D7100 owners having to INCREASE shutter speeds to avoid softness?

Started Apr 15, 2013 | Discussions
mistermejia
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D7100 owners having to INCREASE shutter speeds to avoid softness?
Apr 15, 2013

Has anyone noticed or experienced this if you bought D7100 comming from D7000 or with a lower MP camera?  Are new D7100 owners using the shutter speeds the same way as before meaning doubleing the shutter speed as with the D7000, has anything changed?

Also not just with the D7100 but with any 24MP camera in general.  Also have any of you had the need to upgrade lenses to keep up with these newer bodies?

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Dirk W
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Re: D7100 owners having to INCREASE shutter speeds to avoid softness?
In reply to mistermejia, Apr 15, 2013

Exactly, I experience that I need shorter shutter speeds to avoid motion blur due to the high pixel density and missing aa-filter. And the lens weaknesses become very obvious. I had to return a 55-300 because it just did not perform well enough for the sensor. Better glass is needed.

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Reilly Diefenbach
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Re: D7100 owners having to INCREASE shutter speeds to avoid softness?
In reply to mistermejia, Apr 15, 2013

But you're not buying one, as you've said, or am I not up to date :^)

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mistermejia
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Re: D7100 owners having to INCREASE shutter speeds to avoid softness?
In reply to Reilly Diefenbach, Apr 15, 2013

Reilly Diefenbach wrote:

But you're not buying one, as you've said, or am I not up to date :^)

Hi Reilly, at least not right now since i am broke, and now the D3200 is out of the question since i completely did not like not having the external buttons/functons, sorry i just can't use one of those bodies.  That's the update on that

The reason why i am asking is because i reviewed the photos i took at the camera shop with the D7100 and the people's faces that i took are simply blurry, the cloths looks nice and sharp, but the person's faces looks blurry, the people that were there were not posing for me or anything, i was just randomly shooting at whoever was there, the people were not running or anything, they were just standing there moving in a normal way as i was shooting, and i was bouncing flash, i was not in extreme low light or anything like that either.

The point is that i am thinking that at this point in time ANY 24MP sensor will demmand THE best possible lenses that will match the capability of this cameras.  I mean, i used the 17-55 at around F4 and between 35 and 55mm, and a shutter speed of around 250, at ISO 100.  Sorry i am not home and i don't exactly recall the exact shutter speed and apperture, but for sure that's the ball park.

I am honestly starting to "imagine" that a 16MP or lower size sensor is BEST for shooting under normal conditions and for what most people use a camera for, just for fun, and mostly without a tripod.  In another words, this cameras are just not for everybody, no?  With the D7000 it was said to double the shutter speeds, should it be "trippled" with a 24MP sensor??

Can someone throw some light here, Am i the only one that is starting to notice this?  Perhaphs Nikon should make the next camera with a 16/18 MP sensor but with big ass pixles for better low light performance and the rest they should just leave it the way it is, no?

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nfpotter
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Re: D7100 owners having to INCREASE shutter speeds to avoid softness?
In reply to mistermejia, Apr 15, 2013

mistermejia wrote:

Reilly Diefenbach wrote:

But you're not buying one, as you've said, or am I not up to date :^)

Hi Reilly, at least not right now since i am broke, and now the D3200 is out of the question since i completely did not like not having the external buttons/functons, sorry i just can't use one of those bodies.  That's the update on that

The reason why i am asking is because i reviewed the photos i took at the camera shop with the D7100 and the people's faces that i took are simply blurry, the cloths looks nice and sharp, but the person's faces looks blurry, the people that were there were not posing for me or anything, i was just randomly shooting at whoever was there, the people were not running or anything, they were just standing there moving in a normal way as i was shooting, and i was bouncing flash, i was not in extreme low light or anything like that either.

The point is that i am thinking that at this point in time ANY 24MP sensor will demmand THE best possible lenses that will match the capability of this cameras.  I mean, i used the 17-55 at around F4 and between 35 and 55mm, and a shutter speed of around 250, at ISO 100.  Sorry i am not home and i don't exactly recall the exact shutter speed and apperture, but for sure that's the ball park.

I am honestly starting to "imagine" that a 16MP or lower size sensor is BEST for shooting under normal conditions and for what most people use a camera for, just for fun, and mostly without a tripod.  In another words, this cameras are just not for everybody, no?  With the D7000 it was said to double the shutter speeds, should it be "trippled" with a 24MP sensor??

