The price of the SD1M is still way too high!

Started Apr 12, 2013 | Discussions
DaSigmaGuy
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The price of the SD1M is still way too high!
Apr 12, 2013

The new Sigma UK site quotes an SRP (Sigma Rip-off Price?) of £1839.99.  WEX photographic is usually the cheapest camera store around but get one on there and you will save yourself a whopping 99p!

Park Cameras appear to be the cheapest at the moment...They are knocking £290 off the SRP...Thats £1549.99, which is still considerably more than the original price that those now infamous Sigma press interviews lead everyone to expect the SD1 would to sell for. ("around the same price as a Canon 7D").

The Canon 7D can now be bought brand-new for just £609 (body only), making the SD1M (body only) nearly £1000 more expensive!!!

The SD1M will have to be well under £1000 before I would consider buying one.

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Lin Evans
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Re: The price of the SD1M is still way too high!
In reply to DaSigmaGuy, Apr 12, 2013

Hi Alf,

But what has the price of the Canon 7D to do with the SD1 Merrill? You can also buy a Nikon D7100 for less than the SD1 M and the D7100 is much more camera (in my opinion) than the Canon 7D. But you still don't have the Foveon Sensor.

It's like saying the price of a Leica is too high. People will pay if they want what that particular camera or brand offers that the competition doesn't. Everyone would purchase a Rolls if they were available for the priced of a Yugo, but they are not.

Best regards,

Lin

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atom14
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But you are right!
In reply to DaSigmaGuy, Apr 12, 2013

DaSigmaGuy wrote:

The new Sigma UK site quotes an SRP (Sigma Rip-off Price?) of £1839.99.  WEX photographic is usually the cheapest camera store around but get one on there and you will save yourself a whopping 99p!

Park Cameras appear to be the cheapest at the moment...They are knocking £290 off the SRP...Thats £1549.99, which is still considerably more than the original price that those now infamous Sigma press interviews lead everyone to expect the SD1 would to sell for. ("around the same price as a Canon 7D").

The Canon 7D can now be bought brand-new for just £609 (body only), making the SD1M (body only) nearly £1000 more expensive!!!

The SD1M will have to be well under £1000 before I would consider buying one.

Even here, where we pay $A2000, it translates to (well, let's be practical and say a $A1 = 65p), GBP 1196.

Don't know why you guys have to pay a premium? That's usually reserved for us.

atom14.

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Dovey
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Re: But you are right!
In reply to atom14, Apr 12, 2013

The price in Australia is $1780 with a further $500 cashback, meaning a price of 874 pounds. What is going on? It was the case that it was always far more expensive to buy cameras here

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SigmaChrome
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Re: But you are right!
In reply to Dovey, Apr 12, 2013

It's actually $1789 with a $300 cashback offer = $1489.

DP1M and DP2M = $798. I paid $950 for a DP2M back in December and just got a DP3M for $798 and a couple of freebees (lenshood and free shipping).

Dovey wrote:

The price in Australia is $1780 with a further $500 cashback, meaning a price of 874 pounds. What is going on? It was the case that it was always far more expensive to buy cameras here

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motomanDK
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Re: But you are right!
In reply to SigmaChrome, Apr 12, 2013

Price in Germany is 1700€ = about 2000us$

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AdamT
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Re: The price of the SD1M is still way too high!
In reply to DaSigmaGuy, Apr 12, 2013

The Canon 7D can now be bought brand-new for just £609 (body only), making the SD1M (body only) nearly £1000 more expensive!!!

The 7D is also horribly out of date and so long due for replacement its painful so not an ideal comparison - the real point is what else used or new can be bought for the price of the SD1M such as Canon and Nikon fullframers (outdated ones or otherwise) . Thinking specifically the 6D and D600

I guess Sigma never cared a jot if they sold a single SD1 unit , the lenses are making them money and for most people (those who value Autofocus, auto aperture etc) the DP series is and always was a better bet , the glass difference being the point here .

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Roland Karlsson
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Re: The price of the SD1M is still way too high!
In reply to DaSigmaGuy, Apr 12, 2013

I agree with you that the SD1M is way to expensive. And I have no plans to buy it. Its a quite plain camera with an exclusive sensor with an odd ball lens mount. That Sigma sells the DP cameras (with the same exclusive sensor) for half the price speaks volumes about the overpricing of SD1M.

If the SD1M at least have had a decent mount, like Canon, Nikon Sony or Pentax, then at least some people would have found it intriguing to get one.

Just so you dont get me wrong. It is of course up to Sigma to choose mount, price and design of the camera. Then, its up to the market to decide if it likes the choices or not.

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DMillier
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Re: The price of the SD1M is still way too high!
In reply to Lin Evans, Apr 12, 2013

Why would anyone want a Rolls! A mini cooper maybe, but for me the Golf is the best car I've driven.

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photon flux
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Re: Sigma cashback
In reply to motomanDK, Apr 12, 2013

motomanDK wrote:

Price in Germany is 1700€ = about 2000us$

Until 02 June 2013, Sigma Germany offers 400€ cashback for the SD1M if you own any other Sigma digital camera (no matter how old) what reduces the price to 1300€.

Cashback for DPxM is up to 240€ at the moment. So you can purchase a DP3M for approx. 600€.

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DaSigmaGuy
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Re: But you are right!
In reply to Dovey, Apr 12, 2013

The price in Australia is $1780 with a further $500 cashback, meaning a price of 874 pounds. What is going on? It was the case that it was always far more expensive to buy cameras here

Hmmm....sounds like your local retailers are simply having a firesale so they dont get stuck with expensive stock that they might never be able to sell...it wouldn't be the first time thats happened with a sigma camera

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jrdigitalart
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I've gotta correct you there, Alf . . .
In reply to DaSigmaGuy, Apr 12, 2013

DaSigmaGuy wrote:

The price in Australia is $1780 with a further $500 cashback, meaning a price of 874 pounds. What is going on? It was the case that it was always far more expensive to buy cameras here

Hmmm....sounds like your local retailers are simply having a firesale so they dont get stuck with expensive stock that they might never be able to sell...it wouldn't be the first time thats happened with a sigma camera

Sigma cameras are not being sold retail here, mate. The importer, CR Kennedy, is the only outlet these days, selling direct to the public.

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victorgv
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Re: The price of the SD1M is still way too high!
In reply to Roland Karlsson, Apr 12, 2013

Roland Karlsson wrote:

................................................

If the SD1M at least have had a decent mount, like Canon, Nikon Sony or Pentax, then at least some people would have found it intriguing to get one.

Do you mean it is technically inferior or small market share?

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DMillier
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Re: The price of the SD1M is still way too high!
In reply to victorgv, Apr 12, 2013

I guess the argument is that someone who has a large commitment to one of the major systems might be prepared to try a SD1m if they could use it with the lenses from their system but would be most unlikely to purchase a body and a set of SA lenses just to experiment.

I think the problem is presumably Sigma want people to buy only Sigma lenses and to develop their system as a serious contender.  Using other mounts would enable people not to buy Sigma lenses and wouldn't do much to establish Sigma and a propriatary camera system maker.   However, without doing something to kickstart sales of the SLRs, they seem unlikely to meet their goals.

A compromise tactic might be to try and raise the profle of their products by offering SLRs in a wide range of mount. If they manage to get their cameras into the hands of celebrity pros as an adjunct to their main systems and they get a lot of positive press out of it, maybe then they could close the system down to the SA mount.  I think hasselblad did something similar with their digital backs - first get people using them,then gradually restrict the system to all propriatary products. Don't know if that worked for them.

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Roland Karlsson
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Re: The price of the SD1M is still way too high!
In reply to victorgv, Apr 12, 2013

victorgv wrote:

Roland Karlsson wrote:

................................................

If the SD1M at least have had a decent mount, like Canon, Nikon Sony or Pentax, then at least some people would have found it intriguing to get one.

Do you mean it is technically inferior or small market share?

There is nothing technically inferior with the SA mount as far as I know.

David Millier explained it nicely.

Its all about finding the buyers.

Not many have SA lenses. Not many have heard about Sigma cameras. Not many pay $1500 for a camera body. Almost no one pays $1500 for a camera body if they cannot find a very good reason to do so.

Some few wants a 16 MP Foveon SLR camera. Some of those have found enough motivation for getting the SD1M.

If the SD1M could be possible to get in a more mainstream lens mount, then the potential sales of it will probably go up substantially.

If the SD1M was sold at e.g. $800, then the sales would also go up substantially.

If you combine the two above, I assume the SD1M could even be a good seller.

All guesses of course.

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Lin Evans
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Re: The price of the SD1M is still way too high!
In reply to DMillier, Apr 12, 2013

DMillier wrote:

Why would anyone want a Rolls! A mini cooper maybe, but for me the Golf is the best car I've driven.

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LOL - have you driven a Rolls? Incredible. There were some low mileage fairly late models for sale here in the US a year or so ago for absolutely chump change. The problem is that even if they need a brake job, it would cost half a year's income for me to have it done. Maintenance costs were way above what the ordinary person could afford and were probably why they were so cheap. Those with the income to afford them would only purchase new and those who could only afford used couldn't pay for upkeep unless they were in the automotive business as a mechanic, etc.

Best regards,

Lin

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mike earussi
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Re: The price of the SD1M is still way too high!
In reply to Roland Karlsson, Apr 12, 2013

Because of all its body and processing limitations Sigma will always be a niche player and so charges accordingly--they're the only Foveon "game in town," so if you really want it you have to pay for it. Leica is also way too high but some people will still pay it anyway.

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DMillier
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Re: The price of the SD1M is still way too high!
In reply to mike earussi, Apr 12, 2013

But you know with Leica that you are buying a premium product and a "name" and that all those lovely expensive Leica lenses you will probably be able to sell for more than you paid for them.

Sigma don't have that clout.

The more I think about it, the idea of releasing non SA mount variants seems an interesting thought.  It addresses the problem Roland mentions - except amongst a tiny enthusiast minority no one is interested in investing in a Sigma system.

They have no presence or profile or brand recognition and Foveon remains a curiosity. It isn't easy to topple the big boys. Even Sony have struggled to break into the big time despite having the Minolta legacy to kick start their bid and pouring money into the attemtp.  Opening up the mount might spoil the immediate prospects of Sigma as a "system" but anythng that gets the cameras into the hands of influential pros should help raise the awareness and presence of Foveon amongst more photographers. Surely that would be a step in the right direction?

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DMillier
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Re: The price of the SD1M is still way too high!
In reply to Lin Evans, Apr 12, 2013

I appreciate Americans have a different concept of what makes a nice car to Europeans but I detest any cars bigger than a Golf.  I had a VW Passat as a courtesy car for a couple of weeks recently while I was having the annual rear end replacement my car seems to attract ("oops sorry mate, foot slipped off the clutch").  I hated it. Huge bus of a car. I know you might consider cars like Passats and Mondeos to be small but I consider then horribly huge and stodgy drives.

My favourite cars are what we call Superminis here (small hatchbacks) eg Ford Fiesta, VW Polo, Fiat Punto, Renault Clio, Vauxhall/Opel Corsa, Nissen Micra, Toyota Yaris.... Haven't seen many cars of this size in my three trips to N America. The nearest equivalent I remember was a Geo Metro or something similar.

Actually the most fun car I've driven now sadly departed to the rustbed in the sky was my 1987 Ford Fiesta XR2 - especially after I had the suspension uprated so it was scraping along  the road.  It didn't have the power of my current Golf but it was incredibly nimble and responsive and made driving fun. A former colleague of mine used to joke about his TVR sports car that not only could you tell when you ran over a coin but you could tell whether it was heads or tails. My XR2 was like that.

Big cars like Rolls and SUVs and RVs are just railway trains transported to the road. Fine comfortable and quiet for passengers on a long motorway cruise but as nimble as a supertanker on a twisty country lane. Not my cup of tea. If I was given a Rolls, I'd sell it without even sitting in the driver's seat. If my dad were stil capable of driving safely, he'd like one though...

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mike earussi
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Re: The price of the SD1M is still way too high!
In reply to DMillier, Apr 12, 2013

DMillier wrote:

But you know with Leica that you are buying a premium product and a "name" and that all those lovely expensive Leica lenses you will probably be able to sell for more than you paid for them.

Sigma don't have that clout.

The more I think about it, the idea of releasing non SA mount variants seems an interesting thought.  It addresses the problem Roland mentions - except amongst a tiny enthusiast minority no one is interested in investing in a Sigma system.

They have no presence or profile or brand recognition and Foveon remains a curiosity. It isn't easy to topple the big boys. Even Sony have struggled to break into the big time despite having the Minolta legacy to kick start their bid and pouring money into the attemtp.  Opening up the mount might spoil the immediate prospects of Sigma as a "system" but anythng that gets the cameras into the hands of influential pros should help raise the awareness and presence of Foveon amongst more photographers. Surely that would be a step in the right direction?

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Won't do much for their ego, though, which, unfortunately, I think plays a large part in the in decision.

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