7D Mirror Shake - w/70-200 f/2.8 - Advice on brace, please

Started Apr 10, 2013 | Discussions
tvstaff
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7D Mirror Shake - w/70-200 f/2.8 - Advice on brace, please
Apr 10, 2013

I enjoy shooting works of art, many times these objects are outdoors.  Some the best shooting oppty's are in the worst wind conditions OR require a VERY solid platform for the camera and lens so there is no movement even from mirror shake when I have to bracket shots. Some exposures are long.

The 7D as I'm using it now with the 70-200's mount screwed into my tripod seems to move much more than I want. The 70-200 is a balancing act at times and wind or even Mirror shake have been factors.  It's natural I guess based on the size of the lens.

QUESTION:

Is there a brace or plate that others have used that ties a solid pieces of steel to the lens and camaera and then that is mounted on the tripod?

If anyone has experience with this, wouldyou  please let me know the brands so I can create a more solid platform?

THANK YOU,

TVSTAFF

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Zee Char
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Re: 7D Mirror Shake - w/70-200 f/2.8 - Advice on brace, please
In reply to tvstaff, Apr 10, 2013

You ever consider using mirror lockup and a remote switch, wired or not wired? I never bracket but I just tried it and it worked. I have never seen an braces like that but they may exist.

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MarshallG
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Re: 7D Mirror Shake - w/70-200 f/2.8 - Advice on brace, please
In reply to tvstaff, Apr 10, 2013

You could probably go to an automotive machine shop and ask them to fabricate a plate for you, out of steel or anodized aluminum.

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birdbrain
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Re: 7D Mirror Shake - w/70-200 f/2.8 - Advice on brace, please
In reply to tvstaff, Apr 10, 2013

What tripod are you using? Does it have a centre column and is that extended?

I have a Gitzo series 5 tripod which does not have a centre column and that is very sturdy. But even so with a 500 mm lens, plus 1.4x converter and a 7D making 1120 mm equivalent 35mm focal length, with legs fully extended it wobbles, in a wind it shakes. It gets better as you reduce leg length, with no leg extension there is still some slight movement.

So I would first check the stability of your tripod and head, the actual head will play a significant part as well in shake. I doubt a plate as you describe is going to help with tripod / head movement.

If it is just mirror shake you are seeing then live view and remote release would be the way to go.

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phill104
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Re: 7D Mirror Shake - w/70-200 f/2.8 - Advice on brace, please
In reply to tvstaff, Apr 10, 2013

tvstaff wrote:

I enjoy shooting works of art, many times these objects are outdoors.  Some the best shooting oppty's are in the worst wind conditions OR require a VERY solid platform for the camera and lens so there is no movement even from mirror shake when I have to bracket shots. Some exposures are long.

The 7D as I'm using it now with the 70-200's mount screwed into my tripod seems to move much more than I want. The 70-200 is a balancing act at times and wind or even Mirror shake have been factors.  It's natural I guess based on the size of the lens.

QUESTION:

Is there a brace or plate that others have used that ties a solid pieces of steel to the lens and camaera and then that is mounted on the tripod?

If anyone has experience with this, wouldyou  please let me know the brands so I can create a more solid platform?

THANK YOU,

TVSTAFF

If even mirror shake is a problem then you might struggle. Even on the best tripods indoors (I am guessing many of these works of art are indoors) just walking around the floor will vibrate and hence the camera too. Stick your camera on live view zoomed in and walk around and you will see just how much there is. Brace all you want on any tripod and that will still be present albeit slightly reduced.

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Thorbard
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Re: 7D Mirror Shake - w/70-200 f/2.8 - Advice on brace, please
In reply to tvstaff, Apr 10, 2013

tvstaff wrote:

QUESTION:

Is there a brace or plate that others have used that ties a solid pieces of steel to the lens and camaera and then that is mounted on the tripod?

If anyone has experience with this, wouldyou  please let me know the brands so I can create a more solid platform?

THANK YOU,

TVSTAFF

All this brace plate would do is prevent the lens moving relative to the camera. This shouldn't be happening anyway!

It sounds like you need a steadier tripod or tripod head.

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phill104
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Re: 7D Mirror Shake - w/70-200 f/2.8 - Advice on brace, please
In reply to Thorbard, Apr 10, 2013

Thorbard wrote:

tvstaff wrote:

QUESTION:

Is there a brace or plate that others have used that ties a solid pieces of steel to the lens and camaera and then that is mounted on the tripod?

If anyone has experience with this, wouldyou  please let me know the brands so I can create a more solid platform?

THANK YOU,

TVSTAFF

All this brace plate would do is prevent the lens moving relative to the camera. This shouldn't be happening anyway!

It sounds like you need a steadier tripod or tripod head.

I refer the honourable gentleman to my previous statement.

Stick your camera on a beanbag on your nice Oak table in your home zoomed in on live view and simply walk around whilst viewing. The image will wobble more than when it does than when the mirror moves. Platforms such as the aforementioned beanbag/oak table will almost certainly be more steady than even the top tripods, it is the floor that is often the problem. A recent visit to a gallery in London for instance the flooring was click laminate. This is a floating floor so not exactly stable. I cannot see how spending money on a tripod or bracket will help that. I would suggest that in these cases the photographer needs to work with the environment and subject rather than throwing money at it.

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Zee Char
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Re: 7D Mirror Shake - w/70-200 f/2.8 - Advice on brace, please
In reply to birdbrain, Apr 10, 2013

birdbrain wrote:

What tripod are you using? Does it have a centre column and is that extended?

I have a Gitzo series 5 tripod which does not have a centre column and that is very sturdy. But even so with a 500 mm lens, plus 1.4x converter and a 7D making 1120 mm equivalent 35mm focal length, with legs fully extended it wobbles, in a wind it shakes. It gets better as you reduce leg length, with no leg extension there is still some slight movement.

So I would first check the stability of your tripod and head, the actual head will play a significant part as well in shake. I doubt a plate as you describe is going to help with tripod / head movement.

If it is just mirror shake you are seeing then live view and remote release would be the way to go.

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Phil
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Good point. My Gitzo (for travel) had the option of not installing the centre column and I never use it on my bigger tripod.

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Thorbard
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Re: 7D Mirror Shake - w/70-200 f/2.8 - Advice on brace, please
In reply to phill104, Apr 10, 2013

phill104 wrote:

I refer the honourable gentleman to my previous statement.

Stick your camera on a beanbag on your nice Oak table in your home zoomed in on live view and simply walk around whilst viewing. The image will wobble more than when it does than when the mirror moves. Platforms such as the aforementioned beanbag/oak table will almost certainly be more steady than even the top tripods, it is the floor that is often the problem. A recent visit to a gallery in London for instance the flooring was click laminate. This is a floating floor so not exactly stable. I cannot see how spending money on a tripod or bracket will help that. I would suggest that in these cases the photographer needs to work with the environment and subject rather than throwing money at it.

The OP stated he was having issues OUTSIDE.

Yes, inside is a different game with different rules. But in either case, if the camera is moving relative to the tripod, you need a better tripod/head.

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TTMartin
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Re: 7D Mirror Shake - w/70-200 f/2.8 - Advice on brace, please
In reply to tvstaff, Apr 10, 2013

Using mirror lock up will help.

A sturdier tripod will help also.

Get a tripod and tripod head rated for substantially more weight than your camera and lens (I use an Induro AT-413 tripod).

Keep the center column down.

Hang weight off the hook on the bottom of the center column to help dampen vibrations in the tripod (you can use your camera bag, or a sand bag).

http://media.digitalcameraworld.com/files/2012/07/Using_a_tripod_DSLR_tips_DCM111.supp_handheld.hang_.jpg

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phill104
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Re: 7D Mirror Shake - w/70-200 f/2.8 - Advice on brace, please
In reply to Thorbard, Apr 10, 2013

Thorbard wrote:

phill104 wrote:

I refer the honourable gentleman to my previous statement.

Stick your camera on a beanbag on your nice Oak table in your home zoomed in on live view and simply walk around whilst viewing. The image will wobble more than when it does than when the mirror moves. Platforms such as the aforementioned beanbag/oak table will almost certainly be more steady than even the top tripods, it is the floor that is often the problem. A recent visit to a gallery in London for instance the flooring was click laminate. This is a floating floor so not exactly stable. I cannot see how spending money on a tripod or bracket will help that. I would suggest that in these cases the photographer needs to work with the environment and subject rather than throwing money at it.

The OP stated he was having issues OUTSIDE.

Yes, inside is a different game with different rules. But in either case, if the camera is moving relative to the tripod, you need a better tripod/head.

I read it a a mixture of both. I agree with your comments on the whole but often think people (myself included) miss the simple solutions

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elfroggio
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Re: 7D Mirror Shake - w/70-200 f/2.8 - Advice on brace, please
In reply to tvstaff, Apr 10, 2013

tvstaff wrote:

The 7D as I'm using it now with the 70-200's mount screwed into my tripod seems to move much more than I want. The 70-200 is a balancing act at times and wind or even Mirror shake have been factors.  It's natural I guess based on the size of the lens.

Are you sure that it's the mirror shake. I had problem with mine and I found that I was causing the shake by pressing the shutter. Switching to an infrared switch solved my problems.

Wind is more dependent on the quality of the head than anything else. I upgraded to a "cheap-good" head a Sirui. Cheap, very strong but "quirky".

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tvstaff
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THANK YOU EVERYONE
In reply to Thorbard, Apr 10, 2013

Tore my Dolica ZX600B300 Proline ZX Series 60-Inch Carbon Fiber Tripod apart to see what's loose and everything seems tight,  It's seem more the balance of the camera with the lens.

I will admit, this is NOT a great tripod.

I am using a wired realease so it's not me touching the camera, tried the bag tied to center and the wind thinks I'm a "Sail Boat"

Anyway..... I'm going to take the advice of ALL if not most you good folks and buy a MUCH better tripod and head and have a mounting plate that is larger than the piece on the 70-200.

I'm looking at tripods and heads and quality stuff will cost about $1200.00 for rock solid tripod and head and extended plate.

Anyone who has advice on the head or adapters to buy please let me know as I don't want to do this again!

Also, looking at B&H photo and others. The video tripods vs DSLR look so much better built and ROCK solid.   Wonder if I should consider this if I don't mind lugging around a HUGE piece of equipment??????

Thank you,

TVSTAFF

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TTMartin
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Re: THANK YOU EVERYONE
In reply to tvstaff, Apr 10, 2013

tvstaff wrote:

Tore my Dolica ZX600B300 Proline ZX Series 60-Inch Carbon Fiber Tripod apart to see what's loose and everything seems tight,  It's seem more the balance of the camera with the lens.

I will admit, this is NOT a great tripod.

I am using a wired realease so it's not me touching the camera, tried the bag tied to center and the wind thinks I'm a "Sail Boat"

Anyway..... I'm going to take the advice of ALL if not most you good folks and buy a MUCH better tripod and head and have a mounting plate that is larger than the piece on the 70-200.

I'm looking at tripods and heads and quality stuff will cost about $1200.00 for rock solid tripod and head and extended plate.

Anyone who has advice on the head or adapters to buy please let me know as I don't want to do this again!

Also, looking at B&H photo and others. The video tripods vs DSLR look so much better built and ROCK solid.   Wonder if I should consider this if I don't mind lugging around a HUGE piece of equipment??????

Thank you,

TVSTAFF

I highly recommend the Induro AT-413.

Induro AT-413
Material - Aluminum Alloy
Maximum Load - 44 lb (20 kg)
Max Height (24° Leg Angle) w/Column Extended - 72.5 in (1842 mm)
Max Height (24° Leg Angle) w/Column Retracted - 67.5 in (1715 mm)
Min Height (24° Leg Angle) w/Column Retracted - 27.1 in (687 mm)
Min Height (80° Leg Angle) w/Short Column - 8.3 in (210 mm)
Folded Length - 30.1 in (765 mm)
Number of Leg Sections - 3
Leg Lock Type - Moisture and dust-resistant locking grips
Independent Leg Spread - Yes, with three position stops
Center Column - Grooved-Rapid
Spiked Feet - Removable - Included
Head Mount Thread Size - 1/4"-20 & 3/8"-16
Weight - 7.1 lbs (3.2 kg)

Induro AT413 Mini Review

edit: and the best part is the price $217 at Amazon (Induro Alloy 8M Tripod AT-413 (Black))

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phill104
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Re: THANK YOU EVERYONE
In reply to tvstaff, Apr 10, 2013

tvstaff wrote:

Tore my Dolica ZX600B300 Proline ZX Series 60-Inch Carbon Fiber Tripod apart to see what's loose and everything seems tight,  It's seem more the balance of the camera with the lens.

I will admit, this is NOT a great tripod.

I am using a wired realease so it's not me touching the camera, tried the bag tied to center and the wind thinks I'm a "Sail Boat"

Anyway..... I'm going to take the advice of ALL if not most you good folks and buy a MUCH better tripod and head and have a mounting plate that is larger than the piece on the 70-200.

I'm looking at tripods and heads and quality stuff will cost about $1200.00 for rock solid tripod and head and extended plate.

Anyone who has advice on the head or adapters to buy please let me know as I don't want to do this again!

Also, looking at B&H photo and others. The video tripods vs DSLR look so much better built and ROCK solid.   Wonder if I should consider this if I don't mind lugging around a HUGE piece of equipment??????

Thank you,

TVSTAFF

I know what you mean re the wind but in my case usually I need the weight just to stop all my kit blowing away. Fortunately, the type of shots I take in these conditions are of windsurfing so outdoors with a high shutter speed. The light may be poor especially when it is chucking it down but in those conditions I do not mind going to a high ISO.

Just out of interest, what are you shooting that needs such long exposures (and what is long)? Outdoors I am having to guess it is some sort of sculptures etc?

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Zee Char
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Re: THANK YOU EVERYONE
In reply to tvstaff, Apr 10, 2013

tvstaff wrote:

Tore my Dolica ZX600B300 Proline ZX Series 60-Inch Carbon Fiber Tripod apart to see what's loose and everything seems tight,  It's seem more the balance of the camera with the lens.

I will admit, this is NOT a great tripod.

I am using a wired realease so it's not me touching the camera, tried the bag tied to center and the wind thinks I'm a "Sail Boat"

Anyway..... I'm going to take the advice of ALL if not most you good folks and buy a MUCH better tripod and head and have a mounting plate that is larger than the piece on the 70-200.

I'm looking at tripods and heads and quality stuff will cost about $1200.00 for rock solid tripod and head and extended plate.

Anyone who has advice on the head or adapters to buy please let me know as I don't want to do this again!

Also, looking at B&H photo and others. The video tripods vs DSLR look so much better built and ROCK solid.   Wonder if I should consider this if I don't mind lugging around a HUGE piece of equipment??????

Thank you,

TVSTAFF

I went with a Markins ball head and RRS clamp/plate systems. For my local big tripod I purchased the biggest ball head they had. In combination with RRS I can quickly clamp the gear on. They sell plates that fit into the lens collar as well. You can go with Arca Swiss which is was I believe the the original of better known at  one time and Kirk clamps/plates.

You won't need this but I was able to adapt my BR double strap to quickly disconnect and go right to tripod by getting 1" Kirk clamps form B&H and secured the BR connector with Loctite. Just wanted to show the possibilities with that those systems. I love em.

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TTMartin
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Re: THANK YOU EVERYONE
In reply to tvstaff, Apr 10, 2013

You talked about the camera not being balanced when using the lens ring tripod mount. You might consider an adjustable rail type mount like the Manfrotto 357PL.

http://static.bhphoto.com/images/images1000x1000/554151.jpg

Note: one of the large extra screws and one of the small extra screws, store on the side of the mount.

Manfrotto also offers a 357LONG rail that fits in the mount. This may be what you were thinking about originally. I don't think the intent is to mount it both to the lens and the camera, but, to allow more fore and aft adjustablity. But, if you wanted to mount it to both the camera and tripod ring, I don't see a reason that you couldn't.

http://static.bhphoto.com/images/images500x500/241158.jpg

edit: I'm assuming the scale on the side is in mm, which would make the 357LONG about 7.5 inches long.

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phill104
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Re: THANK YOU EVERYONE
In reply to TTMartin, Apr 10, 2013

That is the same mounting I have on my Manfrotto gimbal head and it has to be said it is rock solid.

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tonyjr
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Re: 7D Mirror Shake - w/70-200 f/2.8 - Advice on brace, please
In reply to tvstaff, Apr 10, 2013

1st , I use an old bogen tripod I bought for my VHS camera . It ways more than 2 new 'pods .

Raise the ISO . If you have to crank up center column , tripod is to short . My heads have 3 handles - left / right - up / down and angle - more handles = more weight and better control .

High or strong wind for me = older heavy bogen tripod , older steel head

Heads =3038, 3039, 3047, 3055S & 3063 - Q R plate  3049

Bogen long lens support [ 293 I think ] the tripod ring on lens is designed for a few cameras - My 7D or XTI [ both have grips ] is different from say a 5DC without a grip . Throw on my strap - I have both the hand and shoulder on both camera = balancing is hard with the lens ring only . I made a spacer out of PVC pipe so the lens ring and camera grip with the same height . [ 7 D and XTI are different heights and yes I had to buy longer screws ] You can also hang weights from / on camera strap .

2 water bottles that have the plastic thing that holds them together to hang from center post . I also put 2 2 lb ankle weights on the legs of tripod [ hard to do if you have the screw type instead of lever .

I use a remote - either wired or radio - the infrared  built-in - you need to be in front of camera . I seldom use mirror lock up but don't go slower than 1/125 either .

Try to park car / truck to block wind , big rock , tree , wall etc  . Just you standing by camera can divert wind .

Go to a used / 2nd hand store and buy a golf bag with big wheels - easier to drag all the gear than carry it - a good fold up chair also [ but new ]

A bottle of water , coke or even beer - set on ground , then check 4 or 5 minutes later - if it has ripples , ground is vibrating . Put a folded up towel under each leg of tripod . You can also buy little levels level bubbles if one is not built into tripod head .

RCO – PANCAKE = 625 , 3296 for monopod

BTW , if you get ripples in the bottles , generally your IS / OS whatever will work - if it starts hunting - turn back off .

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birdbrain
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Re: THANK YOU EVERYONE
In reply to TTMartin, Apr 10, 2013

That Manfrotto plate is the same one I have on my gimbal head and ball head, its one of their hydrostatic ball heads seems to work OK.

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