Limitations of m43 in bright light. OMD and Leica 25mm f1.4

Started Apr 14, 2013 | Discussions
Mark Chan
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Limitations of m43 in bright light. OMD and Leica 25mm f1.4
Apr 14, 2013

Went to Hong Kong Disneyland yesterday.

Facing the sun around 2:45pm insisted on using larger aperture (against gut feeling)to try and get some background blurring, so used anywhere between f2.0 - 2.8 whilst attempting to keep shutter speed within 1/4000.

Result was lots of CA making pics generally unsharp...I really appreciate the FF in this situ. Need to use zoom and distance with m43 to make up for this somewhat.

As a bonus can confirm that my copy of the Leica definitely has af issues. Af somehow extends away from the af box with ONLY this lens. I don't experience this with any of my other 6/7 lens.

oysteinvidnes
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Re: Limitations of m43 in bright light. OMD and Leica 25mm f1.4
In reply to Mark Chan, Apr 14, 2013

An ND-filter would be a good idea. ND-filters are extra useful for m43 for excactly this reason.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutral_density_filter

And you can buy step up-rings to attach the same filters on different lenses.

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Sergey Borachev
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Re: Limitations of m43 in bright light. OMD and Leica 25mm f1.4
In reply to Mark Chan, Apr 15, 2013

:-OMark Chan wrote:

Went to Hong Kong Disneyland yesterday.

Facing the sun around 2:45pm insisted on using larger aperture (against gut feeling)to try and get some background blurring, so used anywhere between f2.0 - 2.8 whilst attempting to keep shutter speed within 1/4000.

Result was lots of CA making pics generally unsharp...I really appreciate the FF in this situ. Need to use zoom and distance with m43 to make up for this somewhat.

As a bonus can confirm that my copy of the Leica definitely has af issues. Af somehow extends away from the af box with ONLY this lens. I don't experience this with any of my other 6/7 lens.

That is a known issue with the E-M5 when using very fast lenses - lowest ISO being 200 and highest shutter speed 1/4000 sec.

And I talked about this weakness a whole year ago while researching this camera.  Me bad, bad mouthing something I did not own and had not even touched at that time.  (How dare you?!)  

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Anders W
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Re: Limitations of m43 in bright light. OMD and Leica 25mm f1.4
In reply to Mark Chan, Apr 15, 2013

Mark Chan wrote:

Went to Hong Kong Disneyland yesterday.

Facing the sun around 2:45pm insisted on using larger aperture (against gut feeling)to try and get some background blurring, so used anywhere between f2.0 - 2.8 whilst attempting to keep shutter speed within 1/4000.

Result was lots of CA making pics generally unsharp...I really appreciate the FF in this situ. Need to use zoom and distance with m43 to make up for this somewhat.

What kind of CA (lateral or longitudinal, and if the latter in the in-focus or the out-of-focus area)? Note that CA won't necessarily make an image unsharp once properly corrected in PP (although LoCA in the in-focus area will detract slightly from resolution) and that it does not vary with the brightness of the scene or the exposure. It may become more visible in high-contrast scenes however. Could you post some examples so that we could have a look at what you are talking about?

As a bonus can confirm that my copy of the Leica definitely has af issues. Af somehow extends away from the af box with ONLY this lens. I don't experience this with any of my other 6/7 lens.

What exactly do you mean when you say that "AF somehow extends away from the AF box with ONLY this lens" and how have you tested that? It would surprise me very much if the actual area used for the AF process would differ between lenses even though the box used is exactly the same.

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Anders W
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Re: Limitations of m43 in bright light. OMD and Leica 25mm f1.4
In reply to Sergey Borachev, Apr 15, 2013

Sergey Borachev wrote:

:-OMark Chan wrote:

Went to Hong Kong Disneyland yesterday.

Facing the sun around 2:45pm insisted on using larger aperture (against gut feeling)to try and get some background blurring, so used anywhere between f2.0 - 2.8 whilst attempting to keep shutter speed within 1/4000.

Result was lots of CA making pics generally unsharp...I really appreciate the FF in this situ. Need to use zoom and distance with m43 to make up for this somewhat.

As a bonus can confirm that my copy of the Leica definitely has af issues. Af somehow extends away from the af box with ONLY this lens. I don't experience this with any of my other 6/7 lens.

That is a known issue with the E-M5 when using very fast lenses - lowest ISO being 200 and highest shutter speed 1/4000 sec.

Exactly what is a known issue here? That you can't shoot the E-M5 with a fast prime wide open or thereabout in bright sunlight without over-exposing unless you use an ND filter? Sure.

That you will get some longitudinal CA even in the in-focus area if you shoot a fast prime wide open or thereabout no matter which camera or camera system we are talking about? Again sure, but as a rule no more and sometimes less with MFT lenses (which tend to be pretty well corrected for in-focus LoCA, at least in the center) than with others. At any rate, this is hardly an E-M5 issue.

And I talked about this weakness a whole year ago while researching this camera.  Me bad, bad mouthing something I did not own and had not even touched at that time.  (How dare you?!)  

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Chatokun
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Re: Limitations of m43 in bright light. OMD and Leica 25mm f1.4
In reply to Sergey Borachev, Apr 15, 2013

Sergey Borachev wrote:

That is a known issue with the E-M5 when using very fast lenses - lowest ISO being 200 and highest shutter speed 1/4000 sec.

And I talked about this weakness a whole year ago while researching this camera.  Me bad, bad mouthing something I did not own and had not even touched at that time.  (How dare you?!)  

Not that I'm against talking bad about a system... I was curious about the ISO 200 myself, and I assume the shutter speed may be a physical limit, or one they're willing to impose for sake of warranty etc. Still, it's kinda funny... others say Oly overstated their ISO, and some say it works out to being 125 ISO compared to some other cameras, etc etc (no need to explain ISO to me, I don't care, I can take dim shots at 3200, I don't care if it's "really" 1600 or 2000 or whatever).

ISO is too low! ISO is too high! Can't please everyone

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Acrill
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Re: Limitations of m43 in bright light. OMD and Leica 25mm f1.4
In reply to Chatokun, Apr 15, 2013

Try a Panasonic camera for the chromatic aberration auto-correction. Your only option with an Olympus camera+Panasonic lens is to fix the CA in post-production.

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Alumna Gorp
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Re: Limitations of m43 in bright light. OMD and Leica 25mm f1.4
In reply to Acrill, Apr 15, 2013

A polarising filter can be good as well if you already have one.

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Sergey Borachev
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Re: Limitations of m43 in bright light. OMD and Leica 25mm f1.4
In reply to Chatokun, Apr 15, 2013

Chatokun wrote:

Sergey Borachev wrote:

That is a known issue with the E-M5 when using very fast lenses - lowest ISO being 200 and highest shutter speed 1/4000 sec.

And I talked about this weakness a whole year ago while researching this camera.  Me bad, bad mouthing something I did not own and had not even touched at that time.  (How dare you?!)  

Not that I'm against talking bad about a system... I was curious about the ISO 200 myself, and I assume the shutter speed may be a physical limit, or one they're willing to impose for sake of warranty etc. Still, it's kinda funny... others say Oly overstated their ISO, and some say it works out to being 125 ISO compared to some other cameras, etc etc (no need to explain ISO to me, I don't care, I can take dim shots at 3200, I don't care if it's "really" 1600 or 2000 or whatever).

ISO is too low! ISO is too high! Can't please everyone

But you can with more features in future models.  1/8000 sec shutter speed would be nice, or ISO100, even if it is not a real one would still be useful.  Or, somthing like a built-in ND filter that can be selected with a button push on the camera or lens. And also, if Panasonic and Olympus care to communicate more or let their products communicate more to make M43 even better when mixing for the sake of the users.  All those little unnecessary issues, like CA corrected sometimes depending on brand, rattlesnaking, different distortion correction, banding,...

In China/HK, it is one country, 2 systems.  Here we seem to have 1 system, 2 standards.

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CrisPhoto
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Re: Limitations of m43 in bright light. OMD and Leica 25mm f1.4
In reply to Alumna Gorp, Apr 15, 2013

Alumna Gorp wrote:

A polarising filter can be good as well if you already have one.

Yes, that's a good idea.

I came to the same conclusion when  I faced the "ISO 200" issue.

My workaround:

  • Attach the polariser filter which gains 1 stop
  • over expose +1EV and use RAW for another stop

Let me explain over expose: The OM-D has about 400% over expose capability. Other cams like my old Minolta have only 200%. So by setting exposure to +1EV I don't lose much but get the aperture down from 2.0 to 1.4.

By the way, the over-exposure capability is the reason why DXO says that (compared to max. sensor saturation) the cam would have about ISO 100.

But this is not how ISO is measured, compared to 50% grey in OM-Ds JPG output the cam has ISO 200 correctly.

Anyhow, by over-exposing (which does not hurt in RAW) and by using the polariser i get the aperture open and therefore I hesitate to buy a ND filter. If I would, I would buy a ND64 or so for long exposures ...

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Ulric
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Re: Limitations of m43 in bright light. OMD and Leica 25mm f1.4
In reply to Sergey Borachev, Apr 15, 2013

Sergey Borachev wrote:

 1/8000 sec shutter speed would be nice, or ISO100, even if it is not a real one would still be useful.

Twiddle the exposure compensation knob to +1 and presto, instant unreal iso100.

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Mark Chan
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Re: Limitations of m43 in bright light. OMD and Leica 25mm f1.4
In reply to Sergey Borachev, Apr 15, 2013

Sergey Borachev wrote:

:-OMark Chan wrote:

Went to Hong Kong Disneyland yesterday.

Facing the sun around 2:45pm insisted on using larger aperture (against gut feeling)to try and get some background blurring, so used anywhere between f2.0 - 2.8 whilst attempting to keep shutter speed within 1/4000.

Result was lots of CA making pics generally unsharp...I really appreciate the FF in this situ. Need to use zoom and distance with m43 to make up for this somewhat.

As a bonus can confirm that my copy of the Leica definitely has af issues. Af somehow extends away from the af box with ONLY this lens. I don't experience this with any of my other 6/7 lens.

That is a known issue with the E-M5 when using very fast lenses - lowest ISO being 200 and highest shutter speed 1/4000 sec.

And I talked about this weakness a whole year ago while researching this camera.  Me bad, bad mouthing something I did not own and had not even touched at that time.  (How dare you?!)  

Well, As long as the OP (me) gets the limitations and doesn't lament that the camera is crap blah blah blah, everything is good.

I too discussed this earlier, and only got the cold shoulder / challenges from others regarding the issue with 75mm f1.8.

I'll have to chip in for a ND filter, but even so, I don't think this will fully fix the issue. Large aperture and bright light just don't mix I learnt from another thread.

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Mark Chan
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Re: Limitations of m43 in bright light. OMD and Leica 25mm f1.4
In reply to Anders W, Apr 15, 2013

Anders W wrote:

Mark Chan wrote:

Went to Hong Kong Disneyland yesterday.

Facing the sun around 2:45pm insisted on using larger aperture (against gut feeling)to try and get some background blurring, so used anywhere between f2.0 - 2.8 whilst attempting to keep shutter speed within 1/4000.

Result was lots of CA making pics generally unsharp...I really appreciate the FF in this situ. Need to use zoom and distance with m43 to make up for this somewhat.

What kind of CA (lateral or longitudinal, and if the latter in the in-focus or the out-of-focus area)? Note that CA won't necessarily make an image unsharp once properly corrected in PP (although LoCA in the in-focus area will detract slightly from resolution) and that it does not vary with the brightness of the scene or the exposure. It may become more visible in high-contrast scenes however. Could you post some examples so that we could have a look at what you are talking about?

Anders, I remember you kindly educated me (and other readers) on the same issue with my 75mm f1.8; I believe its LoCA.  I'll try and post later - photos not with me, and time is limited right now...

As a bonus can confirm that my copy of the Leica definitely has af issues. Af somehow extends away from the af box with ONLY this lens. I don't experience this with any of my other 6/7 lens.

What exactly do you mean when you say that "AF somehow extends away from the AF box with ONLY this lens" and how have you tested that? It would surprise me very much if the actual area used for the AF process would differ between lenses even though the box used is exactly the same.

I find it surprising and FRUSTRATING that it occurs.  I have had enough experience with the lens (2 years) to understand that it's not me (the majority of the time).

I don't know why this occurs, but my experience has shown that in spite of having the AF box directly over the subject's head (with sufficient contrast), the final picture that comes out is focused on the background OR somewhere in between.  This occurs when you have a complicated background with shades and what not but ONLY with this lens I have had the most annoying experiences.  The subject / desired focus is often encompassing the entire af box or at least 80% of it.  Yet the initial shot is most often in the background, on a spot that I am sure I did not set focus on, and is at times not within the af box at times.

Redo the whole thing and the shot comes out fine...

I strongly doubt I could rig a test around this.  The only way I have gotten round this is use the small AF box (magnify), which seems to have reduced the 'wrong guessing' significantly.  Unfortunately for me, I forgot to set the fn2 button for thi since the camera was taken in for the lcd bezel fix and came back with the 1.6 firmware and everything reset.

BTW the OMD with the new 1.6 seems a wee bit slower to return from shots...

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Mark Chan
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Re: Limitations of m43 in bright light. OMD and Leica 25mm f1.4
In reply to Sergey Borachev, Apr 15, 2013

Sergey Borachev wrote:

Chatokun wrote:

Sergey Borachev wrote:

That is a known issue with the E-M5 when using very fast lenses - lowest ISO being 200 and highest shutter speed 1/4000 sec.

And I talked about this weakness a whole year ago while researching this camera.  Me bad, bad mouthing something I did not own and had not even touched at that time.  (How dare you?!)  

Not that I'm against talking bad about a system... I was curious about the ISO 200 myself, and I assume the shutter speed may be a physical limit, or one they're willing to impose for sake of warranty etc. Still, it's kinda funny... others say Oly overstated their ISO, and some say it works out to being 125 ISO compared to some other cameras, etc etc (no need to explain ISO to me, I don't care, I can take dim shots at 3200, I don't care if it's "really" 1600 or 2000 or whatever).

ISO is too low! ISO is too high! Can't please everyone

But you can with more features in future models.  1/8000 sec shutter speed would be nice, or ISO100, even if it is not a real one would still be useful.  Or, somthing like a built-in ND filter that can be selected with a button push on the camera or lens. And also, if Panasonic and Olympus care to communicate more or let their products communicate more to make M43 even better when mixing for the sake of the users.  All those little unnecessary issues, like CA corrected sometimes depending on brand, rattlesnaking, different distortion correction, banding,...

In China/HK, it is one country, 2 systems.  Here we seem to have 1 system, 2 standards.

Lol - totally agree with your last sentence.

They should really fix the CA in software across the system.

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Mark Chan
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Re: Limitations of m43 in bright light. OMD and Leica 25mm f1.4
In reply to Anders W, Apr 15, 2013

Anders W wrote:

Sergey Borachev wrote:

:-OMark Chan wrote:

Went to Hong Kong Disneyland yesterday.

Facing the sun around 2:45pm insisted on using larger aperture (against gut feeling)to try and get some background blurring, so used anywhere between f2.0 - 2.8 whilst attempting to keep shutter speed within 1/4000.

Result was lots of CA making pics generally unsharp...I really appreciate the FF in this situ. Need to use zoom and distance with m43 to make up for this somewhat.

As a bonus can confirm that my copy of the Leica definitely has af issues. Af somehow extends away from the af box with ONLY this lens. I don't experience this with any of my other 6/7 lens.

That is a known issue with the E-M5 when using very fast lenses - lowest ISO being 200 and highest shutter speed 1/4000 sec.

Exactly what is a known issue here? That you can't shoot the E-M5 with a fast prime wide open or thereabout in bright sunlight without over-exposing unless you use an ND filter? Sure.

That you will get some longitudinal CA even in the in-focus area if you shoot a fast prime wide open or thereabout no matter which camera or camera system we are talking about? Again sure, but as a rule no more and sometimes less with MFT lenses (which tend to be pretty well corrected for in-focus LoCA, at least in the center) than with others. At any rate, this is hardly an E-M5 issue.

And I talked about this weakness a whole year ago while researching this camera.  Me bad, bad mouthing something I did not own and had not even touched at that time.  (How dare you?!)  

Anders,

to be fair, this IS a limitation to the current mft - at least to my understanding.  I have yet to purchase a quality ND filter to test whether the bright conditions can be successfully ameliorated to maintain sharpness and background blurring, but I am guessing an ND filter will not help fix the possible 'reflections / refractions' that may result from the large aperture and hence CA (the LoCA you mentioned before?).

I have to stated that the f2.8 setting still gave for a 1/4000 setting, so I was not working out of the limits of the situation.

The FF cameras perform better in built unless you purchase those with 1/2000 (the RX-1) as stopped down to f4, they still give you SOME background blurring, and is critical for portraiture.

I could walk the distance and get a 75-300mm and make do with zooming...

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Anders W
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Re: Limitations of m43 in bright light. OMD and Leica 25mm f1.4
In reply to Mark Chan, Apr 15, 2013

Mark Chan wrote:

Anders W wrote:

Mark Chan wrote:

Went to Hong Kong Disneyland yesterday.

Facing the sun around 2:45pm insisted on using larger aperture (against gut feeling)to try and get some background blurring, so used anywhere between f2.0 - 2.8 whilst attempting to keep shutter speed within 1/4000.

Result was lots of CA making pics generally unsharp...I really appreciate the FF in this situ. Need to use zoom and distance with m43 to make up for this somewhat.

What kind of CA (lateral or longitudinal, and if the latter in the in-focus or the out-of-focus area)? Note that CA won't necessarily make an image unsharp once properly corrected in PP (although LoCA in the in-focus area will detract slightly from resolution) and that it does not vary with the brightness of the scene or the exposure. It may become more visible in high-contrast scenes however. Could you post some examples so that we could have a look at what you are talking about?

Anders, I remember you kindly educated me (and other readers) on the same issue with my 75mm f1.8; I believe its LoCA.  I'll try and post later - photos not with me, and time is limited right now...

No problem. We are in no particular hurry. Post some examples when you find the time.

As a bonus can confirm that my copy of the Leica definitely has af issues. Af somehow extends away from the af box with ONLY this lens. I don't experience this with any of my other 6/7 lens.

What exactly do you mean when you say that "AF somehow extends away from the AF box with ONLY this lens" and how have you tested that? It would surprise me very much if the actual area used for the AF process would differ between lenses even though the box used is exactly the same.

I find it surprising and FRUSTRATING that it occurs.  I have had enough experience with the lens (2 years) to understand that it's not me (the majority of the time).

I don't know why this occurs, but my experience has shown that in spite of having the AF box directly over the subject's head (with sufficient contrast), the final picture that comes out is focused on the background OR somewhere in between.  This occurs when you have a complicated background with shades and what not but ONLY with this lens I have had the most annoying experiences.  The subject / desired focus is often encompassing the entire af box or at least 80% of it.  Yet the initial shot is most often in the background, on a spot that I am sure I did not set focus on, and is at times not within the af box at times.

Redo the whole thing and the shot comes out fine...

I strongly doubt I could rig a test around this.  The only way I have gotten round this is use the small AF box (magnify), which seems to have reduced the 'wrong guessing' significantly.

OK. I've got an idea of what we might be talking about. I still don't think that the cause is that this lens actually uses a bigger AF box than any other although it might seem that way. But the big max aperture along with the kind of images you like to shoot with it may have the AF system fooled more often than with other lenses.

If I were you, I'd still try experimenting a bit with this in peace and quiet at home, just to get a better idea of when it happens, why it happens, and what you can perhaps do to prevent it from happening (apart from switching to a smaller box). For instance, you could try to find a subject such that you can reproduce the problem at home. Once you do, try to check whether it makes a difference how focus is set before you try focusing on the problematic target. Does it make a difference, for example, whether focus is previously set on a subject in front of the difficult target or on one behind it, close to the background that the camera tends to mistake for the subject you actually want to focus on.

Unfortunately for me, I forgot to set the fn2 button for thi since the camera was taken in for the lcd bezel fix and came back with the 1.6 firmware and everything reset.

BTW the OMD with the new 1.6 seems a wee bit slower to return from shots...

Service shops are sometimes a bit over-zealous aren't they? I still have no experience with 1.6 since there didn't seem to be anything in that upgrade that was important to me. But it seems you might have reason to get Fn2 working the way it did.

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Anders W
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Re: Limitations of m43 in bright light. OMD and Leica 25mm f1.4
In reply to Mark Chan, Apr 15, 2013

Mark Chan wrote:

Anders W wrote:

Sergey Borachev wrote:

:-OMark Chan wrote:

Went to Hong Kong Disneyland yesterday.

Facing the sun around 2:45pm insisted on using larger aperture (against gut feeling)to try and get some background blurring, so used anywhere between f2.0 - 2.8 whilst attempting to keep shutter speed within 1/4000.

Result was lots of CA making pics generally unsharp...I really appreciate the FF in this situ. Need to use zoom and distance with m43 to make up for this somewhat.

As a bonus can confirm that my copy of the Leica definitely has af issues. Af somehow extends away from the af box with ONLY this lens. I don't experience this with any of my other 6/7 lens.

That is a known issue with the E-M5 when using very fast lenses - lowest ISO being 200 and highest shutter speed 1/4000 sec.

Exactly what is a known issue here? That you can't shoot the E-M5 with a fast prime wide open or thereabout in bright sunlight without over-exposing unless you use an ND filter? Sure.

That you will get some longitudinal CA even in the in-focus area if you shoot a fast prime wide open or thereabout no matter which camera or camera system we are talking about? Again sure, but as a rule no more and sometimes less with MFT lenses (which tend to be pretty well corrected for in-focus LoCA, at least in the center) than with others. At any rate, this is hardly an E-M5 issue.

And I talked about this weakness a whole year ago while researching this camera.  Me bad, bad mouthing something I did not own and had not even touched at that time.  (How dare you?!)  

Anders,

to be fair, this IS a limitation to the current mft - at least to my understanding.  I have yet to purchase a quality ND filter to test whether the bright conditions can be successfully ameliorated to maintain sharpness and background blurring, but I am guessing an ND filter will not help fix the possible 'reflections / refractions' that may result from the large aperture and hence CA (the LoCA you mentioned before?).

I think it is important to keep the ISO issue and the need for an ND filter apart from the LoCA issue. The first is indeed an issue, not so much because the base ISO on MFT cameras is really so high in comparison with other cameras (remember that the DxO "measured ISO", which is what matters if you are a RAW shooter, is actually about 100 rather than 200 for the E-M5) but because MFT users might want to use really low ISOs more often than those shooting larger sensors (since MFT has more DoF at any given f-stop). I would personally much like to have arbitrarily low ISOs (not only to obviate the need for an ND filter in cases like the one you describe but also because it could potentially yield higher SNR) and I am hopeful that we will have them in a not too distant future. See here

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2013/02/27/rambus-shows-binaryt-pixel-sensor-technology-for-expanded-dynamic-range

and here

http://www.pixim.com/products-and-technology/technology

for example. In the meantime, here is an interesting alternative to an ordinary ND filter:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3451295

When it comes to LoCA, using very large apertures increases the likelihood of LoCA in the in-focus area and MFT users might have stronger incentives (again for DoF reasons) to use such apertures under conditions such that the LoCA becomes rather visible. On the other hand, as I already said, in-focus LoCA is pretty well controlled on most fast MFT primes so I don't see this as a major issue.

I have to stated that the f2.8 setting still gave for a 1/4000 setting, so I was not working out of the limits of the situation.

The FF cameras perform better in built unless you purchase those with 1/2000 (the RX-1) as stopped down to f4, they still give you SOME background blurring, and is critical for portraiture.

I could walk the distance and get a 75-300mm and make do with zooming...

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Anders W
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Re: Limitations of m43 in bright light. OMD and Leica 25mm f1.4
In reply to Mark Chan, Apr 15, 2013

Mark Chan wrote:

Sergey Borachev wrote:

Chatokun wrote:

Sergey Borachev wrote:

That is a known issue with the E-M5 when using very fast lenses - lowest ISO being 200 and highest shutter speed 1/4000 sec.

And I talked about this weakness a whole year ago while researching this camera.  Me bad, bad mouthing something I did not own and had not even touched at that time.  (How dare you?!)  

Not that I'm against talking bad about a system... I was curious about the ISO 200 myself, and I assume the shutter speed may be a physical limit, or one they're willing to impose for sake of warranty etc. Still, it's kinda funny... others say Oly overstated their ISO, and some say it works out to being 125 ISO compared to some other cameras, etc etc (no need to explain ISO to me, I don't care, I can take dim shots at 3200, I don't care if it's "really" 1600 or 2000 or whatever).

ISO is too low! ISO is too high! Can't please everyone

But you can with more features in future models.  1/8000 sec shutter speed would be nice, or ISO100, even if it is not a real one would still be useful.  Or, somthing like a built-in ND filter that can be selected with a button push on the camera or lens. And also, if Panasonic and Olympus care to communicate more or let their products communicate more to make M43 even better when mixing for the sake of the users.  All those little unnecessary issues, like CA corrected sometimes depending on brand, rattlesnaking, different distortion correction, banding,...

In China/HK, it is one country, 2 systems.  Here we seem to have 1 system, 2 standards.

Lol - totally agree with your last sentence.

They should really fix the CA in software across the system.

Note that LoCA, which I would guess is the issue in the particular situation you are talking about, isn't auto-corrected by either Pany or Oly bodies. The reason is that it is difficult to do this automatically without running into problems in certain scenarios.

What is auto-corrected by Pany bodies for Pany lenses (but isn't for any other combo) is lateral CA. But lateral CA is completely independent of the aperture used. In fact, it typically becomes more rather than less visible when you stop down, not because it really increases (it doesn't) but rather because other aberrations that tend to conceal it disappear.

 Anders W's gear list:Anders W's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 Olympus OM-D E-M5 Olympus E-M1 Panasonic Lumix G Vario 14-45mm F3.5-5.6 ASPH OIS Panasonic Lumix G Vario 7-14mm F4 ASPH +21 more
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Mark Chan
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Re: Limitations of m43 in bright light. OMD and Leica 25mm f1.4
In reply to Anders W, Apr 15, 2013

Anders W wrote:

Mark Chan wrote:

Sergey Borachev wrote:

Chatokun wrote:

Sergey Borachev wrote:

That is a known issue with the E-M5 when using very fast lenses - lowest ISO being 200 and highest shutter speed 1/4000 sec.

And I talked about this weakness a whole year ago while researching this camera.  Me bad, bad mouthing something I did not own and had not even touched at that time.  (How dare you?!)  

Not that I'm against talking bad about a system... I was curious about the ISO 200 myself, and I assume the shutter speed may be a physical limit, or one they're willing to impose for sake of warranty etc. Still, it's kinda funny... others say Oly overstated their ISO, and some say it works out to being 125 ISO compared to some other cameras, etc etc (no need to explain ISO to me, I don't care, I can take dim shots at 3200, I don't care if it's "really" 1600 or 2000 or whatever).

ISO is too low! ISO is too high! Can't please everyone

But you can with more features in future models.  1/8000 sec shutter speed would be nice, or ISO100, even if it is not a real one would still be useful.  Or, somthing like a built-in ND filter that can be selected with a button push on the camera or lens. And also, if Panasonic and Olympus care to communicate more or let their products communicate more to make M43 even better when mixing for the sake of the users.  All those little unnecessary issues, like CA corrected sometimes depending on brand, rattlesnaking, different distortion correction, banding,...

In China/HK, it is one country, 2 systems.  Here we seem to have 1 system, 2 standards.

Lol - totally agree with your last sentence.

They should really fix the CA in software across the system.

Note that LoCA, which I would guess is the issue in the particular situation you are talking about, isn't auto-corrected by either Pany or Oly bodies. The reason is that it is difficult to do this automatically without running into problems in certain scenarios.

What is auto-corrected by Pany bodies for Pany lenses (but isn't for any other combo) is lateral CA. But lateral CA is completely independent of the aperture used. In fact, it typically becomes more rather than less visible when you stop down, not because it really increases (it doesn't) but rather because other aberrations that tend to conceal it disappear.

I appreciate that; I do have a 12-35mm f2.8 that loves to show it's ca on my omd...bah.

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Anders W
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Re: Limitations of m43 in bright light. OMD and Leica 25mm f1.4
In reply to Mark Chan, Apr 15, 2013

Mark Chan wrote:

Anders W wrote:

Mark Chan wrote:

Sergey Borachev wrote:

Chatokun wrote:

Sergey Borachev wrote:

That is a known issue with the E-M5 when using very fast lenses - lowest ISO being 200 and highest shutter speed 1/4000 sec.

And I talked about this weakness a whole year ago while researching this camera.  Me bad, bad mouthing something I did not own and had not even touched at that time.  (How dare you?!)  

Not that I'm against talking bad about a system... I was curious about the ISO 200 myself, and I assume the shutter speed may be a physical limit, or one they're willing to impose for sake of warranty etc. Still, it's kinda funny... others say Oly overstated their ISO, and some say it works out to being 125 ISO compared to some other cameras, etc etc (no need to explain ISO to me, I don't care, I can take dim shots at 3200, I don't care if it's "really" 1600 or 2000 or whatever).

ISO is too low! ISO is too high! Can't please everyone

But you can with more features in future models.  1/8000 sec shutter speed would be nice, or ISO100, even if it is not a real one would still be useful.  Or, somthing like a built-in ND filter that can be selected with a button push on the camera or lens. And also, if Panasonic and Olympus care to communicate more or let their products communicate more to make M43 even better when mixing for the sake of the users.  All those little unnecessary issues, like CA corrected sometimes depending on brand, rattlesnaking, different distortion correction, banding,...

In China/HK, it is one country, 2 systems.  Here we seem to have 1 system, 2 standards.

Lol - totally agree with your last sentence.

They should really fix the CA in software across the system.

Note that LoCA, which I would guess is the issue in the particular situation you are talking about, isn't auto-corrected by either Pany or Oly bodies. The reason is that it is difficult to do this automatically without running into problems in certain scenarios.

What is auto-corrected by Pany bodies for Pany lenses (but isn't for any other combo) is lateral CA. But lateral CA is completely independent of the aperture used. In fact, it typically becomes more rather than less visible when you stop down, not because it really increases (it doesn't) but rather because other aberrations that tend to conceal it disappear.

I appreciate that; I do have a 12-35mm f2.8 that loves to show it's ca on my omd...bah.

I am sure it does. It's lovely to see it disappear when you check that box in LR 4.x though.

 Anders W's gear list:Anders W's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 Olympus OM-D E-M5 Olympus E-M1 Panasonic Lumix G Vario 14-45mm F3.5-5.6 ASPH OIS Panasonic Lumix G Vario 7-14mm F4 ASPH +21 more
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