Feeling jipped with D600 39-pt AF?

Started Apr 8, 2013 | Discussions
RhysM
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Re: So, you don't even own a d600...
In reply to paulski66, Apr 9, 2013

paulski66 wrote:

RhysM wrote:

paulski66 wrote:

RhysM wrote:

I'm pretty sure i will never need to do over 90mph in a car, though if i spent a boat load of money on a Porsche i wouldn't be happy if it was limited to 100mph.  Firstly it's called human nature and secondly, part of quality is over-engineering, people take comfort in knowing the limits of the objects they own FAR exceed their needs.

Wow...

My Honda CR-V doesn't have a third row of seats. Other Hondas do; the Odyssey has a third row of seats. But damn it, my CR-V doesn't.

Those bastards. How dare they not over-engineer my car...

My condolences to hear you own a Honda.

200,000+ miles and it's paid in full.

Honestly, I would never own another brand. I had a Subaru before this, and while I loved it (despite it, too, not having a third row of seats), I put ~$500-$1,000 per year I owned it, and then the engine died after 6 years.

Paid less for the Honda, and other than oil changes and brakes, the thing is practically maintenance free.

I've owned various performance vehicles, all have had had numerous problems. But i still like saying i drive a BMW/Audi/Porsche and like the fact they faster and handle, better, way better than my driving skills/public roads could ever truly take advantage of.

Logic would dictate that a car is a mode of transport, a tool, purely utilitarian and if i had any sense i'd swap it for a small engined, reliable run around. But then we aren't logical and we often want things that on paper exceed our needs, though we know we will rarely, if ever use their full potential.

Again, human nature, a D600 would probably meet my needs but a D800 would exceed them, and a lot of people take comfort in that fact.

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paulski66
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Re: So, you don't even own a d600...
In reply to RhysM, Apr 9, 2013

RhysM wrote:

I've owned various performance vehicles, all have had had numerous problems. But i still like saying i drive a BMW/Audi/Porsche and like the fact they faster and handle, better, way better than my driving skills/public roads could ever truly take advantage of.

Logic would dictate that a car is a mode of transport, a tool, purely utilitarian and if i had any sense i'd swap it for a small engined, reliable run around. But then we aren't logical and we often want things that on paper exceed our needs, though we know we will rarely, if ever use their full potential.

Again, human nature, a D600 would probably meet my needs but a D800 would exceed them, and a lot of people take comfort in that fact.

I can agree with all of this (though with 5 kids and no real jones for automobiles - I commute 2 hours a day and want something reliable and inexpensive - I would never spend that kind of money on a car), but I imagine you wouldn't buy a Honda and complain that it doesn't perform like your Porche.

The d600 is in no way a crippled camera.

Anyway, d600, d800...enjoy whichever it is that you end up getting.

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chlamchowder
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Re: somewhat
In reply to sd40, Apr 9, 2013

Am I correct to say that for those of us who don't use auto iso this should not be an issue. I always set my iso manually.

Or you could turn it around and say that for those of us who don't constantly need to know how much space is left on the card this is not an issue.

This was the point of my question--as an Auto ISO user I don't want to give up knowing the actual ISO that Auto ISO chooses at any given moment, but cards have so much capacity these days that the remaining number of images is not something I always need to know.

It's still a very big issue when setting the ISO manually. Before I take the shot, I often glance at the corner of the finder to confirm the ISO setting. Before, with my Sony a580, I would sometimes have the ISO set at some ridiculously high value from shooting in the dark earlier, and then forget to set it back when moving into better light. That doesn't really happen now that I always have the ISO value displayed with the D600.

So yes, it could be a non-issue if you confirm your ISO value before half pressing the shutter button, and don't mind giving up the frame count display. But more info in the finder is always better, in my opinion...especially if it doesn't clutter the view (which it doesn't because its on the bottom info bar)

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oklaphotog
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Re: somewhat
In reply to chlamchowder, Apr 9, 2013

chlamchowder wrote:

It's still a very big issue when setting the ISO manually. Before I take the shot, I often glance at the corner of the finder to confirm the ISO setting. Before, with my Sony a580, I would sometimes have the ISO set at some ridiculously high value from shooting in the dark earlier, and then forget to set it back when moving into better light. That doesn't really happen now that I always have the ISO value displayed with the D600.

So yes, it could be a non-issue if you confirm your ISO value before half pressing the shutter button, and don't mind giving up the frame count display. But more info in the finder is always better, in my opinion...especially if it doesn't clutter the view (which it doesn't because its on the bottom info bar)

I guess it's habit from all of my years of shooting film.... But the first thing I do when turning the camera on is look at the display and check what ISO I have set and if there is a CF card in the body. Then I check my exposure and focus modes.... all before the camera even reaches my eye to shoot with. I think most advanced shooters always pre-check their settings before use, so maybe that is why Nikon designed the VF display like they did since this is usually done using the external lcd's.

As far as not having frame count in the VF, I don't think this is a problem anymore. With film, it was a necessity. Since most people are using 16gb and bigger cards, you can shoot a long time, even in raw... And it takes a fraction of a second to glance at the cameras top LCD if you really need to know.

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ultimitsu
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Re: Feeling jipped with D600 39-pt AF?
In reply to RhysM, Apr 9, 2013

RhysM wrote:

Nope, still agonising.

I am going on holiday in 3 weeks and want at least a week with the camera before, so will probably order something over the weekend.

I'm probably going to go for the D600 and let my logical side decide that it is capable for everything i need. I don't care about the megapixels but my gadget freak side is bothered by the AF system and may convince me that if spending £3000 on a camera plus lenses + accessories i might as well spend £3500 and get the D800.

Dont buy D600. Go buy a D5200, it is cheap and it has similar AF as D600, and and 24mp sensor similar to D7100, it must be as good as D600 right?

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ultimitsu
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Re: Feeling jipped with D600 39-pt AF?
In reply to RhysM, Apr 9, 2013

RhysM wrote:

What is really needed, as has been said countless time before is a D700 body and all its specs with the D600 sensor.

Adjust inflation it will be 3k, you keen?

Not really that much to ask.

not for 3k.

Nikon could still have made/marketed the D800 for the hi-res freaks out there.

It is called 5D3.

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jfriend00
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Re: Feeling jipped with D600 39-pt AF?
In reply to ultimitsu, Apr 9, 2013

ultimitsu wrote:

RhysM wrote:

What is really needed, as has been said countless time before is a D700 body and all its specs with the D600 sensor.

Adjust inflation it will be 3k, you keen?

What inflation?

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ultimitsu
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Re: Feeling jipped with D600 39-pt AF?
In reply to jfriend00, Apr 9, 2013

jfriend00 wrote:

ultimitsu wrote:

RhysM wrote:

What is really needed, as has been said countless time before is a D700 body and all its specs with the D600 sensor.

Adjust inflation it will be 3k, you keen?

What inflation?

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/inflation-cpi

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RhysM
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Re: Feeling jipped with D600 39-pt AF?
In reply to jfriend00, Apr 9, 2013

jfriend00 wrote:

ultimitsu wrote:

RhysM wrote:

What is really needed, as has been said countless time before is a D700 body and all its specs with the D600 sensor.

Adjust inflation it will be 3k, you keen?

What inflation?

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What the hell are you going on about? If they made a D700 with a 24mp sensor it would be priced between the D600 and D800. What has inflation got to do with it?

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Daniel Lauring
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Re: Feeling jipped with D600 39-pt AF?
In reply to eNo, Apr 9, 2013

No more than the D7100 folks should feel jipped with their APSC sized sensors.

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RhysM
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Re: Feeling jipped with D600 39-pt AF?
In reply to Daniel Lauring, Apr 9, 2013

Daniel Lauring wrote:

No more than the D7100 folks should feel jipped with their APSC sized sensors.

That's a silly comparison. A DX sensor is a choice and has its own advantages for certain users such as extra "reach" for wildlife photographers, smaller lenses for D3XXX type customers... I can't think of any reason why a slower less accurate AF system could advantage any user.

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Daniel Lauring
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Re: Feeling jipped with D600 39-pt AF?
In reply to RhysM, Apr 9, 2013

RhysM wrote:

Daniel Lauring wrote:

No more than the D7100 folks should feel jipped with their APSC sized sensors.

That's a silly comparison. A DX sensor is a choice and has its own advantages for certain users such as extra "reach" for wildlife photographers, smaller lenses for D3XXX type customers... I can't think of any reason why a slower less accurate AF system could advantage any user.

The point is you are trading off one feature for another.  The D600 is relatively decontented to offer FX IQ at a DX price.  The D7100 is really expensive compared to the D3200 yet the IQ is about equal. You are paying for the features...the focus, etc.  It's apples and oranges.

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eNo
eNo
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Re: Feeling jipped with D600 39-pt AF?
In reply to paulski66, Apr 10, 2013

paulski66 wrote:

RhysM wrote:

But instead of crippling the D600 to separate it from the D800, why not improve the D800? Create a 61 point AF system like Canon has for the 5D MKIII, make it sync at 1/500, etc

So, they're going to retroactively do this for a camera that has been on the market for 6 months?

Should they recall all of the d800s they have already released, and retrofit those at no cost to the consumers? Because you know all of the early adopters will howl if suddenly their d800s are "weaker" in specifcation to the newer ones rolling off the line.

Of course, you do realize there's another possibility, right? Nikon isn't painted into an unescapable corner, right? D810 with AF as the other guy says, D600 with 51-pt AF module. Actually, now that the D7100 is out, the latter case seems like *the* unescapable corner, don't it?

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JimPearce
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Politically incorrect stereotyping...
In reply to jnk, Apr 10, 2013

Are all Roma swindlers?

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chlamchowder
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Re: somewhat
In reply to oklaphotog, Apr 10, 2013

I guess it's habit from all of my years of shooting film.... But the first thing I do when turning the camera on is look at the display and check what ISO I have set and if there is a CF card in the body. Then I check my exposure and focus modes.... all before the camera even reaches my eye to shoot with. I think most advanced shooters always pre-check their settings before use, so maybe that is why Nikon designed the VF display like they did since this is usually done using the external lcd's.

I'm sure everyone sets and confirms settings before a shoot. But in many occasions, lighting can vary during an event (going from one room to another, organizers dimming the lights, going from indoors to outdoors, sun going up/down, etc.). One parameter that I often change to adjust to changing light conditions is the ISO setting, and it's useful to always see what's set before taking a picture. In a rush it's easy to forget to adjust settings, so having it displayed in the finder is helpful, especially since extra ISO noise isn't immediately obvious in image review without zooming in (so without the indication, it's easy to take a batch of photos at the wrong ISO and not notice).

And auto ISO, especially combined with manual mode, is an extremely useful feature to me. Being able to see what auto ISO is doing is very nice.

As far as not having frame count in the VF, I don't think this is a problem anymore. With film, it was a necessity. Since most people are using 16gb and bigger cards, you can shoot a long time, even in raw... And it takes a fraction of a second to glance at the cameras top LCD if you really need to know.

Most of the time it's not a problem. But during long shoots, I have run cards down, and it's nice to see how much space you have left. For example, if you glance down and the counter shows 30 or something, it's about time to discard unneeded images to keep space open...just in case. I think if ISO display is set, the top LCD frame count display changes to display ISO too, unless the camera goes into standby or is turned off.

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pipee
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AF sensitivity
In reply to paulski66, Apr 10, 2013

I don't mind the 39pt AF but I do mind that the Canon 6D and D7100 can focus better in low light that the D600 without AF assist.

AF is useless if it cannot lock on!

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JimPearce
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Shouldn't that be hosed eNo?
In reply to eNo, Apr 10, 2013

No way the D600's successor will get away with 1/200 sync, 1/4000 SS and 39 point autofocus.

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ultimitsu
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Re: Feeling jipped with D600 39-pt AF?
In reply to RhysM, Apr 10, 2013

RhysM wrote:

What the hell are you going on about?

what you think?

If they made a D700 with a 24mp sensor it would be priced between the D600 and D800.

What's your supporting evidence?

What has inflation got to do with it?

price has to do with it.

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paulski66
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Re: AF sensitivity
In reply to pipee, Apr 10, 2013

And how often is this a problem for you?

I regularly photograph my daughter's dance competitions - fast moving subjects in varying degrees of lighting. I've never found the d600 AF deficient. In fact, I find it excellent.

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Daniel Lauring
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Re: AF sensitivity
In reply to paulski66, Apr 10, 2013

paulski66 wrote:

And how often is this a problem for you?

I regularly photograph my daughter's dance competitions - fast moving subjects in varying degrees of lighting. I've never found the d600 AF deficient. In fact, I find it excellent.

D600's focus performance is not as good as D800, but it costs less.

D3200's focus performance is not as good as D7100, but it costs less.

As far as D7100 vs. D600 what you are seeing is performance overlap between the highest performance, highest cost APSC camera and the lowest performance, lowest cost FF camera.

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