I modified a 38xx I-refill cartridge ...

Started Apr 4, 2013 | Discussions
jtoolman
Senior MemberPosts: 4,005
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Re: Now Up and Running with Cone InkThrift dye inks ......
In reply to JJ Winkel, 11 months ago

JJ Winkel wrote:

A few more pics :

Fill'em up ......

60 ml each

In Situ

Printing cover closed ....

As I have a stock of A3+ Epson PGPP, I made a specific profile and printed an evaluation print, then scanned it with my IT8 profiled V750 scanner :

Look at the full size scan (un-retouched)

OK, Agreed the Epson PGPP is no good for B/W but with the Cone InkThrift dye inks the colours are gorgeous and the gloss excellent, much better than with OEM inks.

Thanks for reading ......

-- hide signature --

C&C welcome if ever there's a pic of mine posted above !
JJ.

I didn't notice that you are running the CONE thrift inks on these carts. How are they performing for you? I am enjoying the heck out of them on one 3800 and on a R2400.
I profiled them and they are awesome.

Joe

-- hide signature --

My main printers ( there are more though )
2200/R800/R1900/R2000/R2400/R2880/PRO3800/R340/R380/1400/Artisan 725/Canon Pro9000MKII/Canon PRO9500 MKII
My videos!
New way to refill EPSON OEM carts: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BU6fi9VCOo0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gccxLvfknuE&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zJepnArTdo&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEeDpEIUkkQ&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRr-rUu9hkU&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaQju7xOKy4&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKzxAm9QtWo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRZU1_XD7xE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2X7MSd-ebE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDi1lhDoWjM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iRUoUwwSlA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPV75Ak0R1g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huZ6BlXQqew
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xoJFJVemo8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvrEAam6H_U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGBzHSQx5bU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hh2wuzwezxM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjgQIWLw10M http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fB8QspjBbhk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScojQ7dWAFU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8Zj9dtzeU0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzYreszSdAM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0N-jgaJY94
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ARPQ74_9N0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ARPQ74_9N0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqda4F9YlLU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScojQ7dWAFU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fB8QspjBbhk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGBzHSQx5bU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjgQIWLw10M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEVDIPt_0tU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VataFqqN-Jo

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JJ Winkel
Senior MemberPosts: 1,387
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Re: Some news and updated pdf
In reply to williamio, 11 months ago

williamio wrote:

Looks really interesting. May I know how much time you took to modify the carts? I dont think I can be that handy

by the way, I am using the original refill carts from Inkrepublic. It works fine without modification. the only downside (probably not a real disadvantage) is the open cover. I took it out by following some tips on

http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=7914

After the initial experiments with one cart, it merely was a job to modify the remaining 8 ones as a serial process, sawing them all at once, sanding, cleaning, glueing, waiting glue to dry and lastly pressure testing.
Doing the remaining 8 ones took me about 2 days including glue drying and filling time.

It really is not very technical, the only requirement is to saw them as flat as possible and you can sand them easily on a flat surface to get the required join quality, do not even need to be perfectly square, of course a mitre saw is a great help.

If not willing to use a clear plexi back, you can reuse part of the sawn off bit as a new back plate but you loose the see-thru convenience. Also if you don't want to mess with relocating the original refill plug, you can simply drill the top rear corner with a 4 mm drill bit and use one of the available silicon plugs as well, you may even be able to make the carts a bit shorter.

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JJ.

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Gesture
Senior MemberPosts: 1,933Gear list
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Re: Some news and updated pdf
In reply to JJ Winkel, 11 months ago

Hopefully, Epson engineers read these forums to get ideas on improving the printers.

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williamio
Regular MemberPosts: 446
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Re: Some news and updated pdf
In reply to Gesture, 11 months ago

Gesture wrote:

Hopefully, Epson engineers read these forums to get ideas on improving the printers.

You and InkRepublic should co-patent this design before Epson.

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jtoolman
Senior MemberPosts: 4,005
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Re: Some news and updated pdf
In reply to williamio, 11 months ago

williamio wrote:

Gesture wrote:

Hopefully, Epson engineers read these forums to get ideas on improving the printers.

You and InkRepublic should co-patent this design before Epson.

I am sure you mean that Epson should patent this so that no one could use this design for a new generation of refillable 3880 / 3800 carts?

The problem I see is this. Though I find the work and research done by JJ Winkel as top notch, I really do not see the advantage of this modification. If the reduction in total size and volume was to allow more consistent pressurization due to the smaller total volume, then yes.

Top filling without having to remove the carts? Yes.

But don't you have to remove and reinsert IR carts to reset the chips?

Disadvantages:

The ink door is still not able to close.

My 80ml refillable cart modification for top filling allows the door to operate normally. No resetting is ever required so only when one needs to agitate the carts ( once every few months ) do the carts ever need to be removed.

Again I do not mean ANYTHING negative over this totally brilliant modification by JJ Winkel and my only point is that the other than the top fill advantage, you still have to trick the ink cover as it is just not able to fully clear the slightly too long modified carts so you might as well have left them alone at their original full size and just refill them every time they reach around 50% to help maintain sufficient operational pressure.

Joe

-- hide signature --

My main printers ( there are more though )
2200/R800/R1900/R2000/R2400/R2880/PRO3800/R340/R380/1400/Artisan 725/Canon Pro9000MKII/Canon PRO9500 MKII
My videos!
New way to refill EPSON OEM carts: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BU6fi9VCOo0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gccxLvfknuE&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zJepnArTdo&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEeDpEIUkkQ&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRr-rUu9hkU&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaQju7xOKy4&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKzxAm9QtWo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRZU1_XD7xE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2X7MSd-ebE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDi1lhDoWjM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iRUoUwwSlA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPV75Ak0R1g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huZ6BlXQqew
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xoJFJVemo8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvrEAam6H_U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGBzHSQx5bU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hh2wuzwezxM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjgQIWLw10M http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fB8QspjBbhk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScojQ7dWAFU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8Zj9dtzeU0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzYreszSdAM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0N-jgaJY94
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ARPQ74_9N0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ARPQ74_9N0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqda4F9YlLU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScojQ7dWAFU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fB8QspjBbhk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGBzHSQx5bU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjgQIWLw10M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEVDIPt_0tU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VataFqqN-Jo

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williamio
Regular MemberPosts: 446
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Re: Some news and updated pdf
In reply to jtoolman, 11 months ago

jtoolman wrote:

williamio wrote:

Gesture wrote:

Hopefully, Epson engineers read these forums to get ideas on improving the printers.

You and InkRepublic should co-patent this design before Epson.

I am sure you mean that Epson should patent this so that no one could use this design for a new generation of refillable 3880 / 3800 carts?

The problem I see is this. Though I find the work and research done by JJ Winkel as top notch, I really do not see the advantage of this modification. If the reduction in total size and volume was to allow more consistent pressurization due to the smaller total volume, then yes.

Top filling without having to remove the carts? Yes.

But don't you have to remove and reinsert IR carts to reset the chips?

Disadvantages:

The ink door is still not able to close.

My 80ml refillable cart modification for top filling allows the door to operate normally. No resetting is ever required so only when one needs to agitate the carts ( once every few months ) do the carts ever need to be removed.

Again I do not mean ANYTHING negative over this totally brilliant modification by JJ Winkel and my only point is that the other than the top fill advantage, you still have to trick the ink cover as it is just not able to fully clear the slightly too long modified carts so you might as well have left them alone at their original full size and just refill them every time they reach around 50% to help maintain sufficient operational pressure.

Joe

> Disadvantages:

> The ink door is still not able to close.

well, I would not take the half-closing ink door as a real disadvantage - it does not affect any functionality at all and not to mention you can remove the ink door and store it in safe area. You can always put it back if you decide to go back to OEM carts. It takes just less than 1 min of your time In fact, I dont know why Epson wants to make an ink door for this printer, a nice finishing? the OEM or inkrepublic's cartridges look great when they line up together. I also like the idea JJ made to make a clear ink level monitors right from the front view. Very SMART way!!

>their original full size and just refill them every time they reach around 50% to help maintain sufficient operational pressure.

I seriously have not encountered any problem like that, do you really have to maintain 50%? not in my case but I do want to maintain at 20 - 30% of inks for some big production.

I also just read the JJ pdf saying the internal ink filter from inkrepublic carts, I believe epson's OEM does not have such component to prolong your refill carts for a longer term usage.

The real disadvantage for other smaller refillable carts which require ink outlet refilling not top refilling, plus the life span of the bladder is limited. That was one of my biggest concern for my fine art printer

over all, very good modification and discussion here. Appreciate JJ and Joe's contribution. One would just need to choose the best solution that fits the needs and requirement.

@W

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Gesture
Senior MemberPosts: 1,933Gear list
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Re: Some news and updated pdf
In reply to williamio, 11 months ago

Can't/has Epson gone the final step and make the system CIS from the start for these very expensive printers.  Then, sell your inks at a competitive price to the 3rd party suppliers and "may the best ink win."  Would really like to know what percent of high-end users (this printer and up) use 3rd party solutions versus Epson cartridges only.

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williamio
Regular MemberPosts: 446
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R3000
In reply to Gesture, 11 months ago

Gesture wrote:

Can't/has Epson gone the final step and make the system CIS from the start for these very expensive printers. Then, sell your inks at a competitive price to the 3rd party suppliers and "may the best ink win." Would really like to know what percent of high-end users (this printer and up) use 3rd party solutions versus Epson cartridges only.

The L series from epson already starts selling CIS like tank, the expensive one has not adopted to this idea yet. Another semi-CIS printer is R3000 using larger ink cartridges. However, I have equipped it with http://www.inkrepublic.com/R3000.asp  for a real CIS printing horse. I really like the idea of R3000 CIS instead of refilling. I was looking for 38xx CIS too but not in the market.

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jtoolman
Senior MemberPosts: 4,005
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Re: Some news and updated pdf
In reply to williamio, 11 months ago

williamio wrote:

jtoolman wrote:

williamio wrote:

Gesture wrote:

Hopefully, Epson engineers read these forums to get ideas on improving the printers.

You and InkRepublic should co-patent this design before Epson.

I am sure you mean that Epson should patent this so that no one could use this design for a new generation of refillable 3880 / 3800 carts?

The problem I see is this. Though I find the work and research done by JJ Winkel as top notch, I really do not see the advantage of this modification. If the reduction in total size and volume was to allow more consistent pressurization due to the smaller total volume, then yes.

Top filling without having to remove the carts? Yes.

But don't you have to remove and reinsert IR carts to reset the chips?

Disadvantages:

The ink door is still not able to close.

My 80ml refillable cart modification for top filling allows the door to operate normally. No resetting is ever required so only when one needs to agitate the carts ( once every few months ) do the carts ever need to be removed.

Again I do not mean ANYTHING negative over this totally brilliant modification by JJ Winkel and my only point is that the other than the top fill advantage, you still have to trick the ink cover as it is just not able to fully clear the slightly too long modified carts so you might as well have left them alone at their original full size and just refill them every time they reach around 50% to help maintain sufficient operational pressure.

Joe

> Disadvantages:

> The ink door is still not able to close.

well, I would not take the half-closing ink door as a real disadvantage - it does not affect any functionality at all and not to mention you can remove the ink door and store it in safe area. You can always put it back if you decide to go back to OEM carts. It takes just less than 1 min of your time In fact, I dont know why Epson wants to make an ink door for this printer, a nice finishing? the OEM or inkrepublic's cartridges look great when they line up together. I also like the idea JJ made to make a clear ink level monitors right from the front view. Very SMART way!!

he clear windows are pure genius! That alone should be the reason to keep that door open. I am slowly beginning to change my mind about the function, if any, of the ink door.

>their original full size and just refill them every time they reach around 50% to help maintain sufficient operational pressure.

