EPL 5 or NEX 5R

Started Mar 29, 2013 | Questions
BlbGB
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EPL 5 or NEX 5R
Mar 29, 2013

I was ready to order the EPL 5, and ran into someone at a party that really praised their NEX. I had seriously looked at the NEX and it just reminded me of all of the reasons I almost bought the 5R. I am unable to get my hands on an Olympus, and would rather not purchase something online and have to ship it back because I don't like it. What are some of the less obvious differences? How well does the Olympus do panoramic, I hear Sony does it very well. Both remote flash capable? Focus during video? Anyone else go through this decision making process...

I am upgrading from point and shoot. Will be shooting my young kids( indoor and outdoor moving around), macro, and little landscape right now. But am interested in learning more.

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Jorginho
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Re: EPL 5 or NEX 5R
In reply to BlbGB, Mar 29, 2013

I have the EPl5 and am very happy with it.

Compared to my GH2 I think IBIS is the nicest thing. All lenses are stabilized now. Even nicer: there is a setting which I use that uses OIS when an OIS lens is mounted and IBIS when a non stabilised lens is mounted. I have compared both and OIS is just slightly better. I gain 2,5 stops with IBIS. NEX5R can't do that.

Another point is that the lenses for NEX are scarce and bar a few they are not as good as mFT lenses. Also: they are most of the time faster. Also: the lenses are sharp wide open, this is not the case with by far the most Sony lenses. This means you need to stop down on many occassions which means object isolation, a strength of APS-c sensors, becomes less well defined.

Can you mount an EVF on a NEX? Doe sit have a tilting display ( I think it does).

But the main advantage still is the in Body stabilsation and lens choice/lens size. mFT lenses, certainly when you want to use zooms are considerably smaller.

NEX ahs advantages too: focus peaking for manual focussed lenses. even thoigh the difference is really small, the NEX sensor is still slightly better. That's about it I think.

But....I would direct you to the new Samsung NX300 and/or NEX6. You have moving kids. NEX6 seems to track moving subjects well, my Olympus is soso. Can do it, but not that good. mFt is falling behind here. The new Samsung NX300 has (in theory) similar AF as the NEX6. Samsungs lenses are cheap and they are really well built. Good IQ. So check that out too.

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BlbGB
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Re: EPL 5 or NEX 5R
In reply to Jorginho, Mar 29, 2013

Jorginho wrote:

I have the EPl5 and am very happy with it.

Compared to my GH2 I think IBIS is the nicest thing. All lenses are stabilized now. Even nicer: there is a setting which I use that uses OIS when an OIS lens is mounted and IBIS when a non stabilised lens is mounted. I have compared both and OIS is just slightly better. I gain 2,5 stops with IBIS. NEX5R can't do that.

Another point is that the lenses for NEX are scarce and bar a few they are not as good as mFT lenses. Also: they are most of the time faster. Also: the lenses are sharp wide open, this is not the case with by far the most Sony lenses. This means you need to stop down on many occassions which means object isolation, a strength of APS-c sensors, becomes less well defined.

Can you mount an EVF on a NEX? Doe sit have a tilting display ( I think it does).

But the main advantage still is the in Body stabilsation and lens choice/lens size. mFT lenses, certainly when you want to use zooms are considerably smaller.

NEX ahs advantages too: focus peaking for manual focussed lenses. even thoigh the difference is really small, the NEX sensor is still slightly better. That's about it I think.

But....I would direct you to the new Samsung NX300 and/or NEX6. You have moving kids. NEX6 seems to track moving subjects well, my Olympus is soso. Can do it, but not that good. mFt is falling behind here. The new Samsung NX300 has (in theory) similar AF as the NEX6. Samsungs lenses are cheap and they are really well built. Good IQ. So check that out too.

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BlbGB
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Re: EPL 5 or NEX 5R
In reply to BlbGB, Mar 29, 2013

BlbGB wrote:

But....I would direct you to the new Samsung NX300 and/or NEX6. You have moving kids. NEX6 seems to track moving subjects well, my Olympus is soso. Can do it, but not that good. mFt is falling behind here. The new Samsung NX300 has (in theory) similar AF as the NEX6. Samsungs lenses are cheap and they are really well built. Good IQ. So check that out too.

Wouldn't the NEX 5R focus as well as the NEX 6? I lean toward the Sony pano, focus peak, better resolution screen. Oly has Oly color, smaller (but is it too small...I have read the buttons are difficult in cold weather), lens selection. I read on forums that the Oly is fast, but the Sony is faster? A lot faster? How is Sony Color??

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Jorginho
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Re: EPL 5 or NEX 5Rhttp://www.dpreview.com/files/g/TS535~R0~2482931.jpg
In reply to BlbGB, Mar 30, 2013

BlbGB wrote:

BlbGB wrote:

But....I would direct you to the new Samsung NX300 and/or NEX6. You have moving kids. NEX6 seems to track moving subjects well, my Olympus is soso. Can do it, but not that good. mFt is falling behind here. The new Samsung NX300 has (in theory) similar AF as the NEX6. Samsungs lenses are cheap and they are really well built. Good IQ. So check that out too.

Wouldn't the NEX 5R focus as well as the NEX 6? I lean toward the Sony pano, focus peak, better resolution screen. Oly has Oly color, smaller (but is it too small...I have read the buttons are difficult in cold weather), lens selection. I read on forums that the Oly is fast, but the Sony is faster? A lot faster? How is Sony Color??

No it has no phase detect autofocus. Phase detect is what you (crruently) need for fast moving subjects, NEX6 has it and it seems to do pretty well, NEX5R does not.

Oh..cold weather. we have lots of very cold weather in The Netherlands. I had no trouble with shooting between -10 and -15 C or like last saturday with a strong blizzard, hard wind and -5 C WITHOUT gloves on. Not better than with my GH2 which has a lot bigger knobs than almost any mirrorless cam. Used them both.

Faster In what. When it comes to autofocussing the Oly is faster than any Sony. NEX6 is better in keeping focus with moving subjects. But..you can do that with Oly to. It is not black and white.

Colour= personal. When it comes to RAW you can almost do whatever you like. When it is JPEG I think the best JPEGs are produced by Olympus when we look at what the majority thinks.

What I also like a are the art settings from Oly. really like it! Some examples of dramatic tone and Grainy B&W from last sunday (first three) and a couple of months ago (woman). May be you like them too.

Pano function of Sony: yes, it really works well! If you think you are going to do that a lot, you may like it. What I have done in the first shot here is a Samyang 7,5 mm fisheye and then defished it and cut of the corners. Gives you a broad panaoramic view if you want.

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Berghof
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nice photos from Holland, thanks
In reply to Jorginho, Mar 30, 2013
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Berghof G.C.

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seachicken2000
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Re: EPL 5 or NEX 5Rhttp://www.dpreview.com/files/g/TS535~R0~2482931.jpg
In reply to Jorginho, Mar 30, 2013

Both the nex-5r and nex-6 have on-sensor pdaf.
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Jorginho
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Thanks, some more as examples
In reply to Berghof, Mar 30, 2013

All JPEGS, just some fun settings from Oly. All near or in my city of Middelburg btw..

Last one just for fun and to show some colours

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Jorginho
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Re: EPL 5 or NEX 5Rhttp://www.dpreview.com/files/g/TS535~R0~2482931.jpg
In reply to seachicken2000, Mar 30, 2013

seachicken2000 wrote:

Both the nex-5r and nex-6 have on-sensor pdaf.
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I stand corrected..did not know that. I think if it works like the one on the NEX6 it is a BIG plus for the OP and his moving kids!

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Sergey Borachev
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Re: EPL 5 or NEX 5R
In reply to BlbGB, Mar 30, 2013

Don't worry about the little things too much.  Worry about the big ones, the ones that are important to you.

The clearest difference to most people is IBIS. Some lenses, either Sony or M43 do not have lens IS.  So this is important as it could mean whether you get that picture at that moment or not.  The E-PL5 has IBIS.

Lens is very important to those who are keen photographers, but may be not to you at this time. We all know there are more lens choices with M43, but importantly, also better high quality lenses at more affordable prices, without having to buy big and heavy Carl Zeiss lenses etc.  Yes, there is also the issue of lens size and weight.  Except for 2 or 3 lenses, the NEX lenses are much bigger and harder to balance/handle once mounted.  However, if you can find the Sony lenses you will be using, and they are not too big, costly and good enough quality, then no problem with this point.

The image quality is of course also very important and the NEX sensors are better, but the difference is small, and unless you will be making very large prints, this should not be important.  Besides, as DPR's review of the E-M5 said in its conclusion, you need to go to FF cameras to get significant improvement in IQ.  NEX cameras are APS-C cameras, with much smaller sensors than FF.  A M43 camera compensates for the small IQ difference by better quality lenses.

AF is important to many types of shooting and there is no question that the E-PL5, which has the same AF as the E-M5, is better and faster for most shots.  The PDAF in the 5R does not do much to improve C-AF, based on most reports and is therefore not a big advantage.

DOF control is a little better with the Sony but again, it is not a whole lot of difference, particularly when you note that Sony does not have as many fast lenses (which give more bokeh and therefore compensates for the small difference in DOF control).  And there is also compensation in terms of more depth when you need it in your photos with M43.  So, this DOF control difference is really nothing.

Panorama and video would be better with the NEX, but the E-PL5 has other nice features too, including LiveBulb or Live Time, flip-up screen, good JPEG.  Some NEX has focus peaking to make it easier to use old manual lenses, but Olympus cameras compensates for that with IBIS to stabilise those old lenses.  All these less important features are not so important as those above and it is a draw, give and take.

I think the only time when it seems better to get a Sony is in this situation.  If you will be only using 1 lens or at most 2 pancake lenses in the short FL range, then the next 5R looks OK.  You will then get a small camera that has a big grip and also small lens and it is very nice for travelling.  It would be even better to get the NEX-6, as it also has a built-in EVF for an all-in-one solution.  However, if you ever want to get more lenses, get more serious in photography, then all those other problems mentioned above like lens choice, big lenses, AF, IBIS etc will affect you as your demands grow.  Maybe it seems fine for now to have such a pancake based system, but you should also think longer term.

Consider what you need in future, if you want to try shooting others things, get more serious into photography, or just want to upgrade to a better camera to take advantage of the latest technology.  Then, having two makers, Panasonic and Olympus, will give you a clear advantage in choices of bodies, options and features that you may need later.  For example, you might want to take better quality video in future (GH3), have a weather proof camera (GH3 or E-M5), a more ergonomic, better handling body (G5), ...

So, do your friend a favour and tell him to switch to M43 instead unless he has very special requirements in cameras.   IMO, it is unlikely that NEX could ever compete well with M43, due to the advantages M43 has - size and handling, IBIS (for Olympus cameras), video features (GH?), body choices, and a lens line-up that is practically impossible to catch up ...  a most likely reason why Sony is buying into Olympus.

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captura
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Re: EPL 5 or NEX 5Rhttp://www.dpreview.com/files/g/TS535~R0~2482931.jpg
In reply to Jorginho, Mar 30, 2013

Jorginho wrote:

BlbGB wrote:

BlbGB wrote:

But....I would direct you to the new Samsung NX300 and/or NEX6. You have moving kids. NEX6 seems to track moving subjects well, my Olympus is soso. Can do it, but not that good. mFt is falling behind here. The new Samsung NX300 has (in theory) similar AF as the NEX6. Samsungs lenses are cheap and they are really well built. Good IQ. So check that out too.

Wouldn't the NEX 5R focus as well as the NEX 6? I lean toward the Sony pano, focus peak, better resolution screen. Oly has Oly color, smaller (but is it too small...I have read the buttons are difficult in cold weather), lens selection. I read on forums that the Oly is fast, but the Sony is faster? A lot faster? How is Sony Color??

No it has no phase detect autofocus. Phase detect is what you (crruently) need for fast moving subjects, NEX6 has it and it seems to do pretty well, NEX5R does not.

Oh..cold weather. we have lots of very cold weather in The Netherlands. I had no trouble with shooting between -10 and -15 C or like last saturday with a strong blizzard, hard wind and -5 C WITHOUT gloves on. Not better than with my GH2 which has a lot bigger knobs than almost any mirrorless cam. Used them both.

Faster In what. When it comes to autofocussing the Oly is faster than any Sony. NEX6 is better in keeping focus with moving subjects. But..you can do that with Oly to. It is not black and white.

Colour= personal. When it comes to RAW you can almost do whatever you like. When it is JPEG I think the best JPEGs are produced by Olympus when we look at what the majority thinks.

What I also like a are the art settings from Oly. really like it! Some examples of dramatic tone and Grainy B&W from last sunday (first three) and a couple of months ago (woman). May be you like them too.

Pano function of Sony: yes, it really works well! If you think you are going to do that a lot, you may like it. What I have done in the first shot here is a Samyang 7,5 mm fisheye and then defished it and cut of the corners. Gives you a broad panaoramic view if you want.

Please forgive me for cutting off your photos; the system needs more space.

BlbGB:  I think you should have posted this question about the Nex's on the parallel thread you are running on the NEX forum.

The Sony NEX-6 and the 5R will focus identically because in most respects they are the same camera. (Except for the physical differences.) Likewise IQ is the same; the same processor and hybrid phase detection sensor being used IN BOTH CAMERAS. The latter causes the NEX's to outperform the PENS in AF.  However, some Panasonic models are still faster fucusers than NEX 6/5R.

We have cold weather here in Canada, too. The NEX-5R uses a resistive touch-screen which allows easy operation in cold weather, WITH GLOVES ON.

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captura
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Re: EPL 5 or NEX 5R
In reply to Sergey Borachev, Mar 30, 2013

IBIS is nice, but often not necessary. I sometimes disable it on my E-PL1. However most of my telephoto shots are done using one of the m43 cameras with the Oly. 40-150 lens. A no-brainer lens to get which really benefits from IBIS, I've found.

Often more useful I have found, is the NEX's Focus Peaking feature, which is a blast with manual focus lenses, and can be useful with AF lenses on manual assist.

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Jorginho
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Re: EPL 5 or NEX 5Rhttp://www.dpreview.com/files/g/TS535~R0~2482931.jpg
In reply to captura, Mar 30, 2013

Yes, I was mistaken. I think for hos shooting the NEX has clear advantages. Iwonder if the touch sensitive screen of the Oly allows for shooting with gloves on. I don't think it can whereas panny TS screens can. For his shooting AND his tendency I think to go for the NEX, I would go for that cam. If it is not working for him, he can always switch with a little loss by selling the cam and get whatever he wants to try next.

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captura
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Re: EPL 5 or NEX 5Rhttp://www.dpreview.com/files/g/TS535~R0~2482931.jpg
In reply to Jorginho, Mar 30, 2013

Jorginho wrote:

Yes, I was mistaken. I think for hos shooting the NEX has clear advantages. Iwonder if the touch sensitive screen of the Oly allows for shooting with gloves on. I don't think it can whereas panny TS screens can. For his shooting AND his tendency I think to go for the NEX, I would go for that cam. If it is not working for him, he can always switch with a little loss by selling the cam and get whatever he wants to try next.

Yup, that's good advice. How much do those lens-camera rentals cost? That could be another way; it might only take a day just to try it out. If it's not too expensive.

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kaktusss
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Re: EPL 5 or NEX 5R
In reply to BlbGB, Mar 30, 2013

I had both, I kept the E-PL5.

More info here :

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/50755760

Two months after, I'm still very happy with the E-PL5.

I tried the SEL50F18 with updated PDAF firmware on my friend's NEX-5R, it's still slower than the E-PL5 with the fantastic 45mm 1.8.

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BayAreaWZ
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Re: EPL 5 or NEX 5R
In reply to BlbGB, Mar 30, 2013

I was ready to order the EPL 5, and ran into someone at a party that really praised their NEX. I had seriously looked at the NEX and it just reminded me of all of the reasons I almost bought the 5R. I am unable to get my hands on an Olympus, and would rather not purchase something online and have to ship it back because I don't like it. What are some of the less obvious differences? How well does the Olympus do panoramic, I hear Sony does it very well. Both remote flash capable? Focus during video? Anyone else go through this decision making process...

I am upgrading from point and shoot. Will be shooting my young kids( indoor and outdoor moving around), macro, and little landscape right now. But am interested in learning more.

The best camera for you would be the Nex-3n that just came out. It's 499 for the camera and the new compact zoom lens. My current cam is the nex-6 and EM-5, but I'm thinking of getting the 3n as a more compact backup that my wife can use as well. The main reasons why it could work for you are:

- better in low light then the Oly
- video focus is silent and much faster
- flip LCD screen tilts all the up for easy self portraits with the kids
- built in pop up flash, the Oly is a separate unit you must attach
- the built in flash can be titled up manually so you can do bounce flash indoors. I do it all the time with my Nex-6 and its awesome for kid shots
- very compact package and has a decent grip
- the zoom the 3n comes with starts at 24mm which is wider and better for landscapes than the the 28mm starting point for the Oly kit zoom
- neither camera is suited for macro with their kit lenses. You'll have to buy a separate lens for that.

My local best buy had them on display and I was very impressed with the handling.

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forpetessake
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Re: EPL 5 or NEX 5R
In reply to BayAreaWZ, Mar 30, 2013

BayAreaWZ wrote:

I was ready to order the EPL 5, and ran into someone at a party that really praised their NEX. I had seriously looked at the NEX and it just reminded me of all of the reasons I almost bought the 5R. I am unable to get my hands on an Olympus, and would rather not purchase something online and have to ship it back because I don't like it. What are some of the less obvious differences? How well does the Olympus do panoramic, I hear Sony does it very well. Both remote flash capable? Focus during video? Anyone else go through this decision making process...

I am upgrading from point and shoot. Will be shooting my young kids( indoor and outdoor moving around), macro, and little landscape right now. But am interested in learning more.

The best camera for you would be the Nex-3n that just came out. It's 499 for the camera and the new compact zoom lens. My current cam is the nex-6 and EM-5, but I'm thinking of getting the 3n as a more compact backup that my wife can use as well. The main reasons why it could work for you are:

- better in low light then the Oly
- video focus is silent and much faster
- flip LCD screen tilts all the up for easy self portraits with the kids
- built in pop up flash, the Oly is a separate unit you must attach
- the built in flash can be titled up manually so you can do bounce flash indoors. I do it all the time with my Nex-6 and its awesome for kid shots
- very compact package and has a decent grip
- the zoom the 3n comes with starts at 24mm which is wider and better for landscapes than the the 28mm starting point for the Oly kit zoom
- neither camera is suited for macro with their kit lenses. You'll have to buy a separate lens for that.

My local best buy had them on display and I was very impressed with the handling.

I would rather wait for NEX-7N, that additional boost in resolution from 24MP sensor is very desirable. The ergonomics and controls are also better. The only question is whether that extra $500 worth it.

As too the macro, I'm using manual Panagor 90mm/2.8. Since manual focusing is a must for macro anyway, it's better to adapt a good legacy macro lens than paying several times more for half-decent native one.

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BlbGB
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Re: EPL 5 or NEX 5R
In reply to forpetessake, Mar 31, 2013

Thanks to all that have contributed to this thread with suggestions and replies and input!!

In summation:

Oly EPL 5  Pluses                                                      Sony NEX 5R pluses
OOC JPEG                                                                    focus peaking #

lens selection (cheaper??)                                           faster *

wifi

IBIS                                                                         panorama

Oly PL 5 negative                                                  Sony NEX 5r negative

buttons small?                                                         big with some lenses

low res screen                                                        (get used to this?)

*with fast lens Oly can be as fast or very close to NEX 5R fast

#I have heard you can use an art filter to mimic focus peaking?

thanks!!

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BlbGB
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Re: EPL 5 or NEX 5R
In reply to kaktusss, Apr 1, 2013

kaktusss wrote:

I had both, I kept the E-PL5.

More info here :

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/50755760

Two months after, I'm still very happy with the E-PL5.

I tried the SEL50F18 with updated PDAF firmware on my friend's NEX-5R, it's still slower than the E-pl5 with the fantastic 45mm 1.8.

Have you tried focus peaking with one of the art filters? I heard this was possible. The screen is a lower resolution (I am unable to see before I order), is it still nice and clear? I do plan to buy the viewfinder at a later date.

Thanks

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BlbGB
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Re: EPL 5 or NEX 5R
In reply to BlbGB, Apr 1, 2013

BlbGB wrote:

Thanks to all that have contributed to this thread with suggestions and replies and input!!

In summation:

Oly EPL 5  Pluses                                                      Sony NEX 5R pluses
OOC JPEG                                                                    focus peaking #

lens selection (cheaper??)                                           faster *

wifi

IBIS                                                                         panorama

Oly PL 5 negative                                                  Sony NEX 5r negative

buttons small?                                                         big with some lenses

low res screen                                                        (get used to this?)

*with fast lens Oly can be as fast or very close to NEX 5R fast

#I have heard you can use an art filter to mimic focus peaking?

thanks!!

Ooops! I see wifi was over on the EPL 5 side that is obviously Sony feature. I am reading some negative things about the wifi though, slow processing... great idea, maybe the next model or the model after that the kinks maybe out of it.

Also someone suggested the Sony 3n (I think this is the model, it is the newest model out) I was disappointed when this came out that it did not have the faster sensor of the 5R and 6, also I am hoping to utilize the flip up screen and actually be in a photo or two with my children. I know I could use a tripod and timer or remote, but I think the flip up screen will be more spontaneous for my kids (ages 6,4,3)

Does anyone else have any input NEX or m4/3

Thanks!!

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