What happened to the XZ-10?

Started Apr 7, 2013 | Discussions
marike6
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What happened to the XZ-10?
Apr 7, 2013

There seems to be very few XZ-10 owners, which is surprising considering there was so much talk about this camera when DPR first announced it.

I check Flickr daily to find XZ-10 samples, and an XZ-10 search there is a pretty sad affair.

http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=olympus+XZ-10&s=rec

Almost all of the images are product shots from Olympus, and the other few images are not really useful for judging IQ.

So my question is, why are there seemingly so few XZ-10 users and early adopters?  Is it the price or is the camera not as good a performer as people initially thought it would be?

I love the body design, the lens, and AF system but I still can't find many samples to help me make an informed decision.  Since the XZ-10 talk and image postings have pretty much fallen off the map on this forum and elsewhere, I don't know what to think.  It's been available for weeks, is there some reason why the XZ-10 is not taking off?

Thanks and happy shooting, Markus

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Kerusker
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Re: What happened to the XZ-10?
In reply to marike6, Apr 7, 2013

marike6 wrote:

Almost all of the images are product shots from Olympus, and the other few images are not really useful for judging IQ.

IQ can't be the main reason to get the XZ-10 because of it's small sensor. If IQ of the XZ-2 isn't better, then Olympus is doing something wrong.

Also you hardly can't compare individual XZ-10 shots to some other shots of it's competitors. So you have to wait for reviews which allow for direct comparison. And you may have to use original RAW files to be able to compare yourself. Out of camera JPGs already apply too many parameters to be comparable between different brands.

F.Ex.: Default setting for JPG compression on the XZ-10 is 'Fine'! You have to set it to 'Super Fine' yourself to get the lowest JPG compression (best JPG quality).

So my question is, why are there seemingly so few XZ-10 users and early adopters?  Is it the price or is the camera not as good a performer as people initially thought it would be?

Currently it's the price. XZ-10 + 50 EUR = XZ-2 (or similar from other brand).

I love the body design, the lens, and AF system but I still can't find many samples to help me make an informed decision.

Why not buy it at a seller which allows for return or exchange. Then you can examine and test yourself.

Since the XZ-10 talk and image postings have pretty much fallen off the map on this forum and elsewhere, I don't know what to think.  It's been available for weeks, is there some reason why the XZ-10 is not taking off?

Because of an attitude similar to your's?

Thanks and happy shooting, Markus

Same to you.

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marike6
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Re: What happened to the XZ-10?
In reply to Kerusker, Apr 7, 2013

Kerusker wrote:

Since the XZ-10 talk and image postings have pretty much fallen off the map on this forum and elsewhere, I don't know what to think.  It's been available for weeks, is there some reason why the XZ-10 is not taking off?

Because of an attitude similar to your's?

This is my second post about the XZ-10 and I don't even own one.  I've been an early adopter in the past quite a bit, but when a camera has a smaller sensor than it's competitors, the burden of proof regarding IQ is higher.  And so far, nobody has shown many samples so it's very difficult to get a good sense of what the XZ-10 is capable of (Even Olympus's own XZ-10 website only has two heavily sharpened sample images, the fruit and the sewing machine, so there is not a lot of info to go on).

When the Pentax Q was released everybody wondered how IQ would be with a sensor smaller than it's competitors.  But Flickr users posted a good number of Q images, and we were able to see that IQ was quite good, competitive with larger sensor compacts.  This is not happening with the XZ-10 as of yet.

There are several XZ-10 owners in this forum and they hardly ever post images here or on Flickr.  So I'm not understanding how my attitude is to blame for anything.   I've been an early adopter for some recent cameras and things didn't go well so you'll forgive me if I'm a bit more cautious regarding the XZ-10.  (I bought two new releases, the Fuji X20 and the NEX-3N and it didn't go well with either camera and they are no longer with me).

I'm wondering why nobody is posting any images?  A couple of users in this forum posted some images and the user ChrisWal was kind enough to post a gallery filled with full-sized XZ-10, but nobody at all commented on the thread but me and thread pretty much died.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/51215170

The review site online have seemingly forgotten about the XZ-10 and the only articles that a Google search returns are "XZ-10 Previews".

