7D Mirror Shake - w/70-200 f/2.8 - Advice on brace, please

Started Apr 10, 2013 | Discussions
tvstaff
Contributing MemberPosts: 794Gear list
Like?
Re: THANK YOU EVERYONE
In reply to phill104, Apr 10, 2013

Yes it's sculptures and some are under very diverse lighting conditions that require a very steady camera. Even at 2.8 or 1.8 which is my fastest lens any movement will cause blur as I need such fine detail.  Shooting at 1/25 to capture something at dawn or dusk in not uncommon to keep noise low.  If the ISO goes over 640 for me the detail in not what I'm seeking. Even 400 at times for a 8X10 print is hard to mask in Photoshop or Lightroom.

 tvstaff's gear list:tvstaff's gear list
Canon PowerShot G10 Canon EOS 7D Canon EOS-1D X Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM +13 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
tvstaff
Contributing MemberPosts: 794Gear list
Like?
Re: THANK YOU EVERYONE
In reply to TTMartin, Apr 10, 2013

This really is a fine piece of equipment for what I need with the new tripod and mount. Thank you for taking the time to share this with me. I could not find this last night.  Thank you!!!!!

 tvstaff's gear list:tvstaff's gear list
Canon PowerShot G10 Canon EOS 7D Canon EOS-1D X Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM +13 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
tvstaff
Contributing MemberPosts: 794Gear list
Like?
Re: THANK YOU EVERYONE
In reply to phill104, Apr 10, 2013

May ask which Manfrotto gimbal head you're using? Thank you

 tvstaff's gear list:tvstaff's gear list
Canon PowerShot G10 Canon EOS 7D Canon EOS-1D X Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM +13 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
tvstaff
Contributing MemberPosts: 794Gear list
Like?
Re: 7D Mirror Shake - w/70-200 f/2.8 - Advice on brace, please
In reply to tonyjr, Apr 11, 2013

tonyjr wrote:

1st , I use an old bogen tripod I bought for my VHS camera . It ways more than 2 new 'pods .

Raise the ISO . If you have to crank up center column , tripod is to short . My heads have 3 handles - left / right - up / down and angle - more handles = more weight and better control .

High or strong wind for me = older heavy bogen tripod , older steel head

Heads =3038, 3039, 3047, 3055S & 3063 - Q R plate  3049

Bogen long lens support [ 293 I think ] the tripod ring on lens is designed for a few cameras - My 7D or XTI [ both have grips ] is different from say a 5DC without a grip . Throw on my strap - I have both the hand and shoulder on both camera = balancing is hard with the lens ring only . I made a spacer out of PVC pipe so the lens ring and camera grip with the same height . [ 7 D and XTI are different heights and yes I had to buy longer screws ] You can also hang weights from / on camera strap .

2 water bottles that have the plastic thing that holds them together to hang from center post . I also put 2 2 lb ankle weights on the legs of tripod [ hard to do if you have the screw type instead of lever .

I use a remote - either wired or radio - the infrared  built-in - you need to be in front of camera . I seldom use mirror lock up but don't go slower than 1/125 either .

Try to park car / truck to block wind , big rock , tree , wall etc  . Just you standing by camera can divert wind .

Go to a used / 2nd hand store and buy a golf bag with big wheels - easier to drag all the gear than carry it - a good fold up chair also [ but new ]

A bottle of water , coke or even beer - set on ground , then check 4 or 5 minutes later - if it has ripples , ground is vibrating . Put a folded up towel under each leg of tripod . You can also buy little levels level bubbles if one is not built into tripod head .

RCO – PANCAKE = 625 , 3296 for monopod

BTW , if you get ripples in the bottles , generally your IS / OS whatever will work - if it starts hunting - turn back off .

Tony I really like your advice on the weights for the legs no matter how strong the tripod. This also will cause less of a mass for the wind to play with.  The wind is my biggest issue at time.  As other posters have said here the longer plate will stop a lot of the wobble when the camera and lens are bollted together. It cuts my mass by 50% that's huge!

So if you see a guy with an old golf bag on wheels with bottles of beer and a 46lb tripod... You'll know it's me.

 tvstaff's gear list:tvstaff's gear list
Canon PowerShot G10 Canon EOS 7D Canon EOS-1D X Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM +13 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
phill104
Senior MemberPosts: 1,005
Like?
Re: THANK YOU EVERYONE
In reply to tvstaff, Apr 11, 2013

tvstaff wrote:

Yes it's sculptures and some are under very diverse lighting conditions that require a very steady camera. Even at 2.8 or 1.8 which is my fastest lens any movement will cause blur as I need such fine detail.  Shooting at 1/25 to capture something at dawn or dusk in not uncommon to keep noise low.  If the ISO goes over 640 for me the detail in not what I'm seeking. Even 400 at times for a 8X10 print is hard to mask in Photoshop or Lightroom.

I fully understand. Especially in crowded locations where you may need to visit befre the great unwashed arrive to ruin your shots.

To your other question regarding which head from manfrotto I was referring to this one (not a true gimbal but does the same job) - http://www.manfrotto.co.uk/long-lens-monopod-bracket . When fitted to a good tripod it is rock solid especially in the wind where I used it for windsurfing shots. I've since replaced it for a Wimberly gimbal gead which is easier to track moving subjects with but not quite as solid when locked down.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
TTMartin
Senior MemberPosts: 4,728Gear list
Like?
Re: THANK YOU EVERYONE
In reply to phill104, Apr 11, 2013

phill104 wrote:

To your other question regarding which head from manfrotto I was referring to this one (not a true gimbal but does the same job) - http://www.manfrotto.co.uk/long-lens-monopod-bracket . When fitted to a good tripod it is rock solid especially in the wind where I used it for windsurfing shots. I've since replaced it for a Wimberly gimbal gead which is easier to track moving subjects with but not quite as solid when locked down.

Phil I use the same Manfrotto bracket. I modified it slightly. When I got it the bottom seemed wobbly.

So I removed the rubber cover, and saw that there was an allen nut that locks the spacing between the top knob and the tripod mount. You could loosen the allen nut, tighten the top knob down as desired, and then retighten the allen nut.

What I did was just leave the allen nut loose, and then put a rod in the bottom tripod mount part. This way I can ensure the bottom is tight on the tripod, but, still adjust the rotation resistance, or completely lock it down.

Rubber cover removed. Allen wrench loosening allen nut in top knob. Hole in bottom part that mounts to tripod barely visible.

Rubber cover on top knob replaced. Aluminum rod, inserted in existing hole in bottom, tripod mount portion.

edit: not sure if it is just me, but, the pictures don't seem to be loading. The pics are in my gallery, in the Manfrotto 393 modification album.

 TTMartin's gear list:TTMartin's gear list
Canon PowerShot S100 (2000) Canon PowerShot SD1000 Canon EOS 400D Canon EOS 7D Canon EOS M +23 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
CameraCarl
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,017Gear list
Like?
Re: THANK YOU EVERYONE
In reply to tvstaff, Apr 11, 2013

I looked up your tripod and it cost $121 at Walmart. No wonder you get camera shake when you are using it! You need to get a much better quality tripod if you are going to be using it in the conditions you are describing.  You probably do not need a video tripod.  Just get a high quality tripod like a RRS and Gitzo and then get a RRS ball head for it.  You will pay over $1000 but this is a good investment as you will then have a tripod and ball head for life.  Remember that most serious photographers buy/discard one or two cheap tripods before deciding to spend the money on a tripod they can use forever.  Oh yes, and be sure to get a tripod that is tall enough that you will not have to bend over to look through it with out extending the center column.

 CameraCarl's gear list:CameraCarl's gear list
Sony Alpha NEX-6 Canon EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6L IS USM Canon EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM Sony E 16-50mm F3.5-5.6 PZ OSS +1 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
phill104
Senior MemberPosts: 1,005
Like?
Re: THANK YOU EVERYONE
In reply to TTMartin, Apr 11, 2013

Thanks for the tip.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
tonyjr
Veteran MemberPosts: 5,001Gear list
Like?
Re: 7D Mirror Shake - w/70-200 f/2.8 - Advice on brace, please
In reply to tvstaff, Apr 11, 2013

Yea , I am taking pictures , not out there to impress people .

