low light shot of Sony NEX-6 vs Fuji X100

Started Apr 11, 2013 | Discussions
Herts_JoaTMoN
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Re: low light shot of Sony NEX-6 vs Fuji X100
In reply to captura, Apr 12, 2013

captura wrote:

RGBaker wrote:

Amamba wrote:

The image is not only darker, it lacks detail relative to X100 image.

But as I said earlier, this is more likely due to the difference in lenses used.

Perhaps the lens used, but in truth the NEX photos look to suffer from motion blur or missed focus on top of being underexposed -- there is no doubt they are poor photos, I'm just not certain why they are as poor as they are. 
Cheers,
GB

Having read the entire post, I guess that the most likely scenario was that the OP had accidentally left his exposure compensation on the Sony at -2, or thereabouts.

We had already suggested that and the OP said they have it set to 0. Either they are looking at the wrong setting or there is an issue with there particular camera thats causing it to under expose. I guess a good test is to get them to up the EV to +1 or higher and try a similar shot to see what the result is. If it looks the same then we can narrow it down to either of those problems.

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Pete peterson
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Re: low light shot of Sony NEX-6 vs Fuji X100
In reply to captura, Apr 12, 2013

captura wrote:

I noticed that a NEX-6, which I handled in the Sony Store, had a smallish, inferior (to my G1) EVF which suffered from 'Smearing,' a known problem with another popular camera, the GH3.

I've noticed something of the sort. It is not as good as Fuji's EVF in low light that is for sure. I good daylight the sony is brilliant.

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Re: PART II -- I've RE-DONE the shots in manual mode
In reply to Pete peterson, Apr 12, 2013

Ok So i took people's advice and re-took these shots in manual mode for a better comparison.

This time the pictures are very similar. The Sony's are a little warmer than the Fuji. The white toy from the fuji looks a little greyer and the sony has a brown tinge.

I must say though even though I was berated by some people here, the Fuji did a great job without having to resort to manual mode. The pictures in the original posting were all done in aperture priority.

Sorry but I've tried to upload for comparison but the upload fails every time I try.

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Herts_JoaTMoN
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Re: PART II -- I've RE-DONE the shots in manual mode
In reply to Pete peterson, Apr 12, 2013

Pete peterson wrote:

Ok So i took people's advice and re-took these shots in manual mode for a better comparison.

This time the pictures are very similar. The Sony's are a little warmer than the Fuji. The white toy from the fuji looks a little greyer and the sony has a brown tinge.

I must say though even though I was berated by some people here, the Fuji did a great job without having to resort to manual mode. The pictures in the original posting were all done in aperture priority.

Sorry but I've tried to upload for comparison but the upload fails every time I try.

If the Fuji works for you then you have your answer as to which one to keep. Your only issue will come if you decide you want a different focal length...

I still find the Sony results suprising though given that i'm on my 3rd NEX body (3 -> 5 -> 5N) and never seen it under expose like that. If anything I found that it sometimes over exposed by about 0.3 EV in normal light and more in darker scenarios. I dont think people were berating you personally (at least that wasnt my intention) but rather were concerned that your camera is not performing correctly.

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SimonOL
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Re: PART II -- I've RE-DONE the shots in manual mode
In reply to Pete peterson, Apr 12, 2013

Pete peterson wrote:

Ok So i took people's advice and re-took these shots in manual mode for a better comparison.

This time the pictures are very similar. The Sony's are a little warmer than the Fuji. The white toy from the fuji looks a little greyer and the sony has a brown tinge.

I must say though even though I was berated by some people here, the Fuji did a great job without having to resort to manual mode. The pictures in the original posting were all done in aperture priority.

Sorry but I've tried to upload for comparison but the upload fails every time I try.

That's good - thanks for persisting

Would be great to see the results - I think the site is suffering a few glitches atm; could you try again a bit later?

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boardsy
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Re: PART II -- I've RE-DONE the shots in manual mode
In reply to Pete peterson, Apr 12, 2013

Pete peterson wrote:

Ok So i took people's advice and re-took these shots in manual mode for a better comparison.

This time the pictures are very similar. The Sony's are a little warmer than the Fuji. The white toy from the fuji looks a little greyer and the sony has a brown tinge.

I must say though even though I was berated by some people here, the Fuji did a great job without having to resort to manual mode. The pictures in the original posting were all done in aperture priority.

Sorry but I've tried to upload for comparison but the upload fails every time I try.

Site's acting up at the moment. Sorry to labour this, and I'm not berating you (in fact I asked other folks not to be rude in their criticism)  but can you check the EXIF and confirm that your NEX originals were at  EV=0 in A mode? If so there's something wrong with your camera - I use A mode 99% of the time on my NEX-5 & f3, and the camera will slow the shutter speed right down to 30secs if necessary to expose the shot correctly to EV = 0.  It really looks like yours were at EV = -2.0 or something else was wrong. My NEXes have never under-exposed this badly for no reason.

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Clayton1985
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Re: PART II -- I've RE-DONE the shots in manual mode
In reply to Pete peterson, Apr 12, 2013

Pete peterson wrote:

I must say though even though I was berated by some people here, the Fuji did a great job without having to resort to manual mode. The pictures in the original posting were all done in aperture priority.

I think the recommendation to use manual mode was an attempt to help you get somewhat closer to a realistic comparison.  Manual mode shouldn't be required for a NEX 6 working properly and with the correct settings.

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Re: PART II -- I've RE-DONE the shots in manual mode
In reply to Herts_JoaTMoN, Apr 12, 2013

Herts_JoaTMoN wrote:

Pete peterson wrote:

Ok So i took people's advice and re-took these shots in manual mode for a better comparison.

This time the pictures are very similar. The Sony's are a little warmer than the Fuji. The white toy from the fuji looks a little greyer and the sony has a brown tinge.

I must say though even though I was berated by some people here, the Fuji did a great job without having to resort to manual mode. The pictures in the original posting were all done in aperture priority.

Sorry but I've tried to upload for comparison but the upload fails every time I try.

If the Fuji works for you then you have your answer as to which one to keep. Your only issue will come if you decide you want a different focal length...

I still find the Sony results suprising though given that i'm on my 3rd NEX body (3 -> 5 -> 5N) and never seen it under expose like that. If anything I found that it sometimes over exposed by about 0.3 EV in normal light and more in darker scenarios. I dont think people were berating you personally (at least that wasnt my intention) but rather were concerned that your camera is not performing correctly.

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Ben Williams - UK
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Nikon V1 / N1 10-30. N1 30-110 / Franiec Grip.
Sony TX10.

I appreciate that, I think it was a couple of people who misunderstood my thread's intention. Most of the posters  on this thread have been great.

I think now I'm going to decide on ergonomics and the sony wins but there is a £250 premium on that!!

I'll try and get those pics on here anyway.

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Pete peterson
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Re: PART II -- I've RE-DONE the shots in manual mode
In reply to boardsy, Apr 12, 2013

boardsy wrote:

Pete peterson wrote:

Ok So i took people's advice and re-took these shots in manual mode for a better comparison.

This time the pictures are very similar. The Sony's are a little warmer than the Fuji. The white toy from the fuji looks a little greyer and the sony has a brown tinge.

I must say though even though I was berated by some people here, the Fuji did a great job without having to resort to manual mode. The pictures in the original posting were all done in aperture priority.

Sorry but I've tried to upload for comparison but the upload fails every time I try.

Site's acting up at the moment. Sorry to labour this, and I'm not berating you (in fact I asked other folks not to be rude in their criticism)  but can you check the EXIF and confirm that your NEX originals were at  EV=0 in A mode? If so there's something wrong with your camera - I use A mode 99% of the time on my NEX-5 & f3, and the camera will slow the shutter speed right down to 30secs if necessary to expose the shot correctly to EV = 0.  It really looks like yours were at EV = -2.0 or something else was wrong. My NEXes have never under-exposed this badly for no reason.

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I'll test it out tonight on aperture priority again just to make sure but I'm pretty sure the Ex comp was on zero.

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Re: PART II -- I've RE-DONE the shots in manual mode
In reply to Clayton1985, Apr 12, 2013

Clayton1985 wrote:

Pete peterson wrote:

I must say though even though I was berated by some people here, the Fuji did a great job without having to resort to manual mode. The pictures in the original posting were all done in aperture priority.

I think the recommendation to use manual mode was an attempt to help you get somewhat closer to a realistic comparison.  Manual mode shouldn't be required for a NEX 6 working properly and with the correct settings.

I appreciate that Clayton. I've done them in manual and the camera does metre correctly in this mode but unfortunately can't upload them.

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Re: PART II -- I've uploaded some West End night shots in My Gallery but .....
In reply to SimonOL, Apr 12, 2013

I ran out of space before i could get the soft toy ones in. There is one there, but it is from the fuji in manual mode, the sony has however similar brightness but just a tad warmer.

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zackiedawg
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Pete,
In reply to Pete peterson, Apr 12, 2013

Hey Pete - I avoided this thread because of some of the responses you were getting sounded like it was going to get a little testy in here - but you also got some very good advice and responses in here too - so I had nothing to add.  Count me in with those who think that you might have something wrong with your camera, though.

I think what he's saying isn't that YOU had the EV accidentally set to -2 - you didn't, according to the EXIF.  But clearly your NEX6 was not performing like everyone else's does in that same scenario.  IE: if you shoot with a NEX6 in aperture priority in the same lighting as that Fuji, with the same settings, the brightness on pretty much every NEX6 out there would come out the same as the Fuji's brightness, or at least close enough to not matter.  Some of the settings chosen may be different - in other words, at F5.6 in aperture priority, the Fuji might have chosen a slower shutter speed and lower ISo by default, and the NEX a faster shutter speed with a higher ISO, but the end result should be equal brightness.  The fact that the NEX6 sample you showed was so drastically underexposed points to some kind of odd issue - a setting that was set but not reading out on the screen (in other words, you thought you were on 0 EV, and the camera SAID 0EV, but was still shooting in -2 EV...or you thought you were on multi-metering, and the camera SAID multi-metering, but somehow you were metering in spot mode...something like that).  Or, you had something strange like a sticking aperture, improperly mounted lens causing issues between the lens and camera connection, etc. which caused the camera to take what it thought was a proper exposure, but the aperture blades closed more than expected and forced underexposure, or the lens mount wasn't connected well or properly and gave the wrong readings.

The point being, pretty much any of our NEX cameras, in the same scenario, would never, ever underexpose that badly in the same shooting scenario, assuming the same aperture setting as the Fuji, and shutter & ISO left controlled by the camera, and EV set to 0.  I shoot a ton of low light and night handheld shots with my NEX5N, and though a different camera than yours, the basic system for metering and shooting is the same...I can say positively and without doubt that mine would never underexpose any scene like that unless I forced it to (spot metering off a lightbulb in the scene, or setting EV down to -2).  It may go for a longer shutter speed that would be difficult to handhold, or it may crank the ISO to 3200, but it would NOT use a faster shutter or low ISO and underexpose the scene by 2-3 stops!

So it seems possible your camera has some fault and it would be worth exchanging for another, rather than assume that all NEX cameras perform like yours does.  If you prefer the Fuji, then that's another story - if you like it, keep it.  But just keep your mind open to the idea that your particular example of NEX may be a faulty one, and not indicative of that camera's performance.

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gwlaw99
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Re: PART II -- I've RE-DONE the shots in manual mode
In reply to Pete peterson, Apr 12, 2013

Pete peterson wrote:

Ok So i took people's advice and re-took these shots in manual mode for a better comparison.

This time the pictures are very similar. The Sony's are a little warmer than the Fuji. The white toy from the fuji looks a little greyer and the sony has a brown tinge.

This is probably you not setting a neural white balance.

I must say though even though I was berated by some people here, the Fuji did a great job without having to resort to manual mode. The pictures in the original posting were all done in aperture priority.

Sorry but I've tried to upload for comparison but the upload fails every time I try.

Out of curiosity, are you using matrix metering for both cameras?

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Re: Pete,
In reply to zackiedawg, Apr 12, 2013

zackiedawg wrote:

Hey Pete - I avoided this thread because of some of the responses you were getting sounded like it was going to get a little testy in here - but you also got some very good advice and responses in here too - so I had nothing to add.  Count me in with those who think that you might have something wrong with your camera, though.

I think what he's saying isn't that YOU had the EV accidentally set to -2 - you didn't, according to the EXIF.  But clearly your NEX6 was not performing like everyone else's does in that same scenario.  IE: if you shoot with a NEX6 in aperture priority in the same lighting as that Fuji, with the same settings, the brightness on pretty much every NEX6 out there would come out the same as the Fuji's brightness, or at least close enough to not matter.  Some of the settings chosen may be different - in other words, at F5.6 in aperture priority, the Fuji might have chosen a slower shutter speed and lower ISo by default, and the NEX a faster shutter speed with a higher ISO, but the end result should be equal brightness.  The fact that the NEX6 sample you showed was so drastically underexposed points to some kind of odd issue - a setting that was set but not reading out on the screen (in other words, you thought you were on 0 EV, and the camera SAID 0EV, but was still shooting in -2 EV...or you thought you were on multi-metering, and the camera SAID multi-metering, but somehow you were metering in spot mode...something like that).  Or, you had something strange like a sticking aperture, improperly mounted lens causing issues between the lens and camera connection, etc. which caused the camera to take what it thought was a proper exposure, but the aperture blades closed more than expected and forced underexposure, or the lens mount wasn't connected well or properly and gave the wrong readings.

The point being, pretty much any of our NEX cameras, in the same scenario, would never, ever underexpose that badly in the same shooting scenario, assuming the same aperture setting as the Fuji, and shutter & ISO left controlled by the camera, and EV set to 0.  I shoot a ton of low light and night handheld shots with my NEX5N, and though a different camera than yours, the basic system for metering and shooting is the same...I can say positively and without doubt that mine would never underexpose any scene like that unless I forced it to (spot metering off a lightbulb in the scene, or setting EV down to -2).  It may go for a longer shutter speed that would be difficult to handhold, or it may crank the ISO to 3200, but it would NOT use a faster shutter or low ISO and underexpose the scene by 2-3 stops!

So it seems possible your camera has some fault and it would be worth exchanging for another, rather than assume that all NEX cameras perform like yours does.  If you prefer the Fuji, then that's another story - if you like it, keep it.  But just keep your mind open to the idea that your particular example of NEX may be a faulty one, and not indicative of that camera's performance.

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Thanks for that comprehensive advice and info.  I'll certainly take it on board. I'll check it again tonight in aperture priority mode and see if it comes anywhere near the manual tests I did last night - which were great. I'll check all the settings including metering mode. If it messes up again, and the settings displayed are correct, then as you say it could be firmware/hardware issues.

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Re: PART II -- I've RE-DONE the shots in manual mode
In reply to gwlaw99, Apr 12, 2013

gwlaw99 wrote:

Pete peterson wrote:

Ok So i took people's advice and re-took these shots in manual mode for a better comparison.

This time the pictures are very similar. The Sony's are a little warmer than the Fuji. The white toy from the fuji looks a little greyer and the sony has a brown tinge.

This is probably you not setting a neural white balance.

I must say though even though I was berated by some people here, the Fuji did a great job without having to resort to manual mode. The pictures in the original posting were all done in aperture priority.

Sorry but I've tried to upload for comparison but the upload fails every time I try.

Out of curiosity, are you using matrix metering for both cameras?

Yes both cameras were in matrix. I haven't used spot yet on the sony.

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Re: low light shot of Sony NEX-6 vs Fuji X100
In reply to Pete peterson, Apr 12, 2013

Pete peterson wrote:

captura wrote:

I noticed that a NEX-6, which I handled in the Sony Store, had a smallish, inferior (to my G1) EVF which suffered from 'Smearing,' a known problem with another popular camera, the GH3.

I've noticed something of the sort. It is not as good as Fuji's EVF in low light that is for sure. I good daylight the sony is brilliant.

Ha Ha I can't comment on the Fuji but I use my NEX for low-light shooting and my m43's for good daylight shooting.

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Re: low light shot of Sony NEX-6 vs Fuji X100
In reply to Pete peterson, Apr 12, 2013

your exposures are not equal, try the sony at +1 or 2 to compare

Jeff

Pete peterson wrote:

I did some test shots at home under florescent light. I don't know if the test was fair though because of the fuji prime lens. Perhaps I need a prime lens on the Sony to make it fair.

Please feel free to add low light indoors shots of Sony NEX 6 with a prime lens if you have any.

I will add low light outdoor shots as well when it stops raining in this country!

If it can be considered a fair test, I think the Fuji X100 wins hands down.

PS: The Fuji's EVF under this light was far superior to the NEX-6, despite the sony's 1 million extra pixels in the EVF. The sony's is crispier in bright light but it suffers from some kind of shimmer, for want of a better word,  where as the Fuji EVF is stable.

Fuji X100, f/4

Fuji X100, f/3.6

Fuji X100, f/5.6

sony nex-6

NEX-6 f/4.5 ISO 3200

NEX-6

fuji x100

fuji X100

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Re: PART II -- I've RE-DONE the shots in manual mode
In reply to Pete peterson, Apr 12, 2013

Pete peterson wrote:

gwlaw99 wrote:

Pete peterson wrote:

Ok So i took people's advice and re-took these shots in manual mode for a better comparison.

This time the pictures are very similar. The Sony's are a little warmer than the Fuji. The white toy from the fuji looks a little greyer and the sony has a brown tinge.

This is probably you not setting a neural white balance.

I must say though even though I was berated by some people here, the Fuji did a great job without having to resort to manual mode. The pictures in the original posting were all done in aperture priority.

Sorry but I've tried to upload for comparison but the upload fails every time I try.

Out of curiosity, are you using matrix metering for both cameras?

Yes both cameras were in matrix. I haven't used spot yet on the sony.

Hi, just wanted to say that I've not been using matrix focusing due to my finding focusing inconsistencies with that mode. And I'm not sure if PDAF even operates in that mode.

Thanks.

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Re: low light shot of Sony NEX-6 vs Fuji X100
In reply to BBViet, Apr 12, 2013

SEL35F18

This is an outside low light, wide open.

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Re: low light shot of Sony NEX-6 vs Fuji X100
In reply to captura, Apr 12, 2013

captura wrote:

Pete peterson wrote:

captura wrote:

I noticed that a NEX-6, which I handled in the Sony Store, had a smallish, inferior (to my G1) EVF which suffered from 'Smearing,' a known problem with another popular camera, the GH3.

I've noticed something of the sort. It is not as good as Fuji's EVF in low light that is for sure. I good daylight the sony is brilliant.

Ha Ha I can't comment on the Fuji but I use my NEX for low-light shooting and my m43's for good daylight shooting.

I meant Sony's EVF is brilliant in good daylight..

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