Before I take the plunge and purchase a Nikon D800e. Any thoughts on the rumored

Started Apr 15, 2013 | Discussions
Matt Cant Photography
New MemberPosts: 4
Like?
Before I take the plunge and purchase a Nikon D800e. Any thoughts on the rumored
Apr 15, 2013
No text.
Nikon D800E
If you believe there are incorrect tags, please send us this post using our feedback form.
Matt Cant Photography
New MemberPosts: 4
Like?
Re: Before I take the plunge and purchase a Nikon D800e. Any thoughts on the rumored
In reply to Matt Cant Photography, Apr 15, 2013

rumours and a likey successor to the D3x.:-D

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
dustyj
Regular MemberPosts: 234Gear list
Like?
Re: Before I take the plunge and purchase a Nikon D800e. Any thoughts on the rumored
In reply to Matt Cant Photography, Apr 15, 2013

I'd say there won't be one in 2013 and when outdoes show up it'll be big money. If you need the pixels just get a D800 now

 dustyj's gear list:dustyj's gear list
Fujifilm X100S Nikon D3S Nikon AF-S Nikkor 14-24mm f/2.8G ED Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED Nikon AF-S Nikkor 50mm f/1.8G +1 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Matt Cant Photography
New MemberPosts: 4
Like?
Re: Before I take the plunge and purchase a Nikon D800e. Any thoughts on the rumored
In reply to dustyj, Apr 15, 2013

anyone see much difference in the 800 compared with the 800e

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
dustyj
Regular MemberPosts: 234Gear list
Like?
Re: Before I take the plunge and purchase a Nikon D800e. Any thoughts on the rumored
In reply to Matt Cant Photography, Apr 15, 2013

There is a difference but its pretty minimal to most. The best peepers can point it out on thier 35" displays at 200%.

In all seriousness, the difference is minimal but can be seen at large sizes

 dustyj's gear list:dustyj's gear list
Fujifilm X100S Nikon D3S Nikon AF-S Nikkor 14-24mm f/2.8G ED Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED Nikon AF-S Nikkor 50mm f/1.8G +1 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
AZBlue
Contributing MemberPosts: 865Gear list
Like?
Re: Before I take the plunge and purchase a Nikon D800e. Any thoughts on the rumored
In reply to Matt Cant Photography, Apr 15, 2013

If we do see a successor to the D3X in the form of a D4X, it will likely be at most 24 MP or 36 MP. Nikon has a track record of releasing its high MP sensors in lower cost bodies in the beginning, possibly to work out the bugs at the expense of early adopters before refining the same technology for use in their pro line.

-- hide signature --

"I've been in more laps than a napkin" - Mae West

 AZBlue's gear list:AZBlue's gear list
Nikon D800 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 16-35mm f/4G ED VR Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED Nikon AF Nikkor 20mm f/2.8D Sigma 150mm F2.8 EX DG OS Macro HSM +1 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
pluton
Senior MemberPosts: 2,144
Like?
Re: Before I take the plunge and purchase a Nikon D800e. Any thoughts on the rumored
In reply to Matt Cant Photography, Apr 15, 2013

First I got an E, then a "regular" 800. Never done an actual A/B test, but have shot the same repeating subjects with the same repeating lenses many times over several months.  The reason I haven't done an A/B test is that so little difference exists between the two;  whereas on the 27" monitor in Lightroom, I can instantly see the difference between one of the D800s and my old D3.

My conclusions so far:

For the casual/fun/hobby/content-oriented pro user(PJ, etc), there is no difference, or, more correctly, no improvement with the E.

For those that know they're going to make extreme crops/giant prints/pretend large format, there might be an advantage to the E.

If I was going buy a third body, I'd get the 800.

I hope the supposed D4X actually turns out to be 36MP and not 54MP, since that would make it cheaper than the rumored 50+ MP D4X.  I'd sure like to ditch the 800s and their funky viewfinder optics.

-- hide signature --

-KB-

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Robin Casady
Forum ProPosts: 11,662
Like?
Re: Before I take the plunge and purchase a Nikon D800e. Any thoughts on the rumored
In reply to AZBlue, Apr 15, 2013

AZBlue wrote:

If we do see a successor to the D3X in the form of a D4X, it will likely be at most 24 MP or 36 MP. Nikon has a track record of releasing its high MP sensors in lower cost bodies in the beginning, possibly to work out the bugs at the expense of early adopters before refining the same technology for use in their pro line.

The D2x was the first 12 MP Nikon making it the highest res Nikon when released.

The D3x was the first 24 MP Nikon making it the highest MP Nikon when it was released.

The D800 broke that pattern. Whether it is a new trend, or a fluke is hard to say.

What we have seen is that the pixel pitch on DX sensors sometimes predicts the pixel pitch on high MP FX sensors.

I think the odds are good that the D4x will be 54 MP.

-- hide signature --

Robin Casady
http://www.robincasady.com/Photo/index.html
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts."
— Bertrand Russell

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
John4
Contributing MemberPosts: 791
Like?
Re: Before I take the plunge and purchase a Nikon D800e. Any thoughts on the rumored
In reply to Robin Casady, Apr 15, 2013

Robin Casady wrote:

What we have seen is that the pixel pitch on DX sensors sometimes predicts the pixel pitch on high MP FX sensors.

I think the odds are good that the D4x will be 54 MP.

It seems 36 Mp FX will resolve about 100 lp/mm.  Many good lenses are better than this only in the center at certain apertures, and many are worse than this off axis at any aperture.

I'm inclined to think it is pointless to go much beyond 36 Mpx without increasing the format size.  If we have focusing and alignment issues now, what does 54 hold for us?  What about increased demands for steadiness of the camera...  What about the cost, weight, and complexity (i.e. mfr. QA) of lenses manufactured to this higher need?  How big would people be printing to see this improvement - and is there a market for such prints?

If you have views on this, I'd like to hear them.

Regards, John

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Robin Casady
Forum ProPosts: 11,662
Like?
Re: Before I take the plunge and purchase a Nikon D800e. Any thoughts on the rumored
In reply to John4, Apr 15, 2013

John4 wrote:

Robin Casady wrote:

What we have seen is that the pixel pitch on DX sensors sometimes predicts the pixel pitch on high MP FX sensors.

I think the odds are good that the D4x will be 54 MP.

It seems 36 Mp FX will resolve about 100 lp/mm.  Many good lenses are better than this only in the center at certain apertures, and many are worse than this off axis at any aperture.

I believe there have been rumors of Nikon coming out with a new line of high-end high res lenses. Sigma seems to be moving towards better optics with the 35mm f/1.4. I suspect that higher res. cameras will be followed by higher res lenses. Another reason why lenses aren't really a lifetime investment.

I'm inclined to think it is pointless to go much beyond 36 Mpx without increasing the format size.  If we have focusing and alignment issues now, what does 54 hold for us?  What about increased demands for steadiness of the camera...

That threshold has already been crossed with the D7100. If its pixel pitch is used on an FX sensor you get about 54 MP.

What about the cost, weight, and complexity (i.e. mfr. QA) of lenses manufactured to this higher need?

Welcome to the world of $3,000, $4,000, and $5,000 lenses. The weight may not need to increase, just the precision of the optics. Perhaps we will see more f/4 lenses as they are easier to make.

How big would people be printing to see this improvement - and is there a market for such prints?

I believe the difference would show up in A1 or 24x36" prints. I also believe there is a market for prints that size and larger among landscape shooters.

-- hide signature --

Robin Casady
http://www.robincasady.com/Photo/index.html
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts."
— Bertrand Russell

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Shotcents
Senior MemberPosts: 3,905Gear list
Like?
Re: Before I take the plunge and purchase a Nikon D800e. Any thoughts on the rumored
In reply to Matt Cant Photography, Apr 15, 2013

Matt Cant Photography wrote:

anyone see much difference in the 800 compared with the 800e

You've got to do a good amount of work to extract every ounce of resolution out of a D800. If you plan to shoot landscapes carefully and print very large, you might see a small advantage with the E, but you'd never KNOW it unless you had a regular D800 shooting next to it and even then you'd pixel peep your eyes out to see it.

Owners of the E will make all kinds of claims, but the dust has settled and most now know that the differences are very small. But what is NOT small are the issues I see from the E when shooting video. Some will say it's not a big deal, but if you plan to do any serious video/filmaking with a D800, skip the E version. It creates significantly worse moire and edge artifacts. I've seen it first-hand.

I'm NOT shooting much video, so either camera would work for me. But I see no reason to donate extra funds to Nikon for the E, which is not a "better" product by any means.

Robert

 Shotcents's gear list:Shotcents's gear list
Nikon Coolpix P7700 Nikon D800 Nikon D5200 Nikon Df Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II +10 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Canadianguy
Contributing MemberPosts: 856
Like?
Re: Before I take the plunge and purchase a Nikon D800e. Any thoughts on the rumored
In reply to Matt Cant Photography, Apr 15, 2013

Rumour has it, it wil lbe priced at $8000 USD

Do you really want to hold off on a real $3000 camera for a $8000 rumoured one?

Matt Cant Photography wrote:

rumours and a likey successor to the D3x.:-D

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
iwannabesedated
Contributing MemberPosts: 982Gear list
Like?
Re: Before I take the plunge and purchase a Nikon D800e. Any thoughts on the rumored
In reply to Matt Cant Photography, Apr 15, 2013

Matt Cant Photography wrote:

anyone see much difference in the 800 compared with the 800e

I have both, and now shoot the D800E almost exclusively. I see a difference - D800E pics are discernably sharper and require less work in post. I believe the higher price is well justified. Regards and best wishes. -iwbs

 iwannabesedated's gear list:iwannabesedated's gear list
Nikon D800 Nikon D800E Nikon D810 Sony RX100 II Nikon D200 +2 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Robin Casady
Forum ProPosts: 11,662
Like?
Re: Before I take the plunge and purchase a Nikon D800e. Any thoughts on the rumored
In reply to Shotcents, Apr 15, 2013

Shotcents wrote:

Owners of the E will make all kinds of claims, but the dust has settled and most now know that the differences are very small.

I make the claim that there is a very large psychological difference between the D800 and the D800E.

But what is NOT small are the issues I see from the E when shooting video. Some will say it's not a big deal, but if you plan to do any serious video/filmaking with a D800, skip the E version. It creates significantly worse moire and edge artifacts. I've seen it first-hand.

I would like to see this difference. It seems to me that the AA filter in the D800 is not strong enough to have any affect on the down sampled video. I believe aliasing and moiré in video will be identical between the D800 and D800E.

Can you show me side-by-side examples?

-- hide signature --

Robin Casady
http://www.robincasady.com/Photo/index.html
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts."
— Bertrand Russell

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Shotcents
Senior MemberPosts: 3,905Gear list
Like?
Re: Before I take the plunge and purchase a Nikon D800e. Any thoughts on the rumored
In reply to Robin Casady, Apr 15, 2013

Robin Casady wrote:

Shotcents wrote:

Owners of the E will make all kinds of claims, but the dust has settled and most now know that the differences are very small.

I make the claim that there is a very large psychological difference between the D800 and the D800E.

Robin, I agree! The top claim is:

"I have both and there's a big difference in the images."

Sadly no one has produced a single comparison to prove it. All we see is massive crops and the WHOLE of the photos are the same. Bottom line is that for most shooters the D800e is not money well spent, except in that magic land of Oz!

But what is NOT small are the issues I see from the E when shooting video. Some will say it's not a big deal, but if you plan to do any serious video/filmaking with a D800, skip the E version. It creates significantly worse moire and edge artifacts. I've seen it first-hand.

I would like to see this difference. It seems to me that the AA filter in the D800 is not strong enough to have any affect on the down sampled video. I believe aliasing and moiré in video will be identical between the D800 and D800E.

Can you show me side-by-side examples?

I don't have any of my own. I work with a producer who's been shooting a low budget horror film using the D800 and 5DIII. He tried the E version, but got artifacts shooting on water. I recall a youtube video showing the same issue and how a aftermarket filter could ease the issue for the E.

None of it really matters. Spend the money in the manner in which it makes you happiest! But in my viewing of side-by-side still shots, atmospheric conditions would mean more than which version of the D800 you happened to have in hand. My friend shoots fabrics/fashion and even he says he can't tell the files apart most of the time.

Robert

Robert

 Shotcents's gear list:Shotcents's gear list
Nikon Coolpix P7700 Nikon D800 Nikon D5200 Nikon Df Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II +10 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Robin Casady
Forum ProPosts: 11,662
Like?
Re: Before I take the plunge and purchase a Nikon D800e. Any thoughts on the rumored
In reply to Shotcents, Apr 15, 2013

Shotcents wrote:

Robin Casady wrote:

Shotcents wrote:

But what is NOT small are the issues I see from the E when shooting video. Some will say it's not a big deal, but if you plan to do any serious video/filmaking with a D800, skip the E version. It creates significantly worse moire and edge artifacts. I've seen it first-hand.

I would like to see this difference. It seems to me that the AA filter in the D800 is not strong enough to have any affect on the down sampled video. I believe aliasing and moiré in video will be identical between the D800 and D800E.

Can you show me side-by-side examples?

I don't have any of my own. I work with a producer who's been shooting a low budget horror film using the D800 and 5DIII. He tried the E version, but got artifacts shooting on water.

Did he shoot the same scene with a D800? Did you see the results?

I recall a youtube video showing the same issue and how a aftermarket filter could ease the issue for the E.

The D800 has aliasing issues as well. I've not seen anything to show that they are less on the D800 than the D800E.

The VAF-D800 Optical Anti-Aliasing Filter is for both the D800 and the D800E. Their page shows an example of D800 video moiré and it being eliminated with their filter.

-- hide signature --

Robin Casady
http://www.robincasady.com/Photo/index.html
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts."
— Bertrand Russell

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Bill Hollinger
Senior MemberPosts: 1,071
Like?
Re: Before I take the plunge and purchase a Nikon D800e. Any thoughts on the rumored
In reply to iwannabesedated, Apr 15, 2013

iwannabesedated wrote:

Matt Cant Photography wrote:

anyone see much difference in the 800 compared with the 800e

I have both, and now shoot the D800E almost exclusively. I see a difference - D800E pics are discernably sharper and require less work in post. I believe the higher price is well justified. Regards and best wishes. -iwbs

I agree with you. I used the D800 for a week, shot a lot with the 600 f4, as well as other good lenses, then tried the E. I saw what to me was a significant difference. In many thousands of images, I saw only three instances of moire, and those were in very tiny areas visible only at 100%. I also shot some video, and didn’t experience moire or artifacts, but I do know Philip Bloom recommends against using it. I typically use the FS700 and EX1R for video, so video use is not a big deal for me.

A friend who earns a living selling very large color prints was impressed enough with the E that he is contemplating switching to it was the medium format digitals. He uses a very sophisticated stitching method, so 36MP are not a limiting factor for him.

I once used a 12MP Ricoh with no AA filter and Leica lenses. I compared it against images from the 16MP NEX5 taken with the same lenses and the NEX7, again with Leica M lenses. The differences there and with the D800E make me inclined to choose a sensor without the AA filter in the future, if the choice is available.

The best way to decide for yourself is to rent them from a company like Lens Rentals and make your own decisions.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Jane79
Regular MemberPosts: 333Gear list
Like?
Re: Before I take the plunge and purchase a Nikon D800e. Any thoughts on the rumored
In reply to Matt Cant Photography, Apr 15, 2013

The D4x is overdue, and - as Robin already said - you don't need a crystal ball to predict that it will be the highest resolution Nikon camera at time of introduction, just like the D1x, D2x and D3x were when they were announced.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
AZBlue
Contributing MemberPosts: 865Gear list
Like?
Re: Before I take the plunge and purchase a Nikon D800e. Any thoughts on the rumored
In reply to iwannabesedated, Apr 15, 2013

iwannabesedated wrote:

Matt Cant Photography wrote:

anyone see much difference in the 800 compared with the 800e

I have both, and now shoot the D800E almost exclusively. I see a difference - D800E pics are discernably sharper and require less work in post. I believe the higher price is well justified. Regards and best wishes. -iwbs

The only difference I have been able to see from the myriad of samples posted online is one of micro contrast. The D800E has higher micro contrast than the D800, making its images appear sharper before applying any post processing. However, the same micro contrast can be added to D800 files in just a few seconds, and given that all images have to be sharpened for their intended destinations means that most images will require PP and the tiny step of adding more micro contrast and a slightly higher sharpening setting to D800 files is totally trivial.

I will count myself among those who have not seen enough of a difference to justify the higher price. In my mind, the extra money would be better spent in the bank and applied towards a future camera upgrade that will give me a difference that I don't need a magnifying glass to see.

-- hide signature --

"I've been in more laps than a napkin" - Mae West

 AZBlue's gear list:AZBlue's gear list
Nikon D800 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 16-35mm f/4G ED VR Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED Nikon AF Nikkor 20mm f/2.8D Sigma 150mm F2.8 EX DG OS Macro HSM +1 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Shotcents
Senior MemberPosts: 3,905Gear list
Like?
Re: Before I take the plunge and purchase a Nikon D800e. Any thoughts on the rumored
In reply to Bill Hollinger, Apr 15, 2013

And again....

D800e owners say "significant difference"

D800 owners say "no or minimal difference"

Most review sites say "minimal to no difference"

Plenty of folks own both and have posted samples. It takes heavy pixel peeping to see a difference and in post it's gone.

I idea that the D800e has a real world advantage is just not born out by evidence. Most D800 shooters could not tell the IQ from a well exposed 5D3 file for that matter. The whole thing is fairly silly and has little to do with photography.

That's my view and I'm sticking to it!

Cheers,

Robert

 Shotcents's gear list:Shotcents's gear list
Nikon Coolpix P7700 Nikon D800 Nikon D5200 Nikon Df Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II +10 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads