Are Macs better than PCs for photography work? If so, why?

Started Mar 31, 2013 | Questions
Fat Dragon
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Re: For power users, the Mac really does win. Here's why.
In reply to gaussian blur, Apr 3, 2013

gaussian blur wrote:

Fat Dragon wrote:

Many times, Apple will replace a machine that has multiple failures with a brand new one, one that's newer than what they had before. In other words, a free upgrade for getting a lemon.

Yes. So will any other manufacturer of computers.

No they don't.

It happens regularly with PC manufacturers. Once the model is out of stock, it's cheaper for replacements to be made with newer models, which is the same reason Apple replaces machines with newer models.

Usually they replace it with the same model, if they do at all, and after a lot of hassle. I've never heard of people getting upgraded for their troubles, and it certainly won't happen with a home-built PC, which you were saying was the way to go.

Components usually come with much more generous standard warranties than systems, and if they go bad within the warranty period but after a couple part generations have passed, there's a good chance the replacement will be current-generation, for the same reason that system manufacturers often send newer replacements - the item being replaced is no longer stocked so they replace it with the newer equivalent.

A few years ago I bought an Airport Express off of eBay that flaked, and when I took it to an Apple Store, they swapped it for a new one on the spot, without any receipt. They just looked up the serial number and saw it had AppleCare (from the previous owner) and grabbed a brand new one off the shelf and handed it to me. I was not expecting that at all.

Warranties for electronics are tied to the serial number - the actual product - regardless of who owns them. If you bought a used HP laptop under warranty, you would have been able to get whatever warranty service or replacement options they offered, just the same as any other manufacturer.

I've also heard of people getting Mac and iPhone/iPad repairs for no charge when out of warranty or obvious user damage (i.e., dropping an iPhone). That's not always going to happen, but it happens enough that it's a distinct possibility.

For every story like this I've heard, I've heard two stories of Apple quoting repair prices for out-of-warranty MacBooks that are higher than what the machine cost brand new. They may treat some people right, but they happily screw others. If you don't live near an Apple Store (the vast majority of the world's population doesn't), service options get sketchy and expensive fast. Maybe this isn't true in the US, but about 96% of the world's population lives outside the US, so that doesn't count for much.

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gaussian blur
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Re: For power users, the Mac really does win. Here's why.
In reply to Fat Dragon, Apr 3, 2013

Fat Dragon wrote:

Many times, Apple will replace a machine that has multiple failures with a brand new one, one that's newer than what they had before. In other words, a free upgrade for getting a lemon.

Yes. So will any other manufacturer of computers.

No they don't.

It happens regularly with PC manufacturers. Once the model is out of stock, it's cheaper for replacements to be made with newer models, which is the same reason Apple replaces machines with newer models.

So someone can take their broken computer to Best Buy or wherever they bought their computer and then walk out with a new computer? Sorry, but yesterday was April Fool's, not today.

Usually they replace it with the same model, if they do at all, and after a lot of hassle. I've never heard of people getting upgraded for their troubles, and it certainly won't happen with a home-built PC, which you were saying was the way to go.

Components usually come with much more generous standard warranties than systems, and if they go bad within the warranty period but after a couple part generations have passed, there's a good chance the replacement will be current-generation, for the same reason that system manufacturers often send newer replacements - the item being replaced is no longer stocked so they replace it with the newer equivalent.

Except when it's an interoperability issue. Each company blames the others. Nobody wants to take the blame, plus it might not be just one single component anyway. Been there done that.

A few years ago I bought an Airport Express off of eBay that flaked, and when I took it to an Apple Store, they swapped it for a new one on the spot, without any receipt. They just looked up the serial number and saw it had AppleCare (from the previous owner) and grabbed a brand new one off the shelf and handed it to me. I was not expecting that at all.

Warranties for electronics are tied to the serial number - the actual product - regardless of who owns them. If you bought a used HP laptop under warranty, you would have been able to get whatever warranty service or replacement options they offered, just the same as any other manufacturer.

Depends on the company. Sometimes warranties are non-transferrable and a lot of times they want an original receipt. Nikon and Canon, for example, only warrants their cameras and lenses to the original purchaser. Buy a used camera or lens and you're on your own, especially from eBay. Even buying new from a seller that's not an authorized seller can sometimes be a problem.

I've also heard of people getting Mac and iPhone/iPad repairs for no charge when out of warranty or obvious user damage (i.e., dropping an iPhone). That's not always going to happen, but it happens enough that it's a distinct possibility.

For every story like this I've heard, I've heard two stories of Apple quoting repair prices for out-of-warranty MacBooks that are higher than what the machine cost brand new. They may treat some people right, but they happily screw others. If you don't live near an Apple Store (the vast majority of the world's population doesn't), service options get sketchy and expensive fast. Maybe this isn't true in the US, but about 96% of the world's population lives outside the US, so that doesn't count for much.

The majority of the world's population doesn't own computers so they don't need to be near an Apple Store. Not that it matters, since Apple will overnight a prepaid box to those not near a store or who don't want to go to one. Pack up the computer, call for it to be picked up and it's usually back in 2 days.

Apple Stores are generally where there are lots of people. There are five Apple Stores in New York City and 12 more in the rest of New York, but only one store in Iowa.

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Fat Dragon
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Re: For power users, the Mac really does win. Here's why.
In reply to gaussian blur, Apr 3, 2013

gaussian blur wrote:

Fat Dragon wrote:

It happens regularly with PC manufacturers. Once the model is out of stock, it's cheaper for replacements to be made with newer models, which is the same reason Apple replaces machines with newer models.

So someone can take their broken computer to Best Buy or wherever they bought their computer and then walk out with a new computer? Sorry, but yesterday was April Fool's, not today.

That happens, I've personally done it. However, in most cases one has to work with the manufacturer, not the reseller. Just like you couldn't typically take a broken iPad into a OneZero (local authorized Apple reseller where I live) and trade it in for a new one. That you live near a store run by your manufacturer is convenient for you, but those who don't live near such a store have to deal with all of the same issues whether they're trying to repair or replace a Mac or any other brand of computer.

Components usually come with much more generous standard warranties than systems, and if they go bad within the warranty period but after a couple part generations have passed, there's a good chance the replacement will be current-generation, for the same reason that system manufacturers often send newer replacements - the item being replaced is no longer stocked so they replace it with the newer equivalent.

Except when it's an interoperability issue. Each company blames the others. Nobody wants to take the blame, plus it might not be just one single component anyway. Been there done that.

Passing the buck is not typical for component manufacturers. They know that some of their components will burn out or be DOA, so they typically work very nicely with consumers. Now, diagnosing problems as an owner can be tricky, but if you're willing to learn a few things, it's typically pretty easy to work these things out.

Warranties for electronics are tied to the serial number - the actual product - regardless of who owns them. If you bought a used HP laptop under warranty, you would have been able to get whatever warranty service or replacement options they offered, just the same as any other manufacturer.

Depends on the company. Sometimes warranties are non-transferrable and a lot of times they want an original receipt. Nikon and Canon, for example, only warrants their cameras and lenses to the original purchaser. Buy a used camera or lens and you're on your own, especially from eBay. Even buying new from a seller that's not an authorized seller can sometimes be a problem.

Fair enough. For computers, the industry standard is that the warranty insures the product, not the buyer.

For every story like this I've heard, I've heard two stories of Apple quoting repair prices for out-of-warranty MacBooks that are higher than what the machine cost brand new. They may treat some people right, but they happily screw others. If you don't live near an Apple Store (the vast majority of the world's population doesn't), service options get sketchy and expensive fast. Maybe this isn't true in the US, but about 96% of the world's population lives outside the US, so that doesn't count for much.

The majority of the world's population doesn't own computers so they don't need to be near an Apple Store. Not that it matters, since Apple will overnight a prepaid box to those not near a store or who don't want to go to one. Pack up the computer, call for it to be picked up and it's usually back in 2 days.

Apple Stores are generally where there are lots of people. There are five Apple Stores in New York City and 12 more in the rest of New York, but only one store in Iowa.

There are eight Apple stores in China and none within 600 miles of my city, even though it's a population center of 8 million. There are tons of people with Apple devices in China, and they don't get mail-in service, they get asked to take their device into a contracted service center that usually charges more than Apple will reimburse and often takes weeks for repairs. This is the norm for most of the world.

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Fat Dragon
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Re: Yes: Retina Display.
In reply to gaussian blur, Apr 3, 2013

gaussian blur wrote:

Fat Dragon wrote:

After 9 months, still nothing like this available besides on a MacBook Pro.

Excellent pixel density, mediocre (at best) color reproduction. Good for viewing photos as a consumer? Alright. Good for editing as a pro? No. Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see higher resolutions available in PC's laptops, but aside from the fact that the OP said nothing about laptops, there are many laptops with better screens than the Retina, and for less money.

Which PC laptop has a display anywhere close to the Retina? Oh right, none. And the colour is very good, with a very wide viewing angle too.

Any PC laptop with an IPS display (there are dozens) has equally wide viewing angles.

The viewing angle isn't its claim to fame, it's the resolution and its colour gamut.

Many of them have better than the 60% color gamut of the Retina display. The colors might look very good to you because the screen is brightly-lit, but that's not worth much.

I don't know where you get the 60% figure. Apple claims full sRGB and tests have shown that to be true.

The fact is that the Retina display is only remarkable in the current laptop market for its resolution. That's often the first thing people look at in a screen's specs because it's the easiest to understand, but it's far from the most important.

Resolution is very important. Otherwise we'd all be using VGA displays. The fact is that the retina display is very, very good. Other companies wish they could have something as good. Just ask people who actually use a Retina display. They won't go back.

I give. Apple is the greatest. They have lots of big numbers that prove it. I'll start my tithe to Apple next month, giving 20% until I've made up for lost time. Steve Jobs was a visionary and a saint and probably had a really big weiner as well. Like, HUGE.

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JohnJ851
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Re: Yes: Retina Display.
In reply to Fat Dragon, Apr 3, 2013

So, you don't have anymore "facts" now!

JohnJ

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vdubreeze
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Um, it's a Mac forum...
In reply to JohnJ851, Apr 3, 2013

As soon as people start yapping about the cult of Mac fanboys, it only shows how closed off they are to be so negatively affected by Apple preferrers that this becomes the focal point of their rant.  I could never imagine not buying a car just because there is a mis-perception that because the owners of said model are so happy with it that it annoys me too much.   I never understood that, but it's your life.

This is a Mac forum.   When you come here and use that as a serious argument for claiming Macs are a waste you just make a fool of yourself and shoot down whatever else you add to it, regardless of any other points you have to make.

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JohnJ851
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Re: Um, it's a Mac forum...
In reply to vdubreeze, Apr 3, 2013

Perhaps you replied to Fat Dragon.

I'm a Mac user.

JohnJ

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Fat Dragon
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Re: Um, it's a Mac forum...
In reply to vdubreeze, Apr 3, 2013

vdubreeze wrote:

As soon as people start yapping about the cult of Mac fanboys, it only shows how closed off they are to be so negatively affected by Apple preferrers that this becomes the focal point of their rant.  I could never imagine not buying a car just because there is a mis-perception that because the owners of said model are so happy with it that it annoys me too much.   I never understood that, but it's your life.

This is a Mac forum.   When you come here and use that as a serious argument for claiming Macs are a waste you just make a fool of yourself and shoot down whatever else you add to it, regardless of any other points you have to make.

I don't like the cult of Mac, so I will not buy a Mac.

I recommend others don't buy Mac because they're overpriced and overrated.

I recognize that these are opinionated arguments. I also recognize that my failure to spend the time to seek out quanitifiable evidence for my arguments is based on a hypocritical premise (that I'm not going to waste any more time on this when I keep coming back and posting). There are multiple examples in this thread where evidence is misused or given too much credence. So be it. I ought to be wiser and just avoid discussions like this because I know they go nowhere and make everybody look like an ass. I have fun with them, though; not in a trolling sort of way, but from a perspective of debunking the flawed logic I run into. It's true that I go beyond that and inject my own flawed logic into the mix. I need to accept that I have no bullets of my own, just the means to knock down the bullets of others when they try to make 1+1=2.1.

We disagree, and that's not going to change. There's no winning for either side. My last post here was a bit childish, but sometimes it's fun to stick out your tongue and say 'nanner nanner boo boo'. Either way, I'll try to steer clear of this from now on, as it's getting nowhere because there's nowhere for it to go.

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vdubreeze
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Re: Um, it's a Mac forum...
In reply to JohnJ851, Apr 3, 2013

JohnJ851 wrote:

Perhaps you replied to Fat Dragon.

I'm a Mac user.

JohnJ

John, yes, sorry.  Wasn't meant to be a reply to a specific post, just a general addition, so I hit the last button to just tack it on, but that was an error.

Sorry for the confusion  :  )

v

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Najinsky
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Re: Well, maybe. But ...
In reply to Fat Dragon, Apr 3, 2013

Fat Dragon wrote:

Najinsky wrote:

No, not at all, it wasn't directed at you personally. The target group was given in the text 'users who haven't used both PCs and Macs earnestly'. What I mostly mean is people who haven't owned OS X based Macs and tried to use them to be productive in their creative content environment (photography, videography, music production, design, etc) or even general purpose computing environment (mail, music, photos, video, office, browsing, hobby, etc).

I agree that those who haven't used both systems earnestly have no business discussing the superiority of one over the other. Ownership is a bit of a high bar for "earnest" use, considering that many people may try a system earnestly or even use it daily at work but not commit to buying.

There is a learning curve to productivity. If you don't commit to the machine, you won't commit to the learning curve and you won't get (many of) the productivity benefits that follow. People who are forced to use a machine at work, using machines that configured and controlled by their IT department, running business support apps, can't really comment about their personal productivity. For this, it needs to be a machine they control and use for personal satisfaction. This obviously extends to small creative occupations like photography, movie making, music making, etc, where their business is also their personal passion.

It may be a high bar, but without it, most of the points made fall into the nonsense or pointless category, as evidenced in by a huge number of posts in Mac V PC 'debates'.

That argument has to cut both ways, too - a Mac user who's been out of PC's since before Windows 7 launched can't really make a legitimate judgement on Windows PC's today, since the system has changed significantly and the quality of the average machine has also improved.

Not feasible. If someone used PCs for 15 years, then switched to Mac for the 5-8 years, they are 5-8 years out of the windows scene. They may still use them at work, but this says nothing to personal productivity (as noted above). Unfortunately, if their work gets disrupted by computer problems, it is going to continue to re-enforce their view and make it seem current.

If someone posts a question about switching from PCs to Macs in the Mac forum, responders can only give their reasons as were current for them. The problem is those views get attacked from multiple angles, when all they were trying to do was help the OP based on their actual and truthful experience.

I definitely fit into the category of those who have not given OSX or Macs an earnest shot at replacing my PCs.

Yet here you are... (meant only in fun)

For that reason, I restrict my judgement to the financial end - I get way more for my money by purchasing Windows PCs from companies that compete with one another in design and pricing, or from building my own computer (in the case of a desktop), as opposed to buying a Mac, so I recommend and personally purchase PCs exclusively.

That's your choice. I know a number of people who only ever travel on budget airlines because their only interest is in getting from A to B cheaply. While others travel business class because they feel it is important to arrive at their destination relaxed and focussed on doing their job. I've done both for a long time and respect both views.

One area I find that technically proficient people sometimes lack in, is an understanding of just how many people are not technically proficient, technophobic in fact. And technophobic describes many of my friends who run their own business. They are not stupid people.

I often got asked to help sort out their PCs. A common problem is at startup, they get tons of messages saying trial periods have expired. They have no clue about what these are or why they show up. So the first thing I do is figure out how to delete or disable or this trial-ware carp that came with their PC. When I delete it, they are amazed I can just delete it. I then have to carefully explain why I can delete it. I learned from experience I had to do this, because otherwise some people get delete-happy and the next phone call is 'help - my computer stopped working'.

I also like the emotional arguments about the cult of Apple, but that's not an ownership issue either

The second point is that Macs and OSX are more meticulously designed through multiple levels of abstraction and from multiple contexts. Many users struggle to put it all into specifics, but they do latch on to how they combine to create a richer experience and will express it as; it just works; I get more done; It's more enjoyable to use, and so on. But then they get shouted at by PC users who just can't see why and demand specifics.

Ah, the classic "if you have to ask why, you wouldn't understand". Love it.

That's what the vacation analogy was for. Small details can make big differences, but there are literally thousands of small details, and finding the combination that would suit or appeal to you, is just guesswork.

-Najinsky

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