Why is Nikon so slow at fixing botched repairs?

Started Mar 29, 2013 | Discussions
Eamon Hickey
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,100
Like?
Re: Why is Nikon so slow at fixing botched repairs?
In reply to jtan163, Mar 31, 2013

jtan163 wrote:

If I understand it corectly Nikon USA has stopped selling parts t third party repairers in the last few months.

This is a common misconception. Nikon USA still sells parts to independent repair shops -- but the independent repair shop must be an authorized Nikon service center. There are about 20 of those in the U.S., last time I checked, in addition to the two Nikon-owned and operated service centers in New York and California. There is a substantial investment necessary to become Nikon authorized, and most independent repair shops don't spend the money.

What Nikon USA stopped doing was selling parts to independent repair shops who are _also_, not Nikon authorized repair centers.

Your theory might still be partly valid, anyway -- I dunno -- but I think it's worth being precise about what Nikon did, or did not, do.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Eamon Hickey
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,100
Like?
Re: Not so different than Canon, I'm afraid
In reply to roustabout66, Mar 31, 2013

roustabout66 wrote:

Liviu Namolovan wrote:

They're cheap and poor managed, that's why.

I own and have shot both Nikon and Canon for years but until Nikon gets their QC problems under control and reverses their policy of not selling parts to independent repair shops I will not buy another Nikon.

Although the rest of your post may be perfectly sound, I just wanted to make a small correction on Nikon's policy about selling parts.

Nikon USA still sells parts to independent repair shops -- but the independent repair shop must be an authorized Nikon service center. There are about 20 of those in the U.S., last time I checked, in addition to the two Nikon-owned and operated service centers in New York and California. There is a substantial investment necessary to become Nikon authorized, and most independent repair shops don't spend the money.

What Nikon USA stopped doing was selling parts to independent repair shops who are _also_ not Nikon authorized repair centers.

It's an important difference for several reasons.

But again, that does not in any way contradict the rest of your post.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
roustabout66
Regular MemberPosts: 467Gear list
Like?
Re: Not so different than Canon, I'm afraid
In reply to Eamon Hickey, Apr 1, 2013

Eamon Hickey wrote:

roustabout66 wrote:

Liviu Namolovan wrote:

They're cheap and poor managed, that's why.

I own and have shot both Nikon and Canon for years but until Nikon gets their QC problems under control and reverses their policy of not selling parts to independent repair shops I will not buy another Nikon.

Although the rest of your post may be perfectly sound, I just wanted to make a small correction on Nikon's policy about selling parts.

Nikon USA still sells parts to independent repair shops -- but the independent repair shop must be an authorized Nikon service center. There are about 20 of those in the U.S., last time I checked, in addition to the two Nikon-owned and operated service centers in New York and California. There is a substantial investment necessary to become Nikon authorized, and most independent repair shops don't spend the money.

What Nikon USA stopped doing was selling parts to independent repair shops who are _also_ not Nikon authorized repair centers.

It's an important difference for several reasons.

But again, that does not in any way contradict the rest of your post.

You are correct as far as you go. Perhaps I should have gone into more detail, but my posts are usually way too long as it is. As I understand it Nikon is not accepting any new "authorized" repair shops so if you are not a member of the club already you are not getting in. I also was told the fee for becoming an authorized shop (if you could get in) is about $100,000 and you are required to carry a mind numbing assortment of parts including Coolpix parts in every color of the rainbow. KEH one of the largest used camera sellers in the U.S. said in their blog that Nikon's new policy was why they were no longer a repair shop for Nikon. Any way you look at it, it is a step back for consumers in my mind. Roger's figures at lensrentals speak for themselves.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Joe Tam
Regular MemberPosts: 454Gear list
Like?
Re: Not so different than Canon, I'm afraid
In reply to roustabout66, Apr 1, 2013

OK, just got a call from the authorized service center.  They said Nikon told them a part is backordered and they couldn't give any estimated time of repair completion.

This is ridiculous.  Their parts are always backordered.

What can I do at this point to speed it up?  It's almost 30 days since I had the camera sent in for a redo.

 Joe Tam's gear list:Joe Tam's gear list
Nikon D4 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH4 Nikon D4s Panasonic Lumix G Vario 100-300mm F4-5.6 OIS +16 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
AZBlue
Contributing MemberPosts: 864Gear list
Like?
Re: Why is Nikon so slow at fixing botched repairs?
In reply to leicaman, Apr 1, 2013

leicaman wrote:

Joe,

Nikon service used to be top notch... back in the film days.  To see what you have gone through is totally unacceptable.  As much as it breaks my heart because the sensor is so great,  I am returning my D600 and switching brands.  These machines are no longer as durable as the F2s and F3s and sooner or later will need service.. ( In my case sooner as my D600 is a dustbin)  If you can't even count on service or QC then why bother?

So I'm presuming you switched to Canon because, somehow, their cameras are as durable as a Nikon F1 or F2? Please let us know what you switched to, I'm curious to know.

-- hide signature --

"I've been in more laps than a napkin" - Mae West

 AZBlue's gear list:AZBlue's gear list
Nikon D800 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 16-35mm f/4G ED VR Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED Nikon AF Nikkor 20mm f/2.8D Sigma 150mm F2.8 EX DG OS Macro HSM +1 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
shawnfb
Contributing MemberPosts: 514Gear list
Like?
Re: Why is Nikon so slow at fixing botched repairs?
In reply to Joe Tam, Apr 1, 2013

i think within 30 days is pretty darn good for Nikon... I am pretty sure they have a couple more fixes, returns, and warranty issues on planet earth.. no?

-- hide signature --

shawn

 shawnfb's gear list:shawnfb's gear list
Sony RX100 II Canon EOS 5D Mark III Fujifilm X-E2 Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM +5 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
jtan163
Contributing MemberPosts: 939Gear list
Like?
Re: Why is Nikon so slow at fixing botched repairs?
In reply to Eamon Hickey, Apr 1, 2013

Eamon Hickey wrote:

jtan163 wrote:

If I understand it corectly Nikon USA has stopped selling parts t third party repairers in the last few months.

This is a common misconception. Nikon USA still sells parts to independent repair shops -- but the independent repair shop must be an authorized Nikon service center. There are about 20 of those in the U.S., last time I checked, in addition to the two Nikon-owned and operated service centers in New York and California. There is a substantial investment necessary to become Nikon authorized, and most independent repair shops don't spend the money.

What Nikon USA stopped doing was selling parts to independent repair shops who are _also_, not Nikon authorized repair centers.

Your theory might still be partly valid, anyway -- I dunno -- but I think it's worth being precise about what Nikon did, or did not, do.

I think you're right - it is worth being precise.
That's why I prefaced my comment with "If I understand correctly...", because I was not 100% of the exact nature of the change.

Despite the fact my above sentence sounds smart alecky it's not intended to, I genuinely do appreciate your additional, correct info.

 jtan163's gear list:jtan163's gear list
Olympus C-740 UZ Nikon D7000 Olympus OM-D E-M5 Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 16-85mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 35mm f/1.8G +13 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
entlassen
Forum MemberPosts: 69
Like?
Re: Why is Nikon so slow at fixing botched repairs?
In reply to Eamon Hickey, Apr 1, 2013

Eamon Hickey wrote:

jtan163 wrote:

If I understand it corectly Nikon USA has stopped selling parts t third party repairers in the last few months.

This is a common misconception. Nikon USA still sells parts to independent repair shops -- but the independent repair shop must be an authorized Nikon service center. There are about 20 of those in the U.S., last time I checked, in addition to the two Nikon-owned and operated service centers in New York and California. There is a substantial investment necessary to become Nikon authorized, and most independent repair shops don't spend the money.

What Nikon USA stopped doing was selling parts to independent repair shops who are _also_, not Nikon authorized repair centers.

Your theory might still be partly valid, anyway -- I dunno -- but I think it's worth being precise about what Nikon did, or did not, do.

Unfortunately, camera repairs often require more than just replacement parts.

I called APS in the Midwest US asking them if they fixed the D800's left-AF issue.  They said they didn't have the rig to do D800 calibrations, and that there they have no ETA on when they'll ever get one.  And APS used to be an ex-official Nikon service center, too.  It's too bad, b/c I trust these guys way more than LA/Melville, as they have an excellent reputation.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Eamon Hickey
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,100
Like?
Re: Not so different than Canon, I'm afraid
In reply to roustabout66, Apr 1, 2013

Again, I'm not trying to argue with the main thrust of your post, which may be completely sound.

But I think a) it's important to get the facts right in these discussions and b) it's important to apply equal skepticism to what you are being told by any party with an interest in the issue, not just Nikon. Nobody has a monopoly on honesty or fairness -- most of us are naturally sympathetic to small businesspeople, and rightly so, but they are humans, with all the faults common to humans. So:

roustabout66 wrote:

As I understand it Nikon is not accepting any new "authorized" repair shops so if you are not a member of the club already you are not getting in.

I'd be really dubious of this, as presented. I can see only a mild business rationale for Nikon to limit authorizations geographically, and I'd be amazed if the authorizations don't come up for renewal every year and if somebody drops out, or goes bankrupt, Nikon will be looking for other shops to replace them.

I also was told the fee for becoming an authorized shop (if you could get in) is about $100,000

This isn't a "fee". It's a required investment in training and in testing and repair equipment. That equipment is one of the key elements in becoming authorized. It is apparently a big expense (this very web site had an article with comments from a repair shop owner explaining why he declined to spend the money, back when this policy was first made public), but it's not hard to see Nikon's rationale for requiring it. (That doesn't mean I agree with their rationale; just saying it's an easy rationale to see.)

and you are required to carry a mind numbing assortment of parts including Coolpix parts in every color of the rainbow.

Here again, it sounds like you heard some carping from a repair shop owner, and I'd be skeptical. Minimum inventory requirements are as common as dirt in most industries. If you want to sell Patagonia clothes, for example, I'm sure there's a minimum buy in. If you want to be a Ford dealer, there's a minimum inventory requirement.

Again, I don't know the truth here -- it's possible that Nikon is requiring an onerous inventory investment. But I wouldn't take a repair shop owner's word for it (and I've known, and liked, plenty of them) -- I'd want to see what that requirement is myself, and hear Nikon's reasoning for it.

KEH one of the largest used camera sellers in the U.S. said in their blog that Nikon's new policy was why they were no longer a repair shop for Nikon.

KEH said their reason for declining authorization was that Nikon was not allowing stores to be both a service center and an authorized camera dealer at the same time. So they chose to be a Nikon authorized camera dealer.

One last time: I'm not defending Nikon's policy. It may be a terrible idea. In my very extensive experience with Nikon USA, I've seen them do many really stupid things, and this may be one of them. But I also have very extensive experience with camera stores and repair shops, and I know their faults, too. I've found it pays to apply a healthy dose of skepticism across the board.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Joe Tam
Regular MemberPosts: 454Gear list
Like?
Re: Why is Nikon so slow at fixing botched repairs?
In reply to shawnfb, Apr 2, 2013

Please read the original post where it is stated this is the third repair for an original problem that was unrelated to the current problem.  It's been at Nikon now for 74 days total for the original repair as well as problems that happened after it was returned by Nikon Melville.

shawnfb wrote:

i think within 30 days is pretty darn good for Nikon... I am pretty sure they have a couple more fixes, returns, and warranty issues on planet earth.. no?

-- hide signature --

shawn

 Joe Tam's gear list:Joe Tam's gear list
Nikon D4 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH4 Nikon D4s Panasonic Lumix G Vario 100-300mm F4-5.6 OIS +16 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
roustabout66
Regular MemberPosts: 467Gear list
Like?
Re: Not so different than Canon, I'm afraid
In reply to Eamon Hickey, Apr 4, 2013

Eamon Hickey wrote:

Again, I'm not trying to argue with the main thrust of your post, which may be completely sound.

But I think a) it's important to get the facts right in these discussions and b) it's important to apply equal skepticism to what you are being told by any party with an interest in the issue, not just Nikon. Nobody has a monopoly on honesty or fairness -- most of us are naturally sympathetic to small businesspeople, and rightly so, but they are humans, with all the faults common to humans. So:

What "facts" did I get wrong?

roustabout66 wrote:

As I understand it Nikon is not accepting any new "authorized" repair shops so if you are not a member of the club already you are not getting in.

I'd be really dubious of this, as presented. I can see only a mild business rationale for Nikon to limit authorizations geographically, and I'd be amazed if the authorizations don't come up for renewal every year and if somebody drops out, or goes bankrupt, Nikon will be looking for other shops to replace them.

Do you have any evidence that what I was told was incorrect?

I also was told the fee for becoming an authorized shop (if you could get in) is about $100,000

This isn't a "fee". It's a required investment in training and in testing and repair equipment. That equipment is one of the key elements in becoming authorized. It is apparently a big expense (this very web site had an article with comments from a repair shop owner explaining why he declined to spend the money, back when this policy was first made public), but it's not hard to see Nikon's rationale for requiring it. (That doesn't mean I agree with their rationale; just saying it's an easy rationale to see.)

I see, it is not a "fee" but a "required investment" that makes all the difference in the world

Why did my local repair shop not have to have all this training, testing, required investment etc. when he repaired my Nikon equipment before? He has been in the business many years, ordered the parts and fixed my lenses....now he can't. The repairs were done for a reasonable fee and the turn around time was MUCH shorter than when I sent stuff to Nikon. I also see the rationale for Nikon's actions....to funnel more repair revenue to Nikon.

and you are required to carry a mind numbing assortment of parts including Coolpix parts in every color of the rainbow.

Here again, it sounds like you heard some carping from a repair shop owner, and I'd be skeptical. Minimum inventory requirements are as common as dirt in most industries. If you want to sell Patagonia clothes, for example, I'm sure there's a minimum buy in. If you want to be a Ford dealer, there's a minimum inventory requirement.

I think you have requirements for selling and repairing confused. My friend runs an auto repair shop. He does not maintain inventory for all parts for all cars. if you want new brakes on your Ford he orders the parts and does the repair....just like my camera repair shop USED to do.

Again, I don't know the truth here -- it's possible that Nikon is requiring an onerous inventory investment. But I wouldn't take a repair shop owner's word for it (and I've known, and liked, plenty of them) -- I'd want to see what that requirement is myself, and hear Nikon's reasoning for it.

KEH one of the largest used camera sellers in the U.S. said in their blog that Nikon's new policy was why they were no longer a repair shop for Nikon.

KEH said their reason for declining authorization was that Nikon was not allowing stores to be both a service center and an authorized camera dealer at the same time. So they chose to be a Nikon authorized camera dealer.

How is this different than my statement. Nikon's NEW POLICY was why they were no linger a repair shop??? And how utterly stupid is it that they have to chose one or the other? If anyone wants to reward Nikon for this anti-consumer BS by buying new Nikon equipment they should not be surprised when they have to pay thru the nose for repairs.

One last time: I'm not defending Nikon's policy. It may be a terrible idea. In my very extensive experience with Nikon USA, I've seen them do many really stupid things, and this may be one of them. But I also have very extensive experience with camera stores and repair shops, and I know their faults, too. I've found it pays to apply a healthy dose of skepticism across the board.

That's funny, I get the impression that you are trying very hard to defend Nikon's policy by questioning my statements without any evidence to the contrary. If the essence of any of my statements was incorrect (and I do not mean word games like required investment instead of fee) please point them out.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Leonard Shepherd
Veteran MemberPosts: 8,294Gear list
Like?
Re: Sample images can help
In reply to Joe Tam, Apr 5, 2013

Joe Tam wrote:

Basically the camera hunts around the point of focus and then stops.

Autofocus does this if it cannot detect the subject.

What each camera model can and cannot detect does vary.

-- hide signature --

Leonard Shepherd
Many problems turn out to be a lack of intimate knowledge of complex modern camera equipment.

 Leonard Shepherd's gear list:Leonard Shepherd's gear list
Nikon D800 Nikon D7100 Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G IF-ED VR Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 12-24mm f/4G ED-IF Nikon AF-S Nikkor 16-35mm f/4G ED VR +19 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
fad
fad
Forum ProPosts: 11,886Gear list
Like?
Re: Not so different than Canon, I'm afraid
In reply to Joe Tam, Apr 8, 2013

Joe Tam wrote:

What can I do at this point to speed it up?  It's almost 30 days since I had the camera sent in for a redo.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/51093984

It really sucks to deal with a company (Nikon USA) that does not understand its customers and how they use its product.  But if stupidity were a hanging crime, the world would run out of rope.

-- hide signature --

Frank
shot in downtown Manhattan.
http://sidewalkshadows.com/blog/ (street photos)

 fad's gear list:fad's gear list
Canon EOS-1Ds Mark III Nikon D3S Nikon D800 Nikon D4s Nikon AF-S Nikkor 14-24mm f/2.8G ED +5 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads