s-m-c Takumar: any difference between old and new production re coatings?

Started Apr 7, 2013 | Discussions
BobORama
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s-m-c Takumar: any difference between old and new production re coatings?
Apr 7, 2013

Given a Super-Multi-Coated Takumar lens of some type, is there any difference between older and newer production of the same lens in terms of coatings?   I'm not referring to Takumar vs Super-Takumar, etc.   But rather if the coatings are significantly different between older and newer production runs of what, outwardly, is the the same lens?

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steephill
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In reply to BobORama, Apr 7, 2013

My impression was that back then coatings only changed during model changes e.g. Takumar to superTakumar. However as this is the internet it is probably wrong :).

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Col K10d
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Re: s-m-c Takumar: any difference between old and new production re coatings?
In reply to BobORama, Apr 7, 2013

I would say not.  A marketing department (even Pentax's) would surely not let any change go through without it being advertised as an new improvement!

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brandrx
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Re: s-m-c Takumar: any difference between old and new production re coatings?
In reply to BobORama, Apr 7, 2013

BobORama wrote:

Given a Super-Multi-Coated Takumar lens of some type, is there any difference between older and newer production of the same lens in terms of coatings?   I'm not referring to Takumar vs Super-Takumar, etc.   But rather if the coatings are significantly different between older and newer production runs of what, outwardly, is the the same lens?

Bob,

My understanding is that there is no difference between the coatings of Super-Multi-Coated and S-M-C. Also, these are not "outwardly" the same lens. The Super-Muti-Coated have metal focus rings and the S-M-C have rubber on the focus rings.

Cheers.

Ron

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BobORama
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Re: s-m-c Takumar: any difference between old and new production re coatings?
In reply to brandrx, Apr 8, 2013

Ron,

I guess I'm speaking of same lens model very different serial numbers.

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brandrx
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Re: s-m-c Takumar: any difference between old and new production re coatings?
In reply to BobORama, Apr 8, 2013

BobORama wrote:

Ron,

I guess I'm speaking of same lens model very different serial numbers.

Sorry Bob. I guess I misunderstood what you were asking. However, if the newer model S-M-C has the same coating as the older model Super-Multi-Coated, then I would think that all of the same lens, even if a different production run, would have the same coatings. Just my opinion.

Ron

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BobORama
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Re: s-m-c Takumar: any difference between old and new production re coatings?
In reply to brandrx, Apr 8, 2013

brandrx wrote:

BobORama wrote:

Ron,

I guess I'm speaking of same lens model very different serial numbers.

Sorry Bob. I guess I misunderstood what you were asking. However, if the newer model S-M-C has the same coating as the older model Super-Multi-Coated, then I would think that all of the same lens, even if a different production run, would have the same coatings. Just my opinion.

Because of some odd luck with box lots at the silent auction, I ended up with some duplicate lenses and am trying to figure which ones to jettison out the air lock to recoup.   In a couple instances, the lower serial numbered ones are in better cosmetic / external / mechanical condition.   So if the later production were "better" some how optically, I'd keep them.

If you don't know the answer, I'm not sure who would. 

I have to assume, as others have mentioned, that if there were some difference, they would have been marketing it.

Thanks!

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brandrx
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Re: s-m-c Takumar: any difference between old and new production re coatings?
In reply to BobORama, Apr 8, 2013

Bob,

Here is an old thread (March 2006) that we were discussing S-M-C versus Super-Multi-Coated. There are a few links within that thread that might be some interesting reading for you so I suggest you read all of the replies.

Cheers.

Ron

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MightyMike
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Re: s-m-c Takumar: any difference between old and new production re coatings?
In reply to brandrx, Apr 8, 2013

Ron you can correct me if i'm wrong but this is how i recall it...

- Takumar, Auto-Takumar and Tele-takumar (likely the same coating)

- then Super-Takumar

- then Super-Multi-Coated Takumar

- then SMC Takumar

- then SMC Pentax (K)

- then SMC Pentax-M

- then SMC Pentax-A

and on and on... I believe the coating did chance between Super-Multi-Coated and SMC, after SMC takumar the changes were likely not advertised but still happened

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Mike from Canada
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Bruce Trail Hiker
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Re: s-m-c Takumar: any difference between old and new production re coatings?
In reply to MightyMike, Apr 8, 2013

Hi Mike,

I picked up a Super Takumar 55mm f2 for $5 at a flea market on my recent trip to Washington DC - no fungus and comes with the original leather case.

Did some research on Takumar lenses and the question of "Radioactive" showed up.

As we are on the subject on these old but quality lenses - can you enlighten me if the Super Takumar 55mm f2 and the Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR/Auto-Takumar 85mm F1.8 radioactive or not?

If they are radioactive are they safe to use.

Thanks

Man Khun

MightyMike wrote:

Ron you can correct me if i'm wrong but this is how i recall it...

- Takumar, Auto-Takumar and Tele-takumar (likely the same coating)

- then Super-Takumar

- then Super-Multi-Coated Takumar

- then SMC Takumar

- then SMC Pentax (K)

- then SMC Pentax-M

- then SMC Pentax-A

and on and on... I believe the coating did chance between Super-Multi-Coated and SMC, after SMC takumar the changes were likely not advertised but still happened

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Mike from Canada
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MightyMike
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Re: s-m-c Takumar: any difference between old and new production re coatings?
In reply to Bruce Trail Hiker, Apr 8, 2013

I know my Super-Takumar 55mm F2.0 has a yellowing issue, the 2nd version of the Super-Takumar 50mm F1.4 has the issue, the 49mm version of the Super-Takumar 35mm F2.0 also

I don't recall which other ones might have it but it seems to be limited to the Super-Takumars

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Mike from Canada
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MightyMike
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Re: s-m-c Takumar: any difference between old and new production re coatings?
In reply to MightyMike, Apr 8, 2013

Yes totally safe to use, the thorium which is a rather mild radioactive substance over time turnd some of the coatings yellow, this yellow can be weak or stronger, unless its very strong the auto WB tends to compensate for it. It can also lower the amount of light that makes it through the lens, of course more so if its strong. the yellowing can be reversed by removing the rear cap wrapping the lens in foil leaving the front exposed and leaving it in direct sunlight for a few to several days, some have had to leave it for a longer time others not so long, the UV light is what reverses the yellowing and this doesn't change the effectiveness of the coating it just corrects the effect of the thorium.

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Mike from Canada
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Bruce Trail Hiker
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Re: s-m-c Takumar: any difference between old and new production re coatings?
In reply to MightyMike, Apr 8, 2013

Mike,

Thank you so much for the quick reply!

Now I am at ease with trying out these wonderfully built manual focus lenses!

Judging from the PF Takumar club - image quality from these Takumar lenses are excellent and beautiful!

Cheers

Man Khun

MightyMike wrote:

Yes totally safe to use, the thorium which is a rather mild radioactive substance over time turnd some of the coatings yellow, this yellow can be weak or stronger, unless its very strong the auto WB tends to compensate for it. It can also lower the amount of light that makes it through the lens, of course more so if its strong. the yellowing can be reversed by removing the rear cap wrapping the lens in foil leaving the front exposed and leaving it in direct sunlight for a few to several days, some have had to leave it for a longer time others not so long, the UV light is what reverses the yellowing and this doesn't change the effectiveness of the coating it just corrects the effect of the thorium.

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Mike from Canada
"I am not a great photographer! God is a great creator! All I do is capture His creation with the tools He has provided me."
'I like to think so far outside the box that it would require a telephoto lens just to see the box!' ~ 'My Quote :)'
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brandrx
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Re: s-m-c Takumar: any difference between old and new production re coatings?
In reply to MightyMike, Apr 8, 2013

MightyMike wrote:

Yes totally safe to use, the thorium which is a rather mild radioactive substance over time turnd some of the coatings yellow, this yellow can be weak or stronger, unless its very strong the auto WB tends to compensate for it. It can also lower the amount of light that makes it through the lens, of course more so if its strong. the yellowing can be reversed by removing the rear cap wrapping the lens in foil leaving the front exposed and leaving it in direct sunlight for a few to several days, some have had to leave it for a longer time others not so long, the UV light is what reverses the yellowing and this doesn't change the effectiveness of the coating it just corrects the effect of the thorium.

Just to make it more clear reading: Remove the front and rear caps. Wrap the lens in foil leaving the rear of the lens exposed and pointing towards the sun.

How to Cure Yellowing in Takumar 50mm f1.4 lenses.

Ron

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MightyMike
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Re: s-m-c Takumar: any difference between old and new production re coatings?
In reply to brandrx, Apr 8, 2013

Interesting, i was told the other way around, maybe thats why it hasn't been super effective for me

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Mike from Canada
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'I like to think so far outside the box that it would require a telephoto lens just to see the box!' ~ 'My Quote :)'
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Joseph Tainter
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Re: s-m-c Takumar: any difference between old and new production re coatings?
In reply to Col K10d, Apr 8, 2013

Col K10d wrote:

I would say not.  A marketing department (even Pentax's) would surely not let any change go through without it being advertised as an new improvement!

I wouldn't be so sure. The old SMC F 70-210 had an ED element that Pentax never advertised.

Pentax is not good at marketing.

Joe

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kuuan
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Re: s-m-c Takumar: any difference between old and new production re coatings?
In reply to BobORama, Apr 8, 2013

BobORama wrote:

Because of some odd luck with box lots at the silent auction, I ended up with some duplicate lenses and am trying to figure which ones to jettison out the air lock to recoup.   In a couple instances, the lower serial numbered ones are in better cosmetic / external / mechanical condition.   So if the later production were "better" some how optically, I'd keep them.

If you don't know the answer, I'm not sure who would. 

I have to assume, as others have mentioned, that if there were some difference, they would have been marketing it.

Thanks!

'officially' the coating change was between Super Takumar and Super Multi Coated ( S-M-C ) Takumar and the SMC has the same coating as the S-M-C.

all your S-M-C lenses 'should' have the same coating regardless of serial number. If you have more copies of the same S-M-C lens I would not base my decision which one to keep on serial number but certainly would test them against each other, sample variation of old lenses quite often is considerable.

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Bruce Trail Hiker
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Re: s-m-c Takumar: any difference between old and new production re coatings?
In reply to brandrx, Apr 8, 2013

Thanks Ron.

Cheers

Man Khun

brandrx wrote:

MightyMike wrote:

Yes totally safe to use, the thorium which is a rather mild radioactive substance over time turnd some of the coatings yellow, this yellow can be weak or stronger, unless its very strong the auto WB tends to compensate for it. It can also lower the amount of light that makes it through the lens, of course more so if its strong. the yellowing can be reversed by removing the rear cap wrapping the lens in foil leaving the front exposed and leaving it in direct sunlight for a few to several days, some have had to leave it for a longer time others not so long, the UV light is what reverses the yellowing and this doesn't change the effectiveness of the coating it just corrects the effect of the thorium.

Just to make it more clear reading: Remove the front and rear caps. Wrap the lens in foil leaving the rear of the lens exposed and pointing towards the sun.

How to Cure Yellowing in Takumar 50mm f1.4 lenses.

Ron

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Carl - 'What do you mean? It will only take 1/1000s.'
'Keep your eyes looking forward. However, glance back now and then to see where you've come from. It will put a smile on your face.' ~ brandrx

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Coldamus
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Re: s-m-c Takumar: any difference between old and new production re coatings?
In reply to BobORama, Apr 9, 2013

Bob,

I agree with what Ron said but am throwing a spanner in the works.  You may need to consider more than just the coatings.

I recently bought a Super-Multi-Coated Takumar 135/f2.5.  Between submitting my bid and winning the auction, I discovered there are several versions of that lens and at least two versions of the Super-Multi-Coated variety.  The difference is in the number of lens elements (6 vs 5) and the number of aperture blades (6 vs 8).  I realised the one I was bidding on was the inferior version but at the price, was not unhappy about it.  There are two ways to tell the difference between the varieties: (a) - the number behind the auto/manual switch of the first version ends in 02 while on the second (better) version it ends in 12. (b) the last number before infinity on the metric distance scale is 30 on the first version and 35 on the better second version.

So what I am suggesting is that you may need to research each lens type individually in case there are significant differences other than the coatings.

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brandrx
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Re: s-m-c Takumar: any difference between old and new production re coatings?
In reply to Coldamus, Apr 9, 2013

Coldamus wrote:

Bob,

I agree with what Ron said but am throwing a spanner in the works.  You may need to consider more than just the coatings.

I recently bought a Super-Multi-Coated Takumar 135/f2.5.  Between submitting my bid and winning the auction, I discovered there are several versions of that lens and at least two versions of the Super-Multi-Coated variety.  The difference is in the number of lens elements (6 vs 5) and the number of aperture blades (6 vs 8).  I realised the one I was bidding on was the inferior version but at the price, was not unhappy about it.  There are two ways to tell the difference between the varieties: (a) - the number behind the auto/manual switch of the first version ends in 02 while on the second (better) version it ends in 12. (b) the last number before infinity on the metric distance scale is 30 on the first version and 35 on the better second version.

So what I am suggesting is that you may need to research each lens type individually in case there are significant differences other than the coatings.

I agree with what Coldamus has written above. That "great" Super-Multi-Coated Takumar 135/2.5 is on par (image quality wise) with the SMC K135/2.5 lens. The SMC K135/2.5 has sometimes been referred to as "the poor man's A*135mm f1.8 lens". The SMC K135/2.5 also has the 35 reading just before the infinity mark. This lens can sometimes cost about US $200 or more.

Cheers.

Ron

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'Keep your eyes looking forward. However, glance back now and then to see where you've come from. It will put a smile on your face.' ~ brandrx

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