Sensor Size & Versatility

Started Apr 2, 2013 | Discussions
EinsteinsGhost
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Sensor Size & Versatility
Apr 2, 2013

Continued discussion from: Is Full frame still the most versatile?

ljfinger wrote:

Not much...like I said, I use a small waist pack, and that includes a 70-200/2.8, a 24-105, a 15mm fisheye and a 35/1.4.

More than 8 lb of gear, even if held by a thin string does not describe my idea of small and light. OTOH, something like a Sony NEX-6 with 10-18mm f/4 OSS, 20mm f/2.8, 35mm f/1.8 OSS and 50mm f/1.8 OSS offers a far more practical, small and light set of camera and lenses for walk around, about 2 lb. It is something that won't get in the way while stopping for a family dinner on the way either.

It’s marketing. “Pros drive it, and so should you”, is the motto.

Olliess wrote:

No, it really just says "Taurus" on the shell. It has nothing to do with any Taurus you can buy at the dealer.  I don't understand what RWD has to do with it, though.

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Martin.au
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Re: Sensor Size & Versatility
In reply to EinsteinsGhost, Apr 2, 2013

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

Continued discussion from: Is Full frame still the most versatile?

ljfinger wrote:

Not much...like I said, I use a small waist pack, and that includes a 70-200/2.8, a 24-105, a 15mm fisheye and a 35/1.4.

More than 8 lb of gear, even if held by a thin string does not describe my idea of small and light. OTOH, something like a Sony NEX-6 with 10-18mm f/4 OSS, 20mm f/2.8, 35mm f/1.8 OSS and 50mm f/1.8 OSS offers a far more practical, small and light set of camera and lenses for walk around, about 2 lb. It is something that won't get in the way while stopping for a family dinner on the way either.

It’s marketing. “Pros drive it, and so should you”, is the motto.

Olliess wrote:

No, it really just says "Taurus" on the shell. It has nothing to do with any Taurus you can buy at the dealer.  I don't understand what RWD has to do with it, though.

My notes on the last thread.

There is no such thing as a m4/3 14-35 f2 lens.

Trying to beat current mirrorless with FF at the size and weight game is a bad idea. It's not a winnable argument.

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FoolyCooly
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In reply to EinsteinsGhost, Apr 2, 2013

E-PL5 hiding behind my iPhone 4

E-PL5 and 7.5mm fisheye.

I need to apologize to my other cameras... they've been getting ignored since I purchased this little wonder.

Is it more versatile than my other bodies? IDK, YES and NO. It can go more places. Can be adapted to just about any lens you'd want to shoot with and can essentially do everything a larger camera can do. I'd use it for everything but fast action... then again I would't try to use my 5D MK II for action shooting either.

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Draek
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Re: Sensor Size & Versatility
In reply to EinsteinsGhost, Apr 2, 2013

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

More than 8 lb of gear, even if held by a thin string does not describe my idea of small and light. OTOH, something like a Sony NEX-6 with 10-18mm f/4 OSS, 20mm f/2.8, 35mm f/1.8 OSS and 50mm f/1.8 OSS offers a far more practical, small and light set of camera and lenses for walk around, about 2 lb. It is something that won't get in the way while stopping for a family dinner on the way either.

Showing the subjectivity of it all, but... yes, it will. It has for me, at the very least.

One small body (think entry-level SLR or mirrorless), one small prime. That's about the largest camera that'd still allow me to enjoy an event in a manner similar to what I'd do without (my definition of "does not get in the way"), and *certainly* not a bag filled with four freakin' lenses, no matter how small.

Some people don't find a single prime all too flexible, but see 'subjectivity' above; I can and have used lenses with FOVs of ~35mm, ~50mm and ~75mm as my "one and only" at different points in my life, and I've lived quite comfortably with them.

It’s marketing. “Pros drive it, and so should you”, is the motto.

Aided by those suffering from post-purchase rationalization echoing in forums and public discussions.

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olliess
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Re: Sensor Size & Versatility
In reply to EinsteinsGhost, Apr 3, 2013

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

Continued discussion from: Is Full frame still the most versatile?

ljfinger wrote:

Not much...like I said, I use a small waist pack, and that includes a 70-200/2.8, a 24-105, a 15mm fisheye and a 35/1.4.

More than 8 lb of gear, even if held by a thin string does not describe my idea of small and light.

Actually it's more like 12+ lbs. and $8k of camera gear.

ljfinger wrote:

So plan ahead, and take it with you.  Duh.

Unexpected good shots do happen. I don't really strap all that to my fanny every time I go outside.

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olliess
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Re: Sensor Size & Versatility
In reply to Draek, Apr 3, 2013

Draek wrote:

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

It’s marketing. “Pros drive it, and so should you”, is the motto.

Aided by those suffering from post-purchase rationalization echoing in forums and public discussions.

No shortage of extreme rationalization from all sides of the argument, which is what makes these threads so sickly fascinating.  

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joejack951
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Re: Sensor Size & Versatility
In reply to EinsteinsGhost, Apr 3, 2013

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

Continued discussion from: Is Full frame still the most versatile?

ljfinger wrote:

Not much...like I said, I use a small waist pack, and that includes a 70-200/2.8, a 24-105, a 15mm fisheye and a 35/1.4.

More than 8 lb of gear, even if held by a thin string does not describe my idea of small and light. OTOH, something like a Sony NEX-6 with 10-18mm f/4 OSS, 20mm f/2.8, 35mm f/1.8 OSS and 50mm f/1.8 OSS offers a far more practical, small and light set of camera and lenses for walk around, about 2 lb. It is something that won't get in the way while stopping for a family dinner on the way either.

Talk about gear getting in the way. You have three lenses that only partially cover the range of the 24-105/4.

Note that you are missing almost the entire range covered by the 70-200/2.8 zoom. Drop that lens out of the pack and it gets a lot lighter and he still has more focal length flexibility than your kit.

Apples and oranges here.

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Biggs23
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Re: Sensor Size & Versatility
In reply to joejack951, Apr 3, 2013

joejack951 wrote:

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

Continued discussion from: Is Full frame still the most versatile?

ljfinger wrote:

Not much...like I said, I use a small waist pack, and that includes a 70-200/2.8, a 24-105, a 15mm fisheye and a 35/1.4.

More than 8 lb of gear, even if held by a thin string does not describe my idea of small and light. OTOH, something like a Sony NEX-6 with 10-18mm f/4 OSS, 20mm f/2.8, 35mm f/1.8 OSS and 50mm f/1.8 OSS offers a far more practical, small and light set of camera and lenses for walk around, about 2 lb. It is something that won't get in the way while stopping for a family dinner on the way either.

Talk about gear getting in the way. You have three lenses that only partially cover the range of the 24-105/4.

Note that you are missing almost the entire range covered by the 70-200/2.8 zoom. Drop that lens out of the pack and it gets a lot lighter and he still has more focal length flexibility than your kit.

Apples and oranges here.

Agreed.

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EinsteinsGhost
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Re: Sensor Size & Versatility
In reply to joejack951, Apr 3, 2013

joejack951 wrote:

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

Continued discussion from: Is Full frame still the most versatile?

ljfinger wrote:

Not much...like I said, I use a small waist pack, and that includes a 70-200/2.8, a 24-105, a 15mm fisheye and a 35/1.4.

More than 8 lb of gear, even if held by a thin string does not describe my idea of small and light. OTOH, something like a Sony NEX-6 with 10-18mm f/4 OSS, 20mm f/2.8, 35mm f/1.8 OSS and 50mm f/1.8 OSS offers a far more practical, small and light set of camera and lenses for walk around, about 2 lb. It is something that won't get in the way while stopping for a family dinner on the way either.

Talk about gear getting in the way. You have three lenses that only partially cover the range of the 24-105/4.

Note that you are missing almost the entire range covered by the 70-200/2.8 zoom. Drop that lens out of the pack and it gets a lot lighter and he still has more focal length flexibility than your kit.

Apples and oranges here.

I didn't pick his lenses. He picked his own, to advertise what he fits in a "small waist" belt. I picked mine, for focal lengths, I would normally carry which generally is about small, fast primes. If you want to take up the challenge, what kind of weight and size are you looking at with lenses to match the FoV I mentioned with a FF body?

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brianj
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Re: Sensor Size & Versatility
In reply to EinsteinsGhost, Apr 3, 2013

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

Continued discussion from: Is Full frame still the most versatile?

ljfinger wrote:

Not much...like I said, I use a small waist pack, and that includes a 70-200/2.8, a 24-105, a 15mm fisheye and a 35/1.4.

More than 8 lb of gear, even if held by a thin string does not describe my idea of small and light. OTOH, something like a Sony NEX-6 with 10-18mm f/4 OSS, 20mm f/2.8, 35mm f/1.8 OSS and 50mm f/1.8 OSS offers a far more practical, small and light set of camera and lenses for walk around, about 2 lb. It is something that won't get in the way while stopping for a family dinner on the way either.

That's where we are all different, for me the sony NEX-6 with all that other paraphenalia is way over the top in weight and size, I prefer to have a single small belt bag and a small P&S in it.

And I'm sure someone else will call my kit way too cumbersome.

Brian

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EinsteinsGhost
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Re: Sensor Size & Versatility
In reply to brianj, Apr 3, 2013

brianj wrote:

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

Continued discussion from: Is Full frame still the most versatile?

ljfinger wrote:

Not much...like I said, I use a small waist pack, and that includes a 70-200/2.8, a 24-105, a 15mm fisheye and a 35/1.4.

More than 8 lb of gear, even if held by a thin string does not describe my idea of small and light. OTOH, something like a Sony NEX-6 with 10-18mm f/4 OSS, 20mm f/2.8, 35mm f/1.8 OSS and 50mm f/1.8 OSS offers a far more practical, small and light set of camera and lenses for walk around, about 2 lb. It is something that won't get in the way while stopping for a family dinner on the way either.

That's where we are all different, for me the sony NEX-6 with all that other paraphenalia is way over the top in weight and size, I prefer to have a single small belt bag and a small P&S in it.

And I'm sure someone else will call my kit way too cumbersome.

Brian

I would call it insufficient. Sony RX100 is extremely appealing to me as a second camera, but for its limitations I prefer going with ILC body. And if I had to pick just one do-it-all system, it would be Sony NEX.

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Martin.au
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Re: Sensor Size & Versatility
In reply to brianj, Apr 3, 2013

brianj wrote:

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

Continued discussion from: Is Full frame still the most versatile?

ljfinger wrote:

Not much...like I said, I use a small waist pack, and that includes a 70-200/2.8, a 24-105, a 15mm fisheye and a 35/1.4.

More than 8 lb of gear, even if held by a thin string does not describe my idea of small and light. OTOH, something like a Sony NEX-6 with 10-18mm f/4 OSS, 20mm f/2.8, 35mm f/1.8 OSS and 50mm f/1.8 OSS offers a far more practical, small and light set of camera and lenses for walk around, about 2 lb. It is something that won't get in the way while stopping for a family dinner on the way either.

That's where we are all different, for me the sony NEX-6 with all that other paraphenalia is way over the top in weight and size, I prefer to have a single small belt bag and a small P&S in it.

And I'm sure someone else will call my kit way too cumbersome.

Brian

It does appear that the concept that everyone may have different priorities and requirements seems to go way over the head of a few people.

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Jorginho
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Re: Sensor Size & Versatility
In reply to EinsteinsGhost, Apr 3, 2013

It can't do it all. It cannot shoot BIF or sports very well. No long zooms available. Of course, a superzoom like FZ-200 or Sx50 could do it all too. Could do more. In comes IQ. Sony lenses for the NEx cannot do what DSLR lenses can in that department. Samsung and m43s have better IQ in general, a lot better and m43s has a much longer focal length. But even these are not where DSLR systems are yet.

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joejack951
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Re: Sensor Size & Versatility
In reply to EinsteinsGhost, Apr 3, 2013

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

I didn't pick his lenses. He picked his own, to advertise what he fits in a "small waist" belt. I picked mine, for focal lengths, I would normally carry which generally is about small, fast primes. If you want to take up the challenge, what kind of weight and size are you looking at with lenses to match the FoV I mentioned with a FF body?

You commented on the weight of his kit and compared it to the weight of yours. To me, that gave the impression that you saw the two kits as somehow comparable.

You have a field of view of 15-75mm full frame equivalent. If I had to match your focal length range, I'd get a 16-35/4 VR and a 24-85/3.5-4.5 VR lens which tip the scales at a combined 2.5 lbs. As it stands, the widest lens I own is a 24-120/4 VR that I rarely shoot at 24mm. Maybe someday when other things aren't screaming for my money I'll pick up an ultrawide. They seem like fun at times.

FWIW, if I wanted to travel really light and had a D800 (I don't), I could probably get by with just the 16-35/4 VR at 1.5 lbs. and crop to get to 70mm equivalent (leaving me with 9MP images).

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coudet
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Re: Sensor Size & Versatility
In reply to joejack951, Apr 3, 2013

joejack951 wrote:

FWIW, if I wanted to travel really light and had a D800 (I don't), I could probably get by with just the 16-35/4 VR at 1.5 lbs.

D800, Voigtlander 28/2.8, Nikkor 45/2.8. Both lenses are pancakes. How's that for small, light?

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Martin.au
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Re: Sensor Size & Versatility
In reply to joejack951, Apr 3, 2013

joejack951 wrote:

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

I didn't pick his lenses. He picked his own, to advertise what he fits in a "small waist" belt. I picked mine, for focal lengths, I would normally carry which generally is about small, fast primes. If you want to take up the challenge, what kind of weight and size are you looking at with lenses to match the FoV I mentioned with a FF body?

You commented on the weight of his kit and compared it to the weight of yours. To me, that gave the impression that you saw the two kits as somehow comparable.

You have a field of view of 15-75mm full frame equivalent. If I had to match your focal length range, I'd get a 16-35/4 VR and a 24-85/3.5-4.5 VR lens which tip the scales at a combined 2.5 lbs. As it stands, the widest lens I own is a 24-120/4 VR that I rarely shoot at 24mm. Maybe someday when other things aren't screaming for my money I'll pick up an ultrawide. They seem like fun at times.

FWIW, if I wanted to travel really light and had a D800 (I don't), I could probably get by with just the 16-35/4 VR at 1.5 lbs. and crop to get to 70mm equivalent (leaving me with 9MP images).

I like this game.

By my reckoning that puts you at 1578g - 900 for the d800 and 678 for the lens.

For me

OM-D, 12-50, 75-300, 60mm macro, fl300r - 1350g. (That's a small kit I carry quite often).

FF focal length - 24 to 600 with macro.

Add in the 7-14 for 1650g

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FoolyCooly
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Re: Sensor Size & Versatility
In reply to coudet, Apr 3, 2013

coudet wrote:

joejack951 wrote:

FWIW, if I wanted to travel really light and had a D800 (I don't), I could probably get by with just the 16-35/4 VR at 1.5 lbs.

D800, Voigtlander 28/2.8, Nikkor 45/2.8. Both lenses are pancakes. How's that for small, light?

How about EPL-5, Lumix G 14mm f/2.5, Lumix 20mm f/1.7 and Voigtlander Nokton 25mm f/0.95?

Two pancakes and a whopper... The two Lumix lenses will make a pocketable combo but you will have to carry the Nokton in your fannypack.

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Martin.au
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Re: Sensor Size & Versatility
In reply to FoolyCooly, Apr 3, 2013

That probably only puts you at about 800gm. You could chuck in the 40-150 and 12-50 as well.

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Biggs23
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Re: Sensor Size & Versatility
In reply to EinsteinsGhost, Apr 3, 2013

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

I didn't pick his lenses. He picked his own, to advertise what he fits in a "small waist" belt. I picked mine, for focal lengths, I would normally carry which generally is about small, fast primes. If you want to take up the challenge, what kind of weight and size are you looking at with lenses to match the FoV I mentioned with a FF body?

Who cares about weight? I thought we were originally talking about image versatility?

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coudet
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Re: Sensor Size & Versatility
In reply to FoolyCooly, Apr 3, 2013

FoolyCooly wrote:

coudet wrote:

joejack951 wrote:

FWIW, if I wanted to travel really light and had a D800 (I don't), I could probably get by with just the 16-35/4 VR at 1.5 lbs.

D800, Voigtlander 28/2.8, Nikkor 45/2.8. Both lenses are pancakes. How's that for small, light?

How about EPL-5, Lumix G 14mm f/2.5, Lumix 20mm f/1.7 and Voigtlander Nokton 25mm f/0.95?

Sure, not bad. Maybe drop the 20mm and 25mm and just go with Panasonic 25/1.4?

Personally, I like the bigger camera cause of the handling and couple of other reasons, but yeah, easy to get a small and capable combo these days. There's something for everyone.

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