What is largest possible print size with a GH3 1 and 12-35/f2.8 (without loss of Quality)

Started Apr 10, 2013 | Discussions
josbiker
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What is largest possible print size with a GH3 1 and 12-35/f2.8 (without loss of Quality)
Apr 10, 2013
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rsmithgi
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Re: What is largest possible print size with a GH3 1 and 12-35/f2.8 (without loss of Quality)
In reply to josbiker, Apr 10, 2013

18 mm × 13.5 mm

j/k

In all seriousness, this question cannot be answered for a bunch of reasons:

1. It depends on the subject matter, shooting conditions, etc.

2. It depends on the viewer of the photo.

3. It depends on the viewing distance for the photo.

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Walt Palmer
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Re: What is largest possible print size with a GH3 1 and 12-35/f2.8 (without loss of Quality)
In reply to rsmithgi, Apr 10, 2013

rsmithgi wrote:

18 mm × 13.5 mm

j/k

In all seriousness, this question cannot be answered for a bunch of reasons:

1. It depends on the subject matter, shooting conditions, etc.

2. It depends on the viewer of the photo.

3. It depends on the viewing distance for the photo.

18x13.5 mm - anything else constitutes an enlargement and introduces loss of quality.

Ok, to be simple about it. You are probably asking for how big before it starts to break down and show pixelation (otherwise you probably wouldn't be asking here). Again, there are SO MANY variables; but if you are sending it to a decent lab, you should be thrilled up to at least 20x30".

That's really simplified, but I hope it helps. If you are printing it yourself, I agree with 18x13.5 mm

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howardfuhrman
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Re: What is largest possible print size with a GH3 1 and 12-35/f2.8 (without loss of Quality)
In reply to josbiker, Apr 10, 2013

I do not have a GH3 or a 12-35/2.8mm, but I shot the following photo with a G1 and a 20 1.7mm and blew it up to 20x30 and to my untrained eye, it looks great without loss of detail and is very sharp.  I blew it up to 20x30 just to see how it would come out.  It came out great; I framed and now it hangs in my office for others to enjoy.  Bear in mind to load this on my website, I had to significantly reduce resolution.  If I could do this with a G1 which has an old sensor with less pixels than the GH3, the GH3 should do a whole lot better than my photo.

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drcPhoto
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Re: What is largest possible print size with a GH3 1 and 12-35/f2.8 (without loss of Quality)
In reply to Walt Palmer, Apr 10, 2013

Take a look at one of the more recent videos done at Discovermirrorless.com.  They show a 44 X 44 inch portrait print of a person done from a comparable mirrorless camera and printed on an Ebson 9880 printer That looks pretty decent.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=elevkKw7T4M

Dale

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dmanthree
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Re: What is largest possible print size with a GH3 1 and 12-35/f2.8 (without loss of Quality)
In reply to josbiker, Apr 10, 2013

josbiker wrote:

Very subjective, but with proper post processing and a sharp original image you could produce something about 5' wide. Yes, really. For that size print you only need 150dpi, and with proper up-ressing you can produce a print that will look very nice, as long as you don't take view it with a magnifying glass.

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jkrumm
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Re: What is largest possible print size with a GH3 1 and 12-35/f2.8 (without loss of Quality)
In reply to rsmithgi, Apr 10, 2013

>18 mm × 13.5 mm

Pretty funny, actually, since you do hear about there being nothing like a good contact print with large format. Unfortunately I don't think printing and eyeglass technology would allow the same from 18mm x13.5mm.

I need to try a large print myself, just to see how it would turn out. My 13 x19 at home size limit is no problem for even my older 10 mp images.

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ryan2007
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Re: What is largest possible print size with a GH3 1 and 12-35/f2.8 (without loss of Quality)
In reply to josbiker, Apr 10, 2013

josbiker wrote:

To reiteriate, Assuming you have a perfect exposure, you use a photo quality printer like Epson with Epson inks and Epson Paper or at minimum a quality paper AND you set the printer the correct way so it sprays ink correctly. Your monitor is current, maybe calibrated.

I can not see why you can not go life size like 6 feet kind of thing.  At the same time even the best print the closer you stand you'll see pixels the larger the print.

I would say the sensor is important. It would be an interesting comparison to the Fuji X series MFT or compact like the X100s to see what that yields.  The result with a DSLR would most likely be better. For that matter medium format digital is a different league.

If this is for professional/commercial use and I'm a GH-3 owner I would look elsewhere. Back to the Fuji thing. I just received the X20 compact and it reminds me of my old Contax G2 in the handling. The Xpro or XE-1 I think for stills and the GH-3 and 12-35 I have are fantastic.  I am not attached to any camera no matter how new and short I have had it.

Its about the final result when given a choice. For me video is also Very important and the GH-3 is great. Fuji for video not so great.

If I switched systems I would have to buy a dedicated video camera. Fuji does stills very well and I am starting to believe way better than Olympus or Panasonic. The problem with Fuji X and the lenses is Panasonic and Olympus just have more choice in lens selection.

