SSD performance

Started Mar 29, 2013 | Discussions
Jim Cockfield
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very fast SSD, very fast CPU, clean install...
In reply to Richard, Apr 5, 2013

Richard wrote:

Jim Cockfield wrote:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6338/samsung-ssd-840-preliminary-benchmarks

The OP has a 512GB Samsung 840 Pro SSD installed now. See this post where he gave more detail on what he's using:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/51182472

Thanks for bringing that to my attention, I did not read every post.

IMO, that's the *very best* SSD (consumer level anyway) you're going to find at a reasonable price (and it's more expensive than most consumer models), since their older Samsung 830 series drives have amazing reliability compared to virtually any other SSD model based on endurance testing I've looked at, and the newer 840 Pro is using the same flash memory type (only the newer model is much faster now)

I would agree, the Pro model is faster than the others.

That's why it's either at the top of most SSD benchmarks for performance (or very close to the top) in the review of the standard 840 (versus 840 Pro) model you linked to in your post.  Note where a Samsung 840 Pro was already much faster than the standard 840 in the review you linked to.

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JimC
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I was trying to explain why a youtube vid of a laptop with an old 830 samsung drive booted faster than anything I have seen before and faster than his new drive, and was not able to do it, and since all the other videos were more in line I concluded the person is doing something other than installing fresh something either with the vid or turning off stuff. But either way it was not something I could replicate.

Yea...  The OP has a fast CPU (Core i7-2630QM), which is a Quad Core Sandy Bridge model; has 16GB of memory, and one of the fastest SSDs you can buy (512GB Samsung 840 Pro), and has already done a clean install of Win 7 and updated all firmware and drivers.

It also looks like he's tried disabling startup programs and services using msconfig to try and speed up the bootup process from what I understand from previous posts.

So, it sounds to me like expectations are just too high.    Sure, you could buy an even faster model using one of the latest Ivy Bridge CPUs (Core i7 3xxx models) and get some increase in CPU performance.

But, from my perspective, given the specs of the OP's current system, it should be "good enough".   Just because he found a youtube video of a system booting faster doesn't mean that every system is going to boot that fast, as there is no telling what the person producing that video did to get startup speed that fast (as disabling extra drivers and programs that you need just to get fast boot is probably not a wise idea).

I don't understand why the boot speed is that important.   I'd just use "sleep" for when you want to save a bit of power, versus shutting down and restarting the machine.   Experimenting with hibernate to see if that helps for when you want to save even more power is another option (but, with 16GB of memory installed, hibernate is going to need to write a snapshot of that memory to disk and reload it again when you resume, meaning it may not help much due to the large file size of hiberfil.sys used for that purpose).

IOW, the more memory you have installed, the longer hibernate is going to take to shutdown and restart your PC, because it's writing and reading back in a larger file size that represents a snapshot of your memory when you use hibernate.

It's the OP's money.  But, I'd leave good enough alone versus spending more money on a different model.   Personally, I see no good reason to have startup speed that fast anyway.   I never even pay much attention to boot speed on my PCs, even with my laptops and netbooks.   It's not a big issue.   More important to me is how well the machine performs after it's finished booting into an OS.

Or, as I mentioned in earlier posts, perhaps consider moving to Windows 8 instead, as it's specifically designed to shutdown and startup faster.  Basically, it uses a technique that's similar to hibernate to speed up that process.  It's not the same thing though (my guess is that Microsoft is using some type of compression algorithm to write a smaller snapshot of critical functions to disk, versus saving everything in memory like hibernate works.    From my perspective, that's about the only good thing about Windows 8 (faster startup and shutdown).

Then, just use one of the third party programs like the free Classic Shell for Windows so that you don't need to see the Metro UI at all and have a traditional style start menu setup again.   That way, it should look and feel just like Win 7, only with faster startup and shutdown if you really need faster speed for those processes.

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philmar
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Re: very fast SSD, very fast CPU, clean install...
In reply to Jim Cockfield, Apr 5, 2013

Who cares about boot time? it is the WHOLE experience that is important, not just the initial time it takes to boot up.

It's like evaluating how good someone makes love by measuring how long it takes them to disrobe. In both situations it is what happens after reboot (or disrobing) that is more important.

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Tareq Abdulla
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Re: SSD performance
In reply to Tareq Abdulla, Apr 6, 2013

Hi again,

Well, i just bought new computer, i will not talk much about it because i paid a lot to get it, so i will accept any issues it

It is coming with Windows 8, the booting as all of you know is unbelievable  but i still want to go back to Windows 7, the laptop having SSD, but i am not sure on which port it is connected and also it has a 1TB drive [Toshiba 5400rpm], it seems the OS is on that drive and not on SSD, but the boot is crazy fast, i can't imagine how it will be with SSD then, later i may try to take out all the drives and put my Samsung from another old laptop for Windows 7, then one day i will add the SSD on this laptop to compliment it, 32GB Samsung but i don't know which model.

Now with this new laptop i have to relax and don't worry much about booting time that i was cazy idiot about, will check out with the other SSD + Win 7 and see how it performs.

Thanks all, i appreciate all the help.

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Richard
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Wow.. but good luck
In reply to Tareq Abdulla, Apr 6, 2013

Tareq Abdulla wrote:

Hi again,

Well, i just bought new computer, i will not talk much about it because i paid a lot to get it, so i will accept any issues it

It is coming with Windows 8, the booting as all of you know is unbelievable  but i still want to go back to Windows 7, the laptop having SSD, but i am not sure on which port it is connected and also it has a 1TB drive [Toshiba 5400rpm], it seems the OS is on that drive and not on SSD, but the boot is crazy fast, i can't imagine how it will be with SSD then, later i may try to take out all the drives and put my Samsung from another old laptop for Windows 7, then one day i will add the SSD on this laptop to compliment it, 32GB Samsung but i don't know which model.

Now with this new laptop i have to relax and don't worry much about booting time that i was cazy idiot about, will check out with the other SSD + Win 7 and see how it performs.

Thanks all, i appreciate all the help.

If you have the money to just go buy a new computer because your old one does not boot fast, more power to you.

Just remember, windows 8 was designed to boot fast so it loads all the garbage after it comes up, there is a point of diminishing returns, and at that point, because you are loading less stuff at boot, there will be less of a performance increase adding an SSD..... just saying.

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Richard
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Re: very fast SSD, very fast CPU, clean install...
In reply to philmar, Apr 6, 2013

philmar wrote:

Who cares about boot time? it is the WHOLE experience that is important, not just the initial time it takes to boot up.

I do to a point. I get frustrated when a computer takes to long to come up. But everything I have now is either fast enough or exceeds my desires or expectations for the amount of money that I have spent.

It's like evaluating how good someone makes love by measuring how long it takes them to disrobe. In both situations it is what happens after reboot (or disrobing) that is more important.

This might be important if you only get quickies at lunch and how fast you disrobe is directly dependent if you get any or not.

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Tareq Abdulla
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Re: Wow.. but good luck
In reply to Richard, Apr 6, 2013

Richard wrote:

Tareq Abdulla wrote:

Hi again,

Well, i just bought new computer, i will not talk much about it because i paid a lot to get it, so i will accept any issues it

It is coming with Windows 8, the booting as all of you know is unbelievable  but i still want to go back to Windows 7, the laptop having SSD, but i am not sure on which port it is connected and also it has a 1TB drive [Toshiba 5400rpm], it seems the OS is on that drive and not on SSD, but the boot is crazy fast, i can't imagine how it will be with SSD then, later i may try to take out all the drives and put my Samsung from another old laptop for Windows 7, then one day i will add the SSD on this laptop to compliment it, 32GB Samsung but i don't know which model.

Now with this new laptop i have to relax and don't worry much about booting time that i was cazy idiot about, will check out with the other SSD + Win 7 and see how it performs.

Thanks all, i appreciate all the help.

If you have the money to just go buy a new computer because your old one does not boot fast, more power to you.

Just remember, windows 8 was designed to boot fast so it loads all the garbage after it comes up, there is a point of diminishing returns, and at that point, because you are loading less stuff at boot, there will be less of a performance increase adding an SSD..... just saying.

Having money to dump on laptop or not is not a big deal, i don't buy computers every 6 months or every 1 year as  some i know, so it is not a big harm to renew some of my oldies stuff.

The new laptop [HP] is really great, i will try yo use Windows 8 for a while then later will decide if i want to go back to Windows 7 or keep using win 8, i was thinking to buy another very cheap computer only to run Windows 8 and use this current one i have with Windows 7, and gave my old PC laptop to my daughters, this way they will never bother their mom's laptop and also they will not bother me with my laptop, but i will not rush yet to buy another computer if i don't want to use 2 laptops sometimes, if i feel happy with win 8 after a while then i will forget about going back to win 7.

Now i am confusing if i should replace the HDD on this new laptop with my SSD one, i don't know which SSD one inside this laptop but it seems it is cheapo one 32GB and to my surprise it is connected to SATAIII but they didn't install the OS on it, instead they installed the OS on HDD 1TB 5400 which is connected to SATAII, what an idiot thinking they are.

I still looking for building a desktop with high performance, but that may happen later after 5-7 months, maybe near the end of this year, all depends on what i am going to do, i still feel excited to go back to PC Games.

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Tareq Abdulla
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Re: SSD performance
In reply to Tareq Abdulla, Apr 11, 2013

Hi again,

Well, my new laptop sounds a better performance, i installed my Samsung SSD and installed a clean Windows 7 again, replaced its HDD with Win 8 on it. at begiining it boots same as my old laptop, but after i checked the bios millions times i couldn't make it any better, also i had a long nightmare to do all updates, now it boots little faster than my old lappy, i disconnected all usb devices, also on Bios i disabled CD-Rom boot, so it boots a bit faster overall.

But when i used the Samsung SSD software, "Samsung Magician", i checked it out and it shows me that i don't have AHCI mode on my laptop, how come?

I checked my Bios thousands of times, there is nothing about "AHCI" mode and there is nothinf about " Fast boot" option, so why many bios are different and i can't see some options that i may need it? On my old Dell laptop there is not Fast Boot option, but there is AHCI enable option, any help where or how i can enable AHCI on my new laptop or if you think that my laptop doesn't have AHCI at all?

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Bob Collette
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Re: SSD performance
In reply to Tareq Abdulla, Apr 11, 2013

Not all chipsets support AHCI (or at least they didn't).  A few years ago I had a desktop computer that used a motherboard that had an nVIdia n-Force chipset.  That chipset didn't support AHCI, so it wasn't an option.  What CPU & chipset does your new computer use?

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Tareq Abdulla
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Re: SSD performance
In reply to Bob Collette, Apr 11, 2013

Bob Collette wrote:

Not all chipsets support AHCI (or at least they didn't).  A few years ago I had a desktop computer that used a motherboard that had an nVIdia n-Force chipset.  That chipset didn't support AHCI, so it wasn't an option.  What CPU & chipset does your new computer use?

I see.

My new computer has i7-3630QM processor, and an Intel HM77 chipset

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Bob Collette
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Re: SSD performance
In reply to Tareq Abdulla, Apr 11, 2013

The HM77 chipset supports AHCI, so it would appear that the motherboard manufacturer chose to leave the ability to enable/disable it out of the BIOS, although it is odd that they would do that.

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Tareq Abdulla
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Re: SSD performance
In reply to Bob Collette, Apr 11, 2013

Bob Collette wrote:

The HM77 chipset supports AHCI, so it would appear that the motherboard manufacturer chose to leave the ability to enable/disable it out of the BIOS, although it is odd that they would do that.

And where i can enable it if i want? The pic i attached showed that my motherboard or laptop has disabled AHCI, so how can i enable it if i can't do that from Bios?

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Bob Collette
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Re: SSD performance
In reply to Tareq Abdulla, Apr 11, 2013

Most laptop BIOS's have limited configurability.  I just checked my HP laptop and it doesn't have an option to enable/disable AHCI either.  However, fortunately it is enabled on my laptop.  Here's a link to an article that claims to show you how to manually enable AHCI.  It's worth a try.

http://www.mydigitallife.info/how-to-enable-ahci-support-in-windows/

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Tareq Abdulla
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Re: SSD performance
In reply to Bob Collette, Apr 11, 2013

Bob Collette wrote:

Most laptop BIOS's have limited configurability.  I just checked my HP laptop and it doesn't have an option to enable/disable AHCI either.  However, fortunately it is enabled on my laptop.  Here's a link to an article that claims to show you how to manually enable AHCI.  It's worth a try.

http://www.mydigitallife.info/how-to-enable-ahci-support-in-windows/

No Success, i did modify in Registry and still i can't find anything about AHCI, not in Bios and not in Device Manager, and Samsung Magicion keep sayinf that AHCI is disabled.

I read few articles where i have to hack/unloack my Bios to get more hidden options, but i am worry about the risks and second i don't know where and how i can hack my Bios model one, so i feel this laptop is also a nightmare for Bios and SSD performance, it is little better than my Dell laptop, but i don't know if i have to worry more about how to change anything if possible.

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malch
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Re: SSD performance
In reply to Tareq Abdulla, Apr 11, 2013

Tareq Abdulla wrote:

No Success, i did modify in Registry and still i can't find anything about AHCI, not in Bios and not in Device Manager, and Samsung Magicion keep sayinf that AHCI is disabled.

I think that's a bug in Samsung Magician!

I had the same issue here with a 840 Pro on my old machine. Magician said AHCI was disabled but my BIOS and operating system said it was enabled. I ran the AS SSD Benchmark software and the 64k thread numbers seemed to confirm that AHCI was working.

After I transferred the 840 Pro to my new machine, Magician said AHCI was working. The performance was significantly improved but that was due to SATA III versus SATA II.

I don't think the AHCI status reported by Magician is accurate/reliable on older (pre SATA III) systems.

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Tareq Abdulla
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Re: SSD performance
In reply to malch, Apr 11, 2013

malch wrote:

Tareq Abdulla wrote:

No Success, i did modify in Registry and still i can't find anything about AHCI, not in Bios and not in Device Manager, and Samsung Magicion keep sayinf that AHCI is disabled.

I think that's a bug in Samsung Magician!

I had the same issue here with a 840 Pro on my old machine. Magician said AHCI was disabled but my BIOS and operating system said it was enabled. I ran the AS SSD Benchmark software and the 64k thread numbers seemed to confirm that AHCI was working.

After I transferred the 840 Pro to my new machine, Magician said AHCI was working. The performance was significantly improved but that was due to SATA III versus SATA II.

I don't think the AHCI status reported by Magician is accurate/reliable on older (pre SATA III) systems.

Well, i can understand, but my laptop is working on SATA III, and the chipset seems new, i did run the performance benchmark test first time and it gave me high results, so i was assuming that AHCI is enabled.

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Tareq Abdulla
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Re: SSD performance
In reply to Tareq Abdulla, Apr 11, 2013

Here are 2 snapshots from Magician software, very confusing really:

1.

2.

The drive perform fine, the boot is fast and the apps open fast and no much issues yet, but i can't figure out if it is truly AHCI enabled or not, and what i will see if that AHCI is enabled somehow?

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malch
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Re: SSD performance
In reply to Tareq Abdulla, Apr 11, 2013

Tareq Abdulla wrote:

The drive perform fine, the boot is fast and the apps open fast and no much issues yet, but i can't figure out if it is truly AHCI enabled or not, and what i will see if that AHCI is enabled somehow?

Yup. Magician could not detect the type of SATA interface. That's what I had on my old machine too. If it can't pick up the interface details maybe it just defaults to AHCI disabled.

Try running the AS SSD benchmark:

http://alex-is.de/PHP/fusion/downloads.php?download_id=9

Then compare the 4K versus 4K-64Thrd numbers.

If AHCI is working the 4K-64Thrd numbers will be much higher than the 4K. Maybe 5 to 10 times higher.

If AHCI is not working, the 4K and 4K-64Thrd numbers will be in the same ballpark.

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Tareq Abdulla
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Re: SSD performance
In reply to malch, Apr 11, 2013

malch wrote:

Tareq Abdulla wrote:

The drive perform fine, the boot is fast and the apps open fast and no much issues yet, but i can't figure out if it is truly AHCI enabled or not, and what i will see if that AHCI is enabled somehow?

Yup. Magician could not detect the type of SATA interface. That's what I had on my old machine too. If it can't pick up the interface details maybe it just defaults to AHCI disabled.

Try running the AS SSD benchmark:

http://alex-is.de/PHP/fusion/downloads.php?download_id=9

Then compare the 4K versus 4K-64Thrd numbers.

If AHCI is working the 4K-64Thrd numbers will be much higher than the 4K. Maybe 5 to 10 times higher.

If AHCI is not working, the 4K and 4K-64Thrd numbers will be in the same ballpark.

Ok, here is the snapshot

What do you think?

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malch
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Re: SSD performance
In reply to Tareq Abdulla, Apr 11, 2013

Tareq Abdulla wrote:

What do you think?

I think AHCI is probably working, notwithstanding the info from Magician (which I'm now inclined not to trust).

You could try this storage controller driver. I think it may give slightly faster results:

https://downloadcenter.intel.com/Detail_Desc.aspx?agr=Y&ProdId=2101&DwnldID=22194&ProductFamily=Software+Products&ProductLine=Chipset+Software&ProductProduct=Intel%C2%AE+Rapid+Storage+Technology+%28Intel%C2%AE+RST%29&lang=eng

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Tareq Abdulla
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Re: SSD performance
In reply to malch, Apr 11, 2013

malch wrote:

Tareq Abdulla wrote:

What do you think?

I think AHCI is probably working, notwithstanding the info from Magician (which I'm now inclined not to trust).

You could try this storage controller driver. I think it may give slightly faster results:

https://downloadcenter.intel.com/Detail_Desc.aspx?agr=Y&ProdId=2101&DwnldID=22194&ProductFamily=Software+Products&ProductLine=Chipset+Software&ProductProduct=Intel%C2%AE+Rapid+Storage+Technology+%28Intel%C2%AE+RST%29&lang=eng

Thanks!

I will try this driver and hope it may help in something.

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