How good is the X100S?

Started Apr 11, 2013 | Discussions
sgoldswo
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How good is the X100S?
Apr 11, 2013
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Joel Stern
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Re: How good is the X100S?
In reply to sgoldswo, Apr 11, 2013

So your question is rhetorical.  Nice set.

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Sulis2
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Re: How good is the X100S?
In reply to Joel Stern, Apr 11, 2013

I hate to sound like a spoilsport, but I don't see it myself. I have the X100 and love the files, and the X100s just didn't do it for me. I don't, I fear, see anything in these shots that makes them especially attractive.

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sgoldswo
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Re: How good is the X100S?
In reply to Sulis2, Apr 11, 2013

Sulis2 wrote:

I hate to sound like a spoilsport, but I don't see it myself. I have the X100 and love the files, and the X100s just didn't do it for me. I don't, I fear, see anything in these shots that makes them especially attractive.

You are entitled to your view - clearly I think the exact opposite, the X100S is significantly better as far as I'm concerned.

I guess one point I would make (that I've alluded to many times) is that I always had fun shooting with the X100, but sometimes the results didn't quite match up to the experience, not because of technique but because of the nature and properties of the camera.

I find that isn't so much of an issue (if at all) with the X100S.

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sgoldswo
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Re: How good is the X100S?
In reply to Joel Stern, Apr 11, 2013

Joel Stern wrote:

So your question is rhetorical.  Nice set.

Yes, I'm trying to be smart...

Thanks Joel

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Sulis2
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Re: How good is the X100S?
In reply to sgoldswo, Apr 11, 2013

I do agree about the results not living up to expectations - especially due to the AF doggedly latching on to the wrong bit of the scene. Very frustrating, which is why I stick to MF and the AFL button on my X100.

The X100s is more responsive, the EVF is clearer, you don't have to switch to macro to focus on people nearby, and using the manual focus ring on the lens is way better.

However, the lens is exactly the same, and I find I prefer the subtlety of the X100 sensor. Most of all, I find the AF on the X100s, even with phase detect pixels, was still capable of latching on to the background even though the subject pretty much filled the sensor box. That destroyed my confidence in the AF, so I am sticking with my X100.

I am not saying that the X100s is a bad camera - just that the AF is not as fixed as it might be. I would also suggest that Fuji consider implementing face detection - it's already built in to the replay mode - and maybe even focus peaking within the AF box (which would alert you that it was locking on to the wrong bit).

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sgoldswo
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Re: How good is the X100S?
In reply to Sulis2, Apr 11, 2013

Sulis2 wrote:

I do agree about the results not living up to expectations - especially due to the AF doggedly latching on to the wrong bit of the scene. Very frustrating, which is why I stick to MF and the AFL button on my X100.

The X100s is more responsive, the EVF is clearer, you don't have to switch to macro to focus on people nearby, and using the manual focus ring on the lens is way better.

However, the lens is exactly the same, and I find I prefer the subtlety of the X100 sensor.

Then we definitely disagree on this point - the X100 sensor is less subtle to my eyes. As I noted elsewhere, that's an issue of both colour and resolution.

Most of all, I find the AF on the X100s, even with phase detect pixels, was still capable of latching on to the background even though the subject pretty much filled the sensor box. That destroyed my confidence in the AF, so I am sticking with my X100.

I actually haven't had this at all with my X100S. Didn't really get it that much with the X100 - it was more of an issue of AF speed and lag (EVF, wake from sleep, switching out of play mode etc).

I am not saying that the X100s is a bad camera - just that the AF is not as fixed as it might be. I would also suggest that Fuji consider implementing face detection - it's already built in to the replay mode - and maybe even focus peaking within the AF box (which would alert you that it was locking on to the wrong bit).

Really confused by this, I find the AF very good indeed.

I would disagree on the face detection. It's constantly a minute of my life turning it off on every camera that includes it by default (are you listening Sony?).

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Sulis2
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Re: How good is the X100S?
In reply to sgoldswo, Apr 11, 2013

I am really not intending to try to do down the X100s - if it works for you, then great. All I can do is report my experience. If you want to know more details of the AF trouble I was having, then it's all in this thread here: http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3454196

None other than Zack Arias kindly gave some advice, which was to use a half size focus box, and get it to focus on a solid bit of the subject then recompose. That's fine, but if the addition of phase detect pixels can't stop it focusing on the background if there's the slightest opportunity, then they don't add an awful lot. And if I'm going to be focus and recomposing anyway - just to be sure - then I might as well be using manual focus and the AFL button on the X100.

My ultimate point is that the AF on the X100s - and the comments in the other thread seem to bear this out - still is not intelligent enough to focus on subjects in the foreground at the expense of the background. This is partly a contrast detection issue - but the phase detect pixels ought to be able to overcome this in good light.

Making the size of the focus box so small that it just focuses on the foreground subject sounds like a straightforward solution, but there will often be subjects (especially moving) where that will still be no panacea.

It also makes using the OVF even more hazardous if having the focus box go green still means you don't know where it's focusing.

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nicoboston
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Re: How good is the X100S?
In reply to sgoldswo, Apr 11, 2013

Could you please explain precisely what, in these pictures, indicates that this camera is good ?

IMO, similar pictures could have been captured with a smartphone.

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sgoldswo
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Re: How good is the X100S?
In reply to Sulis2, Apr 11, 2013

Sulis2 wrote:

I am really not intending to try to do down the X100s - if it works for you, then great. All I can do is report my experience. If you want to know more details of the AF trouble I was having, then it's all in this thread here: http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3454196

None other than Zack Arias kindly gave some advice, which was to use a half size focus box, and get it to focus on a solid bit of the subject then recompose. That's fine, but if the addition of phase detect pixels can't stop it focusing on the background if there's the slightest opportunity, then they don't add an awful lot. And if I'm going to be focus and recomposing anyway - just to be sure - then I might as well be using manual focus and the AFL button on the X100.

My ultimate point is that the AF on the X100s - and the comments in the other thread seem to bear this out - still is not intelligent enough to focus on subjects in the foreground at the expense of the background. This is partly a contrast detection issue - but the phase detect pixels ought to be able to overcome this in good light.

Making the size of the focus box so small that it just focuses on the foreground subject sounds like a straightforward solution, but there will often be subjects (especially moving) where that will still be no panacea.

It also makes using the OVF even more hazardous if having the focus box go green still means you don't know where it's focusing.

I don't think you need to reduce the focus box size (and all that will do is slow down AF). You just need to switch to AF-C and point the cross at your subject (and recompose if necessary). Doesn't work bad with the X100, works even better with the X100S

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Sutto
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Re: How good is the X100S?
In reply to Sulis2, Apr 11, 2013

I am with Sulis2 - 'I ain't see'n it'.  The camera is a lot more responsive, feels great to use, I love the brighter finder etc etc.   However, when it comes to PP, it is a pain.   I didn't have to try so hard with my old X100 - the gorgeous files just popped out of the RAW, and hit me in the face - the S files are damned hard work and still skin tones look like plastic, when viewed on 100%.  There is more depth to the S files, but (oh boy hard to explain), I just ain't seeing what everybody is raving on about.

I will need to decide in the next few days.   If I am going to offload this thing on 'fleabay', I had better do it now while it is still 'flavor of the month'.  With built-in-obsolescence being what it is today, a secondhand electronic device has the resale value of used undies, after about 4 months.  I can probably get most of my money back now though, because these are still hard to get a hold of in Auss at the moment.

Sutto

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sgoldswo
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Re: How good is the X100S?
In reply to nicoboston, Apr 11, 2013

nicoboston wrote:

Could you please explain precisely what, in these pictures, indicates that this camera is good ?

IMO, similar pictures could have been captured with a smartphone.

You must make friends and influence people with an entrance like that.

Perhaps you missed the link to my blog post. If not, I suggest you have a look at the pictures at 100%. If your smartphone shows that much detail it is a lot better than mine

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sgoldswo
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Re: How good is the X100S?
In reply to Sutto, Apr 11, 2013

Sutto wrote:

I am with Sulis2 - 'I ain't see'n it'.  The camera is a lot more responsive, feels great to use, I love the brighter finder etc etc.   However, when it comes to PP, it is a pain.   I didn't have to try so hard with my old X100 - the gorgeous files just popped out of the RAW, and hit me in the face - the S files are damned hard work and still skin tones look like plastic, when viewed on 100%.  There is more depth to the S files, but (oh boy hard to explain), I just ain't seeing what everybody is raving on about.

I will need to decide in the next few days.   If I am going to offload this thing on 'fleabay', I had better do it now while it is still 'flavor of the month'.  With built-in-obsolescence being what it is today, a secondhand electronic device has the resale value of used undies, after about 4 months.  I can probably get most of my money back now though, because these are still hard to get a hold of in Auss at the moment.

Sutto

philipsuttonphotography.com

Sutto,

I agree, you don't have as much latitude around PP as a bayer camera, particularly with respect to sharpening. Don't agree on the skin tones however and I'm clear that the IQ is great IMO. It compares closely to output from my new D600.

You are allowed not to like a camera or its image quality though - people raved about the NEX-7 but I never really liked it.

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eastvillager
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Re: How good is the X100S?
In reply to sgoldswo, Apr 11, 2013

two underexposed black and whites and a flat color photo. Not impressed. What's your point? Thank god I already have the camera and making some amazing pictures with it or I might be confused into thinking the meter doesn't work.

sgoldswo wrote:

Very (IMO)

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sgoldswo
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Re: How good is the X100S?
In reply to eastvillager, Apr 11, 2013

eastvillager wrote:

two underexposed black and whites and a flat color photo. Not impressed. What's your point? Thank god I already have the camera and making some amazing pictures with it or I might be confused into thinking the meter doesn't work.

It's called contrast and added in PP. You don't have to like the way I process photos but note the point was to refer to the post on my blog. Did you see the link?

Would love to see your amazing pictures by the way.

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framus
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Re: How good is the X100S?
In reply to nicoboston, Apr 11, 2013

nicoboston wrote:

Could you please explain precisely what, in these pictures, indicates that this camera is good ?

IMO, similar pictures could have been captured with a smartphone.

Well, what you see is what you get.  Clearly you should use a smartphone.

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JCP_76
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Re: How good is the X100S?
In reply to nicoboston, Apr 11, 2013

nicoboston wrote:

Could you please explain precisely what, in these pictures, indicates that this camera is good ?

IMO, similar pictures could have been captured with a smartphone.

Hmmm, it's not the first time you've criticised the OP's work is it?

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3381045?page=2

I suggest you stop trolling and show us your wonderful smartphone pics?

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nicoboston
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Re: How good is the X100S?
In reply to JCP_76, Apr 11, 2013

JCP_76 wrote:

nicoboston wrote:

Could you please explain precisely what, in these pictures, indicates that this camera is good ?

IMO, similar pictures could have been captured with a smartphone.

Hmmm, it's not the first time you've criticised the OP's work is it?

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3381045?page=2

I suggest you stop trolling and show us your wonderful smartphone pics?

Criticizing is not trolling.

If you don't like criticism, don't make you images publicly available !

I don't understand what the original post is supposed to demonstrate, period. Am I authorized to be not impressed by these images ? To me, they look like smartphone-captured images. What do they look like at 100% ? Just bigger.

As far as I'm concerned, I share pictures with family and friends exclusively. I'm not narcissistic enough to make them publicly available, and I couldn't care less about your opinion about my "work". If people like you or the OP want to publish their pictures online, feel free to do it and be ready for criticism. That's a side effect of being public.

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sgoldswo
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Re: How good is the X100S?
In reply to nicoboston, Apr 11, 2013

nicoboston wrote:

JCP_76 wrote:

nicoboston wrote:

Could you please explain precisely what, in these pictures, indicates that this camera is good ?

IMO, similar pictures could have been captured with a smartphone.

Hmmm, it's not the first time you've criticised the OP's work is it?

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3381045?page=2

I suggest you stop trolling and show us your wonderful smartphone pics?

Criticizing is not trolling.

If you don't like criticism, don't make you images publicly available !

I don't understand what the original post is supposed to demonstrate, period. Am I authorized to be not impressed by these images ? To me, they look like smartphone-captured images. What do they look like at 100% ? Just bigger.

As far as I'm concerned, I share pictures with family and friends exclusively. I'm not narcissistic enough to make them publicly available, and I couldn't care less about your opinion about my "work". If people like you or the OP want to publish their pictures online, feel free to do it and be ready for criticism. That's a side effect of being public.

nico,

In a tribute to you I have amended my blog post. Since you were so horrified by my pictures (and given that I can't expect you to go back to my blog post) I thought I would refer to to a post I made a while back comparing the output from the X-Pro1 to the iPhone 5... http://wp.me/p2wMAg-e6

Thanks for your input.

Simon

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eastvillager
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Re: How good is the X100S?
In reply to nicoboston, Apr 11, 2013

I totally agree with you. People don't seem to have a problem here when people are praising their photos but if someone says something negative about them it's trolling. Whats the point of these dark, uninteresting photos. I come here to read readers impressions, questions, suggestions and any interesting relevant information about the particular cameras in that forum. FIrst pictures should be be literally the first pictures seen from that camera. A week later you're just wearing us out with your own particular need to be praised and massaged. Put your pictures on flickr or instagram. If someone wants to actually follow you let them. This OP says I should put my pictures up. Why? If you can't take a good picture why would I care what you have to say about mine.

nicoboston wrote:

JCP_76 wrote:

nicoboston wrote:

Could you please explain precisely what, in these pictures, indicates that this camera is good ?

IMO, similar pictures could have been captured with a smartphone.

Hmmm, it's not the first time you've criticised the OP's work is it?

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3381045?page=2

I suggest you stop trolling and show us your wonderful smartphone pics?

Criticizing is not trolling.

If you don't like criticism, don't make you images publicly available !

I don't understand what the original post is supposed to demonstrate, period. Am I authorized to be not impressed by these images ? To me, they look like smartphone-captured images. What do they look like at 100% ? Just bigger.

As far as I'm concerned, I share pictures with family and friends exclusively. I'm not narcissistic enough to make them publicly available, and I couldn't care less about your opinion about my "work". If people like you or the OP want to publish their pictures online, feel free to do it and be ready for criticism. That's a side effect of being public.

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