Panasonic GH3 review published

Started Apr 15, 2013 | Discussions
Anders W
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Re: Panasonic GH3 review
In reply to exdeejjjaaaa, Apr 16, 2013

exdeejjjaaaa wrote:

Alexis D wrote:

and the best IBIS around (stabilsing any lens that is mounted on it)

and shutter shock because of that

You got that wrong. Shutters cause shutter shock. Stabilization systems don't.

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exdeejjjaaaa
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Re: Panasonic GH3 review published
In reply to sea_dragon, Apr 16, 2013

sea_dragon wrote:

exdeejjjaaaa wrote

it does not confirm you allegations... it just says that visually impaired people like you (those who need to wear glasses ) do not see all the image sharp - "you'll rarely see the whole screen as sharp if you wear glasses"... you were alleging that everybody doesn't... just compare what is written in review w/ your previous musings.

Read this then...

"However, we found the viewfinder optics to be disappointing - it's difficult to ever see the whole panel and the corners are fuzzy unless you look straight at them (a problem that gets even worse if you wear glasses). "

indeed you need to see straight and not @ 45 degrees like our friends like to do.

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exdeejjjaaaa
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Re: Panasonic GH3 review
In reply to Anders W, Apr 16, 2013

Anders W wrote:

exdeejjjaaaa wrote:

Alexis D wrote:

and the best IBIS around (stabilsing any lens that is mounted on it)

and shutter shock because of that

You got that wrong. Shutters cause shutter shock. Stabilization systems don't.

no, my friend... IBIS can't handle shutter shock caused by shutter... that's why GH3 does not have it... sensor is one mass w/ body.

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Anders W
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Re: Panasonic GH3 review published
In reply to exdeejjjaaaa, Apr 16, 2013

exdeejjjaaaa wrote:

tgutgu wrote:

Thanks for the good review. You have confirmed my concerns about the view finder, which is indeed disappointing for a flagship camera.

it does not confirm you allegations... it just says that visually impaired people like you (those who need to wear glasses ) do not see all the image sharp - "you'll rarely see the whole screen as sharp if you wear glasses"... you were alleging that everybody doesn't... just compare what is written in review w/ your previous musings.

So here is what is actually written in the review for comparison with what you say is written (and not):

However, we found the viewfinder optics to be disappointing - it's difficult to ever see the whole panel and the corners are fuzzy unless you look straight at them (a problem that gets even worse if you wear glasses). We also found a distinct color cast to the EVF panel, meaning it gave a different (and apparently less accurate) color rendition to the rear screen. No amount of tweaking the fine tune settings in the menu could get the EVF to render greens the way they appear in the final output.

Source:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonic-lumix-dmc-gh3/4

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exdeejjjaaaa
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Re: Panasonic GH3 review
In reply to Richard Butler, Apr 16, 2013

R Butler wrote:
but the GH3 has the tendency towards underexposure that we've seen before in Panasonics. Not to a terrible degree, but enough for it to be marked down a touch.

you will see the raw data it is actually Olympus undexposing trying to preserve highlights for JPG shooters, not Panasonic

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exdeejjjaaaa
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Re: Panasonic GH3 review published
In reply to Anders W, Apr 16, 2013

Anders W wrote:

exdeejjjaaaa wrote:

tgutgu wrote:

Thanks for the good review. You have confirmed my concerns about the view finder, which is indeed disappointing for a flagship camera.

it does not confirm you allegations... it just says that visually impaired people like you (those who need to wear glasses ) do not see all the image sharp - "you'll rarely see the whole screen as sharp if you wear glasses"... you were alleging that everybody doesn't... just compare what is written in review w/ your previous musings.

So here is what is actually written in the review for comparison with what you say is written (and not):

However, we found the viewfinder optics to be disappointing - it's difficult to ever see the whole panel

indeed, because Butler wears glasses... the issue is his eyesight, for people w/ 20/20 there is no problem.

PS: here is a shot of what people w/ normal eyesight see in GH3 viewfinder - a raw file = https://www.box.com/s/6o1cnxna3qbxf24swhym ... you are welcome to produce one that that shows the effect described and we can then check what was the angle and distanc from eye to viewfinder.

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Richard Butler
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Re: Panasonic GH3 review
In reply to exdeejjjaaaa, Apr 16, 2013

exdeejjjaaaa wrote:

R Butler wrote:
but the GH3 has the tendency towards underexposure that we've seen before in Panasonics. Not to a terrible degree, but enough for it to be marked down a touch.

you will see the raw data it is actually Olympus undexposing trying to preserve highlights for JPG shooters, not Panasonic

I disagree:

Olympus uses a lower Raw value to give middle grey in its JPEGs. (Which is what you're hacking your way 'round if you remove the correction in DNG).

Panasonic simply underexposes from time-to-time.

From a Raw perspective there would be little difference between the two files, but only one of those two situations ends with JPEGs that are too dark (underexposed). And that's not what you want if you shoot JPEG.

Richard - dpreview.com

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Richard Butler
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Re: Panasonic GH3 review published
In reply to exdeejjjaaaa, Apr 16, 2013

exdeejjjaaaa wrote:

Anders W wrote:

exdeejjjaaaa wrote:

tgutgu wrote:

Thanks for the good review. You have confirmed my concerns about the view finder, which is indeed disappointing for a flagship camera.

it does not confirm you allegations... it just says that visually impaired people like you (those who need to wear glasses ) do not see all the image sharp - "you'll rarely see the whole screen as sharp if you wear glasses"... you were alleging that everybody doesn't... just compare what is written in review w/ your previous musings.

So here is what is actually written in the review for comparison with what you say is written (and not):

However, we found the viewfinder optics to be disappointing - it's difficult to ever see the whole panel

indeed, because Butler wears glasses... the issue is his eyesight, for people w/ 20/20 there is no problem.

I can't believe I didn't ask people in the office who don't wear glasses to check whether they still had problems.

Oh, hang on, I did. Maybe that's what gave me confidence to state that it is a problem (and a bigger one for glasses wearers).

Richard - dpreview.com

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sea_dragon
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Re: Panasonic GH3 review published
In reply to exdeejjjaaaa, Apr 16, 2013

exdeejjjaaaa wrote:

indeed, because Butler wears glasses... the issue is his eyesight, for people w/ 20/20 there is no problem.

PS: here is a shot of what people w/ normal eyesight see in GH3 viewfinder - a raw file = https://www.box.com/s/6o1cnxna3qbxf24swhym ... you are welcome to produce one that that shows the effect described and we can then check what was the angle and distanc from eye to viewfinder.

Here we go with the raw file theory again which makes no sense.

You're in complete denial... the review clearly states that the problem was noticeable and then made worse by wearing glasses.

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Detail Man
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Re: Panasonic GH3 review
In reply to Richard Butler, Apr 16, 2013

R Butler wrote:

exdeejjjaaaa wrote:

R Butler wrote:
but the GH3 has the tendency towards underexposure that we've seen before in Panasonics. Not to a terrible degree, but enough for it to be marked down a touch.

you will see the raw data it is actually Olympus undexposing trying to preserve highlights for JPG shooters, not Panasonic

I disagree:

Olympus uses a lower Raw value to give middle grey in its JPEGs. (Which is what you're hacking your way 'round if you remove the correction in DNG).

Panasonic simply underexposes from time-to-time.

From a Raw perspective there would be little difference between the two files, but only one of those two situations ends with JPEGs that are too dark (underexposed). And that's not what you want if you shoot JPEG.

It seems to me, deej, that the statement surrounding JPGs has nothing to do with RAW ADU levels. If you take a look at the JPG tone-curve transfer-functions in the "Cameras Compared - Dynamic Range Compared") section of:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonic-lumix-dmc-gh3/15

... with GH3 set to "i-Dynamic Off" and EM5 set to "Gradation Normal", while the curves up to sRGB=118 are pretty close to being the same, both the more pronounced S-curve "soft-clipping" of the EM5 tone-curve transfer-function as well as the (around) 0.4 EV higher maximum recordable input level ...

... even in a case where the metering constant, when applicable, (may) be the same ...

... would both be expected to yield recorded JPGs having a higher perceived overall "brightness" than the GH3 - due to higher sRGB tone-levels assigned for the same input levels in the EM5 JPG tone-curve transfer-functions relative to the GH3 JPG tone-curve transfer-functions.

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KwhyChang
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Thanks for all the work!
In reply to Richard Butler, Apr 16, 2013

I really do appreciate the direct post here in the forum. I don't hit the main new page as much as I used to.

Also wanted to take the opportunity to thank you and all the folks at dpreview for the detailed and in depth reviews.

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Dave

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RoelHendrickx
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Re: Very nice job
In reply to TrapperJohn, Apr 16, 2013

TrapperJohn wrote:

I won't be ditching the OMD for one, I'm mainly a still photo type and that IBIS really spoils you, but I thought it was a smart move to call in a video expert to work it over from a video perspective, as that's where it really shines.

I've been lazy and have just jumped to the conclusions on this one.

And I feel the same as John : it's not going to replace my E-M5 (loving that one more every week).

But it looks like a cracker camera for people with more interest in video (for me, the ratio is roughly 99,9% stills versus 0,1% video - most often I just simply forget I could also shoot video - sometimes I realize afterwards that it would have been a cool idea to do it...)

What terrific choices we have...

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exdeejjjaaaa
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Re: Panasonic GH3 review published
In reply to sea_dragon, Apr 16, 2013

sea_dragon wrote:

exdeejjjaaaa wrote:

indeed, because Butler wears glasses... the issue is his eyesight, for people w/ 20/20 there is no problem.

PS: here is a shot of what people w/ normal eyesight see in GH3 viewfinder - a raw file = https://www.box.com/s/6o1cnxna3qbxf24swhym ... you are welcome to produce one that that shows the effect described and we can then check what was the angle and distanc from eye to viewfinder.

Here we go with the raw file theory again which makes no sense.

actually it does because the focal of the lens used is close to the normal eyesight and note - I actually produce something besides hearsay and JPG files that clearly showed that shot was taken at a significant distance from EVF

You're in complete denial... the review clearly states that the problem was noticeable and then made worse by wearing glasses.

again - reviewer has issues w/ his eyesight, so no wonder that he has issues w/ viewfinder w/o his glasses... if you want to state that GH3 viewfinder was not created for people w/ such issues then I have nothing to say really, but for people w/ normal eyesight there are no issues at all (see the raw file which shows what 20/20 eyesight sees).

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exdeejjjaaaa
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Re: Panasonic GH3 review
In reply to Richard Butler, Apr 16, 2013

R Butler wrote:

exdeejjjaaaa wrote:

R Butler wrote:
but the GH3 has the tendency towards underexposure that we've seen before in Panasonics. Not to a terrible degree, but enough for it to be marked down a touch.

you will see the raw data it is actually Olympus undexposing trying to preserve highlights for JPG shooters, not Panasonic

I disagree:

Olympus uses a lower Raw value to give middle grey in its JPEGs.

it does and it is not against the ISO standards that manufacturers are using ... however for a raw shooter that does not matter and expo correction that Adobe is using clearly shows which manufacturer is exposing more for shadows and which more for highlights.

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exdeejjjaaaa
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Re: Panasonic GH3 review
In reply to Detail Man, Apr 16, 2013

Detail Man wrote:

R Butler wrote:

exdeejjjaaaa wrote:

R Butler wrote:
but the GH3 has the tendency towards underexposure that we've seen before in Panasonics. Not to a terrible degree, but enough for it to be marked down a touch.

you will see the raw data it is actually Olympus undexposing trying to preserve highlights for JPG shooters, not Panasonic

I disagree:

Olympus uses a lower Raw value to give middle grey in its JPEGs. (Which is what you're hacking your way 'round if you remove the correction in DNG).

Panasonic simply underexposes from time-to-time.

From a Raw perspective there would be little difference between the two files, but only one of those two situations ends with JPEGs that are too dark (underexposed). And that's not what you want if you shoot JPEG.

It seems to me, deej, that the statement surrounding JPGs has nothing to do with RAW ADU levels.

true, but as not everybody shoots JPGs, at least the review has to make that clear.

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Detail Man
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Re: Panasonic GH3 review
In reply to exdeejjjaaaa, Apr 16, 2013

exdeejjjaaaa wrote:

Detail Man wrote:

R Butler wrote:

exdeejjjaaaa wrote:

R Butler wrote:
but the GH3 has the tendency towards underexposure that we've seen before in Panasonics. Not to a terrible degree, but enough for it to be marked down a touch.

you will see the raw data it is actually Olympus undexposing trying to preserve highlights for JPG shooters, not Panasonic

I disagree:

Olympus uses a lower Raw value to give middle grey in its JPEGs. (Which is what you're hacking your way 'round if you remove the correction in DNG).

Panasonic simply underexposes from time-to-time.

From a Raw perspective there would be little difference between the two files, but only one of those two situations ends with JPEGs that are too dark (underexposed). And that's not what you want if you shoot JPEG.

It seems to me, deej, that the statement surrounding JPGs has nothing to do with RAW ADU levels.

true, but as not everybody shoots JPGs, at least the review has to make that clear.

I suppose. Even though we are RAW-shooters, it seems (to me) a fair assumption that in cases when DPReview is referring to RAW (and not JPG) recording, then they likely would specifically state that.

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Bob Meyer
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Re: Very nice job
In reply to RoelHendrickx, Apr 16, 2013

If the ergos and menus of the OM-D didn't suck so bad, it would be the ultimate mirrorless camera. Unfortunately, for me at least, the design of the camera interferes with my enjoyment of photography. Using it becomes a struggle, rather than a joy.

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amtberg
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Re: Panasonic GH3 review
In reply to exdeejjjaaaa, Apr 16, 2013

exdeejjjaaaa wrote:

Anders W wrote:

exdeejjjaaaa wrote:

Alexis D wrote:

and the best IBIS around (stabilsing any lens that is mounted on it)

and shutter shock because of that

You got that wrong. Shutters cause shutter shock. Stabilization systems don't.

no, my friend... IBIS can't handle shutter shock caused by shutter... that's why GH3 does not have it... sensor is one mass w/ body.

Cameras without IBIS, including the GH3, suffer from shutter shock, too.  I wish Panny would incorporate Oly's anti-shock controls.  Electronic shutter is the ultimate solution, but it isn't always useable.

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PC Wheeler
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Re: Panasonic GH3 review published
In reply to sea_dragon, Apr 16, 2013

sea_dragon wrote:

"However, we found the viewfinder optics to be disappointing - it's difficult to ever see the whole panel and the corners are fuzzy unless you look straight at them (a problem that gets even worse if you wear glasses). "

Oddly enough, I wear glasses and find the GH3's EVF to be the best I've used -- including a couple of Sony Alphas and a GH2. It gives me no trouble at all.

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MichaelKJ
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Re: Andrew Reid's review is also up
In reply to Richard Butler, Apr 16, 2013

R Butler wrote:

I know it's taken a while (even after we got a camera to work on), but our GH3 review is finally ready.

We worked with Andrew Reid at EOSHD to make sure we really did justice to the camera's video capabilities, so we hope you find something useful or interesting in there:

Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH3 review

Richard - dpreview.com

Richard,

Great that you worked with Andrew and I hope you won't mind if I point out that he has posted his review of the GH3 on his site (he provided a link to your review).

http://www.eoshd.com/content/9920/gh3-review

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