Can someone throw some light here, Am i the only one that is starting to notice this?  Perhaphs Nikon should make the next camera with a 16/18 MP sensor but with big ass pixles for better low light performance and the rest they should just leave it the way it is, no?

You're thinking WAY too hard.

Hand me the D7100.  My shots will look just as good (or bad) as they do with my D7000, D300, or D80.

Pixel-peeping is an exercise in futility.

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mistermejia
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Re: D7100 owners having to INCREASE shutter speeds to avoid softness?
In reply to nfpotter, Apr 15, 2013

nfpotter wrote:

mistermejia wrote:

Reilly Diefenbach wrote:

But you're not buying one, as you've said, or am I not up to date :^)

Hi Reilly, at least not right now since i am broke, and now the D3200 is out of the question since i completely did not like not having the external buttons/functons, sorry i just can't use one of those bodies.  That's the update on that

The reason why i am asking is because i reviewed the photos i took at the camera shop with the D7100 and the people's faces that i took are simply blurry, the cloths looks nice and sharp, but the person's faces looks blurry, the people that were there were not posing for me or anything, i was just randomly shooting at whoever was there, the people were not running or anything, they were just standing there moving in a normal way as i was shooting, and i was bouncing flash, i was not in extreme low light or anything like that either.

The point is that i am thinking that at this point in time ANY 24MP sensor will demmand THE best possible lenses that will match the capability of this cameras.  I mean, i used the 17-55 at around F4 and between 35 and 55mm, and a shutter speed of around 250, at ISO 100.  Sorry i am not home and i don't exactly recall the exact shutter speed and apperture, but for sure that's the ball park.

I am honestly starting to "imagine" that a 16MP or lower size sensor is BEST for shooting under normal conditions and for what most people use a camera for, just for fun, and mostly without a tripod.  In another words, this cameras are just not for everybody, no?  With the D7000 it was said to double the shutter speeds, should it be "trippled" with a 24MP sensor??

Can someone throw some light here, Am i the only one that is starting to notice this?  Perhaphs Nikon should make the next camera with a 16/18 MP sensor but with big ass pixles for better low light performance and the rest they should just leave it the way it is, no?

You're thinking WAY too hard.

Hand me the D7100.  My shots will look just as good (or bad) as they do with my D7000, D300, or D80.

Pixel-peeping is an exercise in futility.

I am not a pixle peeper and i was not doing that with the photos, the faces just look blurry, and who wants photos of friend's/family with blurry faces.  That's all.  I rather have their body look blurry and not their beautiful faces/expressions.  I guess 250 shutter speed maybe is too slow, or i can just ask "hey can you please not move".

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Stacey_K
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Re: D7100 owners having to INCREASE shutter speeds to avoid softness?
In reply to mistermejia, Apr 15, 2013

mistermejia wrote:

Has anyone noticed or experienced this if you bought D7100 comming from D7000 or with a lower MP camera?  Are new D7100 owners using the shutter speeds the same way as before meaning doubleing the shutter speed as with the D7000, has anything changed?

Also not just with the D7100 but with any 24MP camera in general.  Also have any of you had the need to upgrade lenses to keep up with these newer bodies?

Even with  D7000, to get everything it is capable of requires absolutely perfect technique. Even with medium shutter speeds on a tripod, I can plainly see when I used MLU with remote release vs setting the in camera timer with no MLU. The "rule" of 1/focal length for a shutter speed setting might have worked for 35mm film but no longer applies if you are looking for max resolution. I typically use 2X focal length as the min is possible on my D700. I haven't used a D7100 but I would have to assume that with a higher pixel density this would be even more critical.

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six34sigma
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Not me - D7100 owners having to INCREASE shutter speeds to avoid softness?
In reply to mistermejia, Apr 15, 2013

Not noticing this one whit. The D7100 is performing admirably with my lenses 16-85 3.5-5.6G/85 1.8G/80-200 2.8D/11-16 2.8. The only lens I have not taken time to micro adjust is my 50 1.5D. Probably going to ditch it anyway and get a 60 2.8G. Suppose one might argue that I have good glass, but its average at best.

