About to Buy -- What do you think ?

Started Apr 13, 2013 | Discussions
123Mike
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Re: Really?
In reply to Guidenet, Apr 16, 2013

Guidenet wrote:

123Mike wrote:

I can code up the computer algorithms that can make all that work in a separate app if I wanted to. ps. I'm so tired of people trying to come out ahead by trying to put me down.

I'm sure for instance, if we go sit down at a computer, I'd code circles around you. Would I go smear your nose into that if we'd be talking about coding? No! But if someone is using a better programming language with better features, when someone looking to program, is better off with one language over the other.

Mike, look at my profile and read the "about me" section. What you wrote above just shows further your lack of knowledge on various subjects of which you try to seem knowledgeable. No good computer programmer or software engineer would have said what you said. No kid with CompSci 101 under his belt would have thought that way.

Nonsense. I'm pointing out that I can write an algorithm that takes multiple images, layer them, and pick and choose to enhance range, while ensuring that no distortion screws it up, like a slight pan or rotate. Can you write an algorithm like that? You keep on trying to put me down. That's your tactic. I'm also showing what I know and what I can. I'm never saying things that is supposed to show how you do not know something. I'm not the one putting others down. You are.

Try mellowing out.

Why? You're constantly insulting me. Left and right. It's part of your every message.

You've got plenty of time in life to learn this stuff.

Learn what? Why are you assuming that I don't know something?

You don't have to be an expert right away.

How do you know what I don't know? You're keep on making assumptions that I know little, how I can't do something. You're just awful!

Learn how to interact with others.

Learn to stop insulting others. Learn to stop putting others down. Learn to stop being so arrogant. That's what!

Learn how to respect other's points of view.

That's rather hypocritical!

Lose the paranoia.

I can assure you, I'm not suffering from any delusions. Are you?

When someone starts a thread about Canon, you don't have to jump in about a Sony a57.

Someone started a thread about buy a camera. It ought to be perfectly acceptable to offer an alternative to a Canon in an open forum. If he wanted Canon and Canon alone specifically, then he should have posted in a Canon specific forum.

Chances are they've already considered it and decided a different direction.

There are plenty of people that have no yet discovered what the Sonys are all about. Ultimately, I'm just here to share my excitement. You're just here to put me down, it seems, just because I'm promoting a brand that is not your brand.

Most of the people here are older more mature men and women who basically respect each other's opinions and don't need your brand of fanboyism.

I find your attitude rather immature. Putting others down to make yourself look superior. That's just arrogant. Such a hypocrite!

Look over your own posting history and see for yourself. I'm not telling you something brand new.

I have absolutely nothing to be ashamed about. Yes, go through the postings. See how I opened. See how people responded. Attacks, ridicule, belittling. And you have the gaul to call *ME* immature. That's rich!

Maybe you're used to World of Warcraft type arguments.

Again with the belittling arrogant assumptions. You have SUCH an attitude! And this completely and utterly escapes you? Swoooosh right over your head? And you consider yourself mature? Good grief!

This is more of a technical digital camera forum for all ages and experience.

First you say that only big experienced mature people can play. Then you say it's for everyone. Plus the hypocrisy is just dripping off left and right.

You don't have to win or lose. Take it easy. Don't try to BS your way through things. It shows.

It's you that so desperately tries to get the last word. Well you know what? The list of extra features of the Sony A57 remains. It has plenty of really great features that your camera does not have.

When you try to BS, understand there are adults with ten times your education and experience who know you're BSing.

I'm pointing out facts. Features that one camera has, that another camera does not have. You're just trying to detract from it, through endless repeated straw man arguments, and anything you can muster up to put me down. You're insulting me on every occasion, and you think it's all normal.

It's different than a group of others your same age and experience. You'll get there some day. You don't have to be there now.

Says the arrogant man.

Try redirecting your passion to photography instead of the gear. Sony doesn't deserve your level of passion. No brand does. Instead learn to be a creative and compelling photographer if that is your desire. Gain those skills. Take classes and tutorials in composition and art. Dare to be great at that. What do you say? Agree? It makes sense, doesn't it?

That's your story and you're stuck with it. I pointed out features, and all I'm getting here is childish bickering, straw man based attacks, insults, denial, refusal to acknowledge a damn thing, downplaying, insults, and all the rest of it.

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123Mike
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Re: Really?
In reply to Bjorn_L, Apr 16, 2013

Bjorn_L wrote:

Guidenet wrote:

123Mike wrote:

I can code up the computer algorithms that can make all that work in a separate app if I wanted to. ps. I'm so tired of people trying to come out ahead by trying to put me down.

I'm sure for instance, if we go sit down at a computer, I'd code circles around you. Would I go smear your nose into that if we'd be talking about coding? No! But if someone is using a better programming language with better features, when someone looking to program, is better off with one language over the other.

