Photoshop upgrade no longer possible

Started Mar 29, 2013 | Discussions
MisterBG
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Re: When you own a software
In reply to Leonard Migliore, Apr 3, 2013

Leonard Migliore wrote:

RobertSigmund wrote:

You can use it.

When you rent it, you are at Adobe's mercy. They raise the price - you have to pay it, or lose the software.

And that they have the intention to do exactly that is for me as certain as the Amen in church.

Unless you write it yourself, nobody actually owns any software.

All EULA cover the licensing of the use of the software, the ownership remains with the program author.

I suggest you read your EULA terms and conditions more carefully before ticking the "accept" box in future.

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>The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.

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MisterBG
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Re: You can always buy Elements for $79
In reply to Colin Franks, Apr 3, 2013

Colin Franks wrote:

Ray Ritchie wrote:

I checked this point about 4 weeks ago, and found that there were plenty of things that Elements cannot do that PS CS6 can do. Among the things I use are:

  • the Channels panel
  • the Pen tool
  • the Paths panel
  • CMYK and LAB color
  • direct layer masking
  • Layer comps
  • HDR imaging
  • text on a path
  • the Color Balance adjustment
  • advanced color management

Does Elements have the "Content Aware" brush?

Does Elements fully support 16-bit images?

From my experience Elements contains all the bad features of PS and none of the good ones.
On the other hand, just wait 6 mionths and there'll be another version of Elements along to releive you of your money. By the time you upgrade to a useable version of Elelments, you might as well have bought CS6 in the first place.

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>The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.

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RobertSigmund
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Re: When you own a software
In reply to MisterBG, Apr 3, 2013

MisterBG wrote:

Leonard Migliore wrote:

RobertSigmund wrote:

You can use it.

When you rent it, you are at Adobe's mercy. They raise the price - you have to pay it, or lose the software.

And that they have the intention to do exactly that is for me as certain as the Amen in church.

Unless you write it yourself, nobody actually owns any software.

All EULA cover the licensing of the use of the software, the ownership remains with the program author.

I suggest you read your EULA terms and conditions more carefully before ticking the "accept" box in future.

-- hide signature --

>The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.

I own it, they can write in their small printed what they want.

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richardplondon
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Re: Photoshop upgrade no longer possible
In reply to Kodachrome200, Apr 3, 2013

Kodachrome200 wrote:

you persist in this nonsense. the upgrade price was the first thing is saw when I tried to do this

You seem to have completely missed the satire. I am agreeing with you, and others, who think this FUD about subscription is all a non-issue. The store options are all easily there to be understood; while remembering that Adobe's online storefront, and pricing, may look and work a little differently when viewed from different countries.

The new upgrade qualification (previous version only) is IMO a little harsh, but still not bad considering Adobe's CS products are professional level software on the cheap, compared with what people pay for some other software which you could make your living by.

The CAD software I use at work costs £1200 to buy and £900 to upgrade, or £200 a year on top of the purchase price to subscribe for free upgrades... for the cheap alternative (Elements equivalent). The full-function product costs something around three times all those numbers, and quite a bit more again, for the Suite of related programs.

If I got to choose, I would pick a PS ownership model where you can buy upgrades up to say 3 back, but on a sliding scale - and, an annual subscription known in advance, would retain you on the current version - but delivered conventionally, not as a rental. This would feel more palatable to the user IMO if set at say 80-90% of the annual cost through standard upgrades, while offering Adobe a more certain and settled revenue stream in return.

It would keep people more comfortably on board, iow. As it is, people will each time be contemplating: do I cut my losses this time, or hold on a bit longer... so every year they will be looking seriously at the alternatives, which never used to be the case. Or if they are on rental, they may cancel renewals at any moment if it isn't working out for them.

But - I don't get to choose anything, except - be a customer, or be a non-customer, for whatever is the current offering.

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Ray Ritchie
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Re: You can always buy Elements for $79
In reply to MisterBG, Apr 3, 2013

I don't have a recent copy of Elements here - you can consult the Adobe website for the latest features of Elements. That's what I did when I put together the list above. I do use 16-bit all the time, so if Elements doesn't have that feature, that's just another reason why it doesn't work for my purposes. But I had already decided that.

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MisterBG
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Re: When you own a software
In reply to RobertSigmund, Apr 3, 2013

RobertSigmund wrote:

MisterBG wrote:

Leonard Migliore wrote:

RobertSigmund wrote:

You can use it.

When you rent it, you are at Adobe's mercy. They raise the price - you have to pay it, or lose the software.

And that they have the intention to do exactly that is for me as certain as the Amen in church.

Unless you write it yourself, nobody actually owns any software.

All EULA cover the licensing of the use of the software, the ownership remains with the program author.

I suggest you read your EULA terms and conditions more carefully before ticking the "accept" box in future.

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>The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.

I own it, they can write in their small printed what they want.

Just try using it without an activation code/serial number.

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>The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.

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richardplondon
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Re: When you own a software
In reply to MisterBG, Apr 3, 2013

MisterBG wrote:

RobertSigmund wrote:

I own it, they can write in their small printed what they want.

Just try using it without an activation code/serial number.

Or, selling it...

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David Hull
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Re: When you own a software
In reply to RobertSigmund, Apr 3, 2013

RobertSigmund wrote:

MisterBG wrote:

Leonard Migliore wrote:

RobertSigmund wrote:

You can use it.

When you rent it, you are at Adobe's mercy. They raise the price - you have to pay it, or lose the software.

And that they have the intention to do exactly that is for me as certain as the Amen in church.

Unless you write it yourself, nobody actually owns any software.

All EULA cover the licensing of the use of the software, the ownership remains with the program author.

I suggest you read your EULA terms and conditions more carefully before ticking the "accept" box in future.

-- hide signature --

>The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.

I own it, they can write in their small printed what they want.

How do you feel about your photographs? If someone just took your IP without compensating you, how would you feel about that? Imagine for the moment that you are a professional (perhaps you are). In that case, you would agree with your client a fee structure for limited use of your images.  Perhaps it would be unlimited use or even full ownership but regardless, you would expect them to abide by that agreement.  Software is no different, there is an EULA which you agree to on installation and that is legally binding.  I am sure it says nothing about ownership.  You may think you own it, but if you read that agreement, you will quite likely learn that you don’t “own” anything.

Photographers should understand this concept better than anyone else since we deal in intellectual property just like the SW vendor does.  I am amazed that so many people here just don’t get it.

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RobertSigmund
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Re: When you own a software
In reply to David Hull, Apr 3, 2013

David Hull wrote:

RobertSigmund wrote:

MisterBG wrote:

Leonard Migliore wrote:

RobertSigmund wrote:

You can use it.

When you rent it, you are at Adobe's mercy. They raise the price - you have to pay it, or lose the software.

And that they have the intention to do exactly that is for me as certain as the Amen in church.

Unless you write it yourself, nobody actually owns any software.

All EULA cover the licensing of the use of the software, the ownership remains with the program author.

I suggest you read your EULA terms and conditions more carefully before ticking the "accept" box in future.

-- hide signature --

>The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.

I own it, they can write in their small printed what they want.

How do you feel about your photographs? If someone just took your IP without compensating you, how would you feel about that? Imagine for the moment that you are a professional (perhaps you are). In that case, you would agree with your client a fee structure for limited use of your images.  Perhaps it would be unlimited use or even full ownership but regardless, you would expect them to abide by that agreement.  Software is no different, there is an EULA which you agree to on installation and that is legally binding.  I am sure it says nothing about ownership.  You may think you own it, but if you read that agreement, you will quite likely learn that you don’t “own” anything.

Photographers should understand this concept better than anyone else since we deal in intellectual property just like the SW vendor does.  I am amazed that so many people here just don’t get it.

-- hide signature --

Thank you for the distinguished legal lecture! However, if I buy a software, it is mine! And when I buy a William Egglestone print, it is also mine. :-DOf course the artist has the right to make and sell further prints.

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Marty4650
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Unfortunately, David is rightN
In reply to RobertSigmund, Apr 3, 2013

We really don't own the software we pay for. We are just paying a fee for using it.

This isn't the same thing as selling a photo. It is more like licenseing a photo for limited use, which happens very often. You could buy a print, or buy the photo entirely, or simply license a print for limited use.

You probably could buy Adobe Photoshop outright, if you offered Adobe around $400 million for it. Give or take. You just can't own their intellectual property for $799. You can only lease it for that amount.

The problem here is that the seller has too much power over the buyer... if there is no competition, or if the buyer refuses to consider any other options. If enough people simply said "no" to software subscription plans, the idea would simply disappear. Because they need a certain volume to make it profitable at $20 per month.

Without millions of users, the monthly fee could be $400 a month and only the users with the most desperate need for the software would pay for it. And then Adobe ends with even less revenue than they had at the lower price.

So the sellers have to find the right balance. They have to ask themselves.... "how much can we charge these jerks before they walk?"

Personally, I think $240 a year is too much. But that's just my view. Others may disagree. Some might be willing to pay that much, and some might be willing to pay significantly more.

Which is why I said Adobe is taking a risk.

Of course.... even if they have blundered they can always correct the price if they set it too high, or raise the price again if they set it too low. It isn't the end of the world for them. The market will always find the right price for anything.

Remember "New Coke?"

In 1985 Coca-Cola decided to change the formula and branding of their flagship product based on blind taste testing market research. The customer backlash was huge, and within three short months they were forced to return to selling "Coca-Cola Classic" and New Coke became a footnote in their history. And Coca-Cola continued in their position of market leadership ever since.

Coca-Cola demonstrated how even the worst marketing blunder can be corrected if you act quickly enough.

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RobertSigmund
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Re: Unfortunately, David is rightN
In reply to Marty4650, Apr 3, 2013

Marty4650 wrote:

We really don't own the software we pay for. We are just paying a fee for using it.

This isn't the same thing as selling a photo. It is more like licenseing a photo for limited use, which happens very often. You could buy a print, or buy the photo entirely, or simply license a print for limited use.

You probably could buy Adobe Photoshop outright, if you offered Adobe around $400 million for it. Give or take. You just can't own their intellectual property for $799. You can only lease it for that amount.

The problem here is that the seller has too much power over the buyer... if there is no competition, or if the buyer refuses to consider any other options. If enough people simply said "no" to software subscription plans, the idea would simply disappear. Because they need a certain volume to make it profitable at $20 per month.

Without millions of users, the monthly fee could be $400 a month and only the users with the most desperate need for the software would pay for it. And then Adobe ends with even less revenue than they had at the lower price.

So the sellers have to find the right balance. They have to ask themselves.... "how much can we charge these jerks before they walk?"

Personally, I think $240 a year is too much. But that's just my view. Others may disagree. Some might be willing to pay that much, and some might be willing to pay significantly more.

Which is why I said Adobe is taking a risk.

Of course.... even if they have blundered they can always correct the price if they set it too high, or raise the price again if they set it too low. It isn't the end of the world for them. The market will always find the right price for anything.

Remember "New Coke?"

In 1985 Coca-Cola decided to change the formula and branding of their flagship product based on blind taste testing market research. The customer backlash was huge, and within three short months they were forced to return to selling "Coca-Cola Classic" and New Coke became a footnote in their history. And Coca-Cola continued in their position of market leadership ever since.

Coca-Cola demonstrated how even the worst marketing blunder can be corrected if you act quickly enough.

I walk into the store, buy myself a box of Photoshop. Same thing as soap. My contract partner is the shop.

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Greenville
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Re: You can always buy Elements for $79
In reply to MisterBG, Apr 3, 2013

MisterBG wrote:

Colin Franks wrote:

Ray Ritchie wrote:

I checked this point about 4 weeks ago, and found that there were plenty of things that Elements cannot do that PS CS6 can do. Among the things I use are:

  • the Channels panel
  • the Pen tool
  • the Paths panel
  • CMYK and LAB color
  • direct layer masking
  • Layer comps
  • HDR imaging
  • text on a path
  • the Color Balance adjustment
  • advanced color management

Does Elements have the "Content Aware" brush?

Does Elements fully support 16-bit images?

From my experience Elements contains all the bad features of PS and none of the good ones.
On the other hand, just wait 6 mionths and there'll be another version of Elements along to releive you of your money. By the time you upgrade to a useable version of Elelments, you might as well have bought CS6 in the first place.

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>The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.

I have not used Elements since 9, but back then only a few 16 bit operations were possible. I am not sure if there are any 16-bit full featured photo editors besides PhotoShop.  If there are, I hope others will post a list of them. I would be interested in knowing about additional 16-bit tools.

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David Hull
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Re: Unfortunately, David is rightN
In reply to RobertSigmund, Apr 3, 2013

RobertSigmund wrote:

Marty4650 wrote:

We really don't own the software we pay for. We are just paying a fee for using it.

This isn't the same thing as selling a photo. It is more like licenseing a photo for limited use, which happens very often. You could buy a print, or buy the photo entirely, or simply license a print for limited use.

You probably could buy Adobe Photoshop outright, if you offered Adobe around $400 million for it. Give or take. You just can't own their intellectual property for $799. You can only lease it for that amount.

The problem here is that the seller has too much power over the buyer... if there is no competition, or if the buyer refuses to consider any other options. If enough people simply said "no" to software subscription plans, the idea would simply disappear. Because they need a certain volume to make it profitable at $20 per month.

Without millions of users, the monthly fee could be $400 a month and only the users with the most desperate need for the software would pay for it. And then Adobe ends with even less revenue than they had at the lower price.

So the sellers have to find the right balance. They have to ask themselves.... "how much can we charge these jerks before they walk?"

Personally, I think $240 a year is too much. But that's just my view. Others may disagree. Some might be willing to pay that much, and some might be willing to pay significantly more.

Which is why I said Adobe is taking a risk.

Of course.... even if they have blundered they can always correct the price if they set it too high, or raise the price again if they set it too low. It isn't the end of the world for them. The market will always find the right price for anything.

Remember "New Coke?"

In 1985 Coca-Cola decided to change the formula and branding of their flagship product based on blind taste testing market research. The customer backlash was huge, and within three short months they were forced to return to selling "Coca-Cola Classic" and New Coke became a footnote in their history. And Coca-Cola continued in their position of market leadership ever since.

Coca-Cola demonstrated how even the worst marketing blunder can be corrected if you act quickly enough.

I walk into the store, buy myself a box of Photoshop. Same thing as soap. My contract partner is the shop.

Good luck with that one

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David Hull
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Re: Unfortunately, David is rightN
In reply to RobertSigmund, Apr 3, 2013

RobertSigmund wrote:

Marty4650 wrote:

We really don't own the software we pay for. We are just paying a fee for using it.

This isn't the same thing as selling a photo. It is more like licenseing a photo for limited use, which happens very often. You could buy a print, or buy the photo entirely, or simply license a print for limited use.

You probably could buy Adobe Photoshop outright, if you offered Adobe around $400 million for it. Give or take. You just can't own their intellectual property for $799. You can only lease it for that amount.

The problem here is that the seller has too much power over the buyer... if there is no competition, or if the buyer refuses to consider any other options. If enough people simply said "no" to software subscription plans, the idea would simply disappear. Because they need a certain volume to make it profitable at $20 per month.

Without millions of users, the monthly fee could be $400 a month and only the users with the most desperate need for the software would pay for it. And then Adobe ends with even less revenue than they had at the lower price.

So the sellers have to find the right balance. They have to ask themselves.... "how much can we charge these jerks before they walk?"

Personally, I think $240 a year is too much. But that's just my view. Others may disagree. Some might be willing to pay that much, and some might be willing to pay significantly more.

Which is why I said Adobe is taking a risk.

Of course.... even if they have blundered they can always correct the price if they set it too high, or raise the price again if they set it too low. It isn't the end of the world for them. The market will always find the right price for anything.

Remember "New Coke?"

In 1985 Coca-Cola decided to change the formula and branding of their flagship product based on blind taste testing market research. The customer backlash was huge, and within three short months they were forced to return to selling "Coca-Cola Classic" and New Coke became a footnote in their history. And Coca-Cola continued in their position of market leadership ever since.

Coca-Cola demonstrated how even the worst marketing blunder can be corrected if you act quickly enough.

I walk into the store, buy myself a box of Photoshop. Same thing as soap. My contract partner is the shop.

I guess that if there is any good thing that will come out of this, it will be that people like yourself will get an education WRT how licensing works. Your box of soap didn't come boxed with an EULA placing limits on what you could do with it, your box of Photoshop most definitely did and you agreed to it (whether you read it or not) by clicking on that “I Agree” button when you installed the program.  Next time, just don’t click that little button and see how far you get with your ownership argument.

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RobertSigmund
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Re: Unfortunately, David is rightN
In reply to David Hull, Apr 3, 2013

David Hull wrote:

RobertSigmund wrote:

Marty4650 wrote:

We really don't own the software we pay for. We are just paying a fee for using it.

This isn't the same thing as selling a photo. It is more like licenseing a photo for limited use, which happens very often. You could buy a print, or buy the photo entirely, or simply license a print for limited use.

You probably could buy Adobe Photoshop outright, if you offered Adobe around $400 million for it. Give or take. You just can't own their intellectual property for $799. You can only lease it for that amount.

The problem here is that the seller has too much power over the buyer... if there is no competition, or if the buyer refuses to consider any other options. If enough people simply said "no" to software subscription plans, the idea would simply disappear. Because they need a certain volume to make it profitable at $20 per month.

Without millions of users, the monthly fee could be $400 a month and only the users with the most desperate need for the software would pay for it. And then Adobe ends with even less revenue than they had at the lower price.

So the sellers have to find the right balance. They have to ask themselves.... "how much can we charge these jerks before they walk?"

Personally, I think $240 a year is too much. But that's just my view. Others may disagree. Some might be willing to pay that much, and some might be willing to pay significantly more.

Which is why I said Adobe is taking a risk.

Of course.... even if they have blundered they can always correct the price if they set it too high, or raise the price again if they set it too low. It isn't the end of the world for them. The market will always find the right price for anything.

Remember "New Coke?"

In 1985 Coca-Cola decided to change the formula and branding of their flagship product based on blind taste testing market research. The customer backlash was huge, and within three short months they were forced to return to selling "Coca-Cola Classic" and New Coke became a footnote in their history. And Coca-Cola continued in their position of market leadership ever since.

Coca-Cola demonstrated how even the worst marketing blunder can be corrected if you act quickly enough.

I walk into the store, buy myself a box of Photoshop. Same thing as soap. My contract partner is the shop.

I guess that if there is any good thing that will come out of this, it will be that people like yourself will get an education WRT how licensing works. Your box of soap didn't come boxed with an EULA placing limits on what you could do with it, your box of Photoshop most definitely did and you agreed to it (whether you read it or not) by clicking on that “I Agree” button when you installed the program.  Next time, just don’t click that little button and see how far you get with your ownership argument.

-- hide signature --

I am so glad to have all these experts of the law of contract in this forum. Now if you could show me a Bundesgerichtshof judgement confirming your opinion, it would be even more convincing. 

Ever heard about the Emperor's new clothes?

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Mark B.
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Re: Unfortunately, David is rightN
In reply to RobertSigmund, Apr 3, 2013

RobertSigmund wrote:

David Hull wrote:

I guess that if there is any good thing that will come out of this, it will be that people like yourself will get an education WRT how licensing works. Your box of soap didn't come boxed with an EULA placing limits on what you could do with it, your box of Photoshop most definitely did and you agreed to it (whether you read it or not) by clicking on that “I Agree” button when you installed the program.  Next time, just don’t click that little button and see how far you get with your ownership argument.
-- hide signature --

I am so glad to have all these experts of the law of contract in this forum. Now if you could show me a Bundesgerichtshof judgement confirming your opinion, it would be even more convincing. 

Ever heard about the Emperor's new clothes?

No need for anyone to be an expert in law...here's a link to the EULA for Adobe's license for Photoshop CS6.  Specifically, section 3 spells out who owns the software:

3. Intellectual Property Ownership.

The Software and any authorized copies that Customer makes are the intellectual property of and are owned by Adobe Systems Incorporated and its suppliers. The structure, organization, and source code of the Software are the valuable trade secrets and confidential information of Adobe Systems Incorporated and its suppliers. The Software is protected by law, including but not limited to the copyright laws of the United States and other countries, and by international treaty provisions. Except as expressly stated herein, this agreement does not grant Customer any intellectual property rights in the Software. All rights not expressly granted are reserved by Adobe and its suppliers.

It's spelled out in black & white as to ownership.  If you can't agree that you don't actually own the software, then you shouldn't purchase it.

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RobertSigmund
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That's not the point
In reply to Mark B., Apr 3, 2013

Mark B. wrote:

RobertSigmund wrote:

David Hull wrote:

I guess that if there is any good thing that will come out of this, it will be that people like yourself will get an education WRT how licensing works. Your box of soap didn't come boxed with an EULA placing limits on what you could do with it, your box of Photoshop most definitely did and you agreed to it (whether you read it or not) by clicking on that “I Agree” button when you installed the program.  Next time, just don’t click that little button and see how far you get with your ownership argument.
-- hide signature --

I am so glad to have all these experts of the law of contract in this forum. Now if you could show me a Bundesgerichtshof judgement confirming your opinion, it would be even more convincing. 

Ever heard about the Emperor's new clothes?

No need for anyone to be an expert in law...here's a link to the EULA for Adobe's license for Photoshop CS6.  Specifically, section 3 spells out who owns the software:

3. Intellectual Property Ownership.

The Software and any authorized copies that Customer makes are the intellectual property of and are owned by Adobe Systems Incorporated and its suppliers. The structure, organization, and source code of the Software are the valuable trade secrets and confidential information of Adobe Systems Incorporated and its suppliers. The Software is protected by law, including but not limited to the copyright laws of the United States and other countries, and by international treaty provisions. Except as expressly stated herein, this agreement does not grant Customer any intellectual property rights in the Software. All rights not expressly granted are reserved by Adobe and its suppliers.

It's spelled out in black & white as to ownership.  If you can't agree that you don't actually own the software, then you shouldn't purchase it.

I have no intention to buy a John Grisham novel, copy it and sell the copy to an editor as my own manuscript.

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David Hull
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Re: That's not the point
In reply to RobertSigmund, Apr 3, 2013

RobertSigmund wrote:

Mark B. wrote:

RobertSigmund wrote:

David Hull wrote:

I guess that if there is any good thing that will come out of this, it will be that people like yourself will get an education WRT how licensing works. Your box of soap didn't come boxed with an EULA placing limits on what you could do with it, your box of Photoshop most definitely did and you agreed to it (whether you read it or not) by clicking on that “I Agree” button when you installed the program.  Next time, just don’t click that little button and see how far you get with your ownership argument.
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I am so glad to have all these experts of the law of contract in this forum. Now if you could show me a Bundesgerichtshof judgement confirming your opinion, it would be even more convincing. 

Ever heard about the Emperor's new clothes?

No need for anyone to be an expert in law...here's a link to the EULA for Adobe's license for Photoshop CS6.  Specifically, section 3 spells out who owns the software:

3. Intellectual Property Ownership.

The Software and any authorized copies that Customer makes are the intellectual property of and are owned by Adobe Systems Incorporated and its suppliers. The structure, organization, and source code of the Software are the valuable trade secrets and confidential information of Adobe Systems Incorporated and its suppliers. The Software is protected by law, including but not limited to the copyright laws of the United States and other countries, and by international treaty provisions. Except as expressly stated herein, this agreement does not grant Customer any intellectual property rights in the Software. All rights not expressly granted are reserved by Adobe and its suppliers.

It's spelled out in black & white as to ownership.  If you can't agree that you don't actually own the software, then you shouldn't purchase it.

I have no intention to buy a John Grisham novel, copy it and sell the copy to an editor as my own manuscript.

What you bought was a 20 character access code (license key) that allows you to use the product for a period of time. In the past that was an open ended license based on a particular version of the SW, apparently in the future it will be a time limited license allowing use of the current product for a period of time. You really don't own anything, never did. That paragraph says it all.

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Gene L.
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Re: Photoshop upgrade no longer possible
In reply to RedFox88, Apr 3, 2013

RedFox88 wrote:

Each new version brings very few new tools or improvements.  If your camera isn't new you have little need to "upgrade".  I never use layers, filters, etc.  I use the photographic tool Lightroom whereas photoshop is more a graphic designer's tool.

Agree and disagree.

Photoshop upgrades are generally incremental and typically smallish, on this I agree.

Photoshop is every bit as much a photographer's tool as it is a designer's tool, so on this we disagree (but in an agreeable manner I hope

Some people may not use layers, but I make generous use of them My basic setup action for new photos starts off with 6-layers: Retouching, Color, Dodge/Burn, Dream Glow (skin enhancement), Contrast, and Selective Vignette/Cookie Cutter. It is not unusual to use all of these for any given photo.

That said, I only use Photoshop for important photos or those needing serious rework. Most global and minor spot adjustments are made during raw processing, which also allows non-destructive adjustment layers.

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Gene L.
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Re: Cloud Renewal
In reply to kb2zuz, Apr 3, 2013

The rep on the phone told me that Adobe shuts it off if the renewal is withdrawn, so it shouldn't suddenly stop working because the Internet is down for a day. Because they automatically charge your credit card, they can assume that the renewal is perpetual. I wonder what happens when you forget to tell them the bank sent a new card and the old one is no longer valid?

Al likely scenario is to go on vacation where there will be no Internet access. Start the vacation a day before renewal and be gone 2-3 weeks. I wonder if Photoshop will time out after some grace period or if it will keep working as the rep suggested.

Doesn't matter to me. The whole cloud thing is just a way to squeeze more money out of  customers. The only customers who come out ahead, and not by all that much, are those who would normally update every new edition anyway. Those of us who would wait for that third new edition before updating would end up paying much more, which is what Adobe wants. I read this as greed, greed, and greed. Seems obvious.

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