Took a picture of my son coming down a slide, no issue. Took pictures of the Detroit skyline from Windsor, no issue, the dog ..... In fact people shots, kids (from a birthday party my son attended) and people in particular are turning out quite nicely. In general try to keep ISO low, aperture as appropriate depending on what effect I am trying to achieve and shutter speed as high as possible. Imagine many others try to do the same thing.

My shots are fine and better than my D90 in terms of IQ, but have not gone rummaging around looking at 100% or 200% views. I am going to take a shot from the above mentioned birthday party which I took with my 85 1.8G that I thought was nice of a mom and son and print at 20x30 just to see if there are issues. My opinion based on what I can see on my monitor is the shot will print extremely well.

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Regards,
Sanjay

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mistermejia
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Re: Not me - D7100 owners having to INCREASE shutter speeds to avoid softness?
In reply to six34sigma, Apr 15, 2013

six34sigma wrote:

Not noticing this one whit. The D7100 is performing admirably with my lenses 16-85 3.5-5.6G/85 1.8G/80-200 2.8D/11-16 2.8. The only lens I have not taken time to micro adjust is my 50 1.5D. Probably going to ditch it anyway and get a 60 2.8G. Suppose one might argue that I have good glass, but its average at best.

Took a picture of my son coming down a slide, no issue. Took pictures of the Detroit skyline from Windsor, no issue, the dog ..... In fact people shots, kids (from a birthday party my son attended) and people in particular are turning out quite nicely. In general try to keep ISO low, aperture as appropriate depending on what effect I am trying to achieve and shutter speed as high as possible. Imagine many others try to do the same thing.

My shots are fine and better than my D90 in terms of IQ, but have not gone rummaging around looking at 100% or 200% views. I am going to take a shot from the above mentioned birthday party which I took with my 85 1.8G that I thought was nice of a mom and son and print at 20x30 just to see if there are issues. My opinion based on what I can see on my monitor is the shot will print extremely well.

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Regards,
Sanjay

Well, it is very possible that the D7100 body i used at the store needs AF fine tuning.  Did you have to tune your lenses or did you tuned them anyways?

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six34sigma
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Re: Not me - D7100 owners having to INCREASE shutter speeds to avoid softness?
In reply to mistermejia, Apr 15, 2013

Have not tuned the 16-85/85 or 80-200. The 11-16 however need tuning (-4). Suppose I should tune the three lenses but am i) concerned with different tuning values for 80 and 200 mm lenghts for example, don't know how to handle that and ii) am happy with the output. For the 11-16, I set up at 13 mm and tuned there, it may have been the wrong thing to do i.e. should have tuned independently at 11 and 16 mm but it seems to have worked out.

Good luck with your D7100.

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Sanjay

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DEEWUN
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Re: Not me - D7100 owners having to INCREASE shutter speeds to avoid softness?
In reply to mistermejia, Apr 15, 2013

All your speculation is based on an incident in a store with bad lighting and details you can't remember. Your profile shows thousands of posts and I wonder how many of them are griping about the performance of a camera you don't own.

I bought my camera, read the manual, and then used it! I find it performs pretty well for me http://www.flickr.com/photos/46069415@N00/8639726383/  in a portrait situation and in "normal" shooting:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/46069415@N00/8643718266/in/photostream/, where you will see that the shutter speed was relatively long.

I urge you to buy or hire the camera and get out there shooting so that you have some basis on which to base your whining.

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scokill
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Re: D7100 owners having to INCREASE shutter speeds to avoid softness?
In reply to mistermejia, Apr 15, 2013

mistermejia wrote:

Reilly Diefenbach wrote:

But you're not buying one, as you've said, or am I not up to date :^)

Hi Reilly, at least not right now since i am broke, and now the D3200 is out of the question since i completely did not like not having the external buttons/functons, sorry i just can't use one of those bodies.  That's the update on that

The reason why i am asking is because i reviewed the photos i took at the camera shop with the D7100 and the people's faces that i took are simply blurry, the cloths looks nice and sharp, but the person's faces looks blurry, the people that were there were not posing for me or anything, i was just randomly shooting at whoever was there, the people were not running or anything, they were just standing there moving in a normal way as i was shooting, and i was bouncing flash, i was not in extreme low light or anything like that either.

The point is that i am thinking that at this point in time ANY 24MP sensor will demmand THE best possible lenses that will match the capability of this cameras.  I mean, i used the 17-55 at around F4 and between 35 and 55mm, and a shutter speed of around 250, at ISO 100.  Sorry i am not home and i don't exactly recall the exact shutter speed and apperture, but for sure that's the ball park.

I am honestly starting to "imagine" that a 16MP or lower size sensor is BEST for shooting under normal conditions and for what most people use a camera for, just for fun, and mostly without a tripod.  In another words, this cameras are just not for everybody, no?  With the D7000 it was said to double the shutter speeds, should it be "trippled" with a 24MP sensor??

Can someone throw some light here, Am i the only one that is starting to notice this?  Perhaphs Nikon should make the next camera with a 16/18 MP sensor but with big ass pixles for better low light performance and the rest they should just leave it the way it is, no?

So you are broke and not really truly in the market for a camera and you are posting all these questions?  Is this some form of entertainment, or are you like a "doomsday prepper" except a camera "purchase prepper"?

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mistermejia
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Re: Not me - D7100 owners having to INCREASE shutter speeds to avoid softness?
In reply to DEEWUN, Apr 15, 2013

DEEWUN wrote:

All your speculation is based on an incident in a store with bad lighting and details you can't remember. Your profile shows thousands of posts and I wonder how many of them are griping about the performance of a camera you don't own.

I bought my camera, read the manual, and then used it! I find it performs pretty well for me http://www.flickr.com/photos/46069415@N00/8639726383/  in a portrait situation and in "normal" shooting:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/46069415@N00/8643718266/in/photostream/, where you will see that the shutter speed was relatively long.

I urge you to buy or hire the camera and get out there shooting so that you have some basis on which to base your whining.

Speculation???  What speculation?  Not whining here my brother/sister, just asking a question.

Sorry, i am not as rich as you to just go out and spend $1200 dollars

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DEEWUN
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Re: Not me - D7100 owners having to INCREASE shutter speeds to avoid softness?
In reply to mistermejia, Apr 15, 2013

Looking at the record of your posts it appears that your questions all have a negative connotation to them so maybe I may be excused for thinking that you may be a whiner. As to being rich, I have saved a little from my salary over the years and, as a senior citizen I feel that I am able to indulge myself. For many years, to increase my savings I worked two jobs - maybe that is an option you should consider.

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mistermejia
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DEEWUN...
In reply to mistermejia, Apr 15, 2013

mistermejia wrote:

DEEWUN wrote:

All your speculation is based on an incident in a store with bad lighting and details you can't remember. Your profile shows thousands of posts and I wonder how many of them are griping about the performance of a camera you don't own.

I bought my camera, read the manual, and then used it! I find it performs pretty well for me http://www.flickr.com/photos/46069415@N00/8639726383/  in a portrait situation and in "normal" shooting:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/46069415@N00/8643718266/in/photostream/, where you will see that the shutter speed was relatively long.

I urge you to buy or hire the camera and get out there shooting so that you have some basis on which to base your whining.

Speculation???  What speculation?  Not whining here my brother/sister, just asking a question.

Sorry, i am not as rich as you to just go out and spend $1200 dollars

Deewun, please don't tell me that you are upset at me because i laughed at swordman comment when he called your lady dog a "bitch" in that thread you created a couple days ago.  I hope you are not holding a grudge against me over that.  I didn't mean any disrespect toward you or your friend's dog, that's the honest truth.  I just wasn't expecting swordman to say what he said and his comment simply cought me off guard, that's all.  i apoligize to you

I hope you accept it.

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Brev00
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Re: Not me - D7100 owners having to INCREASE shutter speeds to avoid softness?
In reply to mistermejia, Apr 15, 2013

I am afraid you have fallen victim to ASSS (anti-stabilized store shots). This often happens to innocent folk like yourself when tentatively using someone else's camera in an uncomfortable situation. No way to get a feel for gear. When and if you buy the camera, you will raise your game to what is needed. So, don't sweat it.
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demarren 123
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Re: D7100 owners having to INCREASE shutter speeds to avoid softness?
In reply to mistermejia, Apr 15, 2013

mistermejia wrote:

Has anyone noticed or experienced this if you bought D7100 comming from D7000 or with a lower MP camera?  Are new D7100 owners using the shutter speeds the same way as before meaning doubleing the shutter speed as with the D7000, has anything changed?

Also not just with the D7100 but with any 24MP camera in general.  Also have any of you had the need to upgrade lenses to keep up with these newer bodies?

I never heard of double the shutter speed.

So you are saying you need to shoot at for example 1/200 and double to /1/400

to what end.

OK I am lost here.

I shoot with the D3200 and my pictures are not blurry.

Even it have also 24 mpixels.

A better lens take indeed more advance of the censor.

Is that not with al camera's.

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mosswings
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Re: D7100 owners having to INCREASE shutter speeds to avoid softness?
In reply to Stacey_K, Apr 15, 2013

Stacey_K wrote:

mistermejia wrote:

Has anyone noticed or experienced this if you bought D7100 comming from D7000 or with a lower MP camera?  Are new D7100 owners using the shutter speeds the same way as before meaning doubleing the shutter speed as with the D7000, has anything changed?

Also not just with the D7100 but with any 24MP camera in general.  Also have any of you had the need to upgrade lenses to keep up with these newer bodies?

Even with  D7000, to get everything it is capable of requires absolutely perfect technique. Even with medium shutter speeds on a tripod, I can plainly see when I used MLU with remote release vs setting the in camera timer with no MLU. The "rule" of 1/focal length for a shutter speed setting might have worked for 35mm film but no longer applies if you are looking for max resolution. I typically use 2X focal length as the min is possible on my D700. I haven't used a D7100 but I would have to assume that with a higher pixel density this would be even more critical.

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Stacey

+1.

I've stopped using any shutter speed slower than about 1/200 when using my 18-105 on my D90, a lowly 12MP body, for cryin' out loud, because I realized that that is the bare minimum for stopping slow subject motion across the frame. Things don't start getting really super sharp until I'm closer to 1/300 - 1/400, and if I've got the 70-300 mounted, well, it's 1/1000 time if I can hack it.  As I get older, I find that I have to very consciously SLOW DOWN, let my breath out, suck my elbows into my chest, and SQUEEZE the shutter button, then WAIT until I hear the mirror return.  I've also begun short burst shooting...letting 2 or 3 shots off and picking the best one.  It does work.

Now, a lot of folks will say that you don't need the shot technique of the gods for higher res cameras, and that is only partly true...young guns have finer motor control stability than middle agesters, and working pros are more practiced than hobbyists (sometimes).  One can start proposing this and that mathematigeometric theory for the optimum shutter speed increase, but if we consider the march from the D90 to the D7000 to the D7100, that represents only a 15% and 20% increase in linear resolution respectively, so if you were used to shooting at 1/X, you would need at most a 1/(1.4x) increment in shutter speed to go 2 generations...if you were shooting right at the point where you could notice a blurring at the pixel level.  Anything faster and you wouldn't notice until you passed that detectability threshold.

Remember, though, that you don't have to have a 24MP sharp image if you're downsizing...noise still goes down.  It's just that you've done a little mechanical averaging during capture.

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mistermejia
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Re: D7100 owners having to INCREASE shutter speeds to avoid softness?
In reply to mosswings, Apr 15, 2013

mosswings wrote:

Stacey_K wrote:

mistermejia wrote:

Has anyone noticed or experienced this if you bought D7100 comming from D7000 or with a lower MP camera?  Are new D7100 owners using the shutter speeds the same way as before meaning doubleing the shutter speed as with the D7000, has anything changed?

Also not just with the D7100 but with any 24MP camera in general.  Also have any of you had the need to upgrade lenses to keep up with these newer bodies?

Even with  D7000, to get everything it is capable of requires absolutely perfect technique. Even with medium shutter speeds on a tripod, I can plainly see when I used MLU with remote release vs setting the in camera timer with no MLU. The "rule" of 1/focal length for a shutter speed setting might have worked for 35mm film but no longer applies if you are looking for max resolution. I typically use 2X focal length as the min is possible on my D700. I haven't used a D7100 but I would have to assume that with a higher pixel density this would be even more critical.

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Stacey

+1.

I've stopped using any shutter speed slower than about 1/200 when using my 18-105 on my D90, a lowly 12MP body, for cryin' out loud, because I realized that that is the bare minimum for stopping slow subject motion across the frame. Things don't start getting really super sharp until I'm closer to 1/300 - 1/400, and if I've got the 70-300 mounted, well, it's 1/1000 time if I can hack it.  As I get older, I find that I have to very consciously SLOW DOWN, let my breath out, suck my elbows into my chest, and SQUEEZE the shutter button, then WAIT until I hear the mirror return.  I've also begun short burst shooting...letting 2 or 3 shots off and picking the best one.  It does work.

Now, a lot of folks will say that you don't need the shot technique of the gods for higher res cameras, and that is only partly true...young guns have finer motor control stability than middle agesters, and working pros are more practiced than hobbyists (sometimes).  One can start proposing this and that mathematigeometric theory for the optimum shutter speed increase, but if we consider the march from the D90 to the D7000 to the D7100, that represents only a 15% and 20% increase in linear resolution respectively, so if you were used to shooting at 1/X, you would need at most a 1/(1.4x) increment in shutter speed to go 2 generations...if you were shooting right at the point where you could notice a blurring at the pixel level.  Anything faster and you wouldn't notice until you passed that detectability threshold.

Remember, though, that you don't have to have a 24MP sharp image if you're downsizing...noise still goes down.  It's just that you've done a little mechanical averaging during capture.

That's a very good reminder, i personally have to work on that, i tend to move the camera right after i took the shot thinking that the photo went thru, perhaphs i should wait half a second more and let the mirror finish its thing.

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nfpotter
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Re: D7100 owners having to INCREASE shutter speeds to avoid softness?
In reply to mistermejia, Apr 15, 2013

mistermejia wrote:

mosswings wrote:

Stacey_K wrote:

mistermejia wrote:

Has anyone noticed or experienced this if you bought D7100 comming from D7000 or with a lower MP camera?  Are new D7100 owners using the shutter speeds the same way as before meaning doubleing the shutter speed as with the D7000, has anything changed?

Also not just with the D7100 but with any 24MP camera in general.  Also have any of you had the need to upgrade lenses to keep up with these newer bodies?

Even with  D7000, to get everything it is capable of requires absolutely perfect technique. Even with medium shutter speeds on a tripod, I can plainly see when I used MLU with remote release vs setting the in camera timer with no MLU. The "rule" of 1/focal length for a shutter speed setting might have worked for 35mm film but no longer applies if you are looking for max resolution. I typically use 2X focal length as the min is possible on my D700. I haven't used a D7100 but I would have to assume that with a higher pixel density this would be even more critical.

-- hide signature --

Stacey

+1.

I've stopped using any shutter speed slower than about 1/200 when using my 18-105 on my D90, a lowly 12MP body, for cryin' out loud, because I realized that that is the bare minimum for stopping slow subject motion across the frame. Things don't start getting really super sharp until I'm closer to 1/300 - 1/400, and if I've got the 70-300 mounted, well, it's 1/1000 time if I can hack it.  As I get older, I find that I have to very consciously SLOW DOWN, let my breath out, suck my elbows into my chest, and SQUEEZE the shutter button, then WAIT until I hear the mirror return.  I've also begun short burst shooting...letting 2 or 3 shots off and picking the best one.  It does work.

Now, a lot of folks will say that you don't need the shot technique of the gods for higher res cameras, and that is only partly true...young guns have finer motor control stability than middle agesters, and working pros are more practiced than hobbyists (sometimes).  One can start proposing this and that mathematigeometric theory for the optimum shutter speed increase, but if we consider the march from the D90 to the D7000 to the D7100, that represents only a 15% and 20% increase in linear resolution respectively, so if you were used to shooting at 1/X, you would need at most a 1/(1.4x) increment in shutter speed to go 2 generations...if you were shooting right at the point where you could notice a blurring at the pixel level.  Anything faster and you wouldn't notice until you passed that detectability threshold.

Remember, though, that you don't have to have a 24MP sharp image if you're downsizing...noise still goes down.  It's just that you've done a little mechanical averaging during capture.

That's a very good reminder, i personally have to work on that, i tend to move the camera right after i took the shot thinking that the photo went thru, perhaphs i should wait half a second more and let the mirror finish its thing.

No.  If you're shooting at 1/100 or faster, you're not going to move that quickly.  Try it, even with 1/30.  Divide a second into 30 pieces.

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