I seriously have not encountered any problem like that, do you really have to maintain 50%? not in my case but I do want to maintain at 20 - 30% of inks for some big production.

Since the IR carts are not actually as large as originally reported, then it should not be a problem.

But anything beyond 120ml and I would guess that it would have to re-pressurize more often that normal

I also just read the JJ pdf saying the internal ink filter from inkrepublic carts, I believe epson's OEM does not have such component to prolong your refill carts for a longer term usage.

Of course they don't. They don't need to. The inks live inside and air free aluminized mylar bag. The inks only come into contact with air the head expels it.

The real disadvantage for other smaller refillable carts which require ink outlet refilling not top refilling, plus the life span of the bladder is limited. That was one of my biggest concern for my fine art printer

The bladder in one cart will out live your printer! I've filled and emptied some carts with water over 100 times to ridiculous pressures that I thought would burst the bags.

In fact it causes the cart body to physically bulge out. No problem whatsoever. Like I said the printer will likely wear out before these bags of even the valves do. I would've have proceeded if they could not stand the rigors of refilling.

I've already spent months testing this.

over all, very good modification and discussion here. Appreciate JJ and Joe's contribution. One would just need to choose the best solution that fits the needs and requirement.

@W

Agree 100%

If I had begun with IR or similar carts I would seriously jump at JJ's mod. In my case I simply happen to kept two sets of carts that have come with my two 3800 plus I had bought empties on EBAY so for that reason alone I went the route I did. JJ did some previous preliminary work which cleared up some of my original questions I had. His information made me decide to take the plunge and finally bring the idea to fruition.

Joe

-- hide signature --

My main printers ( there are more though )
2200/R800/R1900/R2000/R2400/R2880/PRO3800/R340/R380/1400/Artisan 725/Canon Pro9000MKII/Canon PRO9500 MKII
My videos!
New way to refill EPSON OEM carts: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BU6fi9VCOo0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gccxLvfknuE&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zJepnArTdo&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEeDpEIUkkQ&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRr-rUu9hkU&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaQju7xOKy4&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKzxAm9QtWo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRZU1_XD7xE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2X7MSd-ebE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDi1lhDoWjM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iRUoUwwSlA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPV75Ak0R1g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huZ6BlXQqew
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xoJFJVemo8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvrEAam6H_U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGBzHSQx5bU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hh2wuzwezxM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjgQIWLw10M http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fB8QspjBbhk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScojQ7dWAFU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8Zj9dtzeU0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzYreszSdAM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0N-jgaJY94
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ARPQ74_9N0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ARPQ74_9N0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqda4F9YlLU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScojQ7dWAFU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fB8QspjBbhk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGBzHSQx5bU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjgQIWLw10M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEVDIPt_0tU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VataFqqN-Jo

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williamio
Regular MemberPosts: 446
Like?
Re: Some news and updated pdf
In reply to jtoolman, 11 months ago

jtoolman wrote:

Agree 100%

If I had begun with IR or similar carts I would seriously jump at JJ's mod. In my case I simply happen to kept two sets of carts that have come with my two 3800 plus I had bought empties on EBAY so for that reason alone I went the route I did. JJ did some previous preliminary work which cleared up some of my original questions I had. His information made me decide to take the plunge and finally bring the idea to fruition.

Joe

Joe, I was actually doing the other way. I got a couple 38xx printers and sold the inbox OEM carts on ebay. Bought the OEM chips from inkrepublic along with the 38xx i-Refill systems. My cost is lower than others since I have OEM carts sold on ebay to cover the expense. Worth to mention here that inkrepublic was very nice to me to send me TWO spare carts for whatever reason. free of charge, and I heard that they do that for every shipment. so I am not that special to receive extra carts. I can follow JJ's instruction and modify carts myself when I have time. It will be really fun I believe.

I really love to watch your youtube channel, a lot of good videos out there. Just an idea about your signature, since you have a long list of youtube videos, why not use a redirect page to list out the youtube video list instead of putting everything in the signature? it will save some space and easier for others when quoting your post. my 2 cents

@W

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