Advise on 24-70 f2.8 MKII Not happy with results, advise please

Started Mar 29, 2013 | Discussions
Phil1
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Re: Advise on 24-70 f2.8 MKII Not happy with results, advise please
In reply to ianbrown, Apr 1, 2013

Hi Ian
Thanks for your kind remarks. I have received a lot of help from others on this forum re various problems. My comments were just a distillation of the many useful tips I’ve received and I’m very happy to pass them on in the hope they will be of use to you.
A lot more info can be found in the following two threads which concerned the problems I was having with unsharp photos I was getting sometimes with my new 5DII. In the end I concluded my problem was camera shake or shutter stabbing – quite a revelation as I’ve been taking photos for many decades!
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/50321351
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/50323304
I hope at least some of this will be of use.
Phil

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photonius
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Re: Advise on 24-70 f2.8 MKII Not happy with results, advise please
In reply to ianbrown, Apr 1, 2013

ianbrown wrote:

Phil1 wrote:

There are five observations which might possibly be worth keeping in mind.

Firstly, Canon photos are notoriously slightly soft out of the camera (ooc) and need to be appropriately sharpened (using ‘unsharp mask’ of course).

Secondly, as others have noted here, I feel the Sony photo has been seriously over-sharpened for viewing a large print size (e.g. 100%) (just look at the artefacts on the lady’s eyelids). However, on a small print or viewing sizes it looks impressive! To judge the relative merits of the lenses you would have to give them appropriate amounts of sharpening (which might well be different for each camera and both would in any case depend on the viewing size).

Thirdly, looking at the first print, very little is in exact focus. The sharpest area is her hair at her temple, just to the right of her face (as we look at it). I can’t tell what you focussed on but if it was an eye (as one might expect) perhaps the lens is slightly back focussing. If this is the case try MFA.

Fourthly, you are comparing a zoom (albeit one with a superb reputation) with a fixed focal length lens of impeccable lineage and one might expect there to be slight differences, but whether they are significant at the size you print only you can decide.

The final point is that one might suspect camera shake if a photo is not pin-sharp, although as you have used a SS four ‘times’ the focal length it is not highly likely. However, if the photos were taken handheld, try using a substantial tripod with mirror lock up to see if that makes any difference.

I hope I am not teaching you to suck eggs so apologies if all of this is familiar! I have experienced similar problems with camera shake and lenses needing MFA and I know how worrying unsharp can be. However, I’m sure with a little investigation you’ll be able to eliminate the variables outlined and to get a more meaningful comparison of the two lenses. Please let us know how you get on!

Good luck

Phil

Phil

Many  thanks for your thoughts and ideas, I will certainly take them on board.

one of my main concerns with  the 2.8 was the fact that its didn't have IS I am not the steadiest shooter and I should practice the technique more as I have often relied upon IS.

I hope I would see a significant difference in sharpness between the F4 and the F2.8, I guess if I nail the technique then I may well see the difference. I will try and do some more tests with a more considered approach.

Thanks for your comments, much appreciated

Ian

One solution would be to go with the 24-70 f4 IS for it's IS, also since you mentioned maybe you don't need the f2.8 that often.  For the money you save, you could buy a 50mm f1.8 or f1.4, that gives you even more DOF at f2.0 in a small package and you could use it in those cases when you want to shoot portraits with limited DOF.

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Andrew53
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Re: Advise on 24-70 f2.8 MKII Not happy with results, advise please
In reply to ianbrown, Apr 1, 2013

I think you are looking at the lens the wrong way. Taking a picture with everything in focus in strong light almost any camera and lens combination will give acceptable results.

Take your lenses out for the evening and take some portraits up close and blur the background. Then compare the pictures for sharpness, blur and noise. You will then realize why people buy this lens.

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hotdog321
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Re: Advise on 24-70 f2.8 MKII Not happy with results, advise please
In reply to ianbrown, Apr 1, 2013

As best I can tell on my monitor, the photos look okay. Are you focusing on the eyes? That is key in portraits.

Can you return your lens for a refund? I'm a pro and am delighted with my new 24-70 f/2.8L MKII, but it sounds like you are suffering from buyer's remorse. I think you might be happier with the less expensive version. This lens is awfully expensive and hard to justify unless you really need it or just have tons of disposable income.

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billythek
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Re: Advise on 24-70 f2.8 MKII Not happy with results, advise please
In reply to ianbrown, Apr 1, 2013

Not a good test to show the strengths of the 24-70II.  Shot at f/5.6 with only the center in focus.  Of course, you also have the issues of determining if each picture is really in focus, and if there is camera shake.  Was IS on for the 24-70 f/4 shot?

The 24-70 f/4 is a good lens, only marginally worse than the 24-70II in the center, especially stopped down, and it has IS.  If you can't see yourself using f/2.8 much, there is not much reason to get the 24-70II.  In fact, you might be happier with the 24-105, due to the cheaper cost.  Or stick with the RX-1, if you like the way that RX-1 picture looks.  Everyone is entitled to their own taste.

A better test, though, might be to take a head shot of your wife at f/2.8, blurring out the background.  Then take the same shot at f/4 using the 24-70 f/4, and see which one you prefer.  You could also try taking pictures of moving subjects in low light, and see which lens does better.  Or take some landscapes where the whole frame should be in focus, and take a look at the corners.

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postulio
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Re: Advise on 24-70 f2.8 MKII Not happy with results, advise please
In reply to ianbrown, Apr 1, 2013

I think that your test comparison shots do not play on either of the lens's strengths and are rather poor to begin with. To truly compare the lens's (as well as get the most out of each of them) Set them both to f/4 and tripod and do some landscape or city photographing. Most of your test image is useless (the entire background is dark and blurred) and for all intents and purposes the subject looks just fine in both shots... in fact these could have been taken with a kit lens and looks pretty much the same.

The fact that the lens is capable of 2.8 while the other is 4 is in itself a huge benefit, although loss of IS can be a factor as well, it will only really matter at telephoto landscape shooting, something that isn't really the focus of either lens.

While we are all free to our opinions, ultimately you need to decide for yourself if the results are worth the price of admission. Having said that, I believe that you are not fairly comparing the two, or using the 2.8 to its fullest ability. I do not wish to insult or insinuate anything, but most lenses will look just fine in a controlled studio environment and require little skill to get a good photo out of. You should take the 2.8 out on the town for an afternoon -> late afternoon -> evening shooting session and then judge it. Visit some cafes and mom/pop stores as well as they usually yield interesting subjects and lighting that will make the 2.8 shine.

just by 2 cents. Cheers

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Biosphere
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Re: Advise on 24-70 f2.8 MKII Not happy with results, advise please
In reply to ianbrown, Apr 1, 2013

Hi

I think you're wrong to expect the f/2.8 to wipe the floor with the f/4. You seem to be majoring on centre sharpness where I think you would struggle to see a big difference even if you were to compare against the 24-105 which tends to be bundled as a FF 'kit' lens. In the corners you will see a bigger difference, but again not as much as I think you expected. Looking at the statistical tests that were posted by Lens Rentals and being very hand wavey it looks like you can expect between a 5% to 10% difference in sharpness depending on focal length and whether you're looking at a centre or corner.

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/01/canon-24-70-f4-is-resolution-tests#more-11444

I've bought the f/2.8 about 3 weeks ago and I'm still getting to grips with it. At the moment I can certainly say it's sharp, it's a very snappy focus, whilst features like f/2.8 and weather sealing are important to me. On the other hand I feel like I wouldn't have described it as the sharpest zoom lens ever which is how some reviews did and I get less keepers from a focus point of view than I think I'm entitled to expect based on my experience with my 70-200 f/4 IS. And it's not as sharp as I would have hoped at 70mm and f/2.8, but that seems to be a known weakness. I shoot with a 7D and all of this is a hobby for me. Getting to grips with it has been complicated by very the poor weather this winter(Switzerland) so I've I've only used it 'properly' twice. Once on a rare sunny weekend morning at a local playground with my two boys and once trying to take some portraits of my two youngest nieces for my sister. I think it's a good lens and I got it for around £1350 on the Swiss high street so I'm happy enough to stick with it. I think I could probably go along with one description of it being like having a bag full of f/2.8 primes (with some weaknesses IMO), and I may have plumped for the f/4 if I'd had a chance to use them both, but so be it. I'd be interested in what you finally decide.

To give you a feel for the type of results I'm getting I've posted a few samples at varying focal lengths. Hope you don't mind me doing that on your thread. I'm not trying to pass them off as anything special but they're real life shots as opposed to test charts and there doesn't seem to be that many people shots posted with it on here. The playground stuff is just snapshots really, but between them playing and moving around on the swing and slide it gave me a chance to put it through it's paces and check it's focus speed/accuracy etc. I'm deliberately doing things like shooting wide open (one of it's supposed strengths), high ISO and messy lighting when I really shouldn't just to see how things turn out. The portraits of the nieces were a bit more considered and formal, but fall down in giving you no clue of corner sharpness but I guess nevertheless this is one of the types of photography that this lens is targeted at. I also included one at f/4@70mm to show how it sharpens up there.

Edit: Not sure why EXIF has been lost. In order, the focal lengths are: 24mm, 31mm, 35mm, 50mm, 70mm, 70mm. All at f/2.8 except the last one which is at f/4.0.

Slight front focus from where I intended.

Thought this turned out well given the lack of light and need for quick focus tracking when he came round corner. Slight front focus again though

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ianbrown
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Re: Advise on 24-70 f2.8 MKII Not happy with results, advise please
In reply to Biosphere, Apr 1, 2013

Biosphere wrote:

Hi

I think you're wrong to expect the f/2.8 to wipe the floor with the f/4. You seem to be majoring on centre sharpness where I think you would struggle to see a big difference even if you were to compare against the 24-105 which tends to be bundled as a FF 'kit' lens. In the corners you will see a bigger difference, but again not as much as I think you expected. Looking at the statistical tests that were posted by Lens Rentals and being very hand wavey it looks like you can expect between a 5% to 10% difference in sharpness depending on focal length and whether you're looking at a centre or corner.

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/01/canon-24-70-f4-is-resolution-tests#more-11444

I've bought the f/2.8 about 3 weeks ago and I'm still getting to grips with it. At the moment I can certainly say it's sharp, it's a very snappy focus, whilst features like f/2.8 and weather sealing are important to me. On the other hand I feel like I wouldn't have described it as the sharpest zoom lens ever which is how some reviews did and I get less keepers from a focus point of view than I think I'm entitled to expect based on my experience with my 70-200 f/4 IS. And it's not as sharp as I would have hoped at 70mm and f/2.8, but that seems to be a known weakness. I shoot with a 7D and all of this is a hobby for me. Getting to grips with it has been complicated by very the poor weather this winter(Switzerland) so I've I've only used it 'properly' twice. Once on a rare sunny weekend morning at a local playground with my two boys and once trying to take some portraits of my two youngest nieces for my sister. I think it's a good lens and I got it for around £1350 on the Swiss high street so I'm happy enough to stick with it. I think I could probably go along with one description of it being like having a bag full of f/2.8 primes (with some weaknesses IMO), and I may have plumped for the f/4 if I'd had a chance to use them both, but so be it. I'd be interested in what you finally decide.

To give you a feel for the type of results I'm getting I've posted a few samples at varying focal lengths. Hope you don't mind me doing that on your thread. I'm not trying to pass them off as anything special but they're real life shots as opposed to test charts and there doesn't seem to be that many people shots posted with it on here. The playground stuff is just snapshots really, but between them playing and moving around on the swing and slide it gave me a chance to put it through it's paces and check it's focus speed/accuracy etc. I'm deliberately doing things like shooting wide open (one of it's supposed strengths), high ISO and messy lighting when I really shouldn't just to see how things turn out. The portraits of the nieces were a bit more considered and formal, but fall down in giving you no clue of corner sharpness but I guess nevertheless this is one of the types of photography that this lens is targeted at. I also included one at f/4@70mm to show how it sharpens up there.

Edit: Not sure why EXIF has been lost. In order, the focal lengths are: 24mm, 31mm, 35mm, 50mm, 70mm, 70mm. All at f/2.8 except the last one which is at f/4.0.

Slight front focus from where I intended.

Thought this turned out well given the lack of light and need for quick focus tracking when he came round corner. Slight front focus again though

Firstly many thanks for taking the time to respond.

It looks like I may have been a bit naive in thinking I could take a couple of without tho much preparation or thought. I thought I could take a couple of snaps and would instantly see a difference! I will take your advise and also do some more considered tests.

Ian

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ianbrown
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Re: Advise on 24-70 f2.8 MKII Not happy with results, advise please
In reply to ianbrown, Apr 1, 2013

Many  thanks to everyone for your comments, I will try and manage my expectations and take the lens for a more considered test drive and reevaluate its needs for my type of photography.

Ian

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qianp2k
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Re: Advise on 24-70 f2.8 MKII Not happy with results, advise please
In reply to ianbrown, Apr 2, 2013

Yes except last one at F4.0, all previous ones taken at F2.8 are not tack sharp to my eyes.  They could be two reasons - a) this lens is not really optimized for APS-C but for FF; b) You might need to MFA the lens on your 7D and I read some 7Ds do need fine tune AF.  This 24-70L/2.8 II should be tack sharp at F2.8 on Canon FF cameras.  I don't have exact one but this should be similar - I focus on the Teddy's left pupil 

I have not even MFA the lens and 5DIII supports MFA at both ends of a zoom.

http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/7843305573/photos/2383265/canon-eos-5d-mark-iii_3b4a7371?inalbum=24-70lii-samples

http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/7843305573/photos/2491949/canon-eos-5d-mark-iii_3b4a7370?inalbum=24-70lii-samples

http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/7843305573/photos/2383267/canon-eos-5d-mark-iii_3b4a7361?inalbum=24-70lii-samples

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ianbrown
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Re: Advise on 24-70 f2.8 MKII Not happy with results, advise please
In reply to Biosphere, Apr 2, 2013

Thanks for uploading these images to give me an idea of the quality the lens can produce. I am looking at them on my ipad at the moment so I will take a closer look on the PC tonight.

It looks like you have done a good job on exposure and shutter speed.

thanks for your comments

Ian

Biosphere wrote:

Hi

I think you're wrong to expect the f/2.8 to wipe the floor with the f/4. You seem to be majoring on centre sharpness where I think you would struggle to see a big difference even if you were to compare against the 24-105 which tends to be bundled as a FF 'kit' lens. In the corners you will see a bigger difference, but again not as much as I think you expected. Looking at the statistical tests that were posted by Lens Rentals and being very hand wavey it looks like you can expect between a 5% to 10% difference in sharpness depending on focal length and whether you're looking at a centre or corner.

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/01/canon-24-70-f4-is-resolution-tests#more-11444

I've bought the f/2.8 about 3 weeks ago and I'm still getting to grips with it. At the moment I can certainly say it's sharp, it's a very snappy focus, whilst features like f/2.8 and weather sealing are important to me. On the other hand I feel like I wouldn't have described it as the sharpest zoom lens ever which is how some reviews did and I get less keepers from a focus point of view than I think I'm entitled to expect based on my experience with my 70-200 f/4 IS. And it's not as sharp as I would have hoped at 70mm and f/2.8, but that seems to be a known weakness. I shoot with a 7D and all of this is a hobby for me. Getting to grips with it has been complicated by very the poor weather this winter(Switzerland) so I've I've only used it 'properly' twice. Once on a rare sunny weekend morning at a local playground with my two boys and once trying to take some portraits of my two youngest nieces for my sister. I think it's a good lens and I got it for around £1350 on the Swiss high street so I'm happy enough to stick with it. I think I could probably go along with one description of it being like having a bag full of f/2.8 primes (with some weaknesses IMO), and I may have plumped for the f/4 if I'd had a chance to use them both, but so be it. I'd be interested in what you finally decide.

To give you a feel for the type of results I'm getting I've posted a few samples at varying focal lengths. Hope you don't mind me doing that on your thread. I'm not trying to pass them off as anything special but they're real life shots as opposed to test charts and there doesn't seem to be that many people shots posted with it on here. The playground stuff is just snapshots really, but between them playing and moving around on the swing and slide it gave me a chance to put it through it's paces and check it's focus speed/accuracy etc. I'm deliberately doing things like shooting wide open (one of it's supposed strengths), high ISO and messy lighting when I really shouldn't just to see how things turn out. The portraits of the nieces were a bit more considered and formal, but fall down in giving you no clue of corner sharpness but I guess nevertheless this is one of the types of photography that this lens is targeted at. I also included one at f/4@70mm to show how it sharpens up there.

Edit: Not sure why EXIF has been lost. In order, the focal lengths are: 24mm, 31mm, 35mm, 50mm, 70mm, 70mm. All at f/2.8 except the last one which is at f/4.0.

Slight front focus from where I intended.

Thought this turned out well given the lack of light and need for quick focus tracking when he came round corner. Slight front focus again though

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ianbrown
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Re: Advise on 24-70 f2.8 MKII Not happy with results, advise please
In reply to ianbrown, Apr 2, 2013

Thanks everyone for your comments, I am going to take some more considered test shots today and will upload on a new thread so everyone can comment And hopefully it may help others.

I will do a variety of  shots so hopefully get a more rounded view of these lenses in the real world

If aim really honest this all started when I noticed the 24-70 f4 was a little soft at 50mm, and then I opened the can of worms!

I will title the thread as above but Part Two.

cheers again

Ian

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Rick Knepper
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Re: Advise on 24-70 f2.8 MKII Not happy with results, advise please
In reply to ianbrown, Apr 2, 2013

Coming in late to a thread assures that my comments will only be a regurge of comments already posted but I will second any comments that happen to say the 24-70 II is a fabulous lens.

I couldn't believe my eyes when I reviewed my first images at f2.8 on landscape scenes. Sharp (relatively for f2.8 DoF considerations notwithstanding) right into the corners. And that was on a lens that I had to return. The replacement has been a joy to use. Is the lens magical? No. One still has to practice good photography (not that you haven't, but the images do appear slightly under-exposed)..

For lack of meaningful detail, the images posted won't vividly illustrate the superiority of the 24-70 II. I'd recommend you go find a highly detailed landscape scene, set up with tripod and Live View, and shoot the scene with all apertures. making sure to place your focus point on the same target to assure the same DoF, focus and metering. I would do this with brackets, perhaps set to 7 images with 1/3 increments so that you can be assured that  you'll have a shutter speed that will match for the comparison.

Having said this, I have no idea how the f4 with IS handles. It could be fabulous too. I compared it to the 24-105 at the link below (I don't do test charts myself) and it was clear the f4 IS beat up on the 24-105 in the same FL range. Use this link to compare test charts of the 24-70 II to the  24-70/4 IS and to the 24-105. You'll be able to change lenses, FL & aperture. The test chart used here have close grouped lines that simulate detail.

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=404&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=4&API=3&LensComp=738&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=1&FLIComp=3&APIComp=3

Stopped down, one would be hard pressed not to like the performance of all three aforementioned lenses although you'll be able to see the superiority of the 24-70 II at any aperture in the images at the link.

Several review sites have mentioned that the 24-70/4 IS exhibits some focus shifting which seems odd for a lens that has a macro feature.

ianbrown wrote:

I have the 24-70 f2.8 II and the 24-70 F4 and decided to do some tests to see which to keep.

I expected the 2.8 to wipe the floor with the F4, however I have done some test shots of charts and some real world photos today and in terms of sharpness I guess the 2.8 just edges it. HOWEVER in my opinion I mean edges it, and with the 2.8 being heavier and £550 more expensive I am unsure if its worth the extra given that I loose out on IS and Macro, but yes I apprciate I get an extra stop.

I only use this for ameture use and with the 6D.

To be honest I am not sure what I am looking for in the results of the test charts, all I can say is there is not night and day between these lenses and I guess it probably boils down to how much you use or need the extra stop for indoors etc?

I took some shots at 24/50/70mm and at various apertures and they all look very similar, ok the far edges of the test chart look "slightly" sharper but the center look very similar.

I guess for the type of photography I take, which is mainly city stuff and landscape the f2.8 is not that important, I just expected it to be tack sharp!

here are a couple of snaps which I personally cant see any difference at full res.

I know you should use mirror up and a remote etc which I did with the chart tests but I did these couple handheld as I thought this would be a real world situation.

Any advise or help appreciated

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mu55
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Re: Advise on 24-70 f2.8 MKII Not happy with results, advise please
In reply to ianbrown, Apr 2, 2013

Are you shooting RAW? - i was initially disappointed in my 5D3 before Lightroom supported the RAW files - enough of a difference to NOT see a difference between (good) lenses I think.

If you think they are close, and you'll get more use out of IS and macro then return the 2.8, save the money and weight.

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ianbrown
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Re: Advise on 24-70 f2.8 MKII Not happy with results, advise please
In reply to Rick Knepper, Apr 2, 2013

Rick

Many thanks for taking the time to comment.

I guess it's a case of ensuring your techniques are spot on to maximise the peroramnce of any lens and I agree these two snaps  just don't tell much.

I will try some more considered shots like you describe before making more conclusions.

thanks again

Ian

Rick Knepper wrote:

Coming in late to a thread assures that my comments will only be a regurge of comments already posted but I will second any comments that happen to say the 24-70 II is a fabulous lens.

I couldn't believe my eyes when I reviewed my first images at f2.8 on landscape scenes. Sharp (relatively for f2.8 DoF considerations notwithstanding) right into the corners. And that was on a lens that I had to return. The replacement has been a joy to use. Is the lens magical? No. One still has to practice good photography (not that you haven't, but the images do appear slightly under-exposed)..

For lack of meaningful detail, the images posted won't vividly illustrate the superiority of the 24-70 II. I'd recommend you go find a highly detailed landscape scene, set up with tripod and Live View, and shoot the scene with all apertures. making sure to place your focus point on the same target to assure the same DoF, focus and metering. I would do this with brackets, perhaps set to 7 images with 1/3 increments so that you can be assured that  you'll have a shutter speed that will match for the comparison.

Having said this, I have no idea how the f4 with IS handles. It could be fabulous too. I compared it to the 24-105 at the link below (I don't do test charts myself) and it was clear the f4 IS beat up on the 24-105 in the same FL range. Use this link to compare test charts of the 24-70 II to the  24-70/4 IS and to the 24-105. You'll be able to change lenses, FL & aperture. The test chart used here have close grouped lines that simulate detail.

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=404&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=4&API=3&LensComp=738&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=1&FLIComp=3&APIComp=3

Stopped down, one would be hard pressed not to like the performance of all three aforementioned lenses although you'll be able to see the superiority of the 24-70 II at any aperture in the images at the link.

Several review sites have mentioned that the 24-70/4 IS exhibits some focus shifting which seems odd for a lens that has a macro feature.

ianbrown wrote:

I have the 24-70 f2.8 II and the 24-70 F4 and decided to do some tests to see which to keep.

I expected the 2.8 to wipe the floor with the F4, however I have done some test shots of charts and some real world photos today and in terms of sharpness I guess the 2.8 just edges it. HOWEVER in my opinion I mean edges it, and with the 2.8 being heavier and £550 more expensive I am unsure if its worth the extra given that I loose out on IS and Macro, but yes I apprciate I get an extra stop.

I only use this for ameture use and with the 6D.

To be honest I am not sure what I am looking for in the results of the test charts, all I can say is there is not night and day between these lenses and I guess it probably boils down to how much you use or need the extra stop for indoors etc?

I took some shots at 24/50/70mm and at various apertures and they all look very similar, ok the far edges of the test chart look "slightly" sharper but the center look very similar.

I guess for the type of photography I take, which is mainly city stuff and landscape the f2.8 is not that important, I just expected it to be tack sharp!

here are a couple of snaps which I personally cant see any difference at full res.

I know you should use mirror up and a remote etc which I did with the chart tests but I did these couple handheld as I thought this would be a real world situation.

Any advise or help appreciated

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Rick Knepper, photographer, non-professional, shooting for pleasure, check my profile for gear list and philosophy.

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ianbrown
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Re: Advise on 24-70 f2.8 MKII Not happy with results, advise please
In reply to mu55, Apr 2, 2013

mu55 wrote:

Are you shooting RAW? - i was initially disappointed in my 5D3 before Lightroom supported the RAW files - enough of a difference to NOT see a difference between (good) lenses I think.

If you think they are close, and you'll get more use out of IS and macro then return the 2.8, save the money and weight.

Very good point. For simplicity I kept to JPG however I appreciate ou change get more from a RAW file.

will look to observe this as well

thanks

Ian

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ianbrown
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Re: Advise on 24-70 f2.8 MKII Not happy with results, advise please
In reply to Rick Knepper, Apr 2, 2013

Rick

Justbeen to the link use posted and it certainly shows the 2.8 as being sharper but that was me looking at it o my ipad. I will take a closer look later, thanks again

Ian

ick Knepper wrote:

Coming in late to a thread assures that my comments will only be a regurge of comments already posted but I will second any comments that happen to say the 24-70 II is a fabulous lens.

I couldn't believe my eyes when I reviewed my first images at f2.8 on landscape scenes. Sharp (relatively for f2.8 DoF considerations notwithstanding) right into the corners. And that was on a lens that I had to return. The replacement has been a joy to use. Is the lens magical? No. One still has to practice good photography (not that you haven't, but the images do appear slightly under-exposed)..

For lack of meaningful detail, the images posted won't vividly illustrate the superiority of the 24-70 II. I'd recommend you go find a highly detailed landscape scene, set up with tripod and Live View, and shoot the scene with all apertures. making sure to place your focus point on the same target to assure the same DoF, focus and metering. I would do this with brackets, perhaps set to 7 images with 1/3 increments so that you can be assured that  you'll have a shutter speed that will match for the comparison.

Having said this, I have no idea how the f4 with IS handles. It could be fabulous too. I compared it to the 24-105 at the link below (I don't do test charts myself) and it was clear the f4 IS beat up on the 24-105 in the same FL range. Use this link to compare test charts of the 24-70 II to the  24-70/4 IS and to the 24-105. You'll be able to change lenses, FL & aperture. The test chart used here have close grouped lines that simulate detail.

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=404&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=4&API=3&LensComp=738&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=1&FLIComp=3&APIComp=3

Stopped down, one would be hard pressed not to like the performance of all three aforementioned lenses although you'll be able to see the superiority of the 24-70 II at any aperture in the images at the link.

Several review sites have mentioned that the 24-70/4 IS exhibits some focus shifting which seems odd for a lens that has a macro feature.

ianbrown wrote:

I have the 24-70 f2.8 II and the 24-70 F4 and decided to do some tests to see which to keep.

I expected the 2.8 to wipe the floor with the F4, however I have done some test shots of charts and some real world photos today and in terms of sharpness I guess the 2.8 just edges it. HOWEVER in my opinion I mean edges it, and with the 2.8 being heavier and £550 more expensive I am unsure if its worth the extra given that I loose out on IS and Macro, but yes I apprciate I get an extra stop.

I only use this for ameture use and with the 6D.

To be honest I am not sure what I am looking for in the results of the test charts, all I can say is there is not night and day between these lenses and I guess it probably boils down to how much you use or need the extra stop for indoors etc?

I took some shots at 24/50/70mm and at various apertures and they all look very similar, ok the far edges of the test chart look "slightly" sharper but the center look very similar.

I guess for the type of photography I take, which is mainly city stuff and landscape the f2.8 is not that important, I just expected it to be tack sharp!

here are a couple of snaps which I personally cant see any difference at full res.

I know you should use mirror up and a remote etc which I did with the chart tests but I did these couple handheld as I thought this would be a real world situation.

Any advise or help appreciated

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qianp2k
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Re: Advise on 24-70 f2.8 MKII Not happy with results, advise please
In reply to ianbrown, Apr 2, 2013

To OP:  not sure if you have noticed my two 100% cropped samples that can show the optical quality from this lens.  Here again,

1) 100% cropped Mayan Temple at Chichen Itza

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B3MrYp_nWjPGQ0FDRHJTMzYyTDA/edit?usp=sharing

2) 100% cropped Mayan worrier

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B3MrYp_nWjPGV2UzaTVsbGFneVU/edit?usp=sharing

As a matter of fact, most photos in my recent Cancun trip were delivered by this lens that should give you a sufficient idea to judge this lens (best view is thru Slideshow mode due to stupid design of Zenfolio framing limit). I'm personally very satisfied with this lens.

http://qianp2k.zenfolio.com/f1013261537

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mu55
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Re: Advise on 24-70 f2.8 MKII Not happy with results, advise please
In reply to ianbrown, Apr 3, 2013

ianbrown wrote:

mu55 wrote:

Are you shooting RAW? - i was initially disappointed in my 5D3 before Lightroom supported the RAW files - enough of a difference to NOT see a difference between (good) lenses I think.

If you think they are close, and you'll get more use out of IS and macro then return the 2.8, save the money and weight.

Very good point. For simplicity I kept to JPG however I appreciate ou change get more from a RAW file.

will look to observe this as well

thanks

Ian

The main thing i first noticed was detail in grass - night and day difference and certainly enough to mask the difference between good lenses

another thought would be to not forget the 24-105L - still a handy lens to have around even with my 24-70

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Johnyguy
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Re: Advise on 24-70 f2.8 MKII Not happy with results, advise please
In reply to ianbrown, Apr 4, 2013

ianbrown wrote:

I have the 24-70 f2.8 II and the 24-70 F4 and decided to do some tests to see which to keep.

I expected the 2.8 to wipe the floor with the F4, however I have done some test shots of charts and some real world photos today and in terms of sharpness I guess the 2.8 just edges it. HOWEVER in my opinion I mean edges it, and with the 2.8 being heavier and £550 more expensive I am unsure if its worth the extra given that I loose out on IS and Macro, but yes I apprciate I get an extra stop.

I only use this for ameture use and with the 6D.

To be honest I am not sure what I am looking for in the results of the test charts, all I can say is there is not night and day between these lenses and I guess it probably boils down to how much you use or need the extra stop for indoors etc?

I took some shots at 24/50/70mm and at various apertures and they all look very similar, ok the far edges of the test chart look "slightly" sharper but the center look very similar.

I guess for the type of photography I take, which is mainly city stuff and landscape the f2.8 is not that important, I just expected it to be tack sharp!

here are a couple of snaps which I personally cant see any difference at full res.

I know you should use mirror up and a remote etc which I did with the chart tests but I did these couple handheld as I thought this would be a real world situation.

Any advise or help appreciated

I think i see the differences on the first picture the lady smiling and on the second one she is not because she is is not happy with the sharpnes:-)

Shot ...i just saw the op post and wrote my reply but someone already bit me on this one,haha at least im not the only one who thought of that! Hehe

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