5D MkIII + 7D?

Started Apr 12, 2013 | Discussions
scottv69
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5D MkIII + 7D?
Apr 12, 2013

I have a 5D MkIII and shoot a lot of football (soccer) with the 70-200 2.8 IS II and 100-400 lenses. I am thinking of adding a 7D to compliment the 5D so I can have both lenses mounted, but want to see what the real-world difference is between 6fps and 8fps?

Am I going to notice any real difference?

Have toyed with the idea of a 1D MkIV but am thinking the 7D would suffice, especially as I have the 5D III for low light.

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John Zeman
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Re: 5D MkIII + 7D?
In reply to scottv69, Apr 12, 2013

Before I got my 5D3 I had a 5D2 and a 7D combination and I loved the extra range the 7D gave me with my long lenses.  It produced great images about 90% of the time but I ended up selling the 7D and replacing it with a 1D Mark IV because I wasn't satisfied with the image quality of the 7D when using ISOs above 1000.
As far as the fps go, I didn't notice a lot of difference between 6 and 8, but then I wasn't shooting exceptionally fast action events with it either.

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Hank3152
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Re: 5D MkIII + 7D?
In reply to scottv69, Apr 13, 2013

There's talk of a 7DII on the horizon as near as late summer/early fall....reportedly having a better sensor, an AF system and ISO performance equal to the 5DIII, and a 10fps frame rate. Might be worth while waiting and perhaps getting either a 1.4xII or 2xIII TC in the meantime. The 2xIII works very well with the 70-200mkII........

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scottv69
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Re: 5D MkIII + 7D?
In reply to Hank3152, Apr 13, 2013

Hank3152 wrote:

There's talk of a 7DII on the horizon as near as late summer/early fall....reportedly having a better sensor, an AF system and ISO performance equal to the 5DIII, and a 10fps frame rate. Might be worth while waiting and perhaps getting either a 1.4xII or 2xIII TC in the meantime. The 2xIII works very well with the 70-200mkII........

Yeah am aware of the 7DII rumours and will definitely be waiting for the 23rd April date as reported on canonrumors.com before doing anything, but if nothing is announced in the next couple of weeks I want to do something. Who knows when the 7DII will come out.

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scottv69
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Re: 5D MkIII + 7D?
In reply to John Zeman, Apr 13, 2013

John Zeman wrote:

Before I got my 5D3 I had a 5D2 and a 7D combination and I loved the extra range the 7D gave me with my long lenses.  It produced great images about 90% of the time but I ended up selling the 7D and replacing it with a 1D Mark IV because I wasn't satisfied with the image quality of the 7D when using ISOs above 1000.
As far as the fps go, I didn't notice a lot of difference between 6 and 8, but then I wasn't shooting exceptionally fast action events with it either.

Have thought about the 1DIV but it is a lot more money than a 7D right now and with the possibility of the 7DII soon I wouldn't want to have dropped that much coin if the 7DII rumours turn out to be true about the focus, sensor and FPS. Can live with APS-C for the second body.

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scottv69
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Re: 5D MkIII + 7D?
In reply to scottv69, Apr 13, 2013

Have had a look on Ebay and for around $650 I can get a lightly used 7D body, which spurred the idea. So does anybody have any comments on the 6fps vs 8fps difference?

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Adam2
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Re: 5D MkIII + 7D?
In reply to scottv69, Apr 13, 2013

Great question!  I've recently retired from the sports business and have sold all of my equipment.  The 5diii is a great all round utility camera and its AF works great for many sports.  You asked a question about frame rate and that is IMHO extremely important depending on the type of sport you are shooting.  We all know the "it" shot when we see it and when you are shooting with a higher frame rate it increases the chances of capturing it.  Frequently, there might be a body part or a shadow, ball, or facial expression in one image that either obstructs or enables the shot.  Ironically, you could increase the frame rate by shooting video and then extracting the perfect frame but assuming that you aren't doing that and getting back to your original question, here are my thoughts.

If you are shooting the 5diii, the 7d's menu's will seem somewhat familiar.  Personally, I didn't like the 7d for reasons of AF inconsistency and IQ.  While the crop factor may or may not be appreciated, the relatively smaller FOV in the viewfinder will not.  Comparatively, it's a bit harder to anticipate the action in a 7d as opposed to the 5diii.  As one person indicated, the 1dmkiv would be a great choice but at around $2600-3000 for a used one, it could be pricey.  Alternatively, consider a 1dmkiii.  A late series one will set you back around $1000-1200 and at 10 fps, it is more than capable.

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Hank3152
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Re: 5D MkIII + 7D?
In reply to scottv69, Apr 13, 2013

scottv69 wrote:

So does anybody have any comments on the 6fps vs 8fps difference?

It may not seem like it but that's a substantial difference when you think of it as a 30% chance of increasing your keeper rate when shooting in continuous high speed.....and depending on the sport even that may not be enough........10fps is almost a sure thing.

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BigSkyKen
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John nailed it!
In reply to John Zeman, Apr 13, 2013

Yes, you will notice the difference between 6 & 8 fps, but you aren't going to likely be satisfied with your keeper rate or IQ. I think you'll find the useful ISO range too limiting, especially considering what you're used to with the 5D3. I recently picked up a used 1D4, and it has gained me 2 stops of ISO, plus more fps. AF tracking is much better, too.

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Freeman-Jo
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Re: John nailed it!
In reply to BigSkyKen, Apr 13, 2013

What about 1D3, if you don't need super high MP, 1D3 offer 10MP at 10fps.  For a used one, the price isn't much higher than 7D.  Also, you have to think about this, the difference between 7D and the 1D series isn't just fps, but also the buffer size.  Both 1D3 and 1D4 would have more buffer thus higher frame count also.  Just a thought.

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scottv69
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Re: John nailed it!
In reply to BigSkyKen, Apr 13, 2013

BigSkyKen wrote:

Yes, you will notice the difference between 6 & 8 fps, but you aren't going to likely be satisfied with your keeper rate or IQ. I think you'll find the useful ISO range too limiting, especially considering what you're used to with the 5D3. I recently picked up a used 1D4, and it has gained me 2 stops of ISO, plus more fps. AF tracking is much better, too.

I guess I have become pretty accustomed to the nice high ISO images from the 5D3 and would definitely feel limited if the real world working range was limited to 1,000ISO. I currently shoot up to 3,200 without even thinking about it and the images clean up nicely in Lightroom.

Plus of course I never really have to think about issues with focus either.

I guess the biggest thing was looking for a second body with higher FPS without spending too much money, but the 1DIII / 1DIV idea is interesting.

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schmegg
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Re: John nailed it!
In reply to Freeman-Jo, Apr 13, 2013

Freeman-Jo wrote:

What about 1D3, if you don't need super high MP, 1D3 offer 10MP at 10fps.  For a used one, the price isn't much higher than 7D.  Also, you have to think about this, the difference between 7D and the 1D series isn't just fps, but also the buffer size.  Both 1D3 and 1D4 would have more buffer thus higher frame count also.  Just a thought.

Actually, the 7D has the same buffer depth as the 1D4, at least when shooting raw (25 images). When shooting JPG's, the 7D's buffer is way ahead of the 1D4, buffering 130 Large Fine JPG's vs the 1D4's 46!

I shoot with both a 5D3 and a 7D and the difference in burst rate and buffer depth is definitely noticeable. Providing the light is OK, then it's a no-brainer to grab the 7D when shooting bursts is paramount.

I find the AF to be better on the 5D3 (of course - it's about as good as it gets), but the 7D is very capable also. I never had any complaints with the 7D before I got the 5D3. I find it's fast, accurate and tracks well (after checking and MFA'ing my lenses where necessary).

In fact, I do pretty much the same thing that the OP is considering. I often use the 7D with the 100-400 mounted and the 5D3 with the 70-200 mounted. Then I can quickly switch when necessary and have everything from 70-640mm covered.

Regarding noise performance, I find the 5D3 has about two stops advantage at image level and around one stop at pixel level in lower light. Everyone has their own tolerance as to how much noise is acceptable, but for me I usually stop at 3200 with the 7D and 12800 with the 5D3. For birds I'd probably go one stop lower on both to keep as much fine feather detail as possible.

Personally, I find the two make quite an effective pair. For a cheap second body to go along with a 5D3, I find the 7D an excellent choice.

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El Wray
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Re: 5D MkIII + 7D?
In reply to scottv69, Apr 13, 2013

I own both the 7D and the 5D mk III. The 6 vs 8 fps is noticeable. But, 6 is acceptable to me. I wouldn't want it any slower.

What I do, is use my 5D mk III for when i shoot indoor sports (volleyball and basketball) since high ISO is paramount to me in that situation.

Then when outdoor sports season starts and I'm shooting track and baseball/softball I switch to my 7D. Outdoors, where I have good light, the 7D's extra "reach" is nice. Switching between the two cameras, the difference in fps is certainly noticeable. But I don't think the 6 fps is too slow.

For me it's a great combination. And I don't find the 6 fps limiting. Would I like 8 fps on the 5D mk III? Sure! But 6 is acceptable.

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riknash
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Re: 5D MkIII + 7D?
In reply to scottv69, Apr 13, 2013

scottv69 wrote:

I have a 5D MkIII and shoot a lot of football (soccer) with the 70-200 2.8 IS II and 100-400 lenses. I am thinking of adding a 7D to compliment the 5D so I can have both lenses mounted, but want to see what the real-world difference is between 6fps and 8fps?

Am I going to notice any real difference?

Have toyed with the idea of a 1D MkIV but am thinking the 7D would suffice, especially as I have the 5D III for low light.

Don't waste your time or money on the 7D unless you just want to simply have fun with it. Yes, the 8fps(two extra frames per second)  is noticeable for anyone who uses the spray-n-pray technique to capture the best moments as I do for wildlife action shots and most certainly can be for action football.  Using Lexar 1000x cards, the 5DIII's 12 frame buffer depth limit is not noticeable for my work as the images are very quickly off-loaded onto the card. The crop sensor may be useful for its extra "reach", but a great working 5DIII will beat the pants off the AF accuracy and low to high ISO exposure settings of the 7D. The 7D will produce noise at base ISO if there is any under exposure you compensate for in post, along with great gobs of noise and banding noise as the ISO is increased as compared to the 5DIII. Basically, any noise you now see on the 5DIII you will see on the 7D at two stops lower. The IQ and colour will also be less satisfying. Why would you really want to lower your standards?

I use both for shooting action wildlife. If you consistently have properly composed and exposed subjects with the 5DIII, it will always produce a much better image than the 7D.  I plan to replace the 7D with a 7DII if Canon ever delivers it to market and if it has the rumored noise and AF improvements.

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schmegg
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Re: 5D MkIII + 7D?
In reply to scottv69, Apr 13, 2013

Here's a random sample of the type of image quality you can expect from the 7D. If it's not up to your standard, then don't bother with it. I find it more than capable in reasonable light myself - everyone has their own take on this I guess.

http://www.flickr.com/groups/7dsportsphotography/pool/

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riknash
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Re: 5D MkIII + 7D?
In reply to schmegg, Apr 13, 2013

schmegg wrote:

Here's a random sample of the type of image quality you can expect from the 7D. If it's not up to your standard, then don't bother with it. I find it more than capable in reasonable light myself - everyone has their own take on this I guess.

http://www.flickr.com/groups/7dsportsphotography/pool/

Here's a random sample of the type of image quality you can expect from.. a Holga. It appears to be more than capable in reasonable light

http://www.flickr.com/groups/83691126@N00/

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schmegg
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Re: 5D MkIII + 7D?
In reply to riknash, Apr 13, 2013

riknash wrote:

schmegg wrote:

Here's a random sample of the type of image quality you can expect from the 7D. If it's not up to your standard, then don't bother with it. I find it more than capable in reasonable light myself - everyone has their own take on this I guess.

http://www.flickr.com/groups/7dsportsphotography/pool/

Here's a random sample of the type of image quality you can expect from.. a Holga. It appears to be more than capable in reasonable light

http://www.flickr.com/groups/83691126@N00/

Sure - use a Holga if you want. Personally, I'd pick a 7D or older 1D as backup to a 5D3 for sports though.

But to each their own. LOL!

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scottv69
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Re: John nailed it!
In reply to schmegg, Apr 13, 2013

schmegg wrote:

[SNIP]

Personally, I find the two make quite an effective pair. For a cheap second body to go along with a 5D3, I find the 7D an excellent choice.

Thanks for taking the time to respond in detail. Much appreciated and backs up what I was thinking.

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scottv69
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Re: 5D MkIII + 7D?
In reply to Adam2, Apr 13, 2013

Adam2 wrote:

[SNIP]

Alternatively, consider a 1dmkiii.  A late series one will set you back around $1000-1200 and at 10 fps, it is more than capable.

Thanks for the feedback. Have shied away from the 1D MkIII due to all of the focus issues and not knowing whether I would get a lemon, but it is an interesting idea at that price point.

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scottv69
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Re: 5D MkIII + 7D?
In reply to El Wray, Apr 13, 2013

El Wray wrote:

I own both the 7D and the 5D mk III. The 6 vs 8 fps is noticeable. But, 6 is acceptable to me. I wouldn't want it any slower.

[SNIP]

For me it's a great combination. And I don't find the 6 fps limiting. Would I like 8 fps on the 5D mk III? Sure! But 6 is acceptable.

More good feedback from somebody who owns both. Thank you.

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