Mike, look at my profile and read the "about me" section. What you wrote above just shows further your lack of knowledge on various subjects of which you try to seem knowledgeable. No good computer programmer or software engineer would have said what you said. No kid with CompSci 101 under his belt would have thought that way.

Mike, as someone else who has worked as a programmer your statements on coding (like your camera claims) make no sense.  They illustrate an unfamiliarity with either subject.

At no point in this thread have you looked like you know what you're talking about.  I do not understand why you persist.  No one is born knowing everything.  Why not just relax a bit and go out and learn a few things?  Remember the little mantra I suggested before?  It wouldn't hurt you to try it.

Nonsense! You don't know what I know and what I don't know. I'm literally surrounded by a bunch of arrogant self entitled childish people around here. But you know what? I was warned about that. The other day I was at a camera store, and brought up the subject of online forums and DPR, and pretty much the whole store laughed. The utter shredding and ripping people apart here is just absurd. Insults flying on every single possible occasion. And where does it happen the most? In specific forums like this, where aggressive people like just can't wait to pounce on others. Trying to make yourself look big by trying to put the other guy down.

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123Mike
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Re: Sony provides so much more!
In reply to bugzie, Apr 16, 2013

bugzie wrote:

123Mike wrote:

  • 10 fps burst rate, no compromises
  • 12 fps burst rate, cropped
  • Faster AF
  • 1080/60p/30p/24p video
  • Fast continuous AF during video
  • Stereo Mic
  • HDR
  • In camera panoramas stitching
  • Access to AF lenses from 80s (Minolta mostly)
  • Live view always available with no compromises
  • Excellent low light abilities
  • Camera body based stabilization
  • Focus peaking
  • Kelvin WB Adjustment
  • Lens Correction for CAs, Distortion, Vignetting
  • 15 Point AF
  • Wireles Flash Commander
  • High Speed Flash Snyc
  • 100%/1.04x EVF

Mike, I'm sure your camera is lots of fun. And you really enjoy it. But some people are going to look at your list of features and see it is a list of features.

Offering plenty of things that you can't do with your camera.

A list that is sure to attract some beginners.

And people that wish to take 60p video with continuous fast auto focus. Like, oooooh normal families, say. You know, normal consumers. People that want a camera to capture their lives.

It's designed to be impressive.

And it is. It is not some sort of scam or lie. It really is impressive.

More seasoned photographers are going to look at some of those features and say, "meh".

Try that in a Sony forum. Let's see how you last with those pathetic arguments. You wouldn't last 5 seconds.

My iPhone 5 does those sweep panoramas with a vertical orientation for increased depth. Fun? Yes. Serious. No!

You're going to compete with an A57 using an iPhone. Rrigghhtt.... Desperate for arguments eh?

It's up to the more experienced of us to advise inexperienced photographers that some of these features are dinky.

Plenty of very experienced people choosing Sony and getting plenty out of it. Stop treating it as if it's some sort of toy beneath you're Canikon. It isn't.

Or that EVFs are controversial in the sense that some photographers prefer the traditional OVF. They don't consider an EVF a "feature". We're here to translate this stuff to beginners.

And those beginners should consider an Alpha, because it's good.

That's the whole point of this forum. To get beyond the sales pitch.

Yes, and I'm one of the people that point out that the Alpha in real life is good and that it's not a gimmick as others here are trying to have others believe.

That's why beginners are advised to go to a store and have a look at any prospective camera.

And come to forums like this to gauge what the choices are.

For some people, an EVF will be a deal breaker. Yes, some people absolutely love them. But it's misleading for a camera manufacturer to list it as a "feature" when some people won't like it.

It is a different way to access what the camera is seeing. It's the data from the sensor. There are big advantages there.

You can argue the merits until the cows come home (and you do!). The fact is some people won't want an EVF.

You don't, because you have an OVF. You're only imagining what an EVF does. You want to like what you want like. I've had both, and I find the arguments putting EVF down weak and flawed.

Wireless flash commander? To use this feature, you need to buy some flash guns. It may be a rather pointless feature for most beginners. Only mid-range cameras have this feature. Pro-level cameras don't have built-in flashes so they don't have built-in flash commanders. If you want to trigger flashes remotely, and you don't have a built-in flash commander, you either invest in a dedicated system with a dedicated commander (expensive!) or go the much cheaper route and go for generic triggers and guns. Having the internal flash act as a built-in flash commander is not a deal maker. For many beginners, it's going to end up a pointless feature they never get around to using.

That's a whole other topic. Not going to get into this. It's hard enough keeping up with the attacks around here.

Features like in-body stabilisation and articulated LCDs… some of us actually avoid that stuff.

We know they weaken the camera in the sense that these are things that are prone to break and break down.

Sony offers 2 years standard warranty. Granted, there will be limitations to that warranty.

For some of us, the priority is a good sturdy camera. Some of us aren't interested in video functions at all.

The Sony is a good sturdy camera. Just don't flip out the screen then. You can reverse it so that it is just like a static screen.

Manufacturers whack these features in to impress. Bombard beginners with a hefty feature list most of which they don't understand.

Pressing the video record button is not very difficult to understand and it produces a nice video. It's impressive that it autofocus nicely and that it delivers the convenience of a camcorder. And that's what many consumers want. Combining a photo camera with a video camera. Sony right now, is the only one that does a good job at this. Has been for at least 2 years. (going 3 now?)

People come to this forum for advice because they get confused.

So, what's wrong with pointing out that a Sony gives you more for your money?

If the OP said he wants a Canon 60D well, that's good enough. He has made a decision. Hooray! He actually knows what he wants. And it's a good camera. We're not going to confuse him now by offering him a whole lot of other options. If we're Nikon shooters, as some of us are, we're not going to try to talk him into a Nikon.

Yes you are!

'Cos in the end, a camera is a camera is a camera.

No it isn't! It is heavily heavily biased here! Every argument in favor of a Sony is immediately put down here. Attacks left and right. Belittling. Insulting. Ridiculing. That's the response here. Why? Because their camera isn't praised the most.

Forget all the fancy features and functions and the exhaustive tests and arguments and the petty rivalries.

See? You're doing it again!

It's just a camera.

With features that allows people do things that they otherwise can't.

And those of us who are more experienced are a little more sceptical of the sales pitches these days. First get a camera… and in the end it doesn't really matter what you get and then get down to the real work of learning how to take photographs because that's what it's really all about.

This is a beginner's forum. Treat it as such then. Stop with the entitlement for your non-Sony brand.

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123Mike
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Re: Sony provides so much more!
In reply to roby17269, Apr 16, 2013

roby17269 wrote:

123Mike wrote:

  • 10 fps burst rate, no compromises
  • 12 fps burst rate, cropped
  • Faster AF
  • 1080/60p/30p/24p video
  • Fast continuous AF during video
  • Stereo Mic
  • HDR
  • In camera panoramas stitching
  • Access to AF lenses from 80s (Minolta mostly)
  • Faster AF
  • Live view always available with no compromises
  • Excellent low light abilities
  • In camera stabilization
  • Focus peaking
  • Kelvin WB Adjustment
  • Sweep Panorama
  • Lens Correction for CAs, Distortion, Vignetting
  • 15 Point AF
  • Wireles Flash Commander
  • High Speed Flash Snyc
  • Camera body based stabilization
  • 100%/1.04x EVF

Hopefully you were not hoping to surprise me with a copy & paste of a partially accurate list?

Can you meet those features with a non-Sony brand?

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123Mike
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Re: Sony provides so much more! Really?
In reply to Limburger, Apr 16, 2013

Limburger wrote:

123Mike wrote:

8fps 19 point x-type AF so by now you know what I shoot with.

The Sony A57 was on sale for $399 the other day. Still deals on below $500 I think. How much does your's cost?

Besides. The A57 has 8 fps without any compromises as well. Plus the option to do 10 and 12 fps with manageable compromises. Still better.

And don't think that non-cross is not capable of capturing focus!

Plus AF during video.

Plus 60p video in full HD.

go through the list again. Do you think it should not be considered for new camera buyers?

If you're happy with a kitlens and the features, go for it.

Kit-lens? Huh? It's an exchangeable lens camera! You don't need a kit lens to get any special features! The stabilization is in the body for one! You don't need any special in-lens motorized focusing mechanism. Some lenses do do that, and there are various versions of such a mechanism, but the body screw motor feeds the lens focusing power just as well. And you lose no features. My favorite lens right now is the Tamron 17-50 f2.8. Much nicer than the kit. I think others could enjoy this combination as well.

My camera is about 3x more expensive, not without a reason.

Do you recommend it for new camera buyers? People looking to get into the hobby? Would a Sony not be a good choice for them?

But the expense you can save on lenses as the 70-200 for example.

As a system Sony is a consumer brand, no more no less.

Sony has professional G lenses in their line up. Downplaying them as if they're inferior is only lying. There are also Tamron SP lenses, Sigma has some very high grade lenses (I'm hearing the best lens *PERIOD* is a Sigma lens now, a 35mm fix one I think - according to dxo. Can't 100% remember the details, look it up) - available for Sony as well. There a Minolta APO lenses. Plus there are some surprise lenses that a good and cheap and can definitely compete with the lenses that you feel really good about.

So, what do you think about the Sony A99. A useless Barbie like toy I'm sure?\

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bugzie
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Re: Really?
In reply to 123Mike, Apr 16, 2013

Nonsense! You don't know what I know and what I don't know. I'm literally surrounded by a bunch of arrogant self entitled childish people around here. But you know what? I was warned about that. The other day I was at a camera store, and brought up the subject of online forums and DPR, and pretty much the whole store laughed. The utter shredding and ripping people apart here is just absurd. Insults flying on every single possible occasion. And where does it happen the most? In specific forums like this, where aggressive people like just can't wait to pounce on others. Trying to make yourself look big by trying to put the other guy down.

The reason why people deride DPR is it's full of "gear heads" where the type of camera you have and your knowledge of the technology is more important than your ability to take photographs. Where people take endless test photographs of brick walls to test the sharpness of their lenses when they can't take a decent photograph to save themselves. Where people pimp a certain brand or camera no matter what the original post asks. Where people argue to the death about the merits of their specific brand or camera. Where people brag about their incredible gear instead of getting out and using it. In short, where the gear is more important than the photography. And threads like this are symptomatic of the problem. You're not the only person who's participating in this nonsense. Sorry Craig, but you do not need a kick-ass 500mm lens to take a lovely photograph of your grandchild. You can take lovely photographs of your grandchildren with a bog-standard kit lens. The most important ingredient is put some heart in your photography. I'm not saying the photographs of grandchildren are rubbish. They're great. And you obviously love them and have a rapport with them. That's what really counts.

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123Mike
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Re: Sony provides so much more! Really?
In reply to Bjorn_L, Apr 16, 2013

Bjorn_L wrote:

Limburger wrote:

123Mike wrote:

cherry picking one thing and using that to dismiss everything. A very weak argument.

Besides, it's incorrect. You can perfectly well track 10 and 12 fps shooting. It's just different. You can tune into it, you really can. I can. Perhaps you can too. Not every is handy though.

But, for those that aren't that handy, they could choose 8 fps where all those downsides go away.

So, how many fps do you have?

8fps 19 point x-type AF so by now you know what I shoot with.

You left off the key feature of the 7d's AFS system.  Which is that is one of the fastest most accurate AF systems in a crop body particularly with a f/2.8 lens which can keep up with it.

You have to realize that the basis of my arguments were features that I know that the Sony has that the others do not have. My arguments were never specifically targeted at putting down other cameras. For instance, I know that the Sony does 60p video. That's really great! It means smooth video! It's fantastic for all around family use. It's an amazing way to capture the family in full smooth motion. I don't specifically say that the Canon is a piece of crap. But that's what others have been doing. I'm getting arguments like "amateur" and "toy" and "gimmick" and "impressing/fooling others" and I forget what else.

If the 7D has something in the AF system that makes it really good, that's not a bad thing in my eyes. It is a good thing! What irks me is that people THINK what I'm all about, how I think. It is GOOD to see competition. If the AF system is faster, then when someone asks about a solution requiring super fast action, then I'd point out that whatever-other system as an option! (is the AF of the 7D faster than the A57 btw? Have you seen comparisons?)

But end of day, when someone wants an all around well rounded camera that can work really well for them, then I point out the A57 because I *know* it is a very good product! Very formidable that surely hold up against the competition!

My camera also does 8fps, but after using it for a while I noticed that with a stellar AF and a fast accurate lens I could drop it down to 5.5 and get just as high a keeper rate.

Is that because of the mirror moving action causing vibration? There are less moving parts in the Sony and there is less vibration.

Handy if you are shooting an entire tournament or a all day track and field meet.  I only want to sort through so many photos at the end.

Now that sucks, I know. Do you know of any apps that will assist with picking the good ones?

Accuracy, speed, reliability, ability to follow movement are what matter more to AF and your 7d's only APS-C "competition" for this is the d300s and d7000/d7100..

The Sony is too! For sure it is! It does object tracking (did I leave this out of the list?). I don't know if the other cameras have object tracking, but what the Sony does, is you press the object tracking button, You then center on an object you wish to track. Press the button again, and tracking begins. As long as the camera can see the object at all times, it continues to track it. From that point you can shoot away without having to worry about moving the focusing mode or point(s). I find it works pretty well. This works for stills and video. The speed at which it focuses is very fast. Pretty much instant, and only limited how fast the lens' focus can move. Some lenses have a lens based focus motor and focus *really* fast. Surprisingly, some body motor based screw focus lenses focus fast as well, and some are slow. Focusing is almost always direct and without hunting. The camera right away knows exactly how much to move the focus. It's not based on guessing or correcting/hunting. Of course this could screw up in very low light conditions, at which point it can go all over the place. But most of the time - it's *fast*. Very fast. I can't see how it's going to work any faster! How? More powerful focus motor perhaps? Certainly the focus system itself isn't going to become a heck of a whole lot better than what the Sony already offers. Or is some sort of specialized object tracking features that you're talking about?

opinions vary where they rank but I think everyone with a reasonable amount of experience would at least agree that those criteria are what really separate those cameras from the herd.

Based on all the arguments made here, I seriously doubt if any of your ever took the Sony serious or that you actually went to take a serious look. It's as if you all dismissed the camera before hand.

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123Mike
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Re: Really?
In reply to bugzie, Apr 16, 2013

bugzie wrote:

Nonsense! You don't know what I know and what I don't know. I'm literally surrounded by a bunch of arrogant self entitled childish people around here. But you know what? I was warned about that. The other day I was at a camera store, and brought up the subject of online forums and DPR, and pretty much the whole store laughed. The utter shredding and ripping people apart here is just absurd. Insults flying on every single possible occasion. And where does it happen the most? In specific forums like this, where aggressive people like just can't wait to pounce on others. Trying to make yourself look big by trying to put the other guy down.

The reason why people deride DPR is it's full of "gear heads" where the type of camera you have and your knowledge of the technology is more important than your ability to take photographs.

I have great respect for the artistic aspect of photography, and I'm working hard to learn to understand what makes a photo interesting. I've been working on that for quite a while now. It's not easy, because my brain is not wired like an artist. I bought a book called "The Photographer's Eye" from Michael Freeman. What little I knew about composition, I'm trying to bring to the next level.

But wait. Now we're talking about photography... hmmm, wasn't this all about bashing the Sony guy?

Where people take endless test photographs of brick walls to test the sharpness of their lenses when they can't take a decent photograph to save themselves. Where people pimp a certain brand or camera no matter what the original post asks. Where people argue to the death about the merits of their specific brand or camera. Where people brag about their incredible gear instead of getting out and using it. In short, where the gear is more important than the photography. And threads like this are symptomatic of the problem. You're not the only person who's participating in this nonsense. Sorry Craig, but you do not need a kick-ass 500mm lens to take a lovely photograph of your grandchild. You can take lovely photographs of your grandchildren with a bog-standard kit lens. The most important ingredient is put some heart in your photography. I'm not saying the photographs of grandchildren are rubbish. They're great. And you obviously love them and have a rapport with them. That's what really counts.

And I wanted to help arm a new comer with a camera that I know delivers. But I hear you about the things detracting away from the photography aspect.

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Leonard Migliore
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Takes a licking and keeps on ticking
In reply to 123Mike, Apr 16, 2013

123Mike wrote:

Nonsense! You don't know what I know and what I don't know.

I know you don't know what a tilt-shift lens is. You've demonstrated that here.

I know you don't know what a good feature set for action photography is.

I know you don't know how to stop beating a dead horse.

I'm literally surrounded by a bunch of arrogant self entitled childish people around here.

I ain't seen but one and it seems to be you.

But you know what? I was warned about that. The other day I was at a camera store, and brought up the subject of online forums and DPR, and pretty much the whole store laughed. The utter shredding and ripping people apart here is just absurd. Insults flying on every single possible occasion. And where does it happen the most? In specific forums like this, where aggressive people like just can't wait to pounce on others. Trying to make yourself look big by trying to put the other guy down.

From my observations of this thread, you are by far the most aggressive and strident poster, pushing your Sony feature list as a one-size fits all solution for all photographers. No matter how hard you jump up and down, you will fail to convince anyone of your position because of your obvious bias and ignorance.

You have been extremely adversarial towards several reasonable and experienced members of this forum who are not given to irrational attacks. You have responded to their comments with increasingly shrill rationalizations and seem to be inventing a competition between cameras when no such thing exists.

I am sure that you will continue in this direction because you know no other course of action, even though it is totally unproductive.

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Leonard Migliore

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123Mike
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Re: About to Buy -- What do you think ?
In reply to Guidenet, Apr 16, 2013

Those are absolutely fabulous shots! I take oodles of photos of my kids as well. I also look at how others manage to make photos interesting, and I'm trying hard to get my mind to wrap around the artistic aspect. I think I'm trying to calculate things too much. An artist just clues into the scene the moment he sees it. Myself, I have to go, "hmmm, I've seen this sort of scene before. If you have this branch sticking out this way, and that thing over there in the corner - connect the dots, make it go from corner to corner..." stuff like that. Here's an example: http://www.julievincentphotography.com/  These guys take amazing photos. You'd think I can go around the house and capture the same quality without cheating....

Anyway. Why the heck all the arguing again. Oh yes, I pointed out features I thought would be good for a new buyer... And why was this wrong again?

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123Mike
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Re: Takes a licking and keeps on ticking
In reply to Leonard Migliore, Apr 16, 2013

Leonard Migliore wrote:

123Mike wrote:

Nonsense! You don't know what I know and what I don't know.

I know you don't know what a tilt-shift lens is. You've demonstrated that here.

I have seen tilt lenses before. I have no owned one. Recently there was a bit on it on Digital Rev (I know I know, silly guy) getting someone to exploit a lensbaby tilt lens. So, I did now know that specifically on Canon a TS lens meant tilt shift. So?

I know you don't know what a good feature set for action photography is.

Enlighten me. May I know, maybe I don't. But what do you accomplish by trying to put me down? Is that what makes you feel good, or you have nothing else to go on?

I know you don't know how to stop beating a dead horse.

I'm literally surrounded by a bunch of arrogant self entitled childish people around here.

I ain't seen but one and it seems to be you.

I pointed out unique features. This was answers by a vicious gang style attack campaign.

But you know what? I was warned about that. The other day I was at a camera store, and brought up the subject of online forums and DPR, and pretty much the whole store laughed. The utter shredding and ripping people apart here is just absurd. Insults flying on every single possible occasion. And where does it happen the most? In specific forums like this, where aggressive people like just can't wait to pounce on others. Trying to make yourself look big by trying to put the other guy down.

From my observations of this thread, you are by far the most aggressive and strident poster, pushing your Sony feature list as a one-size fits all solution for all photographers. No matter how hard you jump up and down, you will fail to convince anyone of your position because of your obvious bias and ignorance.

I'm not going to convince you of anything, because you have already invested in another camera brand, and you won't tolerate having to admit that a feature rich camera makes for a very good choice to a new buyer.

You have been extremely adversarial towards several reasonable and experienced members of this forum who are not given to irrational attacks.

That's hypocrisy. I point out features, which is answered by ganging up, ridiculing, putting down, downplaying, belittling, and all the rest of it. I'm not phased in the slightest bit. I know I'm not actually nasty.

You have responded to their comments with increasingly shrill rationalizations and seem to be inventing a competition between cameras when no such thing exists.

I have been continually insulted.

I am sure that you will continue in this direction because you know no other course of action, even though it is totally unproductive.

I didn't feel like getting a bunch of arrogant self entitled rude insulting individuals walk all over me.

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Leonard Migliore
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These boots are made for walkin'
In reply to 123Mike, Apr 16, 2013

123Mike wrote:

I didn't feel like getting a bunch of arrogant self entitled rude insulting individuals walk all over me.

Then why did you invite it?

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Leonard Migliore

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Guidenet
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In reply to bugzie, Apr 16, 2013

bugzie wrote:

Sorry Craig, but you do not need a kick-ass 500mm lens to take a lovely photograph of your grandchild. You can take lovely photographs of your grandchildren with a bog-standard kit lens. The most important ingredient is put some heart in your photography. I'm not saying the photographs of grandchildren are rubbish. They're great. And you obviously love them and have a rapport with them. That's what really counts.

Bugzie, I'm not sure if you read what accompanied that shot at 500mm. I said I was having fun and 500 was overkill. You don't need it for that much compression, obviously. And certainly a kit lens can take portraits. That shot was one off.

But, other lenses create some different looks with regards to portraits. I've found outside beach and park type scenes as backgrounds can really benefit from using long glass for portraiture. I'm not alone either. There are a lot of other commercial portrait photographers going for 150-300mm glass for portraits. Nikon and Canon's 200 f/2 are superb. Both their 300 f/2.8s are becoming rather common for this purpose. A friend of mine just did an entire Panama Jack gig mostly using a 400 f/2.8 on the women models. It can be very flattering.

Using long glass can be a little harder, as I mentioned, because of the need to direct lighting changes. It can take some walking back and forth to communicate the need to change a screen or flag location. Moving a reflector or light can require closer communication with the lighting people, but it can be quite worth while.

Understand though, long glass portraiture is specialized and good for a particular look. As I menitioned, my goto glass at work is my 85 f/1.4G as well as an old 105 f/2.5 AI I've had since new.

Take care.

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bugzie
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Re: Takes a licking and keeps on ticking
In reply to 123Mike, Apr 16, 2013

Mike, if a person posts a "What camera should I buy?" post, then it's time to say "What about a Sony?" Not a list of features straight off the glossy brochure but some real-life reasons why you particularly like about your Sony and how it's contributed to your development as a photographer. What features you've found you've used and you've found useful. You've brought up a few points in your discussions… no mirror slap. Faster fps. You get an EVF while you also keep the faster-focusing phase detection with Sony's SLT technology. And this means… in real world shooting… in your experience… what? You want to argue the technical merits of your list of features with me. I didn't say my iPhone 5 was better than your Sony. I said it had that in-camera panorama stitching feature and it was dinky. What I was getting at is some of these features might not impress some people. There's no point singing the praises of the video frame rates if I'm not interested in video. The point of helping people is finding out what they need and what they want. They don't want a sales pitch. And people have pointed out to you that the fps is good but the focus tracking isn't up to scratch. No point having 10fps if most of them aren't in focus! They're saying don't look at the raw on-paper specs. How good is the focus tracking and how good is the buffer? And that's not attacking your camera or you. If you're into sports photography, this camera might not be a good choice. And you should listen to this stuff. You might learn something. Have you tried any action shots?

You've come along here totally sold on your camera. And you want to proselytise it at any opportunity. You want to destroy the Canikon hegemony. And everybody groans… here comes the Sony fanboy. Doesn't matter what the OP says, he's going to pimp his Sony. There's nothing wrong with pointing out the advantages and unique features of your Sony but when people point out the shortcomings, don't over-react. Especially when you have no actual experience with some of the features. Because what this forum is about is not arguing which camera is best but giving folks good advice based on personal experience.

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123Mike
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Re: Takes a licking and keeps on ticking
In reply to bugzie, Apr 16, 2013

Mike, if a person posts a "What camera should I buy?" post, then it's time to say "What about a Sony?"

A person announced he wanted to enter the digital slr world. I thought to throw in the Sony as an option. Very appropriate.

Not a list of features straight off the glossy brochure but some real-life reasons why you particularly like about your Sony and how it's contributed to your development as a photographer.

The Sony has contributed to being able to shoot decent video that I would otherwise not have been able to. I have been able to exploit the high burst rate to capture more shots in difficult situations providing a higher number of successful shots.

What features you've found you've used and you've found useful.

All of them. Just an overall stronger more feature rich tool. Allowing options I would otherwise not have.

You've brought up a few points in your discussions… no mirror slap. Faster fps. You get an EVF while you also keep the faster-focusing phase detection with Sony's SLT technology.

Good things, that others have danced around, avoiding.

And this means… in real world shooting… in your experience… what?

Better results.

You want to argue the technical merits of your list of features with me. I didn't say my iPhone 5 was better than your Sony.

I guess that was you. You gave the impression that the Sony's panorama feature is stupid, because your silly iPhone does it too. It's all part of the ongoing downplaying and ridiculing attempts.

I said it had that in-camera panorama stitching feature and it was dinky. What I was getting at is some of these features might not impress some people.

And they ARE impressive and they ARE good to have. 12 fps is nice to have!

There's no point singing the praises of the video frame rates if I'm not interested in video.

But it isn't about you. Others DO care about good video.

The point of helping people is finding out what they need and what they want.

I can't quizz everyone. I say to a new comer, pick the Sony. Because you get everything the next camera offers, plus you get more, and you pay less. What's there not to like?

They don't want a sales pitch. And people have pointed out to you that the fps is good but the focus tracking isn't up to scratch.

Where did that come from? Focus tracking not up to scratch? That's news to me! I'm not seeing anything indicating focus tracking being bad! Where did this come from?

No point having 10fps if most of them aren't in focus!

But most of them ARE in focus! Seriously, where do get this crap from anyway? Most of them are not in focus? Good grief. Fantasy land galore here! YES most of them are in focus! Very much so! I've used it, and it works perfectly well. "most of them not in focus".... fairy tales.... beliefs. Nonsense.

They're saying don't look at the raw on-paper specs.

Who is "they" ? You "buddies" in Canikon forums?

How good is the focus tracking and how good is the buffer?

As much as you want to find something wrong with it, there is nothing wrong with it.

And that's not attacking your camera or you.

Yes you are. You're desperately seeking weaknesses to make yourself feel better. It isn't working.

If you're into sports photography, this camera might not be a good choice.

Except, it IS a good choice for sports photography.

And you should listen to this stuff. You might learn something.

Listen to what? People like you desperate making up crap?

Have you tried any action shots?

Do you have kids running around? Mine move a lot!

You've come along here totally sold on your camera.

Because it's good, and I want others to enjoy it too.

And you want to proselytise it at any opportunity.

You and your friends want to put it down at any opportunity.

You want to destroy the Canikon hegemony.

You want to put the Sony brand where you think it belongs. Well, you're wrong. Sony is here, and it's here to stay. It's no less of a player than a Nikon or Canon.

And everybody groans… here comes the Sony fanboy.

I like my Sony, and? You like your Nikon, or is it Canon?

Doesn't matter what the OP says, he's going to pimp his Sony. There's nothing wrong with pointing out the advantages and unique features of your Sony

But you guys ARE treating me as if it's wrong pointing out its advantages.

but when people point out the shortcomings, don't over-react.

What shortcomings? It's all been clutching at straws so far.

Especially when you have no actual experience with some of the features.

Arrogant, just like the others. Assuming I know less. Putting me down to lift yourself up. It's a common trait here.

Because what this forum is about is not arguing which camera is best

You guys have been attacking at every possible turn in every which way possible. Yes, you're very must trying to argue which camera is best. You're arguing that the Sony is not so good, so that your camera starts to look better.

but giving folks good advice based on personal experience.

My advice was fine. Many features allowing you to do things you can't otherwise.

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123Mike
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Re: These boots are made for walkin'
In reply to Leonard Migliore, Apr 16, 2013

I didn't feel like getting a bunch of arrogant self entitled rude insulting individuals walk all over me.

Then why did you invite it?

I wasn't the one that started it. It was others that immediately started insulting after I merely pointed out a list of features.

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Hank3152
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Hope this thread hits 150 soon.....
In reply to kclarke, Apr 16, 2013

.....so it disappears

Why is everyone patronizing this guy? Give it up and let it go.........I've read enough.......he's obviously a Sony fanatic who's locked on a brand regardless of what sense anybody displays........and he'll post the same list of features for the 14th time...........

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roby17269
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Re: Sony provides so much more!
In reply to 123Mike, Apr 16, 2013

123Mike wrote:

roby17269 wrote:

123Mike wrote:

  • 10 fps burst rate, no compromises
  • 12 fps burst rate, cropped
  • Faster AF
  • 1080/60p/30p/24p video
  • Fast continuous AF during video
  • Stereo Mic
  • HDR
  • In camera panoramas stitching
  • Access to AF lenses from 80s (Minolta mostly)
  • Faster AF
  • Live view always available with no compromises
  • Excellent low light abilities
  • In camera stabilization
  • Focus peaking
  • Kelvin WB Adjustment
  • Sweep Panorama
  • Lens Correction for CAs, Distortion, Vignetting
  • 15 Point AF
  • Wireles Flash Commander
  • High Speed Flash Snyc
  • Camera body based stabilization
  • 100%/1.04x EVF

Hopefully you were not hoping to surprise me with a copy & paste of a partially accurate list?

Can you meet those features with a non-Sony brand?

Some yes, some no and the inaccurate ones not for sure, although I personally can meet some with my camera, which is not a competitor

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mike703
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features or fluff?
In reply to 123Mike, Apr 16, 2013

Mike, you need to take a deep breath and lie down.  Leave the forum for a day and get a sense of perspective... Apart from your repeated and hysterical rudeness, you keep harping on about this list of features like it's a holy grail.  Most of what you list below I would regard as an irrelevance (to me), a pointless gimmick, or easily available on other cameras.  For example:  I use a humble Pentax K-01... which cost about half of a Sony A57.

  • 10 fps burst rate, no compromises
  • 12 fps burst rate, cropped
  • Faster AF
  • 1080/60p/30p/24p video
  • Fast continuous AF during video
  • Stereo Mic
  • HDR
  • In camera panoramas stitching
  • Access to AF lenses from 80s (Minolta mostly)
  • Live view always available with no compromises
  • Excellent low light abilities
  • Camera body based stabilization
  • Focus peaking
  • Kelvin WB Adjustment
  • Lens Correction for CAs, Distortion, Vignetting
  • 15 Point AF
  • Wireles Flash Commander
  • High Speed Flash Snyc
  • 100%/1.04x EVF

Burst rate?  Totally irrelevant to me.  I don't 'spray and pray' and don't shoot sports.

Faster AF? - no doubt - but for landscapes / portraits / architecture they usually sit still.  Give me accurate over fast any day.

Video - completely not interested.

HDR - a gimmick.  if you want to do it properly put the camera on a tripod and shoot a series of RAW files at different exposures and do the HDR properly afterwards.

Panorama stitching - another gimmick to impress the credulous.  iPhones do that.  if you want to do it properly, again you need a tripod, take several overlapping stills, and splice later.

I have access to Pentax lenses going back who knows how far.  They are MF but with focus peaking that's fine and they are cheap and optically excellent in many cases.

Live view always available - check!

Excellent low light capabilities - check!

In-body stabilisation, focus peaking - check!

Custom WB... does any half decent camera NOT have that?!

Wireless flash etc... I prefer available light so I don't care.

100% EVF - I find that I prefer to use the screen (I wear rather bulky spectacles which interfere with an OVF / EVF) so wouldn't use an EVF if I had one.

The point is... you keep reciting this cut-and-paste list of features like a talisman to prove desperately that your choice of camera is better than everyone else's needs.  It's like saying (over and over again) 'hey, my car is better than yours cos it's a got a 10-CD autochanger, a spoiler, and a leather-trimmed steering wheel, so there!'  If you are happy with your choice, whoopee, well done.  But your choice is not for me, thanks.

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bugzie
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Re: Hope this thread hits 150 soon.....
In reply to Hank3152, Apr 16, 2013

Hank3152 wrote:

.....so it disappears

Why is everyone patronizing this guy? Give it up and let it go.........I've read enough.......he's obviously a Sony fanatic who's locked on a brand regardless of what sense anybody displays........and he'll post the same list of features for the 14th time...........

Yes, I agree. I've tried reasoning with him but he just picks apart what I say point-by-point and argues with each and every sentence. He's got a massive chip on his shoulder. And a persecution complex.

I give up. It's hopeless. I'm going to get myself a Sony A57. It's got a list of fabulous features. I'm just going to have to learn to love them. I have to. It's the best camera of all time. Resistance is futile.  How could I be so blind. I'm going to love my A57. I'm going to tell everybody how wonderful it is. I'm going to get on a boat and go to the remotest part of the Congo and convert everybody to the A57. I will go and find the burning bush and come down from the mountain with a tablet inscribed with the unique features of A57. It's a gift from God.

It's not just a camera. It's a way of life. You will love it!

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