SSD performance

Started Mar 29, 2013 | Discussions
Tareq Abdulla
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SSD performance
Mar 29, 2013

Hi,

I just bought[online] another SSD but this time for my PC laptop, and i have something weird, which is the following:

I replaced old HDD of that laptop with Seagate Momentus XT 750GB [hybrid SSD drive], and the speed was good and fast, i just replaced that drive again yesterday with the new SSD i bought and did a clean fresh install of Windows 7, but when i boot and shutdown i see that there is no improvement of that SSD over that Seagate hybrid one, maybe 1-2 seconds only nothing much, also the boot time is not super fast, i saw some youtube videos for some old computers [laptops or desktops] with SSD and they loading faster, sometimes i can't see that windows logo too, but even if i see it, mine take about 4-5 seconds after that logo complete to log in windows, what's wrong? How can i manage a faster boot of SSD over regular and/or/hybrid drives?

My PC laptop has following simple specifications:

i7-2630QM

RAM 16GB 1333GHz

Inter HD Graphics 3000

It says it supports SATA III [6Gbps]

So what is the problem of SSD speed/performance in boot/shutdown?

Is there any PC laptop i can get so i can put that SSD inside for faster boot/shutdown? I have the RAM of this laptop, so i can upgrade the RAM and the SSD, but other things i will keep the same.

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Jim Cockfield
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Supports or is...
In reply to Tareq Abdulla, Mar 29, 2013

Tareq Abdulla wrote:

It says it supports SATA III [6Gbps]

Supports SATA III, or is SATA III?

You can say a device has SATA III support, even if it's got a SATA II port (as SATA III drives will work, but you're limited to SATA II bus speeds). 

I'd take a closer look at the laptop specs to find out if it's really a SATA III port or not

Your problem may not be related to drive speed anyway though (as the drivers and programs you're loading during bootup and startup may be using a lot of CPU resources slowing it down).   Sometimes startup processes are waiting for devices to initialize during a boot processing slowing it down, and sometimes you can find programs starting that are going online to check for updates.

IOW, may find you've got programs running that are looking for updates during bootup, too (AV software downloading new definitions, programs looking for updates to Adobe Flash Player, Java, etc.).   So, it may not be related to drive speed.

Also, even if it's SATA II versus SATA III, you'd still see read speeds approaching 300MB/Second for some block sizes (about twice as fast as you'd get with a physical hard drive), with many newer SSD models (of course, the exact drive you bought will make a difference in what you can expect to see for read speeds, as some SSDs are much faster than others).

But, since you're replacing a Hybrid Drive (versus a standard physical drive), you may not see much benefit during startup, as most of the startup programs and libraries may already be cached in the drive's flash memory section.   That's one of the benefits of using a Hybrid Drive.

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Tareq Abdulla
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Re: Supports or is...
In reply to Jim Cockfield, Mar 29, 2013

Jim Cockfield wrote:

Tareq Abdulla wrote:

It says it supports SATA III [6Gbps]

Supports SATA III, or is SATA III?

You can say a device has SATA III support, even if it's got a SATA II port (as SATA III drives will work, but you're limited to SATA II bus speeds). 

I'd take a closer look at the laptop specs to find out if it's really a SATA III port or not

Your problem may not be related to drive speed anyway though (as the drivers and programs you're loading during bootup and startup may be using a lot of CPU resources slowing it down).   Sometimes startup processes are waiting for devices to initialize during a boot processing slowing it down, and sometimes you can find programs starting that are going online to check for updates.

IOW, may find you've got programs running that are looking for updates during bootup, too (AV software downloading new definitions, programs looking for updates to Adobe Flash Player, Java, etc.).   So, it may not be related to drive speed.

Also, even if it's SATA II versus SATA III, you'd still see read speeds approaching 300MB/Second for some block sizes (about twice as fast as you'd get with a physical hard drive), with many newer SSD models (of course, the exact drive you bought will make a difference in what you can expect to see for read speeds, as some SSDs are much faster than others).

But, since you're replacing a Hybrid Drive (versus a standard physical drive), you may not see much benefit during startup, as most of the startup programs and libraries may already be cached in the drive's flash memory section.   That's one of the benefits of using a Hybrid Drive.

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So what is the solution?

How can i know if my machine using SATA III or supporting SATA3 but not getting full access/speed of SATA3?

I said i did a clean install, i didn't install many software/programs yet, i also entered "msconfig" and i disabled many services or startup also disabled some performances and settings and did boot at minimal settings and nothing changed, so maybe my computer even it is i7 and saying it supports SATA3 but i am on SATA2 actually?

As i said before, i saw youtube videos with laptops that is i3/i5 or even core 2 duo with SSD and boots faster than mine or almost very closer to mine, so why i have i7 with 16GB and i can't have faster speed of SSD? My MBP mid 2009 which is on SATA2 only loading or booting faster than my PC laptop and my laptop i bought on 2010 or 2011 i think, so newer than my MBP 13" 2009 model.

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Bob Collette
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Re: Supports or is...
In reply to Tareq Abdulla, Mar 29, 2013

Just some things to check:

1) Are you running the SATA controller in AHCI mode (should be)

2) Are you using the Microsoft or Intel SATA driver (ideally should be Intel)

3) If you use a hard drive speed test utility such as HD Tach, you should be able to determine what SATA interface speed you have.  For example, my SATA3 Intel controller with my Samsung 830 series SSD shows a burst speed of ~500MB/s which is clearly SATA3.

Also, what make/model SSD did you purchase?  Some are faster than others.

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malch
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Re: SSD performance
In reply to Tareq Abdulla, Mar 29, 2013

Tareq Abdulla wrote:

I replaced old HDD of that laptop with Seagate Momentus XT 750GB [hybrid SSD drive], and the speed was good and fast, i just replaced that drive again yesterday with the new SSD i bought and did a clean fresh install of Windows 7, but when i boot and shutdown i see that there is no improvement of that SSD over that Seagate hybrid one, maybe 1-2 seconds only nothing much, also the boot time is not super fast, i saw some youtube videos for some old computers [laptops or desktops] with SSD and they loading faster, sometimes i can't see that windows logo too, but even if i see it, mine take about 4-5 seconds after that logo complete to log in windows, what's wrong? How can i manage a faster boot of SSD over regular and/or/hybrid drives?

I recently encountered a problem with a startup delay. This arose after the Win7 spinning logo and before the appearance of the login screen.

At that point, Windows tries to find and mount any USB drives that might be connected (among other things). And this was the cause of my problems. So, you might try disconnecting any USB devices including thumb drives and see if that helps.

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Leon Obers
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Re: Supports or is...
In reply to Tareq Abdulla, Mar 29, 2013

Tareq Abdulla wrote:

How can i know if my machine using SATA III or supporting SATA3 but not getting full access/speed of SATA3?

I said i did a clean install, i didn't install many software/programs yet, i also entered "msconfig" and i disabled many services or startup also disabled some performances and settings and did boot at minimal settings and nothing changed, so maybe my computer even it is i7 and saying it supports SATA3 but i am on SATA2 actually?

You could make a test by using e.g. CrystalDiskMark
Further on you could download the latest drivers for chipset etc. of your mobo.
Firmware update of the SSD (if there is one), plus toolbox for SSD to tweak some settings for best performance.

Speed can very for one SSD type or another, and more even when used two SSD's in RAID-0 setting connected to real SATA III ports.
See 1x SSD Intel 520 left --- vs ---- 2x SSD Samsung 840 Pro set as RAID-0 at SATA III ports (600 Mb/s)
(Asus Z77 mobo, Intel i7 3770K)

Still this is not the optimum result. By tweaking options and drivers I even got more high speed (read just above 1000 Mb/s, writing nearly 800 Mb/s for the Samsung RAID-0), but no screendump of that test.

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Tareq Abdulla
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Re: Supports or is...
In reply to Bob Collette, Mar 29, 2013

Bob Collette wrote:

Just some things to check:

1) Are you running the SATA controller in AHCI mode (should be)

2) Are you using the Microsoft or Intel SATA driver (ideally should be Intel)

3) If you use a hard drive speed test utility such as HD Tach, you should be able to determine what SATA interface speed you have.  For example, my SATA3 Intel controller with my Samsung 830 series SSD shows a burst speed of ~500MB/s which is clearly SATA3.

Also, what make/model SSD did you purchase?  Some are faster than others.

Ok

1) It is on AHCI mode

2) I don't know, could be Intel SATA, but my laptop is bad that i can't find more details about each part or ports i have, it is supporting SATA3 but never tell if it uses SATA3 fully or what type of SATA3 it is.

3) I will try one utility and see what i can get.

My SSD is Samsung 840 Pro series 512GB

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Bob Collette
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Re: Supports or is...
In reply to Tareq Abdulla, Mar 29, 2013

Tareq Abdulla wrote:

2) I don't know, could be Intel SATA, but my laptop is bad that i can't find more details about each part or ports i have, it is supporting SATA3 but never tell if it uses SATA3 fully or what type of SATA3 it is.

My SSD is Samsung 840 Pro series 512GB

Go into Device Manager and look for the hard drive controller.  Do a Properties on the controller and select the Driver tab.  Look at who it says the Driver Provider is.  If it's an Intel chipset, the driver provider will likely be either Microsoft or Intel.

The Samsung 840 Pro series is an excellent SSD, so that shouldn't be an issue (unless you got a bad one).

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Tareq Abdulla
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Re: Supports or is...
In reply to Leon Obers, Mar 29, 2013

Here is the result of my SSD

What do you think?

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Leon Obers
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Re: Supports or is...
In reply to Bob Collette, Mar 29, 2013

Bob Collette wrote:

The Samsung 840 Pro series is an excellent SSD, so that shouldn't be an issue (unless you got a bad one).

I can validate this. See my other post.

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Tareq Abdulla
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Re: Supports or is...
In reply to Bob Collette, Mar 29, 2013

Bob Collette wrote:

Tareq Abdulla wrote:

2) I don't know, could be Intel SATA, but my laptop is bad that i can't find more details about each part or ports i have, it is supporting SATA3 but never tell if it uses SATA3 fully or what type of SATA3 it is.

My SSD is Samsung 840 Pro series 512GB

Go into Device Manager and look for the hard drive controller.  Do a Properties on the controller and select the Driver tab.  Look at who it says the Driver Provider is.  If it's an Intel chipset, the driver provider will likely be either Microsoft or Intel.

The Samsung 840 Pro series is an excellent SSD, so that shouldn't be an issue (unless you got a bad one).

OK, the Driver Provider says: "Microsoft".

What is now?

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Bob Collette
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In reply to Tareq Abdulla, Mar 29, 2013

Usually, the Microsoft driver works pretty well.  However, if you want to try the Intel driver, you can go to Intel's website and download their RST (Rapid Storage Technology) driver and see if makes any difference.  To be honest, I doubt that it will make much difference.

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Leon Obers
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In reply to Tareq Abdulla, Mar 29, 2013

Tareq Abdulla wrote:

Here is the result of my SSD

What do you think?

At least it shows that the speed is far above the SATA II specs (300 Mb/s maximum). So it only can be achieved on a SATA III port (600 Mb/s).

Results of only one Samsung SSDS 840 Pro in my desktop shows some different values. More high for reading  "Seq" section about 525 Mb/s ----- 512K block about the same ----- 4k block about 34 Mb/s ----- 4K QD32 about 400 Mb/s (That is about twice the speed).
But for write I have lower values for "Seq" + 512K blocks ----> below 400 Mb/s, more high for 4K blocks ----> 123 Mb/s, and also for the last 4K QD32 block ----> 366 Mb/s

These different values could be part of using other drivers, chipset, settings etc. of the Toolbox and as I use RAID-0 from time to time, the AHCI-mode can not be used (I have to change setting in BIOS already).

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Leon Obers
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In reply to Leon Obers, Mar 29, 2013

Adding:
Keep in mind to, I make use of Samsung 840 Pro 128Gb SSD's, not 512Gb
You could download the latest Samsung Magician SSD toolbox, version 4 + eventually download the latest firmware and flash it to the SSD (using the same Magician tool box).

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kelpdiver
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Re: SSD performance
In reply to Tareq Abdulla, Mar 29, 2013

You may have unrealistic expectations for boot performance.   The second gen momentus hybrids did a decent job of caching for that sort of benchmark.  I'm not surprised you're only seeing a small improvement.

The gain of the 512G SSD is that you can have low latency access to data as well, and not have to worry about apps filling up your smaller OS drive.  And the more apps you use on a routine basis, the greater the gain as the smaller SSD portion of the momentus can't hold them all.

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Tareq Abdulla
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Re: SSD performance
In reply to Tareq Abdulla, Mar 29, 2013

Here are 2 images from Samsung Magician:

It seems my computer is not strong enough to accept new SSD technology, my my SATA3 is not as SATA3 on new computers these days, also maybe my Processor is 1st or 2nd generation that maybe not making SSD good enough, could be the motherboard is not that good enough for overall parts including the SATAIII, so i will keep my eye on another new laptop that i feel it may give me better performance with SSD than my current one.

Is there a way that i can take my SSD and test it with different laptops with some good specifications without taking out the HDD or replace the internal one so i can find which one is more compatible and performing great with this SSD?

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Bob Collette
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Re: SSD performance
In reply to Tareq Abdulla, Mar 29, 2013

I just ran the same performance test on my Samsung SSD (128GB 830 series).  I can't post images, however I'll tell you what my numbers were:

Sequential Read: 538 MB/s                          Sequential Write: 311 MB/s

Random Read (IOPS): 70524                       Random Write (IOPS): 24838

Except for the Random Read, your SSD has similar or higher numbers than mine.  It doesn't appear (to me) that there is anything wrong with your system.

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Tareq Abdulla
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Re: SSD performance
In reply to Bob Collette, Mar 29, 2013

Bob Collette wrote:

I just ran the same performance test on my Samsung SSD (128GB 830 series).  I can't post images, however I'll tell you what my numbers were:

Sequential Read: 538 MB/s                          Sequential Write: 311 MB/s

Random Read (IOPS): 70524                       Random Write (IOPS): 24838

Except for the Random Read, your SSD has similar or higher numbers than mine.  It doesn't appear (to me) that there is anything wrong with your system.

Can you make a video for your system showing the booting time and shutdown and also opening some programs? In fact the most part i care about is the boot and shutdown, the programs open so quick with my SSD, but it takes about 20-25 seconds from pressing the power button to log in Windows 7, even shutdown taking maybe about 4-5 second, my MBP shutdown instantly and i saw on YT videos some lappies shutting down quicker than 3seconds.

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Leon Obers
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Re: SSD performance
In reply to Tareq Abdulla, Mar 29, 2013

Tareq Abdulla wrote:

Here are 2 images from Samsung Magician:

It seems my computer is not strong enough to accept new SSD technology, my my SATA3 is not as SATA3 on new computers these days, also maybe my Processor is 1st or 2nd generation that maybe not making SSD good enough,

Sorry, but I don't see that wrong values for performance or that big differences as seen within the previous test using CrystalDiskMark.

As for Sequential read and write, that are top-notch values. Keep in mind that SATA III 600 Mb/s is the absolute maximum of the port itself. By some overhead, you shall never reach those maximum values in practice. I don't get these values using one SSD, specially for writing. 549 read, 385 write, using the same Magician test, but as written, AHCI mode is not active within my system.

The only drawback is within the Random Read and Write (IOPS). Those values seems far to low, as also seen within the test by small blocks using CrystalDiskMark.
I get values about double as high for this. (96134 read, 89456 write).

Those differences could be a driver issue only, as in previous more old driver versions, I also got far more low values. Upgrading lift up those values as shown a few lines up, but did decrease the write speeds for Sequential write a bit.

You could experiment with other chipset drivers. It could be that you have an Intel SATA chipset.
For recognizing maybe this could be of help:  Intel Chipset identification utility

plus download page

If your mobo do contain an Intel chipset, better to use those drivers.
(I do use Intel drivers, latest download, not the Microsoft drivers as found at my OS CD).
But in spite of test values, it does not say that much for working in normal practice.
As other posters already wrote, booting up can have so much other background processes within the system that it slow down the entire boot, less to to with reading or wrting to an SSD.

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Leon Obers
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Re: SSD performance
In reply to Tareq Abdulla, Mar 29, 2013

Tareq Abdulla wrote:

In fact the most part i care about is the boot and shutdown, the programs open so quick with my SSD, but it takes about 20-25 seconds from pressing the power button to log in Windows 7, even shutdown taking maybe about 4-5 second, my MBP shutdown instantly and i saw on YT videos some lappies shutting down quicker than 3seconds.

I guess, several extra tools are used. Intel do have an extended toolset in combination to BIOS settings, that you get very fast boot-up and shut down. It is not by the performance of an SSD, but by those Intel tools, that the system do respond so quickly. Combination of cache, plus hibernate mode.

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