latest and greatest, NO!

Started Apr 18, 2013 | Discussions
Jere Landis
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latest and greatest, NO!
Apr 18, 2013

How many use their heads and their pencils to upgrade their cameras without breaking the bank. Ever notice all the hype on new camera improvements, really exciting! There's better stabilization, more pixels, improved and faster processors coming along every whip stitch. But, this doesn't translate into images that are THAT MUCH BETTER. In other words, is a $1000. upgrade going to produce files that much better, no it isn't. Look at the Olympus EPL1, still popular, and there are many others like it. All we have to do, is use what we have until the prices on some of these great cameras drop to unheard of low prices. An upgrade is an upgrade, if we are a generation OR TWO behind, who cares, I certainly don't. This is a wonderful time to enjoy fine equipment, without going broke to do it.

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danijel973
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Re: latest and greatest, NO!
In reply to Jere Landis, Apr 18, 2013

I was upgrading digital cameras before they started to meet my requirements for image quality and enlargeability. After that, I just keep them until they wear out and then buy a new one.

There's no need to upgrade something that is already good enough. After all, I don't replace my car when a new model comes up, I replace it when it breaks down and repair is not economical.

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Paul De Bra
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Fully agree: no need to upgrade when what you have is good enough.
In reply to danijel973, Apr 18, 2013

My experience with "compact" cameras was not that great. I have had several because every improvement seemed to make them more acceptable but in the end after having owned 6 compact cameras over a period of about 13 years I came to the conclusion that it's just not worth it.

With "serious" cameras upgrading is seldom needed. I started with the Canon 300D as that was the first more or less affordable one. It took until the 450D (3 generations and 4 years later) for me to make a move again (as it was a 6MP -> 12MP move, the smallest move I found worth trying). The one camera that made me change again was the E-M5. No I do not think it is significantly better than my "old" Canon 450D. But it is so much smaller and lighter to use m43 that I made the switch. Finally also no more need for a compact as the E-M5 is small enough to carry with me at all times.

Sure there will be interesting upgrades again. But for me the E-M5 is good enough and will still be good enough a few years from now (unless it breaks). Generally skipping around 3 to 4 years of innovation before upgrading seems like good advice to me.

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rsmithgi
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Re: latest and greatest, NO!
In reply to Jere Landis, Apr 18, 2013

On the other hand, if you can afford it and it makes you happy, good for you, Upgrade away.

I am amazed by the number of people that have multiple $1000 camera bodies and $1000s more in lenses. I try to skip generations when I upgrade but I don't begrudge people who have the latest and greatest. Other than the impact on the bank account and a modest learning curve, I don't see a downside to upgrading. In fact, if anyone wants to sell me a good condition EM-5 when the new model comes out....

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eques
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Re: latest and greatest, NO!
In reply to Jere Landis, Apr 18, 2013

I had a film camera, the Nikon FE, from 1979 to 2005.

Then I got a P&S camera, a Canon A620 with 7,2MP. It still delivers remarkably good pictures in good light.

Then mFT opened the possibility to use my legacy lenses and get a camera not bigger than the Nikon FE. So in 2011 I got the G1, because it went with the 14-45, for € 380.

And this is the camera I use. Well, sometimes I take the G2, I bought as a back up.

Sometimes I wonder, whether light might not be as often blown out with a more recent sensor. And in winter I wish for less noise at ISO 800. But otherwise, I still like the output of the 12MP sensor.

And I can't see much progress in the G3 my wife uses.

Peter.

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RoelHendrickx
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a view with some nuance
In reply to Jere Landis, Apr 18, 2013

Jere Landis wrote:

How many use their heads and their pencils to upgrade their cameras without breaking the bank. Ever notice all the hype on new camera improvements, really exciting! There's better stabilization, more pixels, improved and faster processors coming along every whip stitch. But, this doesn't translate into images that are THAT MUCH BETTER. In other words, is a $1000. upgrade going to produce files that much better, no it isn't. Look at the Olympus EPL1, still popular, and there are many others like it. All we have to do, is use what we have until the prices on some of these great cameras drop to unheard of low prices. An upgrade is an upgrade, if we are a generation OR TWO behind, who cares, I certainly don't. This is a wonderful time to enjoy fine equipment, without going broke to do it.

I buy lenses once in a while but those are not upgrades but rather additions that allow me to do new stuff.

I buy new camera bodies when there is a need.

At one point I really needed a second body of roughly equal MP count.

At a next point I needed a third body to equip a second shooter for a job.

In those cases I do buy "latest" if I believe the improvements are significant enough.

By the time a major new Olympus camera (the hybrid?) will be not just announced but available, I believe my E-3 will be nearing its retirement shutter count.  I do shoot a huge amount of frames per year.

So I will drop that oldest model and get the new one, and continue the slow transition from FT to µFT.

Now it is two FT bodies with great Oly glass, and one µFT with a specialty lens.

At one point it will become two µFT bodies with good glass and one FT body to take a beating.

Luckily I can say that I have reached the point where what used to be just a hobby, is not yet making me extra income but is at least paying for itself.  If it were just a hobby and one that I don't do every day, then I would certainly be more conservative, and would be buying lenses only second-hand, and bodies probably one model behind the development-curve.

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Roel Hendrickx
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Cy Cheze
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A thrify tip: G5 with lens for $399
In reply to Jere Landis, Apr 18, 2013

Right now, Amazon is offering a G5 with kit lens for $399.  A good deal.  Wait a few months and maybe it will be offered for $299, the way the G3 was priced at certain recent intervals.

But, no, people want a GH3, or an OMD with all the trimings.  Or maybe its a FF camera.  Or maybe anything they really can't use or afford, but which simply gives a temporary "fix" to their addictive behavior.

There is a disease called Gear Acquisition Syndrome ("GAS") that threatens the sanity and budgets of lots of people.  A new product appears, admidst lots of chatter and hype, and GAS victims go with the flow.  They are always churning products they barely have time to use, before a new product comes along.  Compusive obsessions notoriously cloud people's sense of judgment or perspective.

A possible rationalization:

People spend outrageous sums for all sorts of stuff they don't need.  Why worry?  Social Security, Medicare, and Food Stamps will spare all troubles!  Or move in with a relative.  Worst case, steal something, turn yourself in, and you can get food and shelter at the state penetentiary.  But I simply must have that new camera!

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Jere Landis
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Re: latest and greatest, NO!
In reply to rsmithgi, Apr 18, 2013

I don't begrudge people the right to upgrade, I'm happy for them. I don't think that was infered to begin with.

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Bob Tullis
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Whatever
In reply to Jere Landis, Apr 18, 2013

Jere Landis wrote:

I don't begrudge people the right to upgrade, I'm happy for them. I don't think that was infered to begin with.

It was simply an unsolicited lecture suggesting no one thinks about an upgrade in terms of value.

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Jere Landis
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Re: Whatever
In reply to Bob Tullis, Apr 18, 2013

No it wasn't, that's just the way you interpreted it. I was simply pointing out how great it was to be able to handle it that way. Sorry you took it the wrong way.

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bluelemmy
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Re: A thrify tip: G5 with lens for $399
In reply to Cy Cheze, Apr 18, 2013

A new product appears, admidst lots of chatter and hype, and GAS victims go with the flow.  They are always churning products they barely have time to use, before a new product comes along.  Compusive obsessions notoriously cloud people's sense of judgment or perspective.

Yes, all those suckers who have bought GH3s and E-M5s! Idiots, all of us.

It must make savants like you despair, watching us ordinary folk waste our money on equipment we can neither appreciate or afford. Other people eh? What can you do about them? If only they would listen but you know what? They won't!

Take me, deluding myself that I enjoy using my GH3 in a way that I haven't enjoyed using a camera since my Hasselblads. Tonight I am going out to shoot night some pictures of my little hilltop village in the south of France.

I bet, when I come back, I will feel penitent. Guilty. A victim of chatter and hype. I blame society. We are all guilty. Except you, of course  

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Guy Parsons
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Re: latest and greatest, sometimes....
In reply to Jere Landis, Apr 18, 2013

Jere Landis wrote:

How many use their heads and their pencils to upgrade their cameras without breaking the bank. Ever notice all the hype on new camera improvements, really exciting! There's better stabilization, more pixels, improved and faster processors coming along every whip stitch. But, this doesn't translate into images that are THAT MUCH BETTER. In other words, is a $1000. upgrade going to produce files that much better, no it isn't. Look at the Olympus EPL1, still popular, and there are many others like it. All we have to do, is use what we have until the prices on some of these great cameras drop to unheard of low prices. An upgrade is an upgrade, if we are a generation OR TWO behind, who cares, I certainly don't. This is a wonderful time to enjoy fine equipment, without going broke to do it.

The cost of my photography hobby pales into insignificance compared to my MHMGR problem, translation = Must Have More Garden Railway. That is the sure way to burn $$$, but they hold value fairly well so when I fall off the twig the descendants will have some trains to play with or to sell and waste on useless items like clothes and food.

Anyway, back to cameras. Upgrade from E-PL1 to E-PL5 was rather magic, not for the improved image quality but for the nicer operation. It was the first time I've actually bought a camera fairly near to release, usually wait until new models announced and buy old models on price decline.

Always though there will be lens acquisition happening as my habit from film days is to pack the bag differently for each time out the door, equipment selected to suit the occasion. Need a mess of lenses to make life easy, never carry them all of course, maybe two or three at a time.

Must sift and sort my now little used photo gear (4/3 lenses particularly) and see if I can get some dollars - to go towards another E-PL5 body when they start dropping in price. A bad experience with one of my E-PL1 bodies (unfixable intermittent button problems) taught me to always travel with two bodies.

Just like cars, when a new camera is released we suddenly learn about the faults of the previous model, so the best time to buy is then to get the outgoing model, if it has the features  and quality that suits your shooting method and tastes. Usually about 3 models apart there are enough significant changes to consider an upgrade. I'll settle down now with the E-PL5 and wait for news of working global shutters as my possible next upgrade.

My now unused E-PL1 and E-P3 will go on the Aussie GumTree sales site so someone can pick up a real bargain with two very nice clean cameras. This will break my usual habit of keeping everything forever.

As for the cost of my camera habit, it is easily paid for over the years by my retirement hobby project of occasionally making print display stands for Aussie camera clubs. The model train habit is coming directly out of the kids' inheritance.

Regards...... Guy

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jalywol
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Re: latest and greatest, sometimes....
In reply to Guy Parsons, Apr 18, 2013

Guy Parsons wrote:

The cost of my photography hobby pales into insignificance compared to my MHMGR problem, translation = Must Have More Garden Railway. That is the sure way to burn $$$, but they hold value fairly well so when I fall off the twig the descendants will have some trains to play with or to sell and waste on useless items like clothes and food.

THIS made me laugh!

Thank you!

-J

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exdeejjjaaaa
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Re: latest and greatest, NO!
In reply to Jere Landis, Apr 18, 2013

you live only once... so sometimes you pay just for a certain state of mind for a certain period of time, that's it.

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Cane
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Re: latest and greatest, NO!
In reply to Jere Landis, Apr 18, 2013

Jere Landis wrote:

How many use their heads and their pencils to upgrade their cameras without breaking the bank. Ever notice all the hype on new camera improvements, really exciting! There's better stabilization, more pixels, improved and faster processors coming along every whip stitch. But, this doesn't translate into images that are THAT MUCH BETTER. In other words, is a $1000. upgrade going to produce files that much better, no it isn't. Look at the Olympus EPL1, still popular, and there are many others like it. All we have to do, is use what we have until the prices on some of these great cameras drop to unheard of low prices. An upgrade is an upgrade, if we are a generation OR TWO behind, who cares, I certainly don't. This is a wonderful time to enjoy fine equipment, without going broke to do it.

Well if you don't care, I guess nobody should.

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GeorgianBay1939
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Re: latest and greatest, sometimes....
In reply to jalywol, Apr 18, 2013

I am laughing too!

What a strange thread! 

Commentary about "others" who don't spend their hard-earned cash the way "I" would??? ....  Along with some self - exposed mea culpas!... which are more fun.

I am always on the horns of the Shakespearian dilemma:  to spend or not to spend.

On one hand:  Money is certainly valueless unless spent.

On the other hand:  Save some cash for something of value that you REALLY need/want.

Balancing on this razor has led to some bizarre behaviour in my life.

I have a barn full of (8) AMC Eagles (six are operating, four are tagged/road insured) .... why?  Because they are the best cars that I know how to fix.  And they are very reliable on long difficult road trips across the continent.

1984 AMC Eagle on Kootenay Pass BC, Canada.  Lumix LZ 2

Just like a high-end reliable camera that will work in challenging circumstances.  (I also have a F-150 to run around in.)  I am not interested in modern (unfixable) vehicles.

Over the last 10 years I've gone through at least 6 cameras.  A fuji lasted a few months until I left it on the dashboard of the hot interior of an Eagle  --- which broke its LCD.  I then went through about 4  wonderful Lumix compact cameras.  As I got more and more particular I upgraded to be able to keep pushing the limits of each camera.  Then I got a GF1, and soon upgraded to a GH2 because in my frail old age I needed a better grip and EVF.

Although I keep track of what is happening in the mirrorless system cameras, I don't lust after a NEX, or D-M5 or GH3 or any other MILC .   But when my current mistress starts to fail me I will certainly be looking across the fence. (D-M7  or GH 5?)

In the meantime I will divert as much cash as possible from my (4) kids inheritances towards my various competing passions.

I see that it is 6:01:xx PM here.  Raining hard.  Maybe time to open a fine old vine California Zinfandel to breathe before prepping some dinner.

Decisions, decisions, decisions.

t

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novaoz
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Re: latest and greatest, sometimes....
In reply to GeorgianBay1939, Apr 18, 2013

GeorgianBay1939 wrote:

I am laughing too!

What a strange thread! 

Commentary about "others" who don't spend their hard-earned cash the way "I" would??? ....  Along with some self - exposed mea culpas!... which are more fun.

I am always on the horns of the Shakespearian dilemma:  to spend or not to spend.

On one hand:  Money is certainly valueless unless spent.

On the other hand:  Save some cash for something of value that you REALLY need/want.

Balancing on this razor has led to some bizarre behaviour in my life.

I have a barn full of (8) AMC Eagles (six are operating, four are tagged/road insured) .... why?  Because they are the best cars that I know how to fix.  And they are very reliable on long difficult road trips across the continent.

1984 AMC Eagle on Kootenay Pass BC, Canada.  Lumix LZ 2

Just like a high-end reliable camera that will work in challenging circumstances.  (I also have a F-150 to run around in.)  I am not interested in modern (unfixable) vehicles.

Over the last 10 years I've gone through at least 6 cameras.  A fuji lasted a few months until I left it on the dashboard of the hot interior of an Eagle  --- which broke its LCD.  I then went through about 4  wonderful Lumix compact cameras.  As I got more and more particular I upgraded to be able to keep pushing the limits of each camera.  Then I got a GF1, and soon upgraded to a GH2 because in my frail old age I needed a better grip and EVF.

Although I keep track of what is happening in the mirrorless system cameras, I don't lust after a NEX, or D-M5 or GH3 or any other MILC .   But when my current mistress starts to fail me I will certainly be looking across the fence. (D-M7  or GH 5?)

In the meantime I will divert as much cash as possible from my (4) kids inheritances towards my various competing passions.

I see that it is 6:01:xx PM here.  Raining hard.  Maybe time to open a fine old vine California Zinfandel to breathe before prepping some dinner.

Decisions, decisions, decisions.

t

Good yarn!

I 'm still using an E3 but have been on this forum learning what I should upgrade to... my first mirrorless! I have just bought a G5 and twin lenses for my daughter who is just getting into photography so will have a good look at that before I buy something for myself, my upgrading seems to be pretty slow deciding which one and than pretty slow changing again... so if I decide OMD or GH3 it won't probably happen again for another 5 years, right now I want to hear what the EP5 and G6 promises before pulling the trigger.

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Peter from Norfolk Is.

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Wallybipster
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latest and greatest, YES!
In reply to Jere Landis, Apr 18, 2013

I did not previously own any M4/3 camera.  But the OM-D was the camera that made me finally buy in.  Sure I could've saved more money by getting an older body.  But the OM-D suited my style and uses like no other option available.  So I paid the premium, and I plan to still be using this camera even when the next generation of OM-D comes out.  And I would not have it any other way.

I agree that upgrade syndrome can be silly, and I'd still be taking decent pictures with other bodies, but these latest and greatest features and improvements have all taken my photography to a different level, coming from an older 4/3 E-620.  I also think that I will not need a serious replacement for my OM-D until it goes the way of all the earth.

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Alumna Gorp
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Re: latest and greatest, NO!
In reply to Jere Landis, Apr 18, 2013

I upgraded from a Panasonic G2 to the OMD, why, because it was a huge leap.

Generally though, I often upgrade a generation behind, with all those always wanting the latest, there are plenty of good second hand deals around.

Often second hand kit is practically new with only slight use

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GeorgianBay1939
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Re: latest and greatest, sometimes....
In reply to novaoz, Apr 19, 2013

novaoz wrote:

GeorgianBay1939 wrote:

I am laughing too!

What a strange thread! 

Commentary about "others" who don't spend their hard-earned cash the way "I" would??? ....  Along with some self - exposed mea culpas!... which are more fun.

I am always on the horns of the Shakespearian dilemma:  to spend or not to spend.

On one hand:  Money is certainly valueless unless spent.

On the other hand:  Save some cash for something of value that you REALLY need/want.

Balancing on this razor has led to some bizarre behaviour in my life.

SNIP

Decisions, decisions, decisions.

t

Good yarn!

I 'm still using an E3 but have been on this forum learning what I should upgrade to... my first mirrorless! I have just bought a G5 and twin lenses for my daughter who is just getting into photography so will have a good look at that before I buy something for myself, my upgrading seems to be pretty slow deciding which one and than pretty slow changing again... so if I decide OMD or GH3 it won't probably happen again for another 5 years, right now I want to hear what the EP5 and G6 promises before pulling the trigger.

-- hide signature --

Peter from Norfolk Is.

When I went from compact to interchangeable lens I looked very hard at DSLR cameras including OLY 4/3 system cameras.  What convinced me to invest (heavily) in MFT was the POTENTIAL for good EVFs,  good Lenses, fast AFs, light gear, and good image quality and control.

I looked at 4/3 and was impressed with the telecentric lens advantage.  But the other factors steered my to a GF1 then GH2.

I am glad that I made that decision.  Most of my high end photog friends now carry MFT in addition to their FF cameras.  One friend now takes his E-M5 along with a few lenses on his latest trips .... kayaking in the Canadian Arctic; Galapagos and Equador/Peru; S and S/W Africa.   He leaves his wonderful D700 and superb glass at home now. 

I suspect that it will take a bit of adaptation to use the MFT EVFs as well as you now use the E-3 OVF.  Nice to have a practice set close at hand!

Yeah, it is a good challenge to learn to work a good piece of apparatus to its limits.  Something like flying a fighter jet.

tom, from Ontario, Canada

PS   We have Norfolk Island Pines in just about every public building up here in Canada.  I think that they are propagated in South Florida.  Walmart sells them by the dozens in little pots.   Some are painted green and don't do too well.

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