So I have to disagree about "my attitude". I really haven't been able to form an opinion about the XZ-10 because there is so little activity about the camera.

Cheers, Markus

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Kerusker
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Re: What happened to the XZ-10?
In reply to marike6, Apr 7, 2013

Markus,

marike6 wrote:

Kerusker wrote:

Since the XZ-10 talk and image postings have pretty much fallen off the map on this forum and elsewhere, I don't know what to think.  It's been available for weeks, is there some reason why the XZ-10 is not taking off?

Because of an attitude similar to your's?

Sorry that you only quoted this part of my post.  I myself have a similar attitude.

Some time ago I swore to me, never to be an early adopter again. If you find a failure of a new camera which isn't obvious, then you may have a hard time on a forum.

As I said: Why not buy it at a seller which allows for return or exchange. Then you can examine and test yourself.

This time I decided to buy the XZ-10 as soon as it was available at a dealer with good return policy near me. I tested the Pentax MX-1 shortly at a dealer but it is missing a feature which is important to me - I would have liked to buy it because I digitally switched from Olympus to Panasonic to currently Pentax (K10D, K-5).

I don't like to return a camera, but since the user is doing the final quality control for the manufacturer,  I don't feel guilty.

Shooting habit, camera handling (f.ex. no lens cap), other cameras owned make up for my decision much more than IQ in case of the XZ-10. If IQ is most important, I use my DSLR.

This is my second post about the XZ-10 ......

All your arguments are valid similarly for me.

I'm wondering why nobody is posting any images?  A couple of users in this forum posted some images and the user ChrisWal was kind enough to post a gallery filled with full-sized XZ-10, but nobody at all commented on the thread but me and thread pretty much died.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/51215170

Currently I don't post XZ-10 images, because I'm learning. We have bad weather most of the time (very cloudy; I use vivid) and I go a certain path outside and I do similar shots for testing my cameras. These shot's aren't of any value for others.

The review site online have seemingly forgotten about the XZ-10 and the only articles that a Google search returns are "XZ-10 Previews".

Wait till the XZ-10 price is coming down at least 50 $ or EUR then much more info will be available (in 4 to 6 weeks I guess).

So I have to disagree about "my attitude". I really haven't been able to form an opinion about the XZ-10 because there is so little activity about the camera.

I didn't want to blame you for that - it's similar to my attitude (s.a.).

Cheers, Markus

Cheers

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Michael_13
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maybe this helps a little
In reply to marike6, Apr 7, 2013

Markus,

I'm sorry that you're still undecided. I don't like this feeling either: You really want to buy something new, but are not sure whether it is the right thing.

With "attitude", K. probably only meant your indecision. Could be that quite a few readers here are waiting for reviews of XZ-10.

Imo XZ-10 does not really take off, because it has a big rival in its own stable: XZ-1. In the US you can get it for around $280 and it is only slightly bigger than XZ-10. Then there is the P330 you are also considering...

Maybe this helps a little:

P330@28mmF2.8 XZ10@26mmF2.8

P330@120mmF5.6  XZ10@130mmF4

P330@50mmF4 XZ10@50mmF4

Although these pics are not absolutely consistent, they still reveal the following to me:

- P330 heavily over-sharpens the images, foliage looks weird with strong halos (hope this can be changed in its settings) - you need to sharpen XZ-10 for comparison

- lens of P330 is better at the edges (but with less zoom and aperture)

- noise of P330 is lower at same F, but XZ-10 can often compensate this with lower F

- I prefer color of XZ-10

All in all, I think XZ-10 is keeping up quite well and it really depends on your needs to decide which camera is best.

Greetings,
Michael

PS: What was wrong with your X20? I think it is an excellent camera, only too large for my taste.

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marike6
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Re: What happened to the XZ-10?
In reply to Kerusker, Apr 7, 2013

Kerusker wrote:

This time I decided to buy the XZ-10 as soon as it was available at a dealer with good return policy near me. I tested the Pentax MX-1 shortly at a dealer but it is missing a feature which is important to me - I would have liked to buy it because I digitally switched from Olympus to Panasonic to currently Pentax (K10D, K-5).

What didn't you like about the MX-1?  What feature was missing?

The MX-1 is extremely high on my list, but in compacts I'm not a big fan of cameras with lens caps.  My XZ-1 had a lens cap, and it also didn't except UV filters, like the X10 or P7700, so I was always worried about the front element of the lens.

I've been seriously considering the MX-1, XZ-2, P7700, P330 and XZ-10, but only the last two have auto lens covers so it makes shooting faster and there is not worry about the front element of the lens.  Only the Nikon P7700 accepts lens filters (UV, Polarizer, etc) but of course it's a much larger camera than the P330 or XZ-10.  Same with the MX-1.  IQ-wise both the P7700, XZ-2, and MX-1 are about as good as it gets in a compact, but they are all quite large.

So I'm struggling to decide between the P330 and XZ-10.  I prefer the body and lens ring controls of the XZ-10 and it really is one of the most beautiful compacts to come along in a while.  But I've been able to find some very nice P330 sample images online, and not so many for the XZ-10.  The P330 has a larger sensor and the XZ-10 has a faster f1.8-2.7 lens vs f1.8-5.6 for the P330.  So it's a tough choice.

So I'd really would like to see more, but I just can't find any images or reviews online.

Anyway, thanks a lot and enjoy your camera.  It's a beauty for sure.

Cheers and happy shooting, Markus

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Greynerd
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Re: What happened to the XZ-10?
In reply to marike6, Apr 7, 2013

You do seem to be rather annoyed that people are not going out and freely spending their money to test the camera for you so you yourself that can avoid risking your own money on it. There does seem to be a bit of a problem there in your attitude

Surely that is the job of the reviewers not other forum members.

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jimr
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You Fail To Mention That The P330 Has A In Camera Sharpness Control
In reply to Michael_13, Apr 7, 2013

That is something many many cameras in its price range lacks and allows the user to tailor the sharpness to individual peeferences.

Does the XZ10 have a sharpness setting?

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marike6
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You can't be serious...
In reply to Greynerd, Apr 7, 2013

Greynerd wrote:

You do seem to be rather annoyed that people are not going out and freely spending their money to test the camera for you so you yourself that can avoid risking your own money on it. There does seem to be a bit of a problem there in your attitude

Surely you are joking?  I'm not asking anyone to buy an XZ-10.  Just wondered why people who already own the XZ-10 don't seem to post any samples or have galleries on Flickr or SmugMug.  Is that normal in this forum, because I can assure you most other forums on DPR are extremely active, especially when it comes to new cameras.

There is very little activity anywhere on the internet regarding the new Olympus, and I was just wondering why.  Sorry to put you or anybody else out.

Surely that is the job of the reviewers not other forum members.

Who said it was the job of other forum members?  I didn't ask anyone for anything, I was just wondering why forum activity was so low.

Another forum actually did write a review of the XZ-10, but unfortunately didn't try to support his claims with any images.

"Great little compact but image quality / performance do not deserve the “enthusiast camera” label... http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/51239142

Photography is a visual art, is it not?

Anyway, all I was asking is why there is so little activity surrounding the XZ-10.  Didn't mean to offend anyone, but boy am I sorry I asked.  It won't happen again.

Thanks for everyone,

All the best and best of luck,

Markus

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marike6
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Re: maybe this helps a little
In reply to Michael_13, Apr 7, 2013

Michael_13 wrote:

Markus,

I'm sorry that you're still undecided. I don't like this feeling either: You really want to buy something new, but are not sure whether it is the right thing.

With "attitude", K. probably only meant your indecision. Could be that quite a few readers here are waiting for reviews of XZ-10.

Imo XZ-10 does not really take off, because it has a big rival in its own stable: XZ-1. In the US you can get it for around $280 and it is only slightly bigger than XZ-10. Then there is the P330 you are also considering...

Maybe this helps a little:

P330@28mmF2.8 XZ10@26mmF2.8

P330@120mmF5.6  XZ10@130mmF4

P330@50mmF4 XZ10@50mmF4

Although these pics are not absolutely consistent, they still reveal the following to me:

- P330 heavily over-sharpens the images, foliage looks weird with strong halos (hope this can be changed in its settings) - you need to sharpen XZ-10 for comparison

With the P330 (like most Nikon cameras) you can adjust each image parameter - Saturation, Contrast, Sharpness - separately.  You can even make a custom profile to taste.

But yes I agree the P330 images are way over-sharpened (Same with the Pentax MX-1), but I have converted the RAW files from the ePhotozine P330 Review and they look excellent.  Natural, sharp, with very little noise in the sky, and nice colors.

But yes, the Standard Picture Profile of the P330 is an extremely consumer friendly setting designed to make OOC JPEGs pop at normal viewing size.  They look horrible at 100% and fortunately this can be changed and adjusted to taste.

Thanks for the samples.  The XZ-10 look nice and natural with great colors.  CAs are a bit high, even at f2.8, but the lens seems to be a good performer at middle apertures.  Wide open in the corners it's not terrific, but 1 EV from open it seems fine.

Thanks again and good luck, Markus

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Barr1e
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Re: What happened to the XZ-10?
In reply to Greynerd, Apr 7, 2013

Greynerd wrote:

You do seem to be rather annoyed that people are not going out and freely spending their money to test the camera for you so you yourself that can avoid risking your own money on it. There does seem to be a bit of a problem there in your attitude

Surely that is the job of the reviewers not other forum members.

Having now discovered about 50% of the camera workings I am impressed. My gear consists of an E-3, E-5 + others so I know a little about picture taking.

With so many new models launched recently by all manufacturers where should the reviewers start?

Anyhow, I made good use of the camera today and the image below was taken in one of the 'ART' modes.  The only pp was resizing.

For those of you who want more this is not the only site where pix are posted - they are out there.

From a j.peg image

Regards.   Barr1e

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Kerusker
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Re: What happened to the XZ-10?
In reply to marike6, Apr 7, 2013

Markus,

as you are able to develop RAW, you are also familiar with EXIF data (I guess).

As I mentioned before, most OOC JPGs of the XZ-10 posted will have more compression artifacts than necessary.

Regarding the missing feature of the MX-1:

The display can't reflect the actual exposure in display brightness nor live histogram (only exposure compensation). In the XZ-10 and Nikon P7700 menu this can be turned on or off.

But I may be wrong (didn't find it in the MX-1 manual either).

Good Luck

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Greynerd
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Re: What happened to the XZ-10?
In reply to Barr1e, Apr 7, 2013

Glad you like the machine. The specs look very good and I think they will probably sell a lot of these without reviews. The IQ would have to be bad to stop sales and the evidence seems to be it is OK. It will be interesting seeing the reviews of the camera when they come out which  will be soon I am sure.

Barr1e wrote:

Greynerd wrote:

You do seem to be rather annoyed that people are not going out and freely spending their money to test the camera for you so you yourself that can avoid risking your own money on it. There does seem to be a bit of a problem there in your attitude

Surely that is the job of the reviewers not other forum members.

Having now discovered about 50% of the camera workings I am impressed. My gear consists of an E-3, E-5 + others so I know a little about picture taking.

With so many new models launched recently by all manufacturers where should the reviewers start?

Anyhow, I made good use of the camera today and the image below was taken in one of the 'ART' modes.  The only pp was resizing.

For those of you who want more this is not the only site where pix are posted - they are out there.


From a j.peg image

Regards.   Barr1e

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Ben O Connor
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Re: What happened to the XZ-10?
In reply to Greynerd, Apr 7, 2013

Simple;

They are beginner P&S people. They don´t have any idea whats dpreview.com, have not visited flickr.com.

They must be probably facebook users , instagram members only. I noticed some higher demanding P&S owners (or wants to own) go for sensor size, rather than F number. Even they can leave pocketability behind...

And second reason could be; XZ-1 is at its best accessibility. In Finland, 199 euros for it !! God i payed 399 euros Dec 2011.

But the first reason is more realistic i think. .

Ben

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Henry Falkner
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Re: What happened to the XZ-10?
In reply to Ben O Connor, Apr 7, 2013

Ben O Connor wrote:

And second reason could be; XZ-1 is at its best accessibility. In Finland, 199 euros for it !! God i payed 399 euros Dec 2011.

Here in New Zealand, Photo Warehouse in particular is trying to flog off Olympus stock as old as 10 years (Stylys Ferrari).

The Stylus 7020 is still on offer. It uses no longer available xD cards plus microSDs in an adaptor. The model was a vital stopgap for me in 2010 at the Canberra Folk Festival for its 35 minute battery life doing VGA video (my 5-hour disk from the festival had a small distribution). But it was decisively superceded by the Stylus 9010, with more zoom, less noise, better colour saturation, and HD720p video for up to an hour on a single battery charge.

Photo Warehouse has on sale black and white XZ-1s at NZ$ 548.-.

My 2-year-old SZ-30MR is also on sale at NZ$ 498.-, NZ$ 100.- less than I paid in September 2011. Since the SZ-31MR iHS and now the SH-50 iHS also are no-shows in New Zealand, I am beginning to feel I should get a second SZ-30MR, for its better colour saturation and more reliable focussing (compared to my SP-570UZ and my Stylus 9010).

Back to the Photo Warehouse - the XZ-2 is listed at NZ$ 825.-, but it has only a 12MP BSI-CMOS sensor (I do make use of the 16MP in my SZ-30MR).

The XZ-10, with its small 12MP BSI CMOS sensor and without a hotshoe understandably does not make an appearance in such an overstocked situation.

Off Topic - I have been asked to advise a friend on a P&S for a 10-week trip to Europe. He is still using a Nikon F SLR with film. The outcome was, his wife will do the photos on her digital P&S, and he leaves his Nikon F at home. Main reason is, he has arthritis in his thumbs, and he finds small P&Ss inoperable. His preference is Nikon, and again, Photo Warehouse is saddled with old stock. I did point out that the P510 remains a useful long-zoom bridge camera, which is the direction he was leaning in.

Henry

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tkbslc
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too expensive
In reply to marike6, Apr 8, 2013

I don't think it is selling.  It doesn't even have ONE review on Amazon.

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Kerusker
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Re: What happened to the XZ-10?
In reply to marike6, Apr 9, 2013

marike6 wrote:

So I'd really would like to see more, but I just can't find any images or reviews online.

Anyway, thanks a lot and enjoy your camera.  It's a beauty for sure.

Cheers and happy shooting, Markus

At least that seems to be solved:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/51253713

By the way, I have a folder of full-sized XZ-10 images.  If you are interested in them, I will can put them in my DropBox so you can download them.  They might help you get a better idea of what the XZ-10 can and can't do.

Cheers, and happy shooting, Markus

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ChrisWal
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Re: too expensive
In reply to tkbslc, Apr 10, 2013

tkbslc wrote:

I don't think it is selling.  It doesn't even have ONE review on Amazon.

I looked on Amazon's UK site a couple of weeks ago and found no trace of the XZ-10 by a search for "Olympus XZ-10". Assuming (wrongly) that they weren't yet stocking it because maybe it was too new, I bought it in the end from a different retailer. The search facility still fails to find the model, which could account for slow (non-existent?!) sales of the camera on Amazon UK. The camera is listed on the site, but I can only get to it by specifying the "Electronics and photo" department and scrolling through the results. I put a review on there, giving my first impressions. I did the same on this site, with very little response.

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echelon2004
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Re: What happened to the XZ-10?
In reply to marike6, Apr 10, 2013

You can get Nikon P330, Canon 280hs, Fuji XF-1, FujiX10 with original bag, 16gb sandisk sd card and spare battery, two oly xz-1 or xz-1+vf2 for the money xz-10 costs.

And it isn't better. Or faster. Or more versatile, or better built or anything like that.

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ChrisWal
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Re: What happened to the XZ-10?
In reply to marike6, Apr 11, 2013

Have you seen this "review"?

http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/reviews/1237054-olympus-stylus-xz-10-users-review.html

scroll past the first bit to find samples

Chris

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