Nikon D7100 left focus issue

Started Apr 19, 2013 | Discussions
PepsiCan
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Re: I took my Pepsi...
In reply to lock, Apr 20, 2013

lock wrote:

Than read about the incidence of the left sensor af problem in relation to the maximal aperture of the lens, and find the difference between the sigma and the nikon.

Lock

But sorry, no. The results Nikonman gets in his tests are questionable at best and can be attributed to other things besides camera focus failure. The mistakes he makes are:

- no use of single focus point but auto area

- no comparison against a reference, I.e. PDAF vs CDAF

- not clear whether he shoots shutter or focus priority

And this has been pointed out to him many times in the threads he started.

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lock
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Were is your argument about Sigma and Nikon??
In reply to PepsiCan, Apr 20, 2013

That was the point you made. Why switch the topic?

Lock

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lock
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And about his mistakes...
In reply to PepsiCan, Apr 20, 2013

PepsiCan wrote:

lock wrote:

Than read about the incidence of the left sensor af problem in relation to the maximal aperture of the lens, and find the difference between the sigma and the nikon.

Lock

But sorry, no. The results Nikonman gets in his tests are questionable at best and can be attributed to other things besides camera focus failure. The mistakes he makes are:

- no use of single focus point but auto area

irrelevant if you would have studied his samples(see below). The auto area mode only used focus point that were all straight on the box. Left and right samples had confirmed focus lock, both measured at 1.68 mtrs.

- no comparison against a reference, I.e. PDAF vs CDAF

This could differentiate between a lens and body issue. However, he showed two lenses with the same symptoms. It is highly unlikely that these lenses suddenly become e.g. decentered in the same manner, causing the left af to off in both.

- not clear whether he shoots shutter or focus priority

Irrelevant because focus lock was confirmed in all samples.

And this has been pointed out to him many times in the threads he started.

Did you actually take the time to look at the samples he provided on flickr ?

left side 70-200

right side 70-200

AF does fluctuate to some degree. To exclude this random error I would have adviced him to explicitely test the left and right side more than once, but with the same scene. Say 10 times for each. But so far, I'd say he pretty much gave a good hint of the left AF issue (he also posted the 35 mm 1.8 samples).

lock

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PepsiCan
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Re: And about his mistakes...
In reply to lock, Apr 20, 2013

lock wrote:

PepsiCan wrote:

lock wrote:

Than read about the incidence of the left sensor af problem in relation to the maximal aperture of the lens, and find the difference between the sigma and the nikon.

Lock

But sorry, no. The results Nikonman gets in his tests are questionable at best and can be attributed to other things besides camera focus failure. The mistakes he makes are:

- no use of single focus point but auto area

irrelevant if you would have studied his samples(see below). The auto area mode only used focus point that were all straight on the box. Left and right samples had confirmed focus lock, both measured at 1.68 mtrs.

- no comparison against a reference, I.e. PDAF vs CDAF

This could differentiate between a lens and body issue. However, he showed two lenses with the same symptoms. It is highly unlikely that these lenses suddenly become e.g. decentered in the same manner, causing the left af to off in both.

- not clear whether he shoots shutter or focus priority

Irrelevant because focus lock was confirmed in all samples.

And this has been pointed out to him many times in the threads he started.

Did you actually take the time to look at the samples he provided on flickr ?

left side 70-200

right side 70-200

AF does fluctuate to some degree. To exclude this random error I would have adviced him to explicitely test the left and right side more than once, but with the same scene. Say 10 times for each. But so far, I'd say he pretty much gave a good hint of the left AF issue (he also posted the 35 mm 1.8 samples).

lock

uhm...I'm fluent in Dutch and those read outs say he used manual focus (handmatig) at a shutter speed of 1/10?!??

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herbymel
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Re: Yep! Troll alert.
In reply to SaturnN, Apr 20, 2013

SaturnN wrote:

amobi wrote:

SaturnN wrote:

Look, for you and other who insult me as a troll. I cannot post photos because i am away for weekend. And even i could, whay would i? I don't ask or need a confirmation that my camera has a problems, i know it has i tested it. I was just making simple question if this kind of problems are usually a matter of calibration or hardware fault. I am not stupid or blind to not be able to see how good my focus is. I have been able to focus properly for 10 years with different cameras and sudenly i am not able to focus with left wide of d7100? Come on! And yes i created account because of this problem that i have. Why is this strange? Why did you open yours, to insult other  people?

Don't worry about some of these folks. I returned my first copy for left AF issue. Waiting on the second copy. Some D7100 has left AF issues like D800 but it can be fixed. My D800 was fixed.

So you can exchanged it where you bought it or send it in to Nikon. I returned mine because I did not want to deal with Nikon.

Don't ever post pictures because they will find a way to criticize your. It is not so hard to figure it out.

Thank you for answer! I will not demand an exchange i will send the camera to calibration because otherwise it is everithing ok with it and there is no guarantee that new piece would not have the same problem or something other. With calibration done it will be perfect camera.

I'd wait and take some actual pictures with it, what you seem to be saying is more than one left AF sensor is out, the problem with the D800 was just one. It still seems to me that you need to be testing more correctly, or just going out and shooting and seeing how it responds. Probably both to be satisfied. There probably isn't a need to send in the camera for calibration, and if there is an issue they probably don't even have a fix in place yet for this camera.

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PepsiCan
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Re: Were is your argument about Sigma and Nikon??
In reply to lock, Apr 20, 2013

lock wrote:

That was the point you made. Why switch the topic?

Lock

There may be something going on, but not necessarily because of the camera's PDAF. That's my point. His testing is not thorough enough to get to the root cause and exclude all other possibilities. Field curvature in his Sigma's focus plane should also not be excluded.

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Jim_H3
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Re: No reason
In reply to Mako2011, Apr 20, 2013

I posted in a different thread that I experienced the left focus issue and returned the body (#2510357).  I was not going to deal with sending in a brand new camera to have it fixed/calibrated when it should be working correctly out of the box.

I received the camera on a Tuesday, took the camera to Florida on a trip Thursday to visit the parents.  After my forst walk around outside to take some pictures outside and reviewing I decided to do a quick check of the focus inside.  I had already set the shutter to focus priority, was shooting aperture priority (2.8) with both my Tamron 17-50 2.8 and Sigma 70-200 2.8 HSM/OS focusing on the feather details of a duck decoy in the house at the face of a large analog clock hanging on the wall in a very well lit room (natural light and lighting).  The center and right focus points produced great results but the left sensors had issues with the focus.

When we arrived back home I decided to try some more tests again with a tripod and also trying a few different lenses in the mix along with the other two lenses.  I also switched from AF-A to AF-S (AF-A is new to me coming from a D300) so didn't know how much to trust it. I added in a Nikon 50g AF 1.8 and Nikon 18-200 to include some Nikon glass in the tests.  The VR/OS was also switched off on the lenses that had it on the tripod.  This time the focus point was a stuffed duck focusing on the area around the eye.  Same results unfortunately.  Did the same tests with my D300 and things were fine.

I did not test in live view.

I opted to send it back and although I really wanted to like the camera and was growing impatient waiting for a D400 or even moving to FX for a D700 type replacement and although I was disappointed in the buffer (I want higher FPS than what is currently offered in the latest camera models).  Other aspects of the camera I was excited about and with an upcoming trip to China in ~2 months I came to the conclusion that I was not sure I wanted to risk sending it in to be fixed and dealing with the potential back and forth and missing out on the return window.  Spending >1K on a camera, I would just expect it to work properly without limitations.

I am now leaning towards biting the bullet on a used D3S at this point.

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regos
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Re: I took my Pepsi...
In reply to PepsiCan, Apr 20, 2013

What exactly is "focus priority"?

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PepsiCan
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Re: I took my Pepsi...
In reply to regos, Apr 20, 2013

regos wrote:

What exactly is "focus priority"?

On more advanced bodies like the D7xxx and Dxxx series, you can determine whether the camera should take he shot even without focus having been achieved (shutter priority). When you set it to focus priority, it won't take the shot unless focus is achieved. For testing purposes you want to eliminate the chance of purposefully taking a shot out of focus.

On the entry level bodies this feature exists as well, but not as a separate menu item. It comes as part of the combination of settings. Usually, setting the camera to continuous focus (Af-c) and letting it quick fire, will use release priority, while using Af-s sets it too focus priority.

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lock
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manual mode has nothing to do with AF.
In reply to PepsiCan, Apr 20, 2013

It was taken with af on. On a tripod...

Lock

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PepsiCan
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Re: manual mode has nothing to do with AF.
In reply to lock, Apr 20, 2013

lock wrote:

It was taken with af on. On a tripod...

Lock

That's not what the Exif says though. Unless that field refers to something else than the focus mode. I'm not familiar with that software package, so not sure.

Still, this is what I mean with sloppy testing. At 70mm, the shutter speed is way too slow to exclude camera shake as a possible cause as the user had at least one hand on the camera and there was mirror slap.  Retake the shot at 1/140 and compare against a CDAF shot and we'll talk again.

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Mako2011
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In reply to PepsiCan, Apr 20, 2013

PepsiCan wrote:

regos wrote:

What exactly is "focus priority"?

On more advanced bodies like the D7xxx and Dxxx series, you can determine whether the camera should take he shot even without focus having been achieved (shutter priority). When you set it to focus priority, it won't take the shot unless focus is achieved. For testing purposes you want to eliminate the chance of purposefully taking a shot out of focus.

In a tripod setup it really is unnecessary to use focus priority. You can see the green light and continue to shoot as the target and camera no longer move after focus lock and in AF-S focus will not change once locked.

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PepsiCan
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Re: no need
In reply to Mako2011, Apr 20, 2013

Mako2011 wrote:

PepsiCan wrote:

regos wrote:

What exactly is "focus priority"?

On more advanced bodies like the D7xxx and Dxxx series, you can determine whether the camera should take he shot even without focus having been achieved (shutter priority). When you set it to focus priority, it won't take the shot unless focus is achieved. For testing purposes you want to eliminate the chance of purposefully taking a shot out of focus.

In a tripod setup it really is unnecessary to use focus priority. You can see the green light and continue to shoot as the target and camera no longer move after focus lock and in AF-S focus will not change once locked.

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My opinions are my own and not those of DPR or its administration. They carry no 'special' value (except to me and Lacie of course)

I disagree. Not everyone is carefully enough to first press the shutter button half way and wait for focus to lock. Also, if your lens is too close to the target and you are not in focus priority, you will take an out of focus shot. Set things to focus priority and you prevent such mistakes from influencing your test results. It is a test so control the environment so results cannot be questioned and conclusions can be drawn unambiguously.

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spbStan
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Re: How to test for focus issues
In reply to PepsiCan, Apr 20, 2013

Wonder why he picked "left focus" problem instead of being more creative and come up with a new real or imagined problem.

I am moderator of the largest Nikon on-line community and have many threads going on the D7100 and what has been most notable has been the almost universal praise for it. That is very rate with any brand. No one has reported a left focus point problem.

Given the almost total silence about problems with the D7100, I would say this lone report by someone who does not understand how to test, and does not have time or ?? to post intact images, I would suggest more evidence than what has(hasn't) been offered thus far.

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Mako2011
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AF-ON
In reply to PepsiCan, Apr 20, 2013

PepsiCan wrote:

Mako2011 wrote:

PepsiCan wrote:

regos wrote:

What exactly is "focus priority"?

On more advanced bodies like the D7xxx and Dxxx series, you can determine whether the camera should take he shot even without focus having been achieved (shutter priority). When you set it to focus priority, it won't take the shot unless focus is achieved. For testing purposes you want to eliminate the chance of purposefully taking a shot out of focus.

In a tripod setup it really is unnecessary to use focus priority. You can see the green light and continue to shoot as the target and camera no longer move after focus lock and in AF-S focus will not change once locked.

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I disagree. Not everyone is carefully enough to first press the shutter button half way and wait for focus to lock. Also, if your lens is too close to the target and you are not in focus priority, you will take an out of focus shot. Set things to focus priority and you prevent such mistakes from influencing your test results. It is a test so control the environment so results cannot be questioned and conclusions can be drawn unambiguously.

If you are actually testing focus and determining AF-Fine tune...then you would be looking for focus confirmation. If you require "focus priority" to be "on" to accomplish that, then perhaps you shouldn't be trying to AF-Fine tune.  Not saying it can't help, only that it's not required to accomplish AF-Fine tune when done properly. In fact, I find the most accurate method is with AF-C and AF-ON (back button) then with a remote release and MUP. DotTune also works extremely well and there no "focus priority" needed at all and even simpler to set up. Added benifit of no pictures needed so camera shake and mirror slap not an issue.

DotTune

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Mako2011
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In reply to spbStan, Apr 20, 2013

spbStan wrote:

Wonder why he picked "left focus" problem instead of being more creative and come up with a new real or imagined problem.

Because apparently that was the only real problem he had.

I am moderator of the largest Nikon on-line community and have many threads going on the D7100 and what has been most notable has been the almost universal praise for it.

What on-line community would that be? Shouldn't we see some evidence of your claim first...you might be a Nikon troll

That is very rate with any brand. No one has reported a left focus point problem.

Has also been reported at NikonCafe as well. Rare though, just as was the case with other models except for the D800.

Given the almost total silence about problems with the D7100, I would say this lone report by someone who does not understand how to test, and does not have time or ?? to post intact images, I would suggest more evidence than what has(hasn't) been offered thus far.

Why, nice to have but folks have already jumped to conclusions, doubt that would change. There are examples of it out there. Also examples of it with other cameras. When it popped up with the D800...a few folks went back and found it with rare copies of D300's and D700's as well.  Rare indeed and usually only seen in wide primes. I would expect of few D7000 have it as well but wouldn't call it fact untill the lens in question was fine tuned first.

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spbStan
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Re: maybe
In reply to Mako2011, Apr 21, 2013

Nikonians

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Stan
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Mako2011
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In reply to spbStan, Apr 21, 2013

spbStan wrote:

Nikonians

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Stan
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know it well. CNX'd my subscription a while back as traffic rate went way down and seemed to be able to get less and less real help in any timely manner. Still a fine place in many ways but just got to slow to respond. Thanks for your help there. The very active moderation was instrumental in setting it's character and tone. Made it unique.

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Petroglyph
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Re: like some other possible issues
In reply to Mako2011, Apr 21, 2013

It wouldn't necessarily occur to me to check the left focus point.  I use right all the time in portrait mode tipping the camera over left for the model's face and the top and bottom for landscapes.  I do use this point on occasion but I bet it isn't as much as the others.  (Just like I wouldn't take a white wall at f/16 to see if a FX cam has dust spots.)  I'll take a look at the one (D7100) I'm currently trying out and let folks know.  I don't think it has the problem but wasn't looking for it either.

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Petroglyph
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Re: My trial D7100 doesn't have any focus problems
In reply to Petroglyph, Apr 21, 2013

Leftmost focus points are as good as any others in the grid.  I'm using my trusty Nikkor 16-85mm the IQ was fantastic while walking around with the camera the other day.  So for the copy I'm trying the left focus points are all very good.

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