Is Full frame still the most versatile?

Started Mar 31, 2013 | Discussions
zenpmd
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Is Full frame still the most versatile?
Mar 31, 2013

Yes, they are big cameras, but with the constant apeture pro zoom lens they are (probably) the only lenses you will ever need. The DOF equivalent on, say, the new Tamron 2.8 24-70 will never happen on m4/3, since it would require an aperture of 1.4 throughout the zoom range, thats never going to happen!

I suppose its just a shame there is no a 2.8 constant zoom lens that extends to around 85mm on FF that allows for good portraits. 70 is too short.

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jess shudup
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Re: Is Full frame still the most versatile?
In reply to zenpmd, Mar 31, 2013

(oh please.

was it ever?

define versatile.

70mm is too short for what?)

Oops- my bad.

I was just thinking that.  Did I really say it ?!

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Draek
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Re: Is Full frame still the most versatile?
In reply to zenpmd, Apr 1, 2013

Not really, no. Depending on needs and wants, a superzoom, a premium compact, a prime-equipped mirrorless or an APS-C SLR with a cheap zoom are far more versatile than a 35mm camera with constant f2.8 zoom.

Oh, and personally, I think a lens covering 70-135mm is much more useful than one stopping at a mere 85mm, as far as portraiture goes. Though I'll take a 85mm provided it's small and/or fast enough, as well.

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In reply to zenpmd, Apr 1, 2013

zenpmd wrote:

Yes, they are big cameras, but with the constant apeture pro zoom lens they are (probably) the only lenses you will ever need. The DOF equivalent on, say, the new Tamron 2.8 24-70 will never happen on m4/3, since it would require an aperture of 1.4 throughout the zoom range, thats never going to happen!

I suppose its just a shame there is no a 2.8 constant zoom lens that extends to around 85mm on FF that allows for good portraits. 70 is too short.

If there is not a lens among this lot, you are on your own since most pros are quite happy with the selection LOL..........

http://www.dpreview.com/products/Nikon/lenses

http://www.dpreview.com/products/canon/lenses

All the best.

Danny.

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Martin.au
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Re: Is Full frame still the most versatile?
In reply to zenpmd, Apr 1, 2013

zenpmd wrote:

Yes, they are big cameras, but with the constant apeture pro zoom lens they are (probably) the only lenses you will ever need. The DOF equivalent on, say, the new Tamron 2.8 24-70 will never happen on m4/3, since it would require an aperture of 1.4 throughout the zoom range, thats never going to happen!

I suppose its just a shame there is no a 2.8 constant zoom lens that extends to around 85mm on FF that allows for good portraits. 70 is too short.

It depends.

If you don't consider size, weight, or cost, then FF is the most versatile, IMO.

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jonrobertp
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Re: Is Full frame still the most versatile?
In reply to zenpmd, Apr 1, 2013

No. It is hampered by the size of lenses it needs, by shallow dof, by cost, and by portability.

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Biggs23
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Re: Is Full frame still the most versatile?
In reply to zenpmd, Apr 1, 2013

zenpmd wrote:

Yes, they are big cameras, but with the constant apeture pro zoom lens they are (probably) the only lenses you will ever need. The DOF equivalent on, say, the new Tamron 2.8 24-70 will never happen on m4/3, since it would require an aperture of 1.4 throughout the zoom range, thats never going to happen!

I suppose its just a shame there is no a 2.8 constant zoom lens that extends to around 85mm on FF that allows for good portraits. 70 is too short.

IMO, absolutely. In terms of image alone, a FF dSLR can provide you virtually anything you want photographically, making it the most versatile by default. If you're speaking in non-image terms (size, weight, cost, etc.) than that may be a different story.

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DenWil
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Re: Is Full frame still the most versatile?
In reply to Martin.au, Apr 1, 2013

Mjankor wrote:

zenpmd wrote:

Yes, they are big cameras, but with the constant apeture pro zoom lens they are (probably) the only lenses you will ever need. The DOF equivalent on, say, the new Tamron 2.8 24-70 will never happen on m4/3, since it would require an aperture of 1.4 throughout the zoom range, thats never going to happen!

I suppose its just a shame there is no a 2.8 constant zoom lens that extends to around 85mm on FF that allows for good portraits. 70 is too short.

It depends.

If you don't consider size, weight, or cost, then FF is the most versatile, IMO.

Size,  weight  and cost has nothing to do with the versatility of the tool itself.  I would offer that although they  might not receive 100% scores for every possible use -technically, artistically and esthetically-  FF DSLR cameras   will certainly outscore  in totality  cameras that are  smaller, weigh less, cost less  and  do less.  Probably MF cameras as well, since outside of IQ,  MF falters across the board to one degree or another compared to the levels of everything offered in a D4 or 1Dx or D800.

Very few photographers have the luxury  of an IQ first , all the time , ideology.   A 2 pound body is hardly backbreaking  but weight and size is where lots of folks are at. Unfortunately so few of those same folks will acknowledge up front that convenience is the primary criteria  through which their decisions are made.

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jonrobertp
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Re: Is Full frame still the most versatile?
In reply to DenWil, Apr 1, 2013

DenWil wrote:

Mjankor wrote:

zenpmd wrote:

Yes, they are big cameras, but with the constant apeture pro zoom lens they are (probably) the only lenses you will ever need. The DOF equivalent on, say, the new Tamron 2.8 24-70 will never happen on m4/3, since it would require an aperture of 1.4 throughout the zoom range, thats never going to happen!

I suppose its just a shame there is no a 2.8 constant zoom lens that extends to around 85mm on FF that allows for good portraits. 70 is too short.

It depends.

If you don't consider size, weight, or cost, then FF is the most versatile, IMO.

Size,  weight  and cost has nothing to do with the versatility of the tool itself. ...

What ???   lol...they most certainly do...have a LOT to do with the tool. Do you carry a floor jack in the trunk of your car ?   Do you take an 18 cu.ft. fridge with you on an afternoon picnic ?   Small is nearly always better...in many items, including most photographic equipment. (except reflectors)    etc....

Clearly, there is not agreement here on this thread as to how the OP defined his term "versatile".

I would offer that although they  might not receive 100% scores for every possible use -technically, artistically and esthetically-  FF DSLR cameras   will certainly outscore  in totality  cameras that are  smaller, weigh less, cost less  and  do less.  Probably MF cameras as well, since outside of IQ,  MF falters across the board to one degree or another compared to the levels of everything offered in a D4 or 1Dx or D800.

Very few photographers have the luxury  of an IQ first , all the time , ideology.   A 2 pound body is hardly backbreaking  but weight and size is where lots of folks are at. Unfortunately so few of those same folks will acknowledge up front that convenience is the primary criteria  through which their decisions are made.

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Leonard Migliore
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In reply to jonrobertp, Apr 1, 2013

jonrobertp wrote:

What ???   lol...they most certainly do...have a LOT to do with the tool. Do you carry a floor jack in the trunk of your car ?   Do you take an 18 cu.ft. fridge with you on an afternoon picnic ?   Small is nearly always better...in many items, including most photographic equipment. (except reflectors)    etc....

Clearly, there is not agreement here on this thread as to how the OP defined his term "versatile".

Very astute. A 4X5 view camera with swings and tilts is considerably more versatile than a DSLR and has better image quality too. You can also get decently shallow depth of field. But you need a mule to carry the equipment around.

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Martin.au
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Re: Is Full frame still the most versatile?
In reply to DenWil, Apr 1, 2013

DenWil wrote:

Mjankor wrote:

zenpmd wrote:

Yes, they are big cameras, but with the constant apeture pro zoom lens they are (probably) the only lenses you will ever need. The DOF equivalent on, say, the new Tamron 2.8 24-70 will never happen on m4/3, since it would require an aperture of 1.4 throughout the zoom range, thats never going to happen!

I suppose its just a shame there is no a 2.8 constant zoom lens that extends to around 85mm on FF that allows for good portraits. 70 is too short.

It depends.

If you don't consider size, weight, or cost, then FF is the most versatile, IMO.

Size,  weight  and cost has nothing to do with the versatility of the tool itself.  I would offer that although they  might not receive 100% scores for every possible use -technically, artistically and esthetically-  FF DSLR cameras   will certainly outscore  in totality  cameras that are  smaller, weigh less, cost less  and  do less.  Probably MF cameras as well, since outside of IQ,  MF falters across the board to one degree or another compared to the levels of everything offered in a D4 or 1Dx or D800.

Very few photographers have the luxury  of an IQ first , all the time , ideology.   A 2 pound body is hardly backbreaking  but weight and size is where lots of folks are at. Unfortunately so few of those same folks will acknowledge up front that convenience is the primary criteria  through which their decisions are made.

I'd consider size and weight to be critical to the versatility of a tool that's designed to be carried.

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zxaar
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Re: Is Full frame still the most versatile?
In reply to jonrobertp, Apr 1, 2013

jonrobertp wrote:

DenWil wrote:

Mjankor wrote:

zenpmd wrote:

Yes, they are big cameras, but with the constant apeture pro zoom lens they are (probably) the only lenses you will ever need. The DOF equivalent on, say, the new Tamron 2.8 24-70 will never happen on m4/3, since it would require an aperture of 1.4 throughout the zoom range, thats never going to happen!

I suppose its just a shame there is no a 2.8 constant zoom lens that extends to around 85mm on FF that allows for good portraits. 70 is too short.

It depends.

If you don't consider size, weight, or cost, then FF is the most versatile, IMO.

Size,  weight  and cost has nothing to do with the versatility of the tool itself. ...

What ???   lol...they most certainly do...have a LOT to do with the tool. Do you carry a floor jack in the trunk of your car ?   Do you take an 18 cu.ft. fridge with you on an afternoon picnic ?   Small is nearly always better...in many items, including most photographic equipment. (except reflectors)    etc....

But you can take your FF when you go out for picnic. I would argue, there is not a single place where if you can take m43 you can not take FF.  FF is heavier compared to m43 but it is not a fridge so your point is not admissible in the context of discussion.

Clearly, there is not agreement here on this thread as to how the OP defined his term "versatile".

OP clearly saying that the types of photos you would be able to take with FF.

I would offer that although they  might not receive 100% scores for every possible use -technically, artistically and esthetically-  FF DSLR cameras   will certainly outscore  in totality  cameras that are  smaller, weigh less, cost less  and  do less.  Probably MF cameras as well, since outside of IQ,  MF falters across the board to one degree or another compared to the levels of everything offered in a D4 or 1Dx or D800.

Very few photographers have the luxury  of an IQ first , all the time , ideology.   A 2 pound body is hardly backbreaking  but weight and size is where lots of folks are at. Unfortunately so few of those same folks will acknowledge up front that convenience is the primary criteria  through which their decisions are made.

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GodSpeaks
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Re: Is Full frame still the most versatile?
In reply to zenpmd, Apr 1, 2013

zenpmd wrote:

I suppose its just a shame there is no a 2.8 constant zoom lens that extends to around 85mm on FF that allows for good portraits. 70 is too short.

For portraits we have 85mm f1.4 lenses.  Or, if you want something smaller and lighter, there is the 85mm f1.8 lens.

Or you could use a 70-200 f2.8 lens.  That does pass through 85mm, you know.

70mm is too short for what?

Better define versatile.

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GodSpeaks
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Re: Is Full frame still the most versatile?
In reply to jonrobertp, Apr 1, 2013

jonrobertp wrote:

No. It is hampered by the size of lenses it needs, by shallow dof, by cost, and by portability.

Errr, NO.  It all depends on what it is you are trying achieve and what you put first as the most important features.  If size, weight and cost are your prime concerns, then micro43, or maybe the Nikon 1 win.

But for sheer versatility, full frame wins.  Both Nikon and Canon have a complete camera system that far exceeds all others.  That system makes those cameras very versatile.

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Martin.au
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Re: Is Full frame still the most versatile?
In reply to zxaar, Apr 1, 2013

zxaar wrote:

jonrobertp wrote:

DenWil wrote:

Mjankor wrote:

zenpmd wrote:

Yes, they are big cameras, but with the constant apeture pro zoom lens they are (probably) the only lenses you will ever need. The DOF equivalent on, say, the new Tamron 2.8 24-70 will never happen on m4/3, since it would require an aperture of 1.4 throughout the zoom range, thats never going to happen!

I suppose its just a shame there is no a 2.8 constant zoom lens that extends to around 85mm on FF that allows for good portraits. 70 is too short.

It depends.

If you don't consider size, weight, or cost, then FF is the most versatile, IMO.

Size,  weight  and cost has nothing to do with the versatility of the tool itself. ...

What ???   lol...they most certainly do...have a LOT to do with the tool. Do you carry a floor jack in the trunk of your car ?   Do you take an 18 cu.ft. fridge with you on an afternoon picnic ?   Small is nearly always better...in many items, including most photographic equipment. (except reflectors)    etc....

But you can take your FF when you go out for picnic. I would argue, there is not a single place where if you can take m43 you can not take FF.  FF is heavier compared to m43 but it is not a fridge so your point is not admissible in the context of discussion.

And you'd be wrong.

Clearly, there is not agreement here on this thread as to how the OP defined his term "versatile".

OP clearly saying that the types of photos you would be able to take with FF.

I would offer that although they  might not receive 100% scores for every possible use -technically, artistically and esthetically-  FF DSLR cameras   will certainly outscore  in totality  cameras that are  smaller, weigh less, cost less  and  do less.  Probably MF cameras as well, since outside of IQ,  MF falters across the board to one degree or another compared to the levels of everything offered in a D4 or 1Dx or D800.

Very few photographers have the luxury  of an IQ first , all the time , ideology.   A 2 pound body is hardly backbreaking  but weight and size is where lots of folks are at. Unfortunately so few of those same folks will acknowledge up front that convenience is the primary criteria  through which their decisions are made.

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zxaar
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Re: Is Full frame still the most versatile?
In reply to Martin.au, Apr 1, 2013

Mjankor wrote:

zxaar wrote:

jonrobertp wrote:

DenWil wrote:

Mjankor wrote:

zenpmd wrote:

Yes, they are big cameras, but with the constant apeture pro zoom lens they are (probably) the only lenses you will ever need. The DOF equivalent on, say, the new Tamron 2.8 24-70 will never happen on m4/3, since it would require an aperture of 1.4 throughout the zoom range, thats never going to happen!

I suppose its just a shame there is no a 2.8 constant zoom lens that extends to around 85mm on FF that allows for good portraits. 70 is too short.

It depends.

If you don't consider size, weight, or cost, then FF is the most versatile, IMO.

Size,  weight  and cost has nothing to do with the versatility of the tool itself. ...

What ???   lol...they most certainly do...have a LOT to do with the tool. Do you carry a floor jack in the trunk of your car ?   Do you take an 18 cu.ft. fridge with you on an afternoon picnic ?   Small is nearly always better...in many items, including most photographic equipment. (except reflectors)    etc....

But you can take your FF when you go out for picnic. I would argue, there is not a single place where if you can take m43 you can not take FF.  FF is heavier compared to m43 but it is not a fridge so your point is not admissible in the context of discussion.

And you'd be wrong.

???????????????????????????????

Clearly, there is not agreement here on this thread as to how the OP defined his term "versatile".

OP clearly saying that the types of photos you would be able to take with FF.

I would offer that although they  might not receive 100% scores for every possible use -technically, artistically and esthetically-  FF DSLR cameras   will certainly outscore  in totality  cameras that are  smaller, weigh less, cost less  and  do less.  Probably MF cameras as well, since outside of IQ,  MF falters across the board to one degree or another compared to the levels of everything offered in a D4 or 1Dx or D800.

Very few photographers have the luxury  of an IQ first , all the time , ideology.   A 2 pound body is hardly backbreaking  but weight and size is where lots of folks are at. Unfortunately so few of those same folks will acknowledge up front that convenience is the primary criteria  through which their decisions are made.

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Martin.au
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Re: Is Full frame still the most versatile?
In reply to zxaar, Apr 1, 2013

zxaar wrote:

Mjankor wrote:

zxaar wrote:

jonrobertp wrote:

DenWil wrote:

Mjankor wrote:

zenpmd wrote:

Yes, they are big cameras, but with the constant apeture pro zoom lens they are (probably) the only lenses you will ever need. The DOF equivalent on, say, the new Tamron 2.8 24-70 will never happen on m4/3, since it would require an aperture of 1.4 throughout the zoom range, thats never going to happen!

I suppose its just a shame there is no a 2.8 constant zoom lens that extends to around 85mm on FF that allows for good portraits. 70 is too short.

It depends.

If you don't consider size, weight, or cost, then FF is the most versatile, IMO.

Size,  weight  and cost has nothing to do with the versatility of the tool itself. ...

What ???   lol...they most certainly do...have a LOT to do with the tool. Do you carry a floor jack in the trunk of your car ?   Do you take an 18 cu.ft. fridge with you on an afternoon picnic ?   Small is nearly always better...in many items, including most photographic equipment. (except reflectors)    etc....

But you can take your FF when you go out for picnic. I would argue, there is not a single place where if you can take m43 you can not take FF.  FF is heavier compared to m43 but it is not a fridge so your point is not admissible in the context of discussion.

And you'd be wrong.

???????????????????????????????

Well, a really obvious example these days is concerts - where people with M4/3s can get in, even with telephoto lenses, but the "Pro" FF cameras are stopped at the door.

Other than that, there's heaps of examples. I used to use a small DSLR and often it would be left behind during fieldwork and suchlike simply because it was too big.

Clearly, there is not agreement here on this thread as to how the OP defined his term "versatile".

OP clearly saying that the types of photos you would be able to take with FF.

I would offer that although they  might not receive 100% scores for every possible use -technically, artistically and esthetically-  FF DSLR cameras   will certainly outscore  in totality  cameras that are  smaller, weigh less, cost less  and  do less.  Probably MF cameras as well, since outside of IQ,  MF falters across the board to one degree or another compared to the levels of everything offered in a D4 or 1Dx or D800.

Very few photographers have the luxury  of an IQ first , all the time , ideology.   A 2 pound body is hardly backbreaking  but weight and size is where lots of folks are at. Unfortunately so few of those same folks will acknowledge up front that convenience is the primary criteria  through which their decisions are made.

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neil holmes
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Re: Is Full frame still the most versatile?
In reply to zenpmd, Apr 1, 2013

Hi

Not sure it ever was.

I look forward to a FF mirrorless for a reasonable price.

Then I can see a lot of people with a few lenses that will fit a variety of formats

At least I will likely end up with three or four lenses to fit ....

Pentax Q

Nikon 1

Apsc

and FF

The depth of field argument is a bit over rated to me...dof is still  shallow enough for me with fast lenses even on the little Q.  On FF in many cases it is too shallow wide open.

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MoreorLess
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Re: Is Full frame still the most versatile?
In reply to neil holmes, Apr 1, 2013

neil holmes wrote:

The depth of field argument is a bit over rated to me...dof is still  shallow enough for me with fast lenses even on the little Q.  On FF in many cases it is too shallow wide open.

Again I can understand someone not being interesting in shallow DOF themselves but it seems a bit dishoniest to claim that nobody needs it.

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Martin.au
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Re: Is Full frame still the most versatile?
In reply to MoreorLess, Apr 1, 2013

MoreorLess wrote:

neil holmes wrote:

The depth of field argument is a bit over rated to me...dof is still  shallow enough for me with fast lenses even on the little Q.  On FF in many cases it is too shallow wide open.

Again I can understand someone not being interesting in shallow DOF themselves but it seems a bit dishoniest to claim that nobody needs it.

Reads to me like he qualified his opinion appropriately. I think you might be reading a bit too much into that post.

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