Is it worth selling my D3 for a D4?

Started Mar 30, 2013 | Discussions
Liviu Namolovan
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Re: Short answer: No
In reply to ken6217, Mar 30, 2013

Keep using your D3 until it is not working anymore. Have fun. The IQ is there, in the photos you will take with your D3. The D3 is a highly competent camera. A Nikon of old. Excellently built, great/accurate colors, reliable. Let Nikon sort its problems out. Try to make Nikon to get the message: you simply cannot release faulty pro and semi-pro cameras, cash big money on them, never acknowledge the problems that your customers are confronting with and then to think that you're a top respectable company that cannot be made accountable for the lack of quality plaguing your cameras. And below you'll find an advice from a respected pro photographer:

"Use your camera until it dies– reconsider how much bang-for-the buck you might get out of a new upgrade. For some product introductions, you can count on significant new features and functionality – at least by the specs of the new product compared to the previous generation. But how much will you get out of these new features? If you read enough photography forums, you might get the impression that most photographers constantly need an aperture of f/2.8, a minimum of 24 MPs, the need for clean 6400 ISO images, 7-9 frames per second capability, and generous image buffer that will enable them to take nearly unlimited RAW files without a delay. Really? No doubt that some photographers will indeed make use of such capabilities more than others, but being realistic about our shooting needs is the first step in making wise decisions regarding new product introductions. If we are honest regarding our needs, we will be less enticed to jump on the bandwagon and buy more gear than we need."

Read more: http://photographylife.com/nikon-quality-assurance-and-marketing-gone-wrong#ixzz2P2MTDjkK

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ken6217
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Re: Short answer: No
In reply to Liviu Namolovan, Mar 30, 2013

Thanks for all of the replies.

I would assume that in the 6 years that my D3 was released, and with one model released in the middle (D3s), there would have to be some significant changes with the current model....D4.

I am curious though is the autofocus much better or not. I have no issues with my D3 but was curious, especially with some of the problems mentioned with the B800. I do doubt those issues would present itself anyway with what I shoot.

Ken

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Teleboy
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Re: Is it worth selling my D3 for a D4?
In reply to Jane79, Mar 30, 2013

Jane79 wrote:

The D4 is much better than the D3 and significantly better than the D3s. When buying a fast pro body, I'd definitely go for the D4.

I'll be contrarian and disagree. I say D3s all the way: I've been using my D4 a lot recently and must say the lack of Nikon's traditional AF mode switch on the back of the camera is a pain in the $#$%.

What were Nikon thinking? ...Video, I guess! (I'm hearing from friends at the BBC it's a real demand from broadcasters to the camera makers these days: hence the Canon 1Dc etc.).

T.

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dwight3
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Re: Is it worth selling my D3 for a D4?
In reply to ken6217, Mar 30, 2013

ken6217 wrote:

I have had my D3 since the first month they were released. I was curious is the D4 that much of an upgrade if I don't care about video?

Besides the additional 4mp, is the D4 and huge upgrade?

Thanks,

Ken

Yes and no.

I don't shoot for profit, just for my own enjoyment and documentation of things around the farm (and production of my own advertising stuff).

I had a D3. It disappeared one day last summer. When the insurance check came in I got a D4. Since I don't have both, comparisons are based on my aging memory.

I passed up the D3S upgrade when it came around. I really considered it but decided my D3 was good enough. My photostream is eclectic. I do a lot of photojournalistic stuff which involves indoor work so I depend on the high ISO capability. I occasionally missed having the extra stop of sensitivity that I would have had with the D3S, but the occasions were few so it didn't really bother me. When the D4 came out I looked at the specs and decided I could live with my D3, maybe I'd check out the D4S or the D5.

Since I was forced into the D4, I think the move was worth it for me. I'd say the biggest improvement was the autofocus. My keeper rate in low light situations has doubled, based on focus (but not on composition). The downside to that is that my postprocessing takes longer because there aren't as many shots to just delete out of hand.

I regularly shoot at ISO 5000-10000. It takes a bit of noise reduction in post, but Lightroom does just fine. With the D3 I shot 3200-6400.

The D3 did not have a silent mode but I understand the D3S did. I tried it out a couple times on the D4 and was not greatly pleased, but it is useful in noise-sensitive situations. The limitations are: (1) jpg only; (2) small jpg only; (3) the autofocus in live view doesn't really work all that well for me. It hunts a lot and is much slower than in regular mode. I really miss having RAW available for that.

The D4 has video. I tried it 3-4 times. I'm not a video guy.

I've heard that the skin tones are better on the D4. I don't see a difference. Maybe that's just me.

I don't do sports, so I rarely use the camera on fast-moving stuff. But for low light situations the autofocus is a big improvement. I mostly use 10fps for bracketing, but occasionally when photographing someone speaking I use bursts of shots. When people are speaking their faces can get contorted into the strangest views. It's nice having options to choose from.

Overall, if I had not been forced into it I would still be shooting a D3. Now that I have a D4 I can see the improvement, but if I had forseen what the actual difference would have been I would probably not have shelled out the cash. The D4 is an improvement over the D3 but the difference is not large enough for me to justify moving to it if I had had to pay the entire bill. And I probably would have kept my D3 for backup.

PS: I have a 14-24, 24-70, 70-200. The lens on the camera 2/3 of the time is the 28-300. That disappeared with the D3. I got another. It's flexible, but for the critical shots I use the 14-24-70-200.

PPS: My biggest complaint is the mixed card system. I would have preferred a dual XQD system (or even a dual CF system). I'm waiting for someone to build a combo XQD/CF card reader. Until then I'm shooting CF. I don't want to have two separate card readers because my USB slots are maxed out and I'd have to add usb hubs through my usb hubs.  The video goes to XQD and I download through the camera's USB port. I have an old CF reader so stills go through that. Since I rarely bump up against buffer limits I don't really need the XQD speed and CF is fine for me.

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rayman 2
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Yessss !!!!!!
In reply to dwight3, Mar 30, 2013

The D4 is about 1-2 stops better then the D3 and the D700 !!

Plus its got a little more room for cropping and its got a much better auto white balance...

But to be honest I wouldnt sell the D3  I would keep it as a backup....!

Peter

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dwight3
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Re: Is it worth selling my D3 for a D4?
In reply to dwight3, Mar 30, 2013

The revised layout took me a couple months to get used to. At my age I don't learn as quickly as I used to. But it's now fine. It would probably take me half a year if I had kept my D3 as backup and tried to get used to switching between the cameras.

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dwight3
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Re: Yessss !!!!!!
In reply to rayman 2, Mar 30, 2013

rayman 2 wrote:

The D4 is about 1-2 stops better then the D3 and the D700 !!

Plus its got a little more room for cropping and its got a much better auto white balance...

But to be honest I wouldnt sell the D3  I would keep it as a backup....!

Peter

I'd put it as 1+ stop better based on my experience. I never saw anything 2 stops better (but I'm only at 5K shots so far). Similar to the D3S (reputedly -- I never had a D3S to compare to).

A word on ridiculously high ISO levels. Naturally I had to try out ISO 200,000 to see what it would do. I was able to get images when the light was so bad I couldn't see anything through the viewfinder. The images were not anything I'd like to show anyone (not because of the subject but because of the image quality or lack thereof).

After a few more tries in the 25K - 200K range I decided that ISO 50K was the maximum practical level. At that level I was able to produce reasonable images using a lot of noise reduction and downsampling. I was also able to get almost reasonable images at 200K, but only if I could have gotten a reasonable image at 50K. Images at 200K had horrible color balance that I was unable to correct in LR. I did not try Photoshop. Given the way ISO 200K is produced (by shooting at ISO 12800 and pushing the amplification up, with some jiggering in the signal processing), that result was pretty much what I had expected.

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MPA1
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Re: Is it worth selling my D3 for a D4?
In reply to ken6217, Mar 30, 2013

ken6217 wrote:

I have had my D3 since the first month they were released. I was curious is the D4 that much of an upgrade if I don't care about video?

Besides the additional 4mp, is the D4 and huge upgrade?

Thanks,

Ken

I usually shoot Nikon D3s bodies. Nikon NZ lent me a D4 for a week and, if I could justify spending $17,000 on two of them, I would.

The control layout is better and the subtle changes in shape etc help if you have it in your hand for hours at a time.

The annoyance for me is the fact that the D3 series and the D4 have incompatible batteries, which means that you either need to buy two or you need to carry two chargers, two sets of batteries and so on.

A D4 is NZ$8500 and I would barely get $3500 for a D3s now, so I'd have to find a big chunk of change to make the swap and I do not think I would earn any more money as a result of that expenditure.

I prefer the dual CF slots on the D3s too.

If you want to shoot stills and don't need the speed or robustness of the D4 (and the weight!) then the D800 would probably be better - and cheaper.

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CC88
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Yes for sure
In reply to ken6217, Mar 30, 2013

I own both D3 and D4. Other than dynamic range, color range and tonal range the D4 af is MUCH better than on D3. ¬†Also my D3 locks after 19 uncompressed 14bit nef, the D4 after 75. This is a huge improvements for me.

Also it is much more comfortable and well designed than D3. It is lighter, faster and both new joysticks also for vertical shooting put it on another level of use.

After working with D4, looking at files produced and how much better af work I've never use my D3 apart with old vintage lens or when I need to work with two different lens and changing is not possible.

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RBFresno
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Things I noticed going from a D3 to D4....
In reply to ken6217, Mar 30, 2013

ken6217 wrote:

I have had my D3 since the first month they were released. I was curious is the D4 that much of an upgrade if I don't care about video?

Besides the additional 4mp, is the D4 and huge upgrade?

Thanks,

Ken

HI!

First a disclaimer: I am not a pixel peeper or qualified DSLR tester.

I'm an advanced amateur. So the following are just my own impressions. Some may be wrong, others out of proportion, etc.

I bought the D3 on the first day of its general availability in November 2007, and the D4 about a month after it was released.

Some things that I like about the D4 over the D3:

1. High ISO Performance. Well everyone else has mentioned this, so I will too. I find that ISO 6400 on the D4 is better than ISO 3200 on the D3. This can be huge. And ISO 12,800  seems about equal to ISO 5000 on the D3.

2. Dynamic range. I really notice this when trying to pull details out of the shadows. the D4 is significantly better

3. Focusing. I was naive enough to have thought that I didn't need anything to focus better than my D3. But the D4's focusing, particularly in low light, Is significantly better than the D3. And I can (very occasionally) put a 2x TC on my 500VR and it focuses pretty decently. On the D3, that combination could focus OK on static subjects that had enough contrast, but moving subjects like birds in flight, forget it. The D4 can actually track on moving subjects decently.

4. Vertical Shooting. The D4 is much better designed for vertical (portrait) shooting

5. Sensor Cleaning. Well, it might seem like a "newbie issue, but I don't like to clean sensors! The D4 is much better than the D3 in keeping its sensor clean

6. Video. When I first got the D4, I thought, "OK, it has video, but I'm not going to use it when I can do better with a camcorder that costs a tenth the price". But I've warmed up to the D4's video capabilities. It wa neat being able to grab a video clip of Wild-beasts walloping in theeir great migration and hearing all the bleating sounds! And for those that find minimal advantages of the D4 over the D3s, they are not talking about the video capabilities o f the latter.

7. Time Lapse function. Another thing that it took me a while to notice. But the D4 can do this pretty well, and allowed me to sit in my warm car during a meteor shower while my camera clicked away for hours!

8. Quiet shutter The D3's shutter is not the quietest! The D4 has quiet mode, including a completely silent mode (video capture)

9. Backlit Buttons Again, call we a newbie, but I often had trouble remembering which buttons were which when using my D3 in dark conditions. I really like the D4's backlit buttons!

10. Buffer I don't tend to be one who routinely blasts zillions of rapid frames.BUt when you need it, it's there. For my uses, the D4's buffer seems endless

11. Resolution. Most of the time, I don't need it, but there are other times where it's appreciated and noticeable.

12. Color. Theoretically, since I typically shoot RAW, this shouldn't be much of an issue. But I find the color accuracy of the D4 more consistently than the D3, resulting in sometimes having to do less correction in post processing. And the skin tones in particular seem to come out more consistently with the D4,

D4 Possible Negatives Compared to D3:

1. Batteries and charger. Incompatible with D4

2. XQD and CF cards. The XQD cards work well!. However, I'm a bit concerned that the XQD cards are not appearing on more high end DSLR's and/or camcorders. I hope they won't be orphaned and become a digital version of Betamax....

3. Different body shapes Overall, I prefer the ergonomics of the D4. But My D3 RRS L-Bracket didn't quite firt on the D4, so I had to cough up $180 for a new bracket.

4.Focus Selector button On the D4, it's on the frot, below the lens release button. I prefer it when using lighter lenses, but still fint a bit awkward with heavier lenses like the 200VR and 500VR.

Some of the above might be more or less important to you than it was to me. But I hope that these impressions help.

Best Regards,

RB

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rayman 2
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D4 sample at 12800 iso
In reply to ken6217, Mar 31, 2013

For those of you who want to know what kind of usual quality

you can get with a D4 at 12800 iso with the lighting of a lightbulb of 100 watts at 1 meter (just 1)

away handheld and converted from raw in Lightroom 4.3..... with noise suppression just when the noise goes away...

here is a sample....... lens was the micro nikkor 60mm D and it was a 60th of a second at F6.3.....

note that the color quality is quite good......

Peter

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brianric
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Re: Is it worth selling my D3 for a D4?
In reply to apaflo, Mar 31, 2013

apaflo wrote:

But the big issue with sports is what happens when you shoot at a faster frame rate.  It isn't the exact rate that is an issue, but the buffer.  With a D3 or D3S you get something less than 20 RAW shots before things slow down while the buffer is written to the memory card.  The D3S has a slightly larger buffer and a slightly faster write speed, so it is just noticeably faster  to work with.

The D4 is simply astounding.  At the maximum frame rate you can hold the shutter release button down and it will shoot something like 50 exposures before it so much as hicups.  It will continue from that point on with a slightly slower frame rate!

The effect is that in practice it is very easy to overrun the buffer with either a D3 or a D3S, and then you are dead in the water for a bit.  It is necessary to be careful to save up some buffer space for a needed burst, and not managing it right will result in lost shots at a critical moment.  That just does not happen with the D4.

I have a D3S, buffer is 35 raw shots, and I can count on one hand the number of times I filled the buffer in the last three years.

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Onetrack97
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Re: Is it worth selling my D3 for a D4?
In reply to ken6217, Mar 31, 2013

I would say, don't sell the D3, buy a D4 when it will benefit you.  Use the D3 as a backup or to save the D4 some clicks.

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RickD
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Re: Is it worth selling my D3 for a D4?
In reply to Teleboy, Mar 31, 2013

Once I got used to the new AF switch I liked it better - can do everything w/o taking my eye away from viewfinder. It boils down to personal preference and I don't think the new switch is a step back, just different. Certainly not a reason to not get the camera.

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RickD

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RBFresno
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Abut the "selling" part of your question.
In reply to RBFresno, Mar 31, 2013

RBFresno wrote:

ken6217 wrote:

I have had my D3 since the first month they were released. I was curious is the D4 that much of an upgrade if I don't care about video?

Besides the additional 4mp, is the D4 and huge upgrade?

Thanks,

Ken

HI!

First a disclaimer: I am not a pixel peeper or qualified DSLR tester.

I'm an advanced amateur. So the following are just my own impressions. Some may be wrong, others out of proportion, etc.

I bought the D3 on the first day of its general availability in November 2007, and the D4 about a month after it was released.

Some things that I like about the D4 over the D3:

1. High ISO Performance. Well everyone else has mentioned this, so I will too. I find that ISO 6400 on the D4 is better than ISO 3200 on the D3. This can be huge. And ISO 12,800  seems about equal to ISO 5000 on the D3.

2. Dynamic range. I really notice this when trying to pull details out of the shadows. the D4 is significantly better

3. Focusing. I was naive enough to have thought that I didn't need anything to focus better than my D3. But the D4's focusing, particularly in low light, Is significantly better than the D3. And I can (very occasionally) put a 2x TC on my 500VR and it focuses pretty decently. On the D3, that combination could focus OK on static subjects that had enough contrast, but moving subjects like birds in flight, forget it. The D4 can actually track on moving subjects decently.

4. Vertical Shooting. The D4 is much better designed for vertical (portrait) shooting

5. Sensor Cleaning. Well, it might seem like a "newbie issue, but I don't like to clean sensors! The D4 is much better than the D3 in keeping its sensor clean

6. Video. When I first got the D4, I thought, "OK, it has video, but I'm not going to use it when I can do better with a camcorder that costs a tenth the price". But I've warmed up to the D4's video capabilities. It wa neat being able to grab a video clip of Wild-beasts walloping in theeir great migration and hearing all the bleating sounds! And for those that find minimal advantages of the D4 over the D3s, they are not talking about the video capabilities o f the latter.

7. Time Lapse function. Another thing that it took me a while to notice. But the D4 can do this pretty well, and allowed me to sit in my warm car during a meteor shower while my camera clicked away for hours!

8. Quiet shutter The D3's shutter is not the quietest! The D4 has quiet mode, including a completely silent mode (video capture)

9. Backlit Buttons Again, call we a newbie, but I often had trouble remembering which buttons were which when using my D3 in dark conditions. I really like the D4's backlit buttons!

10. Buffer I don't tend to be one who routinely blasts zillions of rapid frames.BUt when you need it, it's there. For my uses, the D4's buffer seems endless

11. Resolution. Most of the time, I don't need it, but there are other times where it's appreciated and noticeable.

12. Color. Theoretically, since I typically shoot RAW, this shouldn't be much of an issue. But I find the color accuracy of the D4 more consistently than the D3, resulting in sometimes having to do less correction in post processing. And the skin tones in particular seem to come out more consistently with the D4,

D4 Possible Negatives Compared to D3:

1. Batteries and charger. Incompatible with D4

2. XQD and CF cards. The XQD cards work well!. However, I'm a bit concerned that the XQD cards are not appearing on more high end DSLR's and/or camcorders. I hope they won't be orphaned and become a digital version of Betamax....

3. Different body shapes Overall, I prefer the ergonomics of the D4. But My D3 RRS L-Bracket didn't quite firt on the D4, so I had to cough up $180 for a new bracket.

4.Focus Selector button On the D4, it's on the frot, below the lens release button. I prefer it when using lighter lenses, but still fint a bit awkward with heavier lenses like the 200VR and 500VR.

Some of the above might be more or less important to you than it was to me. But I hope that these impressions help.

Best Regards,

RB

-- hide signature --

HI!

I decided to sell my D3, and currently have no back up. Sold it for $1800. But I hadn't used it in a year. if I had sold it sooner, it would have gone for more.

Why?

Well, I'm not a pro and don't need a back up (at the moment). I did however need a back up when I went overseas. that was when I got the D4.

Some of us almost always need a back up though, e.eg. working pro's such as wedding photographers.

But remember, camera bodies tend to lose value (as opposed to good lenses).

I made the mistake of holding onto a D2h; it sat on Craigslist unsold for $400.

In my particular case, if the occasion arises, I might buy a backup. But it's not likely to be a D3, but something that would compliment a D4, not just be a lesser version of a D4 (e.g. D800/800E, D3X, etc.).

Best Regards,

RB

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webrunner5
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Re: Is it worth selling my D3 for a D4?
In reply to Onetrack97, Mar 31, 2013

The D4 is two more generations newer than a D3. Enough said. Like a older camera is going to be better than a newer one. Hard for me me to think of one that ever has been.

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ken6217
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Re: Is it worth selling my D3 for a D4?
In reply to webrunner5, Mar 31, 2013

webrunner5 wrote:

The D4 is two more generations newer than a D3. Enough said. Like a older camera is going to be better than a newer one. Hard for me me to think of one that ever has been.

I would have thought that you pretty much sum it up as well. I guess it is up to me (or any buyer) if it is worth it to make the switch.

I think I will.

Ken

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mikemsphoto
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Re: Things I noticed going from a D3 to D4....
In reply to RBFresno, Mar 31, 2013

Very thorough reply RB, I totally agree with your points.
I would add that on the D4 the auto ISO is easier accessed and and can also be biased for focal length. The rear LCD is bigger and better. Also the dedicated live view button on the back is very handy.
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brianric
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Re: Is it worth selling my D3 for a D4?
In reply to webrunner5, Mar 31, 2013

webrunner5 wrote:

The D4 is two more generations newer than a D3. Enough said. Like a older camera is going to be better than a newer one. Hard for me me to think of one that ever has been.

If an older camera will do everything that you need, then that's a lot better for my pocketbook.

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ken6217
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Re: Is it worth selling my D3 for a D4?
In reply to brianric, Mar 31, 2013

brianric wrote:

webrunner5 wrote:

The D4 is two more generations newer than a D3. Enough said. Like a older camera is going to be better than a newer one. Hard for me me to think of one that ever has been.

If an older camera will do everything that you need, then that's a lot better for my pocketbook.

You can say that about anything. If that's the case, I never should have sold my 1972 Ford Maverick.

Ken

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