Apple craps are way overpriced

Started Apr 9, 2013 | Discussions
Jim Cockfield
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$1139 brand new
In reply to DVT80111, Apr 14, 2013

DVT80111 wrote:

My wife is asking for an Apple Macbook. She has been using her iPad3 to do iMovie edition, and she has outgrown its capability.

The cheapest Macbook Pro with an i5 core, Intel graphic, 1280x800 resolution, 4GB of ram, 4.5 lbs is $1099 refurb price.

http://store.apple.com/us/product/FD101LL/A/refurbished-macbook-pro-25ghz-dual-core-intel-i5?afid=p231%7Ccamref%3AikL5&cid=AOS-US-AFF-PHG

You can get one of those for $1139 brand new from newegg.com right now.  Scroll down on their latest e-mail specials page, and you'll find one that has a promo code for $60 off the $1199 retail price right this minute.

http://promotions.newegg.com/neemail/latest/index-landing.aspx?cm_sp=emailsub-_-homepage-_-promo#EL

I can get a new Window ultrabook for less than $800, and she can use Adobe Premier.

Yea... but, look at the cost of the software; and look at the build quality of the hardware, ports it's equipped with, etc.

I'm not a huge Apple fan anymore (although I was in 1980s).  I used Apple II+ and Apple IIe machines many years ago and thought they were "worth their weight in gold" at the time.  They were tremendous values for what they were able to do, saving so much time istwas absolutely amazing (compared to using a calculator and typewriter to perform the same tasks).  Time changes. 

But, Apple priced themselves out of the market, and I built an "IBM Compatible PC" machine myself to get a better price/performance ratio after I got tired to swapping floppies; buying a case, PSU, motherboard, 5MB (not GB) Seagate drive, 640KB of memory, Hercules Compatible Mono graphics card, clock/calendar card, etc. -- and I've stayed with Intel based machines since then.

But, the lower end MacBook Pro models are not bad at all, judging from what most reviewers think of them; and Apple has been more competitive in that niche lately.

So, if your wife wants one, and you have the budget, I'd just get her what she wants, as the learning curve moving from something like iMovie to another video editor is likely to be significant.

If budget won't support a new MacBook Pro model, then look at older used/refurbished machines instead.  For example, I see some models using dual core processors with discrete graphics chipsets (Nvidia 330M, etc.) for a lot less right this minute when looking at refurbished listings at vendors like newegg. So, for some video editing tasks, that may work OK (Core 2 Duo with Nvidia 330M video chipset).

But, given the cost of a new machine (only a bit over $1k right now for a nicely equipped MacBook Pro with a Core i5 3xxx CPU, 4GB of DDR3, 500GB Drive, and plenty of ports), I'd probably got that route instead.

But she wants iMovie, sh.

She's already using it, and the learning curve to switch to another product would likely be significant for a user that's not really tech savvy.   So, I'd save her the time and frustration of learning a different product and just get what she wants if budget permits.

Thankfully, my wife is easy to please.  She's currently using a Dell Inspiron 1720 Laptop we bought in refurbished condition from Dell Outlet approx. 5 years ago (using coupon codes for even more off, of course).   It came with Vista on it. But, I installed Linux in a dual boot config, and the latest I upgraded her Linux install, I wiped the drive (since Vista was just wasting space), and Linux have all of the space.

That works great for her needs, with it setup to Firefox, Chrome and Opera for web browsing, LibreOffice for docs and spreadsheets, VLC for media playback, Skype for Video calls, etc. etc. etc.

Thankfully, she's not into video editing yet.  But, if she was, I'd probably just install Kdenlive and OpenShot (both free) for her to test drive.  Given the demands of video editing on CPU/GPU resources, I'd probably need to upgrade her to a newer laptop model though.  Darn it.. they should last more than 5 years or so before I need to upgrade. 

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erichK
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Re: $1139 brand new
In reply to Jim Cockfield, Apr 15, 2013

Jim Cockfield wrote:

I'm not a huge Apple fan anymore (although I was in 1980s).  I used Apple II+ and Apple IIe machines many years ago and thought they were "worth their weight in gold" at the time.  They were tremendous values for what they were able to do, saving so much time istwas absolutely amazing (compared to using a calculator and typewriter to perform the same tasks).  Time changes. 

I started long before that, in the bad old days of mainfarame and mini computers, then PC's and had a wonderful experience with Amigas, when they came out with not only a full colour, dual GUI but and elegant and efficient unix kernel base OS that allowed pre-emptive multi-tasking and simultaneous command-line and graphic interface use...in 1985.  It took both Apple and PC's more than another decade to match that, though of course you could always do something similar if you rolled your own on Unix machines like the Alpha micro of Sun Solaris-based systems.

Interestingly, this is a market in which Steve Jobs failed to really gain a foothold in, with his Next Unix-based system, but I suspect that that Unix experience had a lot to do with MacOSX, which had a lot to do with the revolutionary new product line that of which the MacBook Pro (and its Air spin-offs were/are the greatest successes.

But, Apple priced themselves out of the market, and I built an "IBM Compatible PC" machine myself to get a better price/performance ratio after I got tired to swapping floppies; buying a case, PSU, motherboard, 5MB (not GB) Seagate drive, 640KB of memory, Hercules Compatible Mono graphics card, clock/calendar card, etc. -- and I've stayed with Intel based machines since then.

I had a somewhat similar experience keeping a PowerMac "Sawtooth" we bought in 2000 going for a decade, because it was the basis of my musician wife's Pro Tools composition and music- editing system, and also became increasingly disgusted with Apple's manipulative ways of cutting off backward-compatibility, that eventually made it impossible to use her whole Pro-tools system.

But, the lower end MacBook Pro models are not bad at all, judging from what most reviewers think of them; and Apple has been more competitive in that niche lately.

I did buy a MBP, in large part because I noted that at the national  meetings of Engineers Canada,  which I was occasionally attended, most of the presenters - often heads of Engineering faculties - used MacBook Pros.  These people certainly knew how to use computers and could likely have brought any laptop they wanted. They told me that they found it to be the best tool for the job. It worked well for me until I was dealing with close to 100K of digital RAW and jpg images and Colour Management of large prints on a large monitor.  That particular model had a problem GPU (also used by other makers..but Apple was the last to admiit this and extend warranties) so I that was the start of moving my processing to a six-core PC system, which I'd always run as a paprellel image backup.

However, as stated earlier, my very talented wife does all her own full colour posters, websits, audio-editing andaudio and video clips and sample CD's on an older 21' iMac pro, and also digitized and edited over a hundred hours of Hi-8 family/travel videos on it withy absolutely no problem.

So, very likely, a medium-range MacBookPro would indeed be the best tool for the job described by the OP.  Sounds like his wife - just like mine - is a very creative and productive person eager to continue and expand her capabilities.  Mac excels at that.

If her productions reach a point where she will need the additional tools and capabilities that are more easily available on PC's, then she'll likely start moving to one.

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erichK
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DVT80111
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Re: $1139 brand new
In reply to erichK, Apr 16, 2013

very persuasive but I think iMovie won't take her very far. If she want to advance,  she ought to learn how to use Adobe Premier even on a Mac.

OK. I have watched some tutorial on youtube, Premier is not that difficult. It is a little intimidate and confusing with so many menus and functions at first.

I just bought a tutorial DVD on eBay. I will learn it first then teach her.

Will see.

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rhit
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Re: $1139 brand new
In reply to DVT80111, Apr 16, 2013

The progression would be:

  1. iMovie (iPad)
  2. iMovie (Mac)
  3. iMovie + Garageband (Mac)
  4. Final Cut Pro (Mac)
  5. Final Cut Pro + Logic Pro (Mac)

And, if none of that cuts it, you can still get her Adobe Premier.

Additionally, she can always take her laptop to an Apple Store for help from Creatives.  And, if that's not enough, I believe she can buy personal tutoring for longer periods and deeper topics from Creatives.

It's a complete package.

I used to be an Apple Genius and swore by Apple prodcuts.  I now use Windows 7 and build my own PCs.  But, I give Apple where credit is due.  If she enjoys her iPad, and iMovie, why separate her from what she's comfortable with?

Shell out a little more and give her the peace of mind of a continuity of a platform she's familiar with as well as available free support.

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JamieTux
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Re: Don't buy her an ultrabook!
In reply to erichK, Apr 16, 2013

Hey Eric,

I use Apple and Windows and in terms of anything other than resolution I am far happier with the Sony Z range than the Mac equivalents - they have wider gamut, they weight less and are slightly smaller and they are just as robust and the battery lasts as long.

They are not any cheaper though!

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Abrak
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Re: Don't buy her an ultrabook!
In reply to JamieTux, Apr 16, 2013

JamieTux wrote:

Hey Eric,

I use Apple and Windows and in terms of anything other than resolution I am far happier with the Sony Z range than the Mac equivalents - they have wider gamut, they weight less and are slightly smaller and they are just as robust and the battery lasts as long.

They are not any cheaper though!

....And they dont make them anymore....

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digitalshooter
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Recent convert
In reply to rhit, Apr 16, 2013

My main PC is an HP.  Recently a second hand iPAD feel into my hands.  WOW how convenient and easy.  Again, 2 iMacs came our way from my wife's boss.  (They updated at work)

Again, all I can say is wow and how easy Apple has made it.  One example is a printer installation, very simple on an Apple.  PC has a long way to go.

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Richard
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Re: Recent convert
In reply to digitalshooter, Apr 16, 2013

digitalshooter wrote:

My main PC is an HP.  Recently a second hand iPAD feel into my hands.  WOW how convenient and easy.  Again, 2 iMacs came our way from my wife's boss.  (They updated at work)

Again, all I can say is wow and how easy Apple has made it.  One example is a printer installation, very simple on an Apple.  PC has a long way to go.

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Digitalshooter
PS: all posts are just my opinion!

I have never had a problem installing a printer on windows. I buy printer, follow the instructions on how to install the driver. It works. Guess I don't see what is so hard.

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JamieTux
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Re: Don't buy her an ultrabook!
In reply to Abrak, Apr 16, 2013

I thought that last year then they arrived on the scene again - they seem to be a summer thing

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gs85739az
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Re: Apple craps are way overpriced
In reply to DVT80111, Apr 16, 2013

Stop arguing about mac vs pc:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSt5jxQc5eg

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erichK
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Update on ultrabook!
In reply to JamieTux, Apr 16, 2013

I have traded in the Windows 8 Toshiba 930-10 for the Windows 7 930-01 and $200+taxes back.   The basic Windows 7 engine is indeed slightly slower, but much cleaner.  Frankly, MS's clumsy attempt to outflash Apple with endless eyecandy is a real PITA to anyone with even minimal computer skills actually wants to use a computer to get work done.

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erichK
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digitalshooter
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Good for you (nt)
In reply to Richard, Apr 16, 2013
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MtnGoatJoe
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Re: Good for you (nt)
In reply to digitalshooter, Apr 16, 2013

If you're not comfortable supporting a Mac, I would try to compromise. Buy her the Mac but make her promise to try Google or the Mac store when she has a question or problem. This should actually lower your support requirements compared to a PC.

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erichK
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Re: Object to your title!
In reply to DVT80111, Apr 17, 2013

There's no reason to call Apple products "cr*p".  The millions of people who buy them aren't all idiots, and I know top engineers who use MPB's alongside PC and Unix systems and a guy who made his fortune in PC's who, now retired, uses Macs.

There have been some poor products from Apple and some mis-steps.  iPhones, for example, were hard to survice until the iPhone  5, and their cheaper products tend to be throwaways (sound familiar?  Just like Sony?).

There also are many very well-made and -sometimes superbly-designed Apple products.  I can't help but notice, for example, how much better-made and more-pleasant-to-use the MBP I managed to get for about $1200 (London Drug closeout of last year's i7 model) is than the Toshiba 930-01 which I managed to get for $800 in a similar deal (because it is half the weight and somewhat user-servicable, and because Windows 7 (NOT 8!!!) is a workable OS.)

Ergonomics is all about the way a commodity is more than the sum of its parts and works as an integrated product.  Steve Jobs was obsessive about this, and MBP's, especially, still tend to benefit from this.  As, very likely, will "your" wife, if her main goal is to make movies rather than to learn about hardware and software.

Our daughter, who is just finishing her second year of law school did pass on her MBP to her fellow-law-student partner because, as an 80+ WPM touch-typist she found the "Thinkpad" based Lenovo keyboard better.  It was a better tool for her constant note-taking.  But this hardly make MBP's "craps"

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erichK
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Photography is a small voice, at best, but sometimes one photograph, or a group of them, can lure our sense of awareness.
- W. Eugene Smith, Dec 30, 1918 to Oct 15, 1978.
http://erichk.zenfolio.com/
http://www.fototime.com/inv/7F3D846BCD301F3
underwater photos:
http://www.scubaboard.com/gallery/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/5567

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estherlee
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Re: Apple craps are way overpriced
In reply to DVT80111, Apr 18, 2013

DVT80111 wrote:


I can get a new Window ultrabook for less than $800, and she can use Adobe Premier.

But she wants iMovie, sh.

YES, I believe to convince to release a new machine is as hard as to convince your wife to move to Premier. For me, Premier is a very complicated software to use and not to mention windows is not as reliable as mac osx. iMovie is so easy to use. spent me 1 hour to learn all the functions that I need.

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nofumble
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iPad is a gateway to Mac addiction
In reply to DVT80111, Apr 25, 2013
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turbsy
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Re: iPad is a gateway to Mac addiction
In reply to nofumble, Apr 25, 2013

Macs are not crap far from it.  But they are overpriced and in my mind not worth the price.  I have heared that they have resale but not where I liv. And trying to sell an obsolete laptop is a pain.

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Jim Cockfield
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PC versus Mac Home Movie (using iMovie on a Mac)
In reply to DVT80111, Apr 26, 2013

DVT80111 wrote:

My wife is asking for an Apple Macbook. She has been using her iPad3 to do iMovie edition, and she has outgrown its capability.

The cheapest Macbook Pro with an i5 core, Intel graphic, 1280x800 resolution, 4GB of ram, 4.5 lbs is $1099 refurb price.

http://store.apple.com/us/product/FD101LL/A/refurbished-macbook-pro-25ghz-dual-core-intel-i5?afid=p231%7Ccamref%3AikL5&cid=AOS-US-AFF-PHG

I can get a new Window ultrabook for less than $800, and she can use Adobe Premier.

But she wants iMovie, sh.

Yea... But, from everything I can see about it, iMovie is very easy to use, and moving from an iPad to a Macbook Pro would give her more power and features, without a significant learning curve.   iMovie on a Mac does look to be very easy to use with the features that she'd probably need.

http://www.apple.com/ilife/imovie/

The results may also be much better, as compared to trying to learn how to use something like Adobe Premiere instead.

Here's a "comparison" that you may or may not find entertaining. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=fN_Y6yyqvS8

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