I actually just sold my GX-1, 25 1.4 and 45-200 today. The body size of the GX-1 and Fuji X20 are the same. The exception the X20 has a built in zoom lens, but has a Great optical viewfinder.

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josbiker
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Re: What is largest possible print size with a GH3 1 and 12-35/f2.8 (without loss of Quality)
In reply to josbiker, Apr 10, 2013

josbiker wrote:

Can i print with a FF camera a bigger size and so yes, HOW MUCH BIGGER?

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shihhan
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Re: What is largest possible print size with a GH3 1 and 12-35/f2.8 (without loss of Quality)
In reply to josbiker, Apr 10, 2013

josbiker wrote:

josbiker wrote:

Can i print with a FF camera a bigger size and so yes, HOW MUCH BIGGER?

Theoretically 4 times bigger... since 4 times the sensor size.
But realistically the pixels don't scale up so well as 16Mpx on MFT land =  64Mpx on FF.
Not many FF cameras have that yet...

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Bob Tullis
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Re: What is largest possible print size with a GH3 1 and 12-35/f2.8 (without loss of Quality)
In reply to josbiker, Apr 10, 2013

josbiker wrote:

josbiker wrote:

Can i print with a FF camera a bigger size and so yes, HOW MUCH BIGGER?

You can compensate for the print limitations by combining several exposures into a larger megapixel image (utilizing a single or multi-row pano approach).   Then again if you had a DSLR you might want to do that anyway.    If printing very large is more than an occasional one-off project you're best off with the biggest sensor you can handle.

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Len_Gee
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Re: What is largest possible print size with a GH3 1 and 12-35/f2.8 (without loss of Quality)
In reply to josbiker, Apr 10, 2013

I've seen shots taken with GH3/12-35 f/2.8 combo with no loss of IQ;

24"x36".

48"x72" using Genuine Fractals software.

At standard viewing distances.

Enjoy your camera and lens.

Regards.

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Guy Parsons
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A simple way to calculate....
In reply to josbiker, Apr 10, 2013

A simple way is to use the following rules (it has worked for me for years with different digital cameras, starting with 3 MP models).

♦ The basics, if you can print a sharp 8x 10 inch then that same file can be used to print to any size as long as you view it at the proper distance of 10 inches or the diagonal measure of the print, whichever is longer. But to get "sharp" prints, follow these rules....

♦ Find the pixel width of the image that you want to print. Not an interpolated number, the original count of pixels from the camera, be aware that it may be cropped, so get the actual finished pixel count......

♦ For truly sharp print that really satisfies nose against it looking then divide the pixel count by 300 to get the maximum possible inch width, say 4608 pixels wide, divide by 300 to get 15.36 inches wide.

♦ For general viewing that appears to be "sharp enough" for casual examination use 200 as the divider, so 4608/200=23.04 inches wide.

♦ With careful treatment of the image and non critical viewing then maybe the absolute lower limit of that divider is 180, so 4608/180=25.6 inches.

♦ Most times huge prints are hung on a wall and never ever expected to be nose up against it viewing so the divider can be way smaller but when you get to 150 or lower it does look soft up close but perfectly good at the proper view distance. Example 4608/150=30.72 inches wide. So if a print like that is hung on a hall wall people can get close to it so can see it is soft, if hung say over the bed where people cannot walk closer then 150 or lower is perfectly good, remember the "ideal" view distance should be the diagonal of the print.

All the above assumes proper printing and sharpening methods, with interpolating the file size to higher "pixel" counts to avoid jaggies in the final print. I always use Qimage Ultimate for printing and that program interpolates your image file up to the requirements of the particular printer in use (Epson 720 dpi, Canon 600 dpi and strange numbers if full bleed borderless printing) and also auto sharpens the image to suit the print size. The results always look better than using say Photoshop to print. Qimage can of course create a proper file to send to a print lab.

People will try to tell you that clever interpolation programs allow you to print to any size, but all they do is smooth the result and maybe enhance edges in a clever fashion so the large print may look sharp but on close examination there's an absence of fine detail, like an overblown image of a bird, you see the bird and its beak looks sharp, but where did all the feather detail go?

Anyway, remember that people have been printing large (often way "over size") for a long time and with a good camera and lens combination you can print to any size you like as long as you are aware of what to expect and how it will be displayed.

Regards...... Guy

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flbrit
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See this link
In reply to josbiker, Apr 10, 2013

http://www.bythom.com/printsizes.htm

this may get flamed because some do not like his review of the OMD dispite the fact he still shoots it and quite likes it.

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Future user
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Re: What is largest possible print size with a GH3 1 and 12-35/f2.8 (without loss of Quality)
In reply to josbiker, Apr 10, 2013

If your file is very sharp and clean to begin with, huge sizes. I've printed A4 from very clean and sharp 1280x1024 files.

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BJN
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A building wrap.
In reply to josbiker, Apr 10, 2013

Print quality is a function of viewing distance. You can print a huge image if it doesn't need to hold up to close up scrutiny. If you're going to look at detail with your nose a foot from the print, then something like 11x14 would be appropriate for Micro Four Thirds. But that's just a rule of thumb since many images don't rely on fine detail to work, and not all prints invite close up viewing.

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dmanthree
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Re: What is largest possible print size with a GH3 1 and 12-35/f2.8 (without loss of Quality)
In reply to Bob Tullis, Apr 10, 2013

Bob Tullis wrote:

josbiker wrote:

josbiker wrote:

Can i print with a FF camera a bigger size and so yes, HOW MUCH BIGGER?

You can compensate for the print limitations by combining several exposures into a larger megapixel image (utilizing a single or multi-row pano approach).   Then again if you had a DSLR you might want to do that anyway.    If printing very large is more than an occasional one-off project you're best off with the biggest sensor you can handle.

You beat me to it. If you're going to be making huge prints all the time, get a Nikon D800e and be done with it. Or something in the medium format range.

That said, I did enlarge an image to 5' across, but only printed a small section (8.5 x 11). It looked pretty good!

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Werner B
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Re: What is largest possible print size with a GH3 1 and 12-35/f2.8 (without loss of Quality)
In reply to dmanthree, Apr 11, 2013

At the risk of inducing everyone's wrath, a simple formula is to figure out how many pixels your pictures have and divide by the quality or DPI (dots per inch) on the print. In your case it would be 4608x3456(I think). Divide that by 300 which is the standard for a decent print and you get 11.52x15.36. My local Walmart seems to print at something like 286 DPi- that seems to be a number that I crop at without seeing any cropping in the print. A Pro service that I sometimes use can print at 400 DPI. So, its safe to assume an 11x14 print would be acceptable.

Now, there are all kinds of factors that others have mentioned like viewing distance, etc. A full frame 16 megapixel will have the same ratio but may return better results based on the larger size of the pixels. There are enlarging softwares out there that produce great results such as Perfect Resize that can be used to up-size an image to match a print size for given DPI's.

If you check the sites of digital medium format backs, ( that range from 10-40 thousand dollars) they provide the same info regarding enlargements.

So what does it all mean? If you want to try a really large blow-up, I would go to some place like Walmart and get a cheap 'POSTER' print done to see if your shot works. The poster prints are done one a different machine and will not yield the same quality of a print, if for no other reason than the quality of the paper, but it is a fair indicator as to what it may look like.

Don't worry about which lens you used. If the image looks sharp-it is sharp. Experiment, and see what works for you. There is nothing like making a large print of an image that you like, or has a personal meaning for you and is hung on the wall. After all, making prints is what photography is all about! Isn't it?

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JosephScha
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Re: Largest print - at least 16x20
In reply to josbiker, Apr 11, 2013

The first 16x20 I made was from a 3.2Megapixel Canon A70.  It looked surprisingly good, but if you looked close it wasn't really sharp.  Fortunately, it was on a wall with a desk in front of it so people pretty much had to stand 2 feet away! At that distance it did not look soft.

The next 16x20 I made was from a 6 Megapixel Panasonic FZ7.  With a magnificent "Leica" labelled lens.  That one still hangs in my cubicle at work, and it looks quite sharp although of you calculate it it's only about 140 pixels per inch.  It's a photo of Pike's Peak from Garden of the Gods Rd, Colorado Springs, CO.

Now, for the past couple of years, I've had a 12MP DMC-G10.  4000x3000 means approx. 200 pixels per inch at 16x20".  I have no doubt that it would look fabulous at 16x20.

But I really agree with the previous post that answered "a building wrap".  Because of the viewing distance, that's absolutely correct.

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FoolyCooly
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Re: What is largest possible print size with a GH3 1 and 12-35/f2.8 (without loss of Quality)
In reply to josbiker, Apr 11, 2013

josbiker wrote:

josbiker wrote:

Can i print with a FF camera a bigger size and so yes, HOW MUCH BIGGER?

What FF camera? Just because the sensor is FF it does not automatically get you anything. Example, Canon 5D classic and Nikon D700 are full frame but just 12mp. The 16mp Olympus will resolve more detail. Looking at the numbers from the reviews here at DPR, you've got grab a 36 MP Nikon D800 to see any huge jump in resolution.

Olympus OMD 16MP
About 2600 LPH (lines per picture height)

Nikon D7000 16MP DX
About 2600 LPH

Canon 5D- 12MP FX
Horizontal LPH 2300
Vertical LPH 2000

Canon 5D MK II 21MP FX
Horizontal LPH 2800
Vertical LPH 2700

Canon 5D MK II 23MP FX
About 2800 LPH

Nikon D700 12MP FX
Horizontal LPH 2200
Vertical LPH 2200

Nikon D800E 36MP FX
Almost 4000 LPH

*Also note that many lenses will not resolve the maximum possible resolution for a sensor.

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