TG-2 sample shot at ISO 100 and my initial impression

Started Mar 28, 2013 | Discussions
Jefftan
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TG-2 sample shot at ISO 100 and my initial impression
Mar 28, 2013

F2

F2.8

F2

F2.8

F2.8

First day I use this camera. Mix feeling.  First impression is not happy with the IQ.  Of course I am not expecting NEX-5N IQ but can't even compare with LX5

What I found is for wide position F2.8 is sharper than F2

The day that I take the photo is not in good lighting, cloudy but still the IQ is disappointing to me

So basically this is the IQ you can expect in cloudy lighting

Both HDR and handheld starlight is useless at only 3MP

below an example of HDR from scene mode

Any comment welcome

Night time photo is another story will cover in another post

other observation is that although screen is same 3 inch as NEX-5N it feel smaller and there are dark bars at the side .  Screen is OK but nothing exceptional definitely worse than NEX-5N but good enough for waterproof camera

Battery life is exceptional take 174 pics and a short movie, battery indicator still show full battery

Image stabilization is not good. I will talk about that more in  another post about High ISO but don't think of go to single digit in shutter speed, very likelly to blur

what is surprising is that some 1/15 and 1/30 shot also blur . I am still not sure whether that is due to handshake or focus not lock at all in low light . Kind of hard to believe 1/30 shot in 25mm equivalent can have handshake

Focus fast in daytime but not super fast compare to me previous TX5 and TS1.  Nighttime focus is not so fast and I am not even sure if focus is lock at all as said above

The short movie has lots of wind noise with microphone set to "low" recording level.  I don't speak but that wind noise would surely take away all conversation.  Video take at night and IQ not good.  See If I can post it to youtube later

That's all I can think of now.  My impression is that I am not very satisfied with it. Just OK in IQ to me for a waterproof camera

When all at ISO 100 I think IQ is worse than Panasonic TS1 and Sony TX5 2009 and 2010 camera.  Especially compare with 10MP TX5 I think less sharp and less detail capture when both at ISO 100.  This is just my impression as no comparison can be done.  I already lost my TX5 in the sea, sad as that is a very good waterproof camera

Except for the F2 lens no real advancement in 3-4 years

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5 Panasonic Lumix DMC-TS1 (Lumix DMC-FT1) Sony Alpha NEX-5N Sony Cyber-shot DSC-TX5
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Jefftan
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Re: TG-2 sample shot at ISO 100 and my initial impression
In reply to Jefftan, Mar 28, 2013

another observation is to set EV to -0.3 or -0.7 in daytime (for face/iESP metering mode)

there are surely overexposure and sky become white if left unchange even in cloudy sky

should be worse in bright sunlight

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Jefftan
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Re: TG-2 sample shot at ISO 100 and my initial impression
In reply to Jefftan, Mar 28, 2013

This pic at ISO 100 has almost no detail in grass and everything

but again this is in a cloudy day close to dark.  not good lighting condition

how much you guys read into this I hope to hear

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Stefandreas
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Ever looked at samples from new FT5 ?
In reply to Jefftan, Mar 28, 2013

Hi Jefftan,

have a look and get mad:

http://reviews.cnet.co.uk/compact-digital-cameras/panasonic-lumix-dmc-ft5-review-50010564/

All samples look much better than anything I saw from Tg2 or WX3 - depite the fact that the lens is "slower"  ! It seems that Leica lens plus Panasonic experience with OIS and image processing etc (look at the excellent FZ series) really pays off here.

So its not only Pentax and Olympus - FT 5 is to be taken seriously !

Kind regards,

Stefan

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Stefandreas
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Re: Ever looked at samples from new FT5 ?
In reply to Stefandreas, Mar 28, 2013
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scurran4
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Re: Ever looked at samples from new FT5 ?
In reply to Stefandreas, Mar 28, 2013

The FT5 looks really good at low iso, but that picture inside the church is pretty bad, but then again I would never shoot at 3200 iso on a camera like this, I'd be leary of going past 800. I am slightly worried about the ft5 leaking, I would like to take it in while surfing sometimes, and I think the pressure under a wave could succeed 4 times the depth or more.

Jefftans pictures are better than expected, the NR doesnt honestly bother me too much as I expected, good shots to test that too.

Id really like to see a good comparison review, Im tempted by the aw110, ts5 and tg2, and it looks like they all get the job done decent. I cant consider the d20 because it is so ugly to be perfectly honest. I like the idea of throwing this in my pockets when I am travelling and going out to bars and things as well, but maybe I'll have to pick up another cam for that some day, because it doesnt seem that high iso is great on any of these. I usually do black and white for high iso, so I would rather a ton of grain than any NR. Ive been happy using my old sd1000 for this purpose for a long time.

Is there any chance of any of these being hacked? Maybe I'm not supposed to talk about this here.

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Stefandreas
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Re: Ever looked at samples from new FT5 ?
In reply to scurran4, Mar 28, 2013

Come on, this 3200 ISO shot looks much better than expected. 3200 ! Some of my best pictures are made with the Ricoh GX200 and that was unausable above Iso 200. My Sony Alpha 700 DSLR is unusable at ISO 1600, worse than this shot ! Why are people so obsessed with hight Iso ? If you are,  buy a Canon or Nikon DSLR.

In a static shot like that Panas OIS really shines and I'm sure you could do the same shot with Iso 800, handheld. I wouldn't even have the idea to use 3200 with these kind of cams !

What's more important: all the samples up to Iso 400 from this cam look WAY better than the horribly smeared samples of the Pentax and the Oly.  Texture, colours and sharpness - all managed fine by the Pana. I wanted to buy the TG2 ("fast lens", I have an E-Pl1 and E-PM1 so I'm quite an Oly fan-boy), or the Pentax, but in the end its the image quality which counts. Maybe even the Nikon W110 does  better than Oly and Pentax in terms of iumage quality. Both companies do lots of great little cams and I think this experience can be seen here.

Stefan

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scurran4
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Re: Ever looked at samples from new FT5 ?
In reply to Stefandreas, Mar 28, 2013

Stefandreas wrote:

Come on, this 3200 ISO shot looks much better than expected. 3200 ! Some of my best pictures are made with the Ricoh GX200 and that was unausable above Iso 200. My Sony Alpha 700 DSLR is unusable at ISO 1600, worse than this shot ! Why are people so obsessed with hight Iso ? If you are,  buy a Canon or Nikon DSLR.

In a static shot like that Panas OIS really shines and I'm sure you could do the same shot with Iso 800, handheld. I wouldn't even have the idea to use 3200 with these kind of cams !

What's more important: all the samples up to Iso 400 from this cam look WAY better than the horribly smeared samples of the Pentax and the Oly.  Texture, colours and sharpness - all managed fine by the Pana. I wanted to buy the TG2 ("fast lens", I have an E-Pl1 and E-PM1 so I'm quite an Oly fan-boy), or the Pentax, but in the end its the image quality which counts. Maybe even the Nikon W110 does  better than Oly and Pentax in terms of iumage quality. Both companies do lots of great little cams and I think this experience can be seen here.

Stefan

Your right, it is pretty good, especially if your not viewing at 100%. Im just trying to imagine it in the woods. I take a lot of mountain biking photos in the woods when I dont want to carry a dslr or worry about getting a m43 wet. For a moving subject I will have to shoot on the higher iso side.

I'm pretty sure the ts5 is the most balanced of these cameras. Im just used to seeing how amazing the new compacts are at high isos. Its tough to tell though, but I think this 3200 shot is better than the tg-2 at 1600, maybe even 800.

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Stefandreas
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Re: Ever looked at samples from new FT5 ?
In reply to scurran4, Mar 28, 2013

The more I see the more I like the pictures of the FT5:

http://www.goodgearguide.com.au/slideshow/456922/sample_photos_panasonic_lumix_ft5/?image=3

Its the opposite with TG2 and WX3...

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Robert Anderson
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A couple of D20 samples for comparison
In reply to Jefftan, Mar 28, 2013

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Jefftan
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Re: Ever looked at samples from new FT5 ?
In reply to Stefandreas, Mar 28, 2013

Stefandreas wrote:

Hi Jefftan,

have a look and get mad:

http://reviews.cnet.co.uk/compact-digital-cameras/panasonic-lumix-dmc-ft5-review-50010564/

All samples look much better than anything I saw from Tg2 or WX3 - depite the fact that the lens is "slower"  ! It seems that Leica lens plus Panasonic experience with OIS and image processing etc (look at the excellent FZ series) really pays off here.

So its not only Pentax and Olympus - FT 5 is to be taken seriously !

Kind regards,

Stefan

haha not enough for me to get mad.  I have determined to buy only a F2 waterproof camera as I like to take night pics.

Unless Panasonic make a F 2 camera I would not consider

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scurran4
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Re: Ever looked at samples from new FT5 ?
In reply to Stefandreas, Mar 28, 2013

Stefandreas wrote:

The more I see the more I like the pictures of the FT5:

http://www.goodgearguide.com.au/slideshow/456922/sample_photos_panasonic_lumix_ft5/?image=3

Its the opposite with TG2 and WX3...

Yeah, that back light detection looks like it does a good job too.

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Jefftan
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Re: Ever looked at samples from new FT5 ?
In reply to Jefftan, Mar 28, 2013

I have not discuss nighttime high ISO performance which is quite good and with the F2 lens

Panasonic can't compare with the slow lens 1.5 stop slower.  It is mostly a daytime camera which may be OK to many but not to me

To me right now the only question is whether WG-3 is better which I don't know

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scurran4
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Re: Ever looked at samples from new FT5 ?
In reply to Jefftan, Mar 28, 2013

Jefftan wrote:

I have not discuss nighttime high ISO performance which is quite good and with the F2 lens

Panasonic can't compare with the slow lens 1.5 stop slower.  It is mostly a daytime camera which may be OK to many but not to me

To me right now the only question is whether WG-3 is better which I don't know

do you have any photos you could show? I have failed to find many so far.

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Robert Anderson
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Pentax samples
In reply to scurran4, Mar 28, 2013

The only ones i have seen are on the Pentax site and they do not look good to me.

http://www.pentax.jp/english/products/wg-3/ex/

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Stefandreas
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Re: Ever looked at samples from new FT5 ?
In reply to Jefftan, Mar 28, 2013

You want to make nightshots underwater ? Why do you need a tough cam at night? You really think f 2 will produce better night pitures tham a Pans with 3,3 ? Not nrcessarily I can tell you

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scurran4
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Re: Ever looked at samples from new FT5 ?
In reply to Stefandreas, Mar 28, 2013

Stefandreas wrote:

You want to make nightshots underwater ? Why do you need a tough cam at night? You really think f 2 will produce better night pitures tham a Pans with 3,3 ? Not nrcessarily I can tell you

I can see a reason, if you want to use it more as a travel camera, something you can throw into your pocket and not worry about it. If i'm going out drinking for the night or something id prefer not to worry about a camera, but might want one if im somewhere I havent been before.

But yeah, I have trouble understanding how a camera with 1 stop difference will completely be superior in this case. Especially when it appears the ts5 has better high iso performance.

Is the manual mode on the ts5 actually manual?

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Flex M
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Re: TG-2 sample shot at ISO 100 and my initial impression
In reply to Jefftan, Mar 28, 2013

Thanks for the samples! To me it looks like IQ of these lil cams has got worse and worse. The Oly has clean low iso with lots of smearing. The Pentax has lots of noise already at base iso plus a poor lens, maybe with a just lil bit less smearing. What choice??

My circa '06 Pentax W10 (6 mpx) produces better (base iso) IQ than the new model! Also it looks like the WG-3 has the exact same sensor as the WG-2 which is going on close-out pricing now .. again what choice?

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Cane
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Re: TG-2 sample shot at ISO 100 and my initial impression
In reply to Flex M, Mar 28, 2013

Thanks for the samples! To me it looks like IQ of these lil cams has got worse and worse. The Oly has clean low iso with lots of smearing. The Pentax has lots of noise already at base iso plus a poor lens, maybe with a just lil bit less smearing. What choice??

My circa '06 Pentax W10 (6 mpx) produces better (base iso) IQ than the new model! Also it looks like the WG-3 has the exact same sensor as the WG-2 which is going on close-out pricing now .. again what choice?

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It doesn't have the same sensor.

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BorisK1
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Re: TG-2 sample shot at ISO 100 and my initial impression
In reply to Jefftan, Mar 28, 2013

Jefftan wrote:

[...] First day I use this camera. Mix feeling.  First impression is not happy with the IQ.  Of course I am not expecting NEX-5N IQ but can't even compare with LX5

Congratulations on your new camera!

Right from the start: There's no way a tougcham could've approached the IQ of an enthusiast camera like an LX-5.

What I found is for wide position F2.8 is sharper than F2

That actually makes sense.  I ran the numbers in an online calculator:

http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/diffraction-photography.htm

and it says that a camera with a 1/2.3" sensor will only hit diffraction limit at f:4.

The day that I take the photo is not in good lighting, cloudy but still the IQ is disappointing to me

With a milky sky like this, the contrast between the sky and the ground is huge.  The metering decided to sacrifice the sky - a good guess.

Did you have the "shadow adjust" enabled?  I can't tell from EXIF.  It can have an effect on the IQ.

So basically this is the IQ you can expect in cloudy lighting

Both HDR and handheld starlight is useless at only 3MP

below an example of HDR from scene mode

HDR takes multiple shots, then processes them.  I found that TG-1 HDR is very susceptible to camera shake.  The only way I could get it to stay sharp is by bracing my hand against a solid object.  (In TG-1, HDR scene mode works in 5MP. Are you sure it's just 3MP in TG-2? That seems like a step backwards).

Any comment welcome

I'd say, the IQ is similar to that of TG-1.  Which is what I'd expect with the same sensor and same lens.  The fact that you were able to choose an aperture at will, however, is a huge improvement.

[...]

Battery life is exceptional take 174 pics and a short movie, battery indicator still show full battery

I find that the battery life indicator in my TG-1 is somewhat unpredictable, especially if I switch between stills and video and back.  It stays full for a long time, then switches to 2/3, and (especially if you shoot video) almost immediately becomes empty.

Also, when the battery is low, the AF starts to faulter.  Focusing takes longer, and the percentage of keepers goes down.

Image stabilization is not good. I will talk about that more in  another post about High ISO but don't think of go to single digit in shutter speed, very likelly to blur

I have a similar experience with the TG-1 (and with TS-1). I think that has to do with the size and shape of the camera.  Just because it's so small and light, it's a harder to hold steady - and it also gives your muscles a hint "I'm a small solid thing, no need to pay attention how you hold me".  I found that I have to pay attention to proper handholding in order to avoid smearing.

what is surprising is that some 1/15 and 1/30 shot also blur . I am still not sure whether that is due to handshake or focus not lock at all in low light . Kind of hard to believe 1/30 shot in 25mm equivalent can have handshake

The 1/shutter speed rule is for SLRs.  Smaller body, different rules.  Try disabling IS and see how much harder it becomes to get sharp shots.

Focus fast in daytime but not super fast compare to me previous TX5 and TS1.  Nighttime focus is not so fast and I am not even sure if focus is lock at all as said above

Yes, AFAIK it will take a shot even if it couldn't lock focus.

The short movie has lots of wind noise with microphone set to "low" recording level.  I don't speak but that wind noise would surely take away all conversation.  Video take at night and IQ not good.  See If I can post it to youtube later

Did you have the "wind noise reduction" enabled?  Also, did you hear the fast click-click-clicking noise from the camera's AF (one of my main problems with TG-1)?

That's all I can think of now.  My impression is that I am not very satisfied with it. Just OK in IQ to me for a waterproof camera

When all at ISO 100 I think IQ is worse than Panasonic TS1 and Sony TX5 2009 and 2010 camera.

Last year, I took the TG-1 on a wilderness trip with me, with my old TS-1 as a backup.  By the end of the trip (fifth day) the TG-1's battery went dead, so I switched to the TS-1.  It was overcast and fairly dark (we were paddling through a fairly narrow canyon with lots of dark foliage).  The TS-1's shots were horrible.  Blown out sky, lots of motion smearing, digital noise, etc.  My point is - don't compare the best you've gotten from the TS-1 against the first attempts with the TG-2.  The TG-2 is very capable, but it takes time to learn its limitations.

Especially compare with 10MP TX5 I think less sharp and less detail capture when both at ISO 100.  This is just my impression as no comparison can be done.  I already lost my TX5 in the sea, sad as that is a very good waterproof camera

Except for the F2 lens no real advancement in 3-4 years

Well - that is the killer feature.  The camera is basically no different from its f:3.9 bretheren, except you can get the same results in a (much) wider variety of light.

Boris

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