To me the best praise is " would you print that one for me ? "

I also have the top 1/2 of an old bogen monopod that fits nicely in the thing that flag bearers use to carry flag , also good for an umbrella on non windy but sunny days .[ I used the cup holder that clips on car window before I found one ]  Mine is similar to this

http://www.ebay.com/itm/U-S-Civil-War-Black-Leather-Repro-Flag-Staff-Carrier-Belt-Carrying-Sling-Strap-/140917756416?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20cf5a5200

 tonyjr's gear list:tonyjr's gear list
Canon EOS 400D Canon EOS 7D Canon EF 35mm f/2.0 Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM +14 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
birdbrain
Senior MemberPosts: 3,158Gear list
Like?
Re: 7D Mirror Shake .Tripod suggestion.
In reply to tvstaff, Apr 12, 2013

A tripod like this is probably something you could do with:

Gitzo Series 5 Systematic 4 Section Tripod Long

This has no central column, so no wobbly bits, and is high enough for me to use standing up and I am 6ft 2".

It will also go very low as the legs will 'splay' out so you need to lie down to use it, and being 4 section it is very compact when the legs are fully retracted.

They do a three section version of this tripod as well.

Do shop around, I saved hundreds of GB£'s on the RRP by doing that.

Probably the best tripod I have come across. At a demonstration of this tripod a man got beneath a fully extended one, and then holding onto the top of the tripod lifted himself up so the tripod was supporting his weight!

As others have said not cheap though.

I use mine with the Manfrotto gimbal mount 939.

Good luck in your quest and post some images, as I for one would like to see what you do. 

-- hide signature --

Phil
I wondered why the ball kept getting bigger, then it hit me.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/philthebirdbrain/

 birdbrain's gear list:birdbrain's gear list
Sony RX100 II Canon EOS 7D Canon EOS 5D Mark III Canon EOS 6D Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8L II USM +17 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
tvstaff
Contributing MemberPosts: 794Gear list
Like?
Re: 7D Mirror Shake .Tripod suggestion.
In reply to birdbrain, Apr 12, 2013

birdbrain wrote:

A tripod like this is probably something you could do with:

Gitzo Series 5 Systematic 4 Section Tripod Long

This has no central column, so no wobbly bits, and is high enough for me to use standing up and I am 6ft 2".

It will also go very low as the legs will 'splay' out so you need to lie down to use it, and being 4 section it is very compact when the legs are fully retracted.

They do a three section version of this tripod as well.

Do shop around, I saved hundreds of GB£'s on the RRP by doing that.

Probably the best tripod I have come across. At a demonstration of this tripod a man got beneath a fully extended one, and then holding onto the top of the tripod lifted himself up so the tripod was supporting his weight!

As others have said not cheap though.

I use mine with the Manfrotto gimbal mount 939.

Good luck in your quest and post some images, as I for one would like to see what you do. 

-- hide signature --

Phil
I wondered why the ball kept getting bigger, then it hit me.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/philthebirdbrain/

 tvstaff's gear list:tvstaff's gear list
Canon PowerShot G10 Canon EOS 7D Canon EOS-1D X Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM +13 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
myphotographic
Forum MemberPosts: 70
Like?
Re: 7D Mirror Shake - w/70-200 f/2.8 - Advice on brace, please
In reply to tvstaff, Apr 12, 2013

Not so long ago, I went to a talk by this guy, who does a lot of landscapes using telephotos, and he talked about the need for a brace that steadies by the lens and the body, as just the lens ring isn't enough.

I think he name checked this ReallyRightStuff lens support
--
Paul

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Thorbard
Contributing MemberPosts: 671Gear list
Like?
Re: 7D Mirror Shake - w/70-200 f/2.8 - Advice on brace, please
In reply to myphotographic, Apr 12, 2013

myphotographic wrote:

Not so long ago, I went to a talk by this guy, who does a lot of landscapes using telephotos, and he talked about the need for a brace that steadies by the lens and the body, as just the lens ring isn't enough.

I think he name checked this ReallyRightStuff lens support
--
Paul

The linked mount won't support both the lens and the body. What it will support is the lens in two places, a slightly different (and more valid) concept than supporting both the lens and the body.

The mount between the lens and the camera should be pretty solid and accurate, and the camera body weighs relatively little compared to larger lenses.

The ideal is simply to support the lens and camera assembly directly below the centre of gravity. Maybe easier said than done, but with a telephoto, that is going to be forward of the camera lens mount.

 Thorbard's gear list:Thorbard's gear list
Canon PowerShot G15 Canon EOS 7D Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM Canon EF-S 15-85mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM Sigma 18-200mm F3.5-6.3 DC OS HSM +1 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Zee Char
Veteran MemberPosts: 8,184
Like?
Re: 7D Mirror Shake - w/70-200 f/2.8 - Advice on brace, please
In reply to Thorbard, Apr 12, 2013

Thorbard wrote:

myphotographic wrote:

Not so long ago, I went to a talk by this guy, who does a lot of landscapes using telephotos, and he talked about the need for a brace that steadies by the lens and the body, as just the lens ring isn't enough.

I think he name checked this ReallyRightStuff lens support
--
Paul

The linked mount won't support both the lens and the body. What it will support is the lens in two places, a slightly different (and more valid) concept than supporting both the lens and the body.

The mount between the lens and the camera should be pretty solid and accurate, and the camera body weighs relatively little compared to larger lenses.

The ideal is simply to support the lens and camera assembly directly below the centre of gravity. Maybe easier said than done, but with a telephoto, that is going to be forward of the camera lens mount.

Well it appears by the parts list you don't get the foot replacement (curved piece which attaches to the lens) which is good because you can't use that on the 70-200. Good thing as RRS does not give away their stuff. I just checked one of my standard long lens plates and there is no screw on the end to secure Y support so you need to get the package.

IMO that would be overkill for the OP's set up. This rig is for the big Kahuna lenses. I'm looking at my 5D3 and 70-200 and if you use the lens collar the kit is well balanced. I'd save the $230 and invest in a sturdy tripod, ball head and clamp/plate systems first.

Here is a plate for the 70-200 that attaches to the lens collar. It is 2 1/2" long. I measured mine and it is 3 1/2" long. I prefer a longer plate so I just got one for the 300L I think. I have 4 and they are all interchangeable. If you mix and match then I'd call RRS before purchasing - if you go this way.

http://reallyrightstuff.com/ProductDesc.aspx?code=B82&type=0&eq=B82-003&desc=B82%3a-For-Canon-EF-70-200mm%2ff4L&key=ait

List of Canon plates

http://reallyrightstuff.com/Items.aspx?code=LensCanon&key=cat

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Zee Char
Veteran MemberPosts: 8,184
Like?
Re: 7D Mirror Shake - w/70-200 f/2.8 - Advice on brace, please
In reply to Zee Char, Apr 12, 2013

Zee Char wrote:

Thorbard wrote:

myphotographic wrote:

Not so long ago, I went to a talk by this guy, who does a lot of landscapes using telephotos, and he talked about the need for a brace that steadies by the lens and the body, as just the lens ring isn't enough.

I think he name checked this ReallyRightStuff lens support
--
Paul

The linked mount won't support both the lens and the body. What it will support is the lens in two places, a slightly different (and more valid) concept than supporting both the lens and the body.

The mount between the lens and the camera should be pretty solid and accurate, and the camera body weighs relatively little compared to larger lenses.

The ideal is simply to support the lens and camera assembly directly below the centre of gravity. Maybe easier said than done, but with a telephoto, that is going to be forward of the camera lens mount.

Well it appears by the parts list you don't get the foot replacement (curved piece which attaches to the lens) which is good because you can't use that on the 70-200. Good thing as RRS does not give away their stuff. I just checked one of my standard long lens plates and there is no screw on the end to secure Y support so you need to get the package.

IMO that would be overkill for the OP's set up. This rig is for the big Kahuna lenses. I'm looking at my 5D3 and 70-200 and if you use the lens collar the kit is well balanced. I'd save the $230 and invest in a sturdy tripod, ball head and clamp/plate systems first.

Here is a plate for the 70-200 that attaches to the lens collar. It is 2 1/2" long. I measured mine and it is 3 1/2" long. I prefer a longer plate so I just got one for the 300L I think. I have 4 and they are all interchangeable. If you mix and match then I'd call RRS before purchasing - if you go this way.

http://reallyrightstuff.com/ProductDesc.aspx?code=B82&type=0&eq=B82-003&desc=B82%3a-For-Canon-EF-70-200mm%2ff4L&key=ait

List of Canon plates

http://reallyrightstuff.com/Items.aspx?code=LensCanon&key=cat

Here is the plate on my 300 and locking collar.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
tvstaff
Contributing MemberPosts: 794Gear list
Like?
Thank you Zee Char
In reply to Zee Char, Apr 12, 2013

Thank you Zee Char

 tvstaff's gear list:tvstaff's gear list
Canon PowerShot G10 Canon EOS 7D Canon EOS-1D X Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM +13 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
tvstaff
Contributing MemberPosts: 794Gear list
Like?
Re: 7D Mirror Shake - w/70-200 f/2.8 - Advice on brace, please
In reply to Thorbard, Apr 12, 2013

Thorbard wrote:

myphotographic wrote:

Not so long ago, I went to a talk by this guy, who does a lot of landscapes using telephotos, and he talked about the need for a brace that steadies by the lens and the body, as just the lens ring isn't enough.

I think he name checked this ReallyRightStuff lens support
--
Paul

The linked mount won't support both the lens and the body. What it will support is the lens in two places, a slightly different (and more valid) concept than supporting both the lens and the body.

The mount between the lens and the camera should be pretty solid and accurate, and the camera body weighs relatively little compared to larger lenses.

The ideal is simply to support the lens and camera assembly directly below the centre of gravity. Maybe easier said than done, but with a telephoto, that is going to be forward of the camera lens mount.

Yes, this is an issue of balance.  But when the wind blows it's a matter of every piece being rock solid from the lens to the mounts, head and tripod.

Until you try and make a solid platform for outside you never go through this.  It's a lot of work but worth it and you only have to do it once.  In June I'm scheduled to shoot in Aruba for a wind surfing contest. As strong as the winds are it's easy to shoot vs. still-life.

I can't tell everyone how much they helped!  The least I can do is post my new RIG here so everyone can see how they helped put it together!

TVSTAFF

 tvstaff's gear list:tvstaff's gear list
Canon PowerShot G10 Canon EOS 7D Canon EOS-1D X Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM +13 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
myphotographic
Forum MemberPosts: 70
Like?
Re: 7D Mirror Shake - w/70-200 f/2.8 - Advice on brace, please
In reply to Thorbard, Apr 12, 2013

Just checking you were paying attention! Manfrotto do actually do a strange looking device, the 359, that clamps on to a tripod leg and provides a secondary mount for the body. It looks rather unwieldly.

-- hide signature --

Paul

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
phill104
Senior MemberPosts: 1,005
Like?
Re: 7D Mirror Shake - w/70-200 f/2.8 - Advice on brace, please
In reply to tvstaff, Apr 12, 2013

tvstaff wrote:

In June I'm scheduled to shoot in Aruba for a wind surfing contest. As strong as the winds are it's easy to shoot vs. still-life.

TVSTAFF

Now that is my type of photography...

Good luck with that. Windsurfing is my sport. I also run the site www.windsurf.me.uk where there are thousands of windsurfing piccies shot by people who partake over here and a few other countries.

However, one of the best UK windsurf photographers sites is Dave's - http://www.davewhite.me/ where he has some amazing images. Dave White, & John Carter (google him if you do not know his work) provide most of the pics for the UK mags and JC does most for the PWA and when you see their images you can see why.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
tvstaff
Contributing MemberPosts: 794Gear list
Like?
Re: 7D Mirror Shake - w/70-200 f/2.8 - Advice on brace, please
In reply to myphotographic, Apr 12, 2013

myphotographic wrote:

Just checking you were paying attention! Manfrotto do actually do a strange looking device, the 359, that clamps on to a tripod leg and provides a secondary mount for the body. It looks rather unwieldly.

-- hide signature --

Paul

I did. And the site you sent me to has beautiful work.  We're lucky to have so many "good people" here on DPR.

Thank you Paul

 tvstaff's gear list:tvstaff's gear list
Canon PowerShot G10 Canon EOS 7D Canon EOS-1D X Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM +13 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads