software is as murky as usual.

Good points:

  • Amazingly fast. Much faster than the current laser which is rated 25 ppm.
  • Duplexing is very fast too, perhaps about 2.2x slower than single sided
  • Two-sided to two-sided copying.
  • Almost no gloss differential, but heavy bronzing. (I have only tried plain paper and HP Advanced Glossy so far)
  • 500 sheet tray. (The laser had a 250 sheet tray, which wouldn’t take 251 sheets, so you ended up putting only a third of a ream in at a time.)
  • Touch screen controls.

I haven’t had time to look at print quality or color management. And I have yet to hook up the fax.

Brian A

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
jcampy
Senior MemberPosts: 1,032
Like?
Re: Just set it up
In reply to Hugowolf, Apr 28, 2013

I came to this thread a little late but I fix laser printers and can't imagine and inkjet printer being less trouble free than laser if high volume printing is needed. I admit I don't know much about the printer you purchased but if it's like all the other inkjet printers won't it have to do a head cleaning before it actually prints? I can't imagine waiting for this to happen if printing a report or letter that needs to be passed on. Maybe I am just old school but being a service center for Canon and Brother I see the technician fighting to get the covers off the inkjet printers just to look inside to see what's happening while the lasers are much less complicated which in turn means less downtime when something does go wrong. Just clearing a paper jam in inkjet can be problematic for the average user.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Hugowolf
Forum ProPosts: 11,504
Like?
Re: Just set it up
In reply to jcampy, Apr 28, 2013

jcampy wrote:

I came to this thread a little late but I fix laser printers and can't imagine and inkjet printer being less trouble free than laser if high volume printing is needed. I admit I don't know much about the printer you purchased

It is designed for high volume

but if it's like all the other inkjet printers won't it have to do a head cleaning before it actually prints? I can't imagine waiting for this to happen if printing a report or letter that needs to be passed on.

Not so far. And my Epson 3880, for example, has never needed a head cleaning cycle except when switching blacks. It has 6 picolitre nozzles, so much larger than a fine art printer.

Maybe I am just old school but being a service center for Canon and Brother I see the technician fighting to get the covers off the inkjet printers just to look inside to see what's happening while the lasers are much less complicated which in turn means less downtime when something does go wrong. Just clearing a paper jam in inkjet can be problematic for the average user.

Well, that is why I got a three year warranty. But so far, and it is still early days, everything has gone fine.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
digitalshooter
Forum ProPosts: 16,280Gear list
Like?
Take it back and get an all in one color laser only way to
In reply to Hugowolf, Apr 28, 2013

go in an office environment, in my opinion.  You will spend a fortune on ink and it will go out at the worst time.

-- hide signature --

Thanks,
Digitalshooter
PS: all posts are just my opinion!

 digitalshooter's gear list:digitalshooter's gear list
Sony Alpha DSLR-A700 Canon Pixma Pro9000 Mark II
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Hugowolf
Forum ProPosts: 11,504
Like?
Re: Take it back and get an all in one color laser only way to
In reply to digitalshooter, Apr 28, 2013

digitalshooter wrote:

go in an office environment, in my opinion.  You will spend a fortune on ink and it will go out at the worst time.

Ink costs are substantially less than a color laser in the same price range. B&W should be less than 2¢ per US letter at 5% coverage.

Brian A

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads