Are Macs better than PCs for photography work? If so, why?

Started Mar 31, 2013 | Questions
fyngyrz
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Re: Are Macs better than PCs for photography work? If so, why?
In reply to MikeFromMesa, Apr 1, 2013

MikeFromMesa wrote:

My problem with Macs is that buying one restricts your software options tremendously. Lots of the software I currently doesn't exist for Macs.

One thing about a Mac (OSX) is that you can run Windows and/or linux in a VM. You can't legitimately run OSX under Windows.

So while you can run any windows program on a modern Mac, you can't run any Mac program on a Windows machine.

This can matter, because there are some imaging programs, such as Aperture, which are no available for the PC.

So the best of all worlds turns out to be a Mac.

I run OSX, Windows and linux all at the same time. Admittedly, I'm a power user, but the ability to do so is inexpensive and trivial to manage with VMWare.

So when I want to run my Windows WinImages, no problem. When I want to run my OSX Aperture, I do it in OSX. I can run them both at the same time. Then when I want to run my heavily customized linux version of the Gimp, I just click on it and off I go.

1) Sagelight - a very nice editor, but not available for the Mac,

2) SNS-HDR - my preferred HDR software, but not available for the Mac,

3) Campground Navigator - the software I use to map and find camping sites. Not available for the Mac,

4) Acronis backup software - the software I use to make disc images (my preferred backup method), not available for the Mac,

All of these run just fine in a VM on a Mac. No need for a dedicated Windows machine there.

There are other software packages I use on my PC that are not available for the Mac and some which I believe are available in more limited versions. I also sometimes write software and have the same sort of issue. The software I use (mostly Visual C# and Visual C) are not available for use on the Mac.

Au contraire. I run Microsoft's Visual Studio on the Mac doing C++ development. Works great. I do Windows software work there. No reboots, no inconvenience, just click and run within a Windows virtual machine.

There are alternatives (Java and Objective C) but there seems to be little interest in writing software for such a limited market.

Um... no. As it happens, I'm a software developer, and I've stopped making new software for Windows. I'm still maintaining some packages, hence my continued use of Visual Studio,  but the majority of my work is for the Mac now. You can develop on the Mac in a huge range of languages, including C#, C, C++, and all of the scripting languages from Python to Ruby to whatever. You can use the GCC toolchain, Apple's developer tools, Visual Studio in a VM, linux dev tools... it's a developer's ideal workspace, really.

I have nothing against the Mac and bought an AirBook for my wife. She had it for 2 days and wanted a PC instead. There is something to be said for familiarity of use.

No question about it. But that your wife found an unfamiliar environment... unfamiliar... is hardly relevant to the OP's question, is it?

Once someone *is* familiar with OSX, it is pretty much a doddle to get around in, certainly more so than Windows. But if it's Windows someone needs, OSX doesn't get in the way -- it make it downright easy.

The real trick with OSX is if you don't know your way around, then you're not the one to be picking computers or software. Because like any computer, you can end up with something underpowered for your needs, missing critical software, lacking information you need to be successful, etc.

This is no one's fault other than Apple's (and Microsoft's, when it's Windows we're talking about) but it's a fact: If you have good advice and guidance, success is a great deal more likely.

The bottom line, though, is that a Mac, running OSX, is a terrific platform for running all three of the most common operating systems. Simultaneously. Because of this, right now, in the hands of someone who know what they're doing, it's the most capable platform, hands down.

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Martin.au
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Re: Are Macs better than PCs for photography work? If so, why?
In reply to theJuke2, Apr 1, 2013

theJuke2 wrote:

I'm trying to look for a new desktop which will be dedicated just to my photography work and I won't be using it for anything else. I am a PC person by nature, but I am not opposed to Mac. What are the pros and cons? Everyone I talk to seems to prefer Mac. I'm trying to find some PC users (or past PC users) to get their input and see how they feel about the Mac/PC comparison for photography work. If you are a past PC user, why did you switch? I'm looking for the pros and cons for each. (Please don't give me the "Macs don't get viruses" reason, and please don't tell me that Macs are made with all Mac hardware and processors - that isn't true any more.) I'm looking purely for functionality. Thank you!

I've been pondering this lately.

I've used both systems now for over a decade. I need Windows for my work as it requires lots of niche software. I'm very familiar with both operating systems.

My choice of personal computer is a Mac, with Windows available via VM and Bootcamp. Everything except for the Windows only software is run on the Mac, email, browsing, photos, etc.

So, the big question is why do I prefer the Mac OS. If both OS were equal, then I shouldn't mind as I'm pretty experienced in both of them. However the way I describe it is it feels as though, when I'm working, OS X gets out of the way and becomes invisible. It is more streamlined. This comes down to even simple things like text editing, where on OS X single click is place cursor, double click is select word, triple click is select paragraph.

If you're coming from Windows it will probably not feel like that for quite a while. Ingrained habits take a long time to change.

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MikeFromMesa
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Re: Are Macs better than PCs for photography work? If so, why?
In reply to fyngyrz, Apr 1, 2013

fyngyrz wrote:

One thing about a Mac (OSX) is that you can run Windows and/or linux in a VM. You can't legitimately run OSX under Windows.

So while you can run any windows program on a modern Mac, you can't run any Mac program on a Windows machine.

But the purpose of buying a Mac machine so you can run Windows software in a VM eludes me. If I want to run Windows software I can do that on a Windows machine. A more important question would be - What software can I run on a Mac that I cannot run on a Windows machine. Clearly Aperture, but what else? And is there software that runs on a Mac that does not have a superior alternative that runs on a Windows machine?

All of these run just fine in a VM on a Mac. No need for a dedicated Windows machine there.

As above.

Au contraire. I run Microsoft's Visual Studio on the Mac doing C++ development. Works great. I do Windows software work there. No reboots, no inconvenience, just click and run within a Windows virtual machine.

Interesting. I did not know that. Thanks for telling me. It is never a bad day when I learn something I did not know.

No question about it. But that your wife found an unfamiliar environment... unfamiliar... is hardly relevant to the OP's question, is it?

I was not responding to the OP's question but to the comment by hjr13. I was just pointing out that the Mac OS is not intuitive to some people who have no problem with Windows.

Once someone *is* familiar with OSX, it is pretty much a doddle to get around in, certainly more so than Windows. But if it's Windows someone needs, OSX doesn't get in the way -- it make it downright easy.

I worked in software development for 25 years on a lot of different machines - proprietary hardware, Unix machines, Windows machines, Macs and others. I was (and still am) familiar with OSX and I don't personally think that it is easier than Windows and certainly not easier than Unix to get around and "do stuff".

As with all of this sort of stuff it is a matter of personal opinion.

The real trick with OSX is if you don't know your way around, then you're not the one to be picking computers or software. Because like any computer, you can end up with something underpowered for your needs, missing critical software, lacking information you need to be successful, etc.

This is no one's fault other than Apple's (and Microsoft's, when it's Windows we're talking about) but it's a fact: If you have good advice and guidance, success is a great deal more likely.

Of course. This is generally true of technology of any sort.

The bottom line, though, is that a Mac, running OSX, is a terrific platform for running all three of the most common operating systems. Simultaneously. Because of this, right now, in the hands of someone who know what they're doing, it's the most capable platform, hands down.

I do not wish to get involved in what often becomes a "religious argument". In all of my time doing software development I have run into enough people who were (and are) OSX fanatics. That is fine for them and I am happy if they are happy. I am not saying that the Mac, running OSX, is not a "terrific platform" but so is a PC running Windows if it is used properly. And, for that matter, so is a PC running Linux.

If what someone wants is a capable machine, then it is hard to beat a 5 year old PC running Unix.

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fyngyrz
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For power users, the Mac really does win. Here's why.
In reply to theJuke2, Apr 1, 2013

A Mac with lots of RAM and a good CPU, running VMWare, can give you OSX, Windows and linux. All at once.

So there is no software from any of the three OS's that you cannot run. No limits whatsoever on what you can do with, or to, your images.

You can't do this legitimately on a PC. But you can on a Mac.

I run this way, and I hop around between PC software, Mac Software and linux software without a moment's break or worry. No rebooting, no problems seeing files from one OS to the other, printer drivers in one OS shared with the others, all working just fine.

This is moderately advanced use of a machine, and as I implied at the top, you almost certainly want a "big" Mac to do this with. Mine is 3 GHz, 8 cores, and has plenty of RAM. I run six monitors right now and could go to eight without a problem if I needed more space.

You can also buy a machine too small for your needs (on any platform) and I'd have to say that what you really want is advice from someone who understands what you do, how you like to do it, what might expand that experience without making it less fun and/or good. Not everyone is happy learning new environments; some of us, quite legitimately, just want to process our images.

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gaussian blur
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Re: Get a custom built PC if your main use is photo editing.
In reply to Ken Johnes, Apr 1, 2013

Ken Johnes wrote:

4. you get a lot more for your money than you get from Apple or Hp or dell or anybody. try adding 16 GB ram instead of 8 GB on a mac config from the Apple store and see how much they charge for the additional 8GB RAM ( which you could  get for some 40- 50$  from your local store).buy it- plug it- in start working, no sending anywhere no waiting for few days etc,etc.

You're apparently unaware that most current Macs have user-upgradable RAM, and that third parties sell RAM for them.

try opening your new mac and  plug in one component not sold by apple directly`during the warranty /guarantee period ´and see if they service your mac for free when something goes wrong.( by the way check their RAM upgrade prices;-) )

Memory is a user installable part and will not void the warranty, regardless of who makes it. There's no requirement that memory must come from Apple.

either way nothing comes close to the price/performance/user upgradability of a custom or self built PC.the fact is if you want an affordable 16 or even 32 GB ram, 3.5-4ghz  quadcore system for around 700-1000 $ for photo /video editing the best bet is a custom PC.with mac the same config may run at twice or 3 times the price with not much of a noticable or useful performance boost.

Actually quite a bit does, plus you are ingoring the value of your time. Also, good luck building a laptop, which is what most people are buying these days.

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gaussian blur
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Re: Are Macs better than PCs for photography work? If so, why?
In reply to MikeFromMesa, Apr 1, 2013

MikeFromMesa wrote:

One thing about a Mac (OSX) is that you can run Windows and/or linux in a VM. You can't legitimately run OSX under Windows.

So while you can run any windows program on a modern Mac, you can't run any Mac program on a Windows machine.

But the purpose of buying a Mac machine so you can run Windows software in a VM eludes me. If I want to run Windows software I can do that on a Windows machine.

You can run Windows or Unix software side by side with Mac software and copy/paste between them and access the same files. Many times, it's hard to tell that some apps aren't Mac native.

In other words, Macs run the most software.

A more important question would be - What software can I run on a Mac that I cannot run on a Windows machine. Clearly Aperture, but what else? And is there software that runs on a Mac that does not have a superior alternative that runs on a Windows machine?

Final Cut, Keynote, Xcode (for iOS development), Pixelmator, BBEdit and many, many more.

The bottom line, though, is that a Mac, running OSX, is a terrific platform for running all three of the most common operating systems. Simultaneously. Because of this, right now, in the hands of someone who know what they're doing, it's the most capable platform, hands down.

I do not wish to get involved in what often becomes a "religious argument". In all of my time doing software development I have run into enough people who were (and are) OSX fanatics. That is fine for them and I am happy if they are happy. I am not saying that the Mac, running OSX, is not a "terrific platform" but so is a PC running Windows if it is used properly. And, for that matter, so is a PC running Linux.

There are also Windows fanatics, who refuse to even look at alternatives.

If what someone wants is a capable machine, then it is hard to beat a 5 year old PC running Unix.

Depends on what you need to do. For a lot of people, that would be about the worst possible choice.

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fyngyrz
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Re: Are Macs better than PCs for photography work? If so, why?
In reply to MikeFromMesa, Apr 2, 2013

MikeFromMesa wrote:

fyngyrz wrote:

One thing about a Mac (OSX) is that you can run Windows and/or linux in a VM. You can't legitimately run OSX under Windows.

So while you can run any windows program on a modern Mac, you can't run any Mac program on a Windows machine.

But the purpose of buying a Mac machine so you can run Windows software in a VM eludes me.

Well, that would be because that's not the purpose. The purpose is so you can run Mac software. And Windows software. And linux software. Which is not the same thing at all. Want to run Aperture? You can. You can't do that on a Windows machine. Want to run Logic? You can. You can't do that on a Windows machine. Want to run OmniOutliner? You can. You can't do that on a Windows machine.

And, in addition, you can run windows software.

And, in addition, you can run linux software.

For power users, this is heaven. For those who aren't familiar or willing to explore the wealth of cool stuff available on every platform, it's a meh. But it still isn't "buying a Mac to run windows software."

If I want to run Windows software I can do that on a Windows machine. A more important question would be - What software can I run on a Mac that I cannot run on a Windows machine. Clearly Aperture, but what else? And is there software that runs on a Mac that does not have a superior alternative that runs on a Windows machine?

Yes. Aperture is one of those; it's better than Lightroom by quite a bit. Non modal, better library management, more powerful image adjustment tools, faster. There's a pretty decent sized (though still very incomplete) list of Mac-only apps on Wikipedia somewhere... um... yeah, here.

Interesting. I did not know that. Thanks for telling me. It is never a bad day when I learn something I did not know.

Likewise, and my pleasure. Tomorrow the shoe is likely to be on the other foot several times, lol.

I worked in software development for 25 years

I got 'cha by a little bit. Started in 1970 on "big iron" and built my first microprocessor based machine (a 4004 and a lot of TTL) in 1973. 42 years so far and still coding.

on a lot of different machines - proprietary hardware, Unix machines, Windows machines, Macs and others. I was (and still am) familiar with OSX and I don't personally think that it is easier than Windows and certainly not easier than Unix to get around and "do stuff".

Well, not to put too fine a point on it, but if you want to approach it that way, you can do it the same way, with the same libraries and etc., as linux. It's just that most mac users will look askance at an X environment.

But let me agree that this is a matter of opinion -- I find OSX easier to develop for than Windows. There are annoyances, no question, there are on any platform, but there don't seem to be any particular pitfalls. Even cross platform stuff like Qt seems to work best under OSX, for whatever reason. I can cite examples if you like.

The bottom line, though, is that a Mac, running OSX, is a terrific platform for running all three of the most common operating systems. Simultaneously. Because of this, right now, in the hands of someone who know what they're doing, it's the most capable platform, hands down.

I do not wish to get involved in what often becomes a "religious argument".

That's not a religious point. It's a fact. You can run all three OS's on a Mac. Legally and efficiently and concurrently and in a well-supported manner. You can't do that under Windows. Or linux.

Because these machines can, and do, run anything, then any argument other than hardware based (cost... ultimate CPU speed, etc.) lands in favor of the Mac -- as soon as you say "but I can run X under this other OS" the response is "then it'll run on the Mac", and equality is achieved. Then you add the OSX apps -- which you can't do the other way around -- and software superiority is achieved.

Again, ignoring hardware costs for the moment. It's definitely a power user's environment, but when you climb the ladder, this is, in fact, what you find at the top.

Six monitors, OSX, linux, Windows, all running on one 8-core Mac Pro.

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photo32
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Re: Lemon ratio
In reply to Jacques Cornell, Apr 2, 2013

Majikthize wrote:

Every company makes some lemons, including Apple. Even so, it easily leads the pack in surveys on reliability and customer satisfaction. The support can't be beat, either, especially if you live near an Apple Store.

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'No matter where you go, there you are.'

And if you don't happen to live down the street from an Apple store then you're out of luck. Try buying a replacement part in a hurry that will actually fit a Mac anywhere but Apple.

At least with most PC's (desktops) the components are still largely generic. I have a 4-5 year old Dell Core-i7 desktop and it has performed faultlessly for all that time until a power supply started to fail intermittently. A quick trip to the local PC store and I was out of trouble.

But the OP asked about a photography workstation. You can quote all the consumer reports you want on satisfaction/reliability and somebody will find a conflicting one. The key software runs on both PC and Mac these days and Windows and OS-X are just variations on a theme when all you're doing is running off-the-shelf software.

If you like using a PC and are comfortable then there's no reason to change other than the adventure of it. The Mac really only has the ready-to-go high-res display in the 27" model to separate it from the pack - you just have to look a little harder to find an equivalent display for the PC but they are out there.

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graybalanced
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Re: Lemon ratio
In reply to photo32, Apr 2, 2013

photo32 wrote:

And if you don't happen to live down the street from an Apple store then you're out of luck. Try buying a replacement part in a hurry that will actually fit a Mac anywhere but Apple.

This is only an advantage when the photographer is also technically minded. For photographers who are not also computer-savvy, AppleCare can be a better solution. If the failure is in a disk or RAM, those are in fact generic and can be replaced easily for many models.

If the component is not user-serviceable and there is no Apple Store, you're not out of luck. I have had problems with Apple laptops but under AppleCare, they ship me an express box, I put it in, wait for overnight out/one-day repair/overnight back, so within a couple of days it's back in business with no Apple Store in sight. This may seem slow to a techie, but to a non-techie this is more time-efficient than flailing around inside the case and wandering through Fry's and hoping you bought the right part. By sending it away, those hours can instead be spent on more productive business-related tasks.

I can't speak to this for a desktop though, because in over half a decade no part in my Mac Pro has been able to fail. This is where the consumer reports do make a difference: If your model is rated as more reliable, the question of repair convenience is less likely to even come up.

photo32 wrote:

The Mac really only has the ready-to-go high-res display in the 27" model to separate it from the pack - you just have to look a little harder to find an equivalent display for the PC but they are out there.

I don't get the reasoning here...there is nothing about any Apple 27" monitor to set it apart from the pack. Apple makes no Retina-class desktop monitors; the 2560x1440 resolution of the Apple 27" is the same as others and is actually lower than the 2560x1600 resolution of monitors that are not limited to being 16:9. It is easy to find equivalent generic desktop displays that are equal to or better than any Apple desktop display.

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Fat Dragon
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Re: Get a custom built PC if your main use is photo editing.
In reply to Ken Johnes, Apr 2, 2013

Ken Johnes wrote:

there is no arguing Macs are a better system because of it´s functional simplicity and less virus / software problems but then again it´s a closed system,and there is the biggest problem . upgrading and repairing costs too much compared to other systems once you pass the guarantee period.

I'm in agreement with most of your post. The above, however, is kind've a silly statement. Of course there's arguing - people discuss and argue about this all the time, and since it's subjective, there's no exclusive correct answer to bring the arguments to a halt.

The other thing I'll mention is that, with desktop PC's, you can often get more component power for your buck by buying a big brand desktop like an HP or a Dell, counter to what you suggested. However, to get a reliable desktop with quality parts you will be better off building custom. It's actually really easy to custom-build a desktop yourself, too, you don't need a shop or a neighbor if you do a little research yourself.

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Najinsky
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Re: Well, maybe. But ...
In reply to MikeFromMesa, Apr 2, 2013

If you thought the post was about total users world wide, then I'm afraid you missed the point of the post.

It's about comparative user experience. Of those who have used both PCs and Macs, do the majority prefer Macs or PCs.

PC users who haven't used both PCs and Macs earnestly are not ideally placed to comment about the comparative experience. This of course will not stop them trying, but all they do is demonstrate they don't really appreciate the real world differences between a feature list and an actual experience.

Let's use a very common example that everyone can relate to. Two people buy superficially similar holidays (vacation packages); same town, same class air travel, same star rating hotel offering the same facilities (pool, bar, restaurant, library, games, distant to airport, local amenities, etc), and the same kind of 'added value inclusions', like airport transfers and so on.

While the packages may appear the same in a feature comparison, the two people may end up having very different holiday experiences.

One pool may be small and not well appointed or a bit grungy. One hotel may have a more convenient location for sight-seeing and nightlife. The staff at one hotel may be courteous and helpful, likewise for the airline staff. One airline may have more legroom and have a better tolerance on luggage allowance. One hotel may have nicer rooms with a better shower and nicer views. The food in one hotels restaurant might be mediocre and the staff inflexible about menu variations. One bar might be lively and a great place to meet new people. And it goes on and on into every kind of small detail that ultimately builds into the whole experience.

The features of these two packages were 'the same', but the experiences very different, because what it really comes down to is how well the features and services are delivered.

And after you've travelled a lot, you become aware of how all these small details combine to create very different travel experiences.

I have no problem with PC users who just use the tools to get on with what they want to get on with and are happy with their lot. Good, we're all happy.

It's the ones that can't reciprocate the above I have a problem with. The PC's users who want to blindly criticise Macs despite having no earnest user experience, in the vain hope it will help validate their choice of PC.

They insist on having all the features quoted so they can respond, 'A PC can do that'. And they don't listen even if we take time to try to explain our position in whichever context is flavour of the day.

This is why many of the forum regulars names are thus far missing from this thread. Very few can be bothered to try to help anymore. You get no thanks, only abuse, and the requested opinions ignored.

Out of around 70 million Mac Users, there's probably between 20-40 million with earnest PC user experience. They've vacationed in PC Land and vacationed in Mac Land, and when their next vacation comes around, you can bet a high percentage will be going back to Mac Land because they've become discerning. The package works for them because meticulous attention has been paid to even the smallest details.

And yes, unfortunately that may make them sound a bit arrogant or aloof, especially if that's what opponents want to read into it, but in all fairness, if experience doesn't make you discerning, you aren't doing it right.

I guess given they number of PCs in the world, 70 million can fairly be described as Niche. But it's a large enough and lucrative enough market to keep us going for a few years to come.

-Najinsky

MikeFromMesa wrote:

Najinsky wrote:

Basically, millions of people have switched to Mac, and while for some it wasn't the right move, the overwhelming majority have stuck with it and prefer Mac.

While this is probably true in terms of numbers the Windows is still the overwhelmingly predominant operating system and the PC is still the overwhelmingly predominant OS and both those facts are likely to remain that way for many years to come. I did some googling on Mac vs Windows sales and found that the Mac had climbed from 5th most commonly purchased OS to 3rd but is still behind Linux. That is not saying all that much.

Yes, there are some died-in-the-wool Mac users as there are some died-in-the-wool Windows users but the Mac is still pretty much a niche computer. If you go into an Apple store where I live you will find it very busy, but most people are buying iPods, iPhone and iPads. Not too many Macs.

You can argue that the Mac is a "better" machine (and I would not argue with that) but I well remember the same argument about Beta vs VHS when tape recorders were selling and we all know how that turned out. And, when I spoke with a Mac sales person about buying an AirBook for my wife he immediately told me how easy it was to put Windows on a Mac. That is not exactly the best endorsement for Mac computers running any Mac OS.

If you believe this to be true, it seemingly gives some big advantage to the Mac.

It will seem like a bigger deal if the Mac actually begins to challenge Windows with big numbers. There may be millions of people turning to Macs, but there are still tens of millions of people buying PCs and all of the people I know who are buying computers are doing so with PCs, not Macs. What makes this even more remarkable is that fact that the Apple machines pre-date the sale of Windows machines.

I am not one of those Mac haters. I have used Macs in the past as well as written software for use on a Mac. I am just not blinded by the clever use of statistics. Windows machines account for more than 90% of computer sales in the US and Macs and Linux vie for the rest with Macs behind Linux. As of this point in time sales seems like destiny. You can argue that college students who buy Macs will continue to use them when they become self-supporting adults, but I have been listening to that argument for the past 20-30 years and it still is a Windows dominated market. Mac usage seems to be strictly a nice kind of thing.

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Fat Dragon
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Re: For power users, the Mac really does win. Here's why.
In reply to fyngyrz, Apr 2, 2013

fyngyrz wrote:

A Mac with lots of RAM and a good CPU, running VMWare, can give you OSX, Windows and linux. All at once.

So there is no software from any of the three OS's that you cannot run. No limits whatsoever on what you can do with, or to, your images.

You can't do this legitimately on a PC. But you can on a Mac.

I run this way, and I hop around between PC software, Mac Software and linux software without a moment's break or worry. No rebooting, no problems seeing files from one OS to the other, printer drivers in one OS shared with the others, all working just fine.

This is moderately advanced use of a machine, and as I implied at the top, you almost certainly want a "big" Mac to do this with. Mine is 3 GHz, 8 cores, and has plenty of RAM. I run six monitors right now and could go to eight without a problem if I needed more space.

You can also buy a machine too small for your needs (on any platform) and I'd have to say that what you really want is advice from someone who understands what you do, how you like to do it, what might expand that experience without making it less fun and/or good. Not everyone is happy learning new environments; some of us, quite legitimately, just want to process our images.

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The italicized section above is true only because Apple's terms of service for OSX state that it may only be used on their computers. Monopoly arguments aside, there's no technical specification preventing you from doing the same thing on a PC.

With regards to that system (the bolded '"big" Mac'), it's a several thousand dollar investment and could be outdone by a PC builder with a $2000 budget. Either one is probably out of your budget for an editing machine.

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MikeFromMesa
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Re: Are Macs better than PCs for photography work? If so, why?
In reply to fyngyrz, Apr 2, 2013

fyngyrz wrote:

I got 'cha by a little bit. Started in 1970 on "big iron" and built my first microprocessor based machine (a 4004 and a lot of TTL) in 1973. 42 years so far and still coding.

Well, if we are really comparing by dates you would have to add the 9 years I taught math and computer science at various colleges and Universities around the US, ran a computer center and wrote the software that one of the colleges (and students) used. And the 4 years since I retired, during which I have kept writing software. The 25 years was only the number of years that software development was my primary job for a company that was (supposed to be) a profitable company.

You still have me, but not by quite as much.

That's not a religious point. It's a fact. You can run all three OS's on a Mac. Legally and efficiently and concurrently and in a well-supported manner. You can't do that under Windows. Or linux.

The "religious argument" is which OS or which machine is "better", whatever that term is supposed to mean. It is akin to which language is "better" and the answer largely depends upon what you are trying to do with the tools.

What language is best? Well, it depends. If you are writing architecture based communications software, probably the assembler for that hardware. If you are writing in a high level language but wish to be close to the hardware, perhaps c. If you are writing in a high level language and wish to remain as separate from the hardware as possible you have your choice of quite a few.

The Mac can run 3 OS's concurrently. OK. I will give you that. But, in fact, I have no need to do that and can do what I need on a single machine. Mostly that is Windows but it has also been the Mac and Linux, depending on what I need to do and when I need to do it. I can, of course, run Linux dual-boot on a Windows machine and, quite honestly, I have no desire to run Mac software. I used a Mac, and wrote software for it, for a number of years. After all of that time I was left with the feeling that I was glad to be done with it.

Different people, different opinions.

Again, ignoring hardware costs for the moment. It's definitely a power user's environment, but when you climb the ladder, this is, in fact, what you find at the top.

If I had to pick a power user's environment it would be Unix. And c. Love that language.

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photo32
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Re: Used PC's...4yrs ago BOUGHT an iMac and have NEVER regretted it
In reply to yycPhotog, Apr 2, 2013

But don't forget to pay for the 4 or 5 software package upgrades you need because Apple doesn't bother to maintain compatibility of applications as the OS is upgraded.

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gaussian blur
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Re: Lemon ratio
In reply to photo32, Apr 2, 2013

photo32 wrote:

And if you don't happen to live down the street from an Apple store then you're out of luck. Try buying a replacement part in a hurry that will actually fit a Mac anywhere but Apple.

I do it all the time, from pretty much anywhere. Macs use standard parts, including SATA hard drives (or PATA for older ones), memory sticks, CD/DVD drives, USB peripherals, etc. Or, order it online.

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gaussian blur
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Re: Used PC's...4yrs ago BOUGHT an iMac and have NEVER regretted it
In reply to photo32, Apr 2, 2013

photo32 wrote:

But don't forget to pay for the 4 or 5 software package upgrades you need because Apple doesn't bother to maintain compatibility of applications as the OS is upgraded.

Actually, Apple goes out of their way to maintain compatibility, Classic and Rosetta being two prime examples.

For instance, apps written in 1985 for a 68000 based Mac 512k could run on a PowerPC G4 some twenty years later (under Classic), which has a totally different processor and totally different operating system.

However, the burden is really that of the developer, not Apple. Apps that stick to public APIs generally work quite well for many years and through many OS revisions.

Apple sometimes declares certain APIs as deprecated, which means they still work but will go away at some point in the future. That's a signal to developers to migrate to newer APIs that replace the older ones. Some developers make the necessary adjustments in their apps, while other developers don't bother and then when Apple really does remove those APIs, the app stops working. The fault is the lazy developer.

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JohnJ851
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Re: Get a custom built PC if your main use is photo editing.
In reply to Ken Johnes, Apr 2, 2013

Reg warranty:

I handed in my Mac Pro 2010 in to an Apple store b/c I couldn't start it no matter what I tried and they fixed it overnight, they told me it was the SSD that was defective. I bought the SSD from OWC and installed it when I purchased the machine.

This happened when the machine was 3 month out of warranty.

Guess what, when I asked how much $$ they said "nothing".

JohnJ

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steven168z
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Windows machines cheaper than Mac
In reply to JohnJ851, Apr 2, 2013

Mac only have one maker.

Windows have many OEM maker coy which lower down the Cost of Ownership.

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JohnJ851
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Re: Windows machines cheaper than Mac
In reply to steven168z, Apr 2, 2013

That's your opinion.

I've had Power Mac G5, Powerbook G4, Macbook, iMac and Mac Pro starting 1998 and haven't spend $1 on repair, that might just be luck I don't know.

How can ownership of a PC/Windows be cheaper?

JohnJ

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Multi-SportsMom
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Re: actually some companies dont even do paid service once you open your computer yourself.
In reply to Ken Johnes, Apr 2, 2013

Ken Johnes wrote:

phaedin wrote:

Tom_N wrote:

Ken Johnes wrote:

1. you can decide what components you want in your system and buy it yourself and you can upgrade it anytime you wish, no guarantee problems by opening the PC case

I'm not sure if you realized what you just said:  "you can … guarantee problems by opening the PC case" (!!!)  Not the argument I'd make for a custom-built PC.

That was a creative edit of the original quote - although the original quote wasnt entirely clear, I believe that "no warantee" would have been a more clear choice of wording as opposed to "no guarantee" (purely semantics)

i agree, what i wrote was really confusing .!!

NOPE not at all. I understood it completely. But then I agreed with everything you said.

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