LX7 - does its IQ compete with e.g. Sony RX100?

Started Apr 6, 2013 | Discussions
Mikedigi
Veteran MemberPosts: 7,301Gear list
Like?
LX7 - does its IQ compete with e.g. Sony RX100?
Apr 6, 2013

Dunno, I don't have either, but these specs are intriguing:

LX7:       298g, 110x68x46mm, 1/1.7" (7.44x5.58mm) sensor, 10mp, 24-90mm efl.

RX100:   240g, 102x59x36mm, 1" (13.2x8.8mm) sensor, 20mp, 28-100mm efl.

One might say that the Sony's sensor area/weight ratio is impressive.

Mike

 Mikedigi's gear list:Mikedigi's gear list
Fujifilm FinePix F20 Zoom Panasonic Lumix DMC-ZS7 Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ200
Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX7 Sony RX100
If you believe there are incorrect tags, please send us this post using our feedback form.
hattem
Forum MemberPosts: 88Gear list
Like?
Re: LX7 - does its IQ compete with e.g. Sony RX100?
In reply to Mikedigi, Apr 6, 2013

there is a difference in price as well, and you might check the reviews in the Dpreview websites

 hattem's gear list:hattem's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX3 Panasonic Lumix DMC-LF1
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Veducci
Contributing MemberPosts: 690Gear list
Like?
Re: LX7 - does its IQ compete with e.g. Sony RX100?
In reply to hattem, Apr 6, 2013

You`re going to have to be more specific . In most categories it absolutely competes , but there are certain categories where one is better than the other.

I think it`s more about which one would suit your personal preference.

You also have to consider the RX100 cost twice as much as the LX7.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Mikedigi
Veteran MemberPosts: 7,301Gear list
Like?
Re: LX7 - does its IQ compete with e.g. Sony RX100?
In reply to hattem, Apr 6, 2013

hattem wrote:

there is a difference in price as well,

Yes, I know, sometimes it is justified, sometimes not.

and you might check the reviews in the Dpreview websites

Yes, I know, but I am really asking whether anyone has any experience from using and comparing these.

Mike

 Mikedigi's gear list:Mikedigi's gear list
Fujifilm FinePix F20 Zoom Panasonic Lumix DMC-ZS7 Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ200
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Mikedigi
Veteran MemberPosts: 7,301Gear list
Like?
Re: LX7 - does its IQ compete with e.g. Sony RX100?
In reply to Veducci, Apr 6, 2013

Veducci wrote:

You`re going to have to be more specific . In most categories it absolutely competes , but there are certain categories where one is better than the other. . . .

Do you have experience of where it does not compete?

. . . . You also have to consider the RX100 cost twice as much as the LX7.

Yes, I know - sometimes a higher price is justified, sometimes not.

Mike

 Mikedigi's gear list:Mikedigi's gear list
Fujifilm FinePix F20 Zoom Panasonic Lumix DMC-ZS7 Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ200
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Dale108
Veteran MemberPosts: 5,010
Like?
Re: LX7 - does its IQ compete with e.g. Sony RX100?
In reply to Mikedigi, Apr 6, 2013

I own the LX7 and tried the RX100 for about 1 week last year.  Strictly on IQ, the RX100 is better than the LX7.  however, for the price, the LX7 IQ is great and that f1.4 lens is a jewel and allows you to shoot at lower ISOs than with the RX100.

Dale

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Veducci
Contributing MemberPosts: 690Gear list
Like?
Re: LX7 - does its IQ compete with e.g. Sony RX100?
In reply to Mikedigi, Apr 6, 2013

Mikedigi wrote:

Veducci wrote:

You`re going to have to be more specific . In most categories it absolutely competes , but there are certain categories where one is better than the other. . . .

Do you have experience of where it does not compete?

. . . . You also have to consider the RX100 cost twice as much as the LX7.

Yes, I know - sometimes a higher price is justified, sometimes not.

Mike

Well, you don`t need to have both to see the RX100 is missing a hot shoe and the fact that it doesn`t have a 24mm f/1.4 aperture.  That said a cased can be made for the longer zoom and larger sensor in the RX100.

As I said earlier it`s gonna boil down to personal preferences .

Some compromises will be made regardless of what camera you decide on.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Mikedigi
Veteran MemberPosts: 7,301Gear list
Like?
Re: LX7 - does its IQ compete with e.g. Sony RX100?
In reply to Dale108, Apr 6, 2013

Dale108 wrote:

I own the LX7 and tried the RX100 for about 1 week last year.  Strictly on IQ, the RX100 is better than the LX7.  however, for the price, the LX7 IQ is great and that f1.4 lens is a jewel and allows you to shoot at lower ISOs than with the RX100.

Thanks Dale - lens speed is a good point in favour of the LX7, I should have included that in my extract from the specs.

Mike

 Mikedigi's gear list:Mikedigi's gear list
Fujifilm FinePix F20 Zoom Panasonic Lumix DMC-ZS7 Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ200
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Mikedigi
Veteran MemberPosts: 7,301Gear list
Like?
Re: LX7 - does its IQ compete with e.g. Sony RX100?
In reply to Veducci, Apr 6, 2013

Veducci wrote:

Well, you don`t need to have both to see the RX100 is missing a hot shoe and the fact that it doesn`t have a 24mm f/1.4 aperture.  That said a cased can be made for the longer zoom and larger sensor in the RX100.

As I said earlier it`s gonna boil down to personal preferences .

Some compromises will be made regardless of what camera you decide on.

Thanks, I am not about to buy either of them , I am just interested in how they compare.

Mike

 Mikedigi's gear list:Mikedigi's gear list
Fujifilm FinePix F20 Zoom Panasonic Lumix DMC-ZS7 Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ200
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Ronomy
Senior MemberPosts: 2,129Gear list
Like?
Re: LX7 - does its IQ compete with e.g. Sony RX100?
In reply to Mikedigi, Apr 6, 2013

Mikedigi wrote:

Dale108 wrote:

I own the LX7 and tried the RX100 for about 1 week last year.  Strictly on IQ, the RX100 is better than the LX7.  however, for the price, the LX7 IQ is great and that f1.4 lens is a jewel and allows you to shoot at lower ISOs than with the RX100.

Thanks Dale - lens speed is a good point in favour of the LX7, I should have included that in my extract from the specs.

Mike

The lens on the LX7 is amazing!  I took some images at a friends home with only 3 candles lit and the camera only required ISO 400 to get bright images and they were good looking images too.  I was still new to the camera and my settings were not ideal.  Now that I know the camera better I can get even cleaner images than that night.  In low lighting I am using ires on high, NR 0, SH -1.  With or without flash these settings yield clean and sharp images in low light.  Outdoors during the day in bright sun I drop NR to -2 and set ires to low and set sharpness to 0 although I am still tweaking the bright sun outdoors settings.

 Ronomy's gear list:Ronomy's gear list
Canon PowerShot SD800 IS Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX7 Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ200
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Erik Ohlson
Forum ProPosts: 12,228
Like?
Re: LX7 - does its IQ compete with e.g. Sony RX100?
In reply to Mikedigi, Apr 6, 2013

Mikedigi wrote:

Dale108 wrote:

I own the LX7 and tried the RX100 for about 1 week last year.  Strictly on IQ, the RX100 is better than the LX7.  however, for the price, the LX7 IQ is great and that f1.4 lens is a jewel and allows you to shoot at lower ISOs than with the RX100.

I recently bought both an LX7 and a Canon S-100 to see for myself what all the fuss with "larger sensor" is about.

My regular camera is a Panasonic ZS19.

I haven't had the time to do a real evaluation, but preliminary checks show me no particular advantage for the larger sensor - much to my surprise! The ZS19 produces just as good shots in my daily use.

Thanks Dale - lens speed is a good point in favour of the LX7, I should have included that in my extract from the specs.

Mike

The LX7 is far too big to carry in a trouser pocket. The S-100 is cute and small. Neither have much in the way of zoom. Both the LX7 & the S-100 have wider apertures, but as I rarely shoot in "Low Light" and I have Topaz DeNoise if that should be a problem, that doesn't mean much to me at all.

Interestingly, both of these wider-aperture cameras, LX7 & S-100 have built-in ND filters so one can shoot wide open in daylight without severely over-exposing. Seems backwards to me. 

I do intend to produce a real comparison test, with pictures, for the forum but up to now, I can't say I'm impressed with larger sensor as a criterion. I will probably be selling both of these cameras.

I have never even SEEN an RX100, so I have no opinion there except to say that it would have to be awfully good to get me to accept such limited zoom range.

-Erik

-- hide signature --

'He who hesitates is not only lost - he's miles from the next Exit.'
www.flickr.com/ohlsonmh/ ohlsonmh@yahoo.com

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Sean Nelson
Veteran MemberPosts: 9,401
Like?
Re: LX7 - does its IQ compete with e.g. Sony RX100?
In reply to Erik Ohlson, Apr 6, 2013

Erik Ohlson wrote:

Interestingly, both of these wider-aperture cameras, LX7 & S-100 have built-in ND filters so one can shoot wide open in daylight without severely over-exposing. Seems backwards to me. 

You obviously don't shoot many videos where an ND filter is needed to get lower shutter speeds in bright light.   People who are serious about video really love the camera for it's built-in ND filter.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Markr041
Senior MemberPosts: 2,863Gear list
Like?
Re: LX7 - does its IQ compete with e.g. Sony RX100?
In reply to Sean Nelson, Apr 6, 2013

Sean Nelson wrote:

Erik Ohlson wrote:

Interestingly, both of these wider-aperture cameras, LX7 & S-100 have built-in ND filters so one can shoot wide open in daylight without severely over-exposing. Seems backwards to me. 

You obviously don't shoot many videos where an ND filter is needed to get lower shutter speeds in bright light.   People who are serious about video really love the camera for it's built-in ND filter.

Yes, indeed. An invaluable feature for video. Also, if one wants to have shallow dof in bright light for still it is useful.

 Markr041's gear list:Markr041's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ200 Canon EOS M +1 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Erik Ohlson
Forum ProPosts: 12,228
Like?
Re: LX7 - does its IQ compete with e.g. Sony RX100?
In reply to Sean Nelson, Apr 6, 2013

Sean Nelson wrote:

Erik Ohlson wrote:

Interestingly, both of these wider-aperture cameras, LX7 & S-100 have built-in ND filters so one can shoot wide open in daylight without severely over-exposing. Seems backwards to me. 

You obviously don't shoot many videos where an ND filter is needed to get lower shutter speeds in bright light.   People who are serious about video really love the camera for it's built-in ND filter.

Yes, "People who are serious about video!"

This category doesn't include me - I shoot video maybe once a year "whether I need to or not".

It's nice that you guys have the ND for that, but the same thing applies: aperture too large for daylight. And I hardly shoot stuff that can't take a higher ISO in "Low light', either 

And I have topaz DeNoiser for that.

SO. We're on different tracks. Cool.

-Erik

-- hide signature --

'He who hesitates is not only lost - he's miles from the next Exit.'
www.flickr.com/ohlsonmh/ ohlsonmh@yahoo.com

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Markr041
Senior MemberPosts: 2,863Gear list
Like?
Re: LX7 - does its IQ compete with e.g. Sony RX100?
In reply to Erik Ohlson, Apr 6, 2013

Erik Ohlson wrote:

Sean Nelson wrote:

Erik Ohlson wrote:

Interestingly, both of these wider-aperture cameras, LX7 & S-100 have built-in ND filters so one can shoot wide open in daylight without severely over-exposing. Seems backwards to me. 

You obviously don't shoot many videos where an ND filter is needed to get lower shutter speeds in bright light.   People who are serious about video really love the camera for it's built-in ND filter.

Yes, "People who are serious about video!"

This category doesn't include me - I shoot video maybe once a year "whether I need to or not".

It's nice that you guys have the ND for that, but the same thing applies: aperture too large for daylight. And I hardly shoot stuff that can't take a higher ISO in "Low light', either 

And I have topaz DeNoiser for that.

SO. We're on different tracks. Cool.

-Erik

-- hide signature --

'He who hesitates is not only lost - he's miles from the next Exit.'
www.flickr.com/ohlsonmh/ ohlsonmh@yahoo.com

There are reasons, apart from video, to shoot wide open in bright light, :

- to play with shallower dof, when upping the shutter is not enough to achieve the correct exposure

-  to use a slow shutter (water falls) without having to close down the aperture and thereby lower the quality.

 Markr041's gear list:Markr041's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ200 Canon EOS M +1 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Erik Ohlson
Forum ProPosts: 12,228
Like?
Re: LX7 - does its IQ compete with e.g. Sony RX100?
In reply to Markr041, Apr 6, 2013

Markr041 wrote:

Erik Ohlson wrote:

Sean Nelson wrote:

Erik Ohlson wrote:

Interestingly, both of these wider-aperture cameras, LX7 & S-100 have built-in ND filters so one can shoot wide open in daylight without severely over-exposing. Seems backwards to me. 

You obviously don't shoot many videos where an ND filter is needed to get lower shutter speeds in bright light.   People who are serious about video really love the camera for it's built-in ND filter.

Yes, "People who are serious about video!"

This category doesn't include me - I shoot video maybe once a year "whether I need to or not".

It's nice that you guys have the ND for that, but the same thing applies: aperture too large for daylight. And I hardly shoot stuff that can't take a higher ISO in "Low light', either 

And I have topaz DeNoiser for that.

SO. We're on different tracks. Cool.

-Erik

There are reasons, apart from video, to shoot wide open in bright light, :

- to play with shallower dof, when upping the shutter is not enough to achieve the correct exposure

-  to use a slow shutter (water falls) without having to close down the aperture and thereby lower the quality.

Really?

Actually, with these tiny focal length lenses (actual, not "equivalent") the DOF effects are negligible.

Don't take my word for it, Ming Thien is famous for his camera reviews and says in regard to LX7:

http://blog.mingthein.com/2013/03/25/leica-d-lux-6-panasonic-lx7/#more-5339

I actually advocate shooting at lears as wide as ƒ4.5 to minimize the diffraction effects that you may get in pursuing "DOF", which these small lenses have "in spades' anyway.

Please see this thread for more, and more detail on my findings:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/51182438

I DID shoot a waterfall, once, with film & an ND. 

-Erik

-- hide signature --

'He who hesitates is not only lost - he's miles from the next Exit.'
www.flickr.com/ohlsonmh/ ohlsonmh@yahoo.com

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Markr041
Senior MemberPosts: 2,863Gear list
Like?
Re: LX7 - does its IQ compete with e.g. Sony RX100?
In reply to Erik Ohlson, Apr 6, 2013

Erik Ohlson wrote:

Markr041 wrote:

Erik Ohlson wrote:

Sean Nelson wrote:

Erik Ohlson wrote:

Interestingly, both of these wider-aperture cameras, LX7 & S-100 have built-in ND filters so one can shoot wide open in daylight without severely over-exposing. Seems backwards to me. 

You obviously don't shoot many videos where an ND filter is needed to get lower shutter speeds in bright light.   People who are serious about video really love the camera for it's built-in ND filter.

Yes, "People who are serious about video!"

This category doesn't include me - I shoot video maybe once a year "whether I need to or not".

It's nice that you guys have the ND for that, but the same thing applies: aperture too large for daylight. And I hardly shoot stuff that can't take a higher ISO in "Low light', either 

And I have topaz DeNoiser for that.

SO. We're on different tracks. Cool.

-Erik

There are reasons, apart from video, to shoot wide open in bright light, :

- to play with shallower dof, when upping the shutter is not enough to achieve the correct exposure

-  to use a slow shutter (water falls) without having to close down the aperture and thereby lower the quality.

Really?

Actually, with these tiny focal length lenses (actual, not "equivalent") the DOF effects are negligible.

Don't take my word for it, Ming Thien is famous for his camera reviews and says in regard to LX7:

http://blog.mingthein.com/2013/03/25/leica-d-lux-6-panasonic-lx7/#more-5339

I actually advocate shooting at lears as wide as ƒ4.5 to minimize the diffraction effects that you may get in pursuing "DOF", which these small lenses have "in spades' anyway.

Please see this thread for more, and more detail on my findings:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/51182438

I DID shoot a waterfall, once, with film & an ND. 

-Erik

-- hide signature --

'He who hesitates is not only lost - he's miles from the next Exit.'
www.flickr.com/ohlsonmh/ ohlsonmh@yahoo.com

"Actually, with these tiny focal length lenses (actual, not "equivalent") the DOF effects are negligible."

Really?  I do not have to rely on authorities, I have the camera. And there is a lot you can do with dof.

Here are some examples (if you do not like them, that is fine, but they show playing with dof):

And, at full telephoto (such as it is) and wide open, the dof is shallower on the LX7 than on the RX100. Look it up.

 Markr041's gear list:Markr041's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ200 Canon EOS M +1 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Mikedigi
Veteran MemberPosts: 7,301Gear list
Like?
Re: LX7 - does its IQ compete with e.g. Sony RX100?
In reply to Erik Ohlson, Apr 6, 2013

Erik Ohlson wrote:I recently bought both an LX7 and a Canon S-100 to see for myself what allthe fuss with "larger sensor" is about. . . . . . . .

Thanks Erik, I am surprised to read that you bought those 2 cameras, as I thought you were all for ultracompact superzooms, i.e. the TZs/ZSs.

Interesting - thanks for your thoghts.

Mike

 Mikedigi's gear list:Mikedigi's gear list
Fujifilm FinePix F20 Zoom Panasonic Lumix DMC-ZS7 Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ200
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Mikedigi
Veteran MemberPosts: 7,301Gear list
Like?
Re: LX7 - does its IQ compete with e.g. Sony RX100?
In reply to Markr041, Apr 6, 2013

Markr041 wrote:

Sean Nelson wrote:

Erik Ohlson wrote:

Interestingly, both of these wider-aperture cameras, LX7 & S-100 have built-in ND filters so one can shoot wide open in daylight without severely over-exposing. Seems backwards to me. 

You obviously don't shoot many videos where an ND filter is needed to get lower shutter speeds in bright light.   People who are serious about video really love the camera for it's built-in ND filter.

Yes, indeed. An invaluable feature for video. Also, if one wants to have shallow dof in bright light for still it is useful.

Yes, I want an ND filter for my FZ200 for shallow DOF in bright light.

Mike

 Mikedigi's gear list:Mikedigi's gear list
Fujifilm FinePix F20 Zoom Panasonic Lumix DMC-ZS7 Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ200
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
sjprg
Senior MemberPosts: 1,811Gear list
Like?
Re: LX7 - does its IQ compete with e.g. Sony RX100?
In reply to Mikedigi, Apr 6, 2013

I have an LX5, a 1DS3, a D800E and the RX100. For daylight images the IQ of the RX100 comes very close to the 1DS3, and is close enough to the D800E for 80% of close landscapes. The LX5 now just sits in the glovebox for grab shots. I never shoot in the dark so I can't speak to High ISO. With this experience I don't see how the LX7 could exceed these for daylight.

-- hide signature --

Paul

 sjprg's gear list:sjprg's gear list
Canon EOS-1Ds Mark III Nikon D800E Sony Alpha 7R Canon EF 24mm f/1.4L II USM Canon EF 28-300mm f/3.5-5.6L IS